when it rains...

September 20, 2006 11:42 AM

How much money should I loan a very good friend of mine in a tough situation? I feel lost as to what I should do. (extended facts in the extended)

A very good friend of mine has had things go horribly wrong for her in the past couple weeks. Fiance broke up with her, lost her job, car had a boot put on it...

- She does not have enough money ($851) to pay to get the boot taken off. It was apparently put on because of outstanding tickets from a prior roommate who used the car, but my friend never knew of the tickets.
- Her parents are already loaning her money to cover her bills.
- I am in school, but work weekends. I've been working and saving up money for something. Without getting too specific, it's something that would make me a very happy person for a long time, I've been looking forward to it for a long time, etc. etc. but it is not a necessity.
- The money I have saved would cover the boot bill.
- I don't know when I would be payed back, but probably not for a long while.
- She lives in another state, needs a car to get a job, and the likelihood of getting the city to waive $851 in tickets is nil.

So how much should I loan my bestest friend? I have the money and want to help her, but am struggling with my own... selfishness. Do I offer to pay part of it and hope the rest of our mutual friends pick up the rest? What are my obligations?

Or just a discussion.... I feel more than a little lost. Any thoughts to help me help her are appreciated ahead of when they are posted.

posted by whatitis to human relations (33 comments total)

A) You have no obligation. Any loan would be from your own generosity.
B) Loan only what you would feel comfortable NEVER getting back. And by comfortable, the amount that wouldn't make you resentful, even a tiny bit, if your friend never repaid.
posted by ferociouskitty at 11:47 AM on September 20, 2006 [2 favorites]

Obligations? This is not a job. There is no book that says, "You have been friends X long, and like each other Y much, and therefore must loan Z dollars." So no, there are no obligations.

Would it be a nice thing to do? Yes.

So, how much should you lend? Exactly as much as you can give understanding that you may never get your money back. Because she may not be able to, and to have the friendship end/go awkward/etc. over money is very lame. If it's less than she needs, so be it.

If you can't loan freely, don't loan. Does that make you a bad friend? Well, it makes you worse than those others that are also able to help, and choose to help.

Life is about choices. Help or don't help. If help were easy and costless, she wouldn't need yours, she'd be able to get it from any random joe on the street.

On preview, what ferociouskitty said.
posted by kingjoeshmoe at 11:49 AM on September 20, 2006

Give her whatever money you're comfortable with (which could very reasonbly be nothing), and don't expect to have it paid back.

She might, of course, pay it back, and that would be a nice bonus surprise.
posted by oliver at 11:49 AM on September 20, 2006

If she is truly your best friend and you don't want to lose her, you should not loan her anything. You should give her as much as you feel comfortable giving and never expect to see a dime of it back. She should know that you feel that way and that you're not just saying that. If, someday in the future, she is flush and decides to give you a similar gift, that's great. If not, no harm done. You should then endeavor to forget it entirely and never mention it again.

This probably still won't work and the shadow of the money will certainly loom over your friendship, but the only way to even have a chance of avoiding that is to make it a genuine, sincere gift and not a loan.

I speak from sad experience. And on preview what everyone else said.
posted by The Bellman at 11:50 AM on September 20, 2006 [1 favorite]

you're not obligated to do anything. it's your choice to be generous and helpful. if this person is your bestest friend, i'm sure they would really appreciate the help and you could trust that you would see the money again someday. imagine if the situation was reversed. that said, don't offer more money that you're comfortable loaning and living without.
posted by gnutron at 11:52 AM on September 20, 2006

Kingjoeshmoe is right on. Loaning money to family and friends should only be done if you don't care about seeing the money again. Do it with the expectation that it's a gift. (Don't phrase it that way, and don't act that way, but understand that this is the case.)

Many people would say to never loan money to a friend. I won't go that far. But do be sure that you're prepared mentally, and that if you don't get the money back it's not going to destroy the friendship.

It's certainly a kind and generous thing to do.
posted by jdroth at 11:53 AM on September 20, 2006

From what you wrote I think you'll feel best if you loan her the whole amount needed to get going. But you could wait a day or two to see if anyone else will help out (can you yourself ask other friends of hers to help?) Depending on your friend you can think of the loan as money in the bank, with your happiness deferred, or as a gift which may or may not come back to make you happy some distant day.

In a similar situation I loaned a good friend a largish sum, with expectation of eventual repayment but without certainty. The friend has used the loan mindfully (remaking their life in the process) and is beginning to repay, but I really thought I'd seen the last of the money for a while.

Warning though: the obligation incurred by the loan recipient can have a negative effect on a friendship, so you could save your friend but lose your friendship. It all comes down to what they're like and what you're like, and only you know that.
posted by anadem at 11:54 AM on September 20, 2006

It doesn't really sound like you are in a position to loan her any money. If you were, then you wouldn't be asking here, you would have already loaned it. You should not feel obliged to loan/give money to your friends. You should provide support in whatever way you are capable. At the moment that might be talking to her every night, helping to research how to deal with those tickets, editing her resume or helping look for job listings.
posted by sulaine at 11:56 AM on September 20, 2006

Seconding the Bellman. Make it clear that its a gift. It will feel so much better than loaning the money, and if this person is truly as close a friend as she sounds, she will endeavor to pay you back.

And even if you never see a cent of it, if you can truly give up something so selflessly, and still love her the same way you do now, as your friend, it will do wonders for you.

More than anything you could buy with money, ironically.
posted by allkindsoftime at 11:56 AM on September 20, 2006

First, without knowing anything about the parking ticket situation, I wouldn't assume that the chance of getting some kind of settlement is nil until I'd explored that option with a lawyer (the ones who do that are not expensive).

More importantly: If this is your best friend, and she needs you, you should lend her as much money as you comfortably can afford to do, even if it means a deferral of you obtaining the unnamed non-necessary item you're saving for.

You should also not expect to see the money again, not because your friend will not repay you, but because you do NOT want to play the part of money collector to your best friend. Think of the money as gone, as a gift. However much money you can afford to give as a gift is how much you should lend.

Would she do the same for you if she could?
posted by kosem at 11:57 AM on September 20, 2006

Consider referring her to Modest Needs to get the boot off and small claims court to get the money back from the roommate.

Consider also not believing that someone ran up $851 worth of parking tickets on her car and the city never once sent her a notification directly.
posted by jacquilynne at 12:01 PM on September 20, 2006 [1 favorite]

I was in a similar situation last month with a good friend who accrued some debts. I knew she wouldn't be able to pay back a loan for a long time, and that she wouldn't want to accept a gift, so I invited her over and pretended it was her (very early) birthday and gave her a cupcake and a check that was less than the debt but an amount I felt comfortable parting with. When she tried to refuse, I just repeated, "But it's your birthday!" until she gave in. Worked for me and made it easier for her to take.
posted by rmless at 12:06 PM on September 20, 2006

Sulaine is right. Loans and friends don't mix. And frankly it doesn't sound like you've got the cash to make that kind of gift. If you hurt yourself in trying to help a friend, chances are you're going to associate the friend with the pain in the future & it will hurt your friendship.
posted by facetious at 12:15 PM on September 20, 2006

The borrower is slave to the lender. Loaning the money *will* change the nature of your friendship. She will feel guilty when around you and may well start avoiding you.

Give her what you can fit into your budget. If a few friends give her a little she'll have what she needs. Maybe you could call the friends you two have in common and pass the hat for her.

Sometimes the best gift is empathy, and only empathy. Call her often and ask how she's doing. Let her know you care. But be sure she will learn something from this if she has to solve the problem herself. Tough times make one stronger.
posted by kc0dxh at 12:52 PM on September 20, 2006

If you can afford to give her the money, and feel so inclined, then just give it to her.

If you can't, don't.

And definitely don't loan the money. Loans are poison. Just give it, and be pleasantly surprised if she ever chooses to pay you back... or don't do anything at all.
posted by Tacos Are Pretty Great at 12:56 PM on September 20, 2006

(and don't feel bad if you choose not to do anything at all, financially. It's a perfectly valid option, and one you'll often have to take as you get older.)
posted by Tacos Are Pretty Great at 12:58 PM on September 20, 2006

Give as much money as you can afford to lose.
Expect to never see it again.
posted by mitocan at 12:58 PM on September 20, 2006

I agree with Sulaine -- it honestly doesn't sound like you can afford to give her the money and if she's a good friend, she shouldn't be expecting you to help her out anyway. Tell her you're sorry, you wish you could help, take her out to dinner, a movie, or for a drink since she definitely can't afford any of that. But please don't feel obligated to help her -- you might end up putting yourself in a sticky financial situation and that would not be good.

Also - if it was her old roommate who accrued the parking tickets, why can't she get in touch with said old roommate and make HER pay for the boot since it's clearly her fault?
posted by echo0720 at 12:58 PM on September 20, 2006

I like what Bellman said.

I was in a similar situation (different bills, but similar situation) last October with my best friend of 20 years (I'm 27, so that's pretty much my whole life). I lent her about the same amount of money that you're looking at, and she promised that I'd have it back "within a couple months." I told her that she should pay me back when she has the money. Over the summer, she offered to pay me back $100 at a time. I said no because I figure if she can't afford to pay me back all at once, then she probably needs the $100 a pop more than I do right now (plus, its easy to lose tract of it that way).

Anyway, 11 months later, I still don't have the money, but due to changes in her situation/job, I believe I'll see it by the end of the year (she's told me next month, I'm hoping by 12/31).

I'm an unemployed student living off loans and savings, so lending money to my friend probably wasn't the smartest thing to do. But I was fine without it, and now if I get it back by December, I'll have something to buy holiday gifts with. Since I lent it to her so long ago, I don't miss it, and I'm looking at it as a bit of a bonus. And if she isn't able to pay me back until 2015, no big deal.

Basically, my point is what a lot of other people's points have been - you have to be ok without the money to be ok in giving it to her.

Anyway, the point of telling you this it to let you know that even if your friend has the best intentions on paying you back, it probably won't happen in the time frame that they say. Which is why I like the gift idea. If you can afford to give it away, give it to your friend, then when/if you get it back, it'll be a nice little bonus.

Also, this - the likelihood of getting the city to waive $851 in tickets is nil - raises a red flag for me. Why can't she take a day to go into the city and explain her case to a judge? At the very least, she should be able to get it reduced. If she's that far away, there has to be something she can do. And the fact that she got no late notices or bills in the mail about the parking tickets is shady too - I got a parking ticket once here in nyc, and it must have blown off the windshield or something, because about six weeks later, a bill (with a $10 late fee) showed up in the mail at my parent's house where my car was registered (I hadn't yet made the trip to ny dmv to register my plates, so suspicious me thinks I got the ticket because I had out-of-state plates, haha).
posted by AlisonM at 12:59 PM on September 20, 2006

It isn't clear to me that she has asked you to lend her money or asked for a specific amount. I agree with the others. My rule of thumb is to half whatever I am asked to lend and tell them it is a gift. That way, I only lose half of what I may have otherwise. You'll both be better off. You will cut your losses and your friend will have some much needed cash and the knowledge that you are still a great friend.

If no number was discussed, ask her how much she expects. For one, it may surprise you at the amount-- both high or low. You'll learn a lot about how she thinks about money and you as a friend.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 1:57 PM on September 20, 2006

Her life is in serious disarray right now. She isn't able to support her basic expenses without help from the folks. A major relationship has been lost, apparently not by her choice. She feels betrayed by a roommate. And she must be pretty severely disorganized to have missed all those notices from the city, or to have failed to provide DMV with a current address.

You want to be a good friend, but are focusing on only one way to demonstrate the depth of your friendship. If you feel able to give her a financial gift, that's a kind and very generous thing to do. But even if you do that, will it get back her behind the wheel of her car? Will she be able to keep it fueled/insured, when she's already so strapped? Let's say your gift even accomplishes that; would getting back her car have a significant effect on the chaos? Or is there something else you could do that might help her more in the long run?

It sounds like simple moral support (including generous doses of hugging), along with help literally getting her shit back together might be the greater gift here. Getting handouts from friends and family just fosters dependence and resentment. She'll be a lot happier, and wiser, when she can resolve this stuff on her own terms. Maybe you can show her how to get there. After all, you've managed to build a nest egg even while going to school; no small feat.
posted by nakedcodemonkey at 1:59 PM on September 20, 2006

We've given two friends non-trivial sums of money to help them out of bad situations. We were clear with them that the money was a gift, not a loan. I think the friendships are at least as good today as they were before the gifts were made.

Some people seem to be suggesting that you should offer money as a loan, but have the expectation that you'll never see it. I think this is a terrible idea. The friend still feels a sense of obligation, and if they don't feel they can satisfy that obligation, it'll put a strain on the friendship. You are left with the opportunity to wonder about your friend's character if they don't make an effort to pay back the loan.

As to how much to offer: That's really for you to decide. I think you should pick a number that you are comfortable with. It could be $10, or it could be everything you have. You should find a number that you are comfortable with.

Aside from money, you might suggest that she consult a legal clinic or something about the parking ticket obligation At the very least, it might be possible to work out a payment plan. Or, if you want, you could go further and research her options on your own and present her with a clear plan of action she can take.
posted by Good Brain at 2:01 PM on September 20, 2006

echo and alisonm raise very good concerns: make sure that your friend is making a significant effort to resolve the situation. (trying to make the old roommate pay, go into town to explain, ...). The point is to avoid a situation where you are solving her problem solely.
Because if that's the case it will certainly destroy the friendship or leave you with a bitter taste.

Just to point a different aspect to the other side that says 'be prepared to give and not receive back'.

Another point: You shouldn't "struggle with your selfishness "as you say. Apparently 850$ is too much; you don't feel comfortable with it. Listen to that feeling too. Find out what you do want to offer, if any.
posted by jouke at 2:07 PM on September 20, 2006

As someone who never pays his parking tickets here, my instinct is that your friend is as much of a deadbeat as me. The old "I let friends borrow it, Dad!" is a classic.
posted by M.C. Lo-Carb! at 2:22 PM on September 20, 2006

Like everyone else said: never loan money to friends. Only give. If you're not comfortable giving it, don't.
posted by fishfucker at 2:47 PM on September 20, 2006

I was that friend once. Don't loan her money. It WILL change both of you, it will make you or her or both feel awful, and even if she does pay it back, if she's in this kind of mess, it'll take a long time.

Instead - offer to help with minimal expenses that will make her life better. Gift cards for grocery stores, or gas stations. If she has a very inexpensive hobby that helps keep her on an even emotional keel, help with that (I've paid for a few friends WOW accounts for that. 15 dollars a month is not a lot to make the difference between a friend who has no leisure activites, and a friend who has one that gives them something to do to unwind) - Offer to take her out to dinner once in a while, or just take her out to dinner and refuse to let her pay or whatever you need to do.

Mostly - Remind her that you're there for her as emotional support. If you need to do it in tangible ways, do so.

Just don't drop a thousand dollars in a friend's lap. Not for this.
posted by FritoKAL at 4:11 PM on September 20, 2006

Thoughts as you requested:

Sounds as if one or two hundred dollars (if that's what you want to do) would be an extremely generous gift in your circumstances. If you remain friends over the years, she'll probably "repay" the gift.

I don't agree with those who are saying you should make a loan without expectation of repayment. A loan means that you expect and are entitled to repayment. I don't know if I could stay friends with someone with failed to honor that obligation -- and that's one reason why lending to friends is generally a bad idea.

But if you believe this friend will repay you, no matter how long it takes, and you want to lend her something, here's another thought, which may also solve some of FritoKAL's issue: Would you do a business deal with this friend in another context? Suppose you were selling her your old car and she wanted to pay over time. Wouldn't it be perfectly appropriate to ask her to sign a note for that "loan"? Would that "make you or her or both feel awful"? If not, maybe same thing here. You could ask to see the traffic bill for which the funds will be used (she can fax it to you) and ask her to sign a promissory note (Google for a promissory note form) legally obligating her to repay you. A loan that, for you, represents a lot of money, is a business transaction. Maybe you'd both feel more comfortable treating it that way.

I'd want to know whether her parents can lend her all or most of the money but she's embarrassed to ask.
posted by Dave 9 at 4:26 PM on September 20, 2006

Neither a borrower nor a lender be; / For loan oft loseth both itself and friend.

Shakespeare
posted by trii at 4:34 PM on September 20, 2006

Money talks, but all mine ever says is goodbye. Your's might well do the same, as well as your friendship.
posted by JamesMessick at 6:32 PM on September 20, 2006 [1 favorite]

If you give the money as a gift, you have to ask yourself if you really believe it's a gift or if you hope it will be repaid. If you hope it will be repaid even a smidgen, it's not really a gift and may cause trouble for you.

I think you should offer to help your friend restructure her finances and mail. It seems those are the real issues. How do you miss $850 in parking notices, along with the reminders?
posted by acoutu at 10:44 PM on September 20, 2006

I wouldn't loan or give her any money. She should ask her parents for that $851. Or else use their money to pay the $851 in tickets and pay her other bills late.
posted by dgeiser13 at 4:30 AM on September 21, 2006

If you can't afford a loan, can you buy stuff of value from her, to sell on ebay or craigslist. She may be too overwhelmed with her current crises to do that herself. You often can't rescue your friends, or get them to do what they should. It's good to care and try to help, but it's also good to figure out what your boundaries are, and to respect those boundaries.
posted by theora55 at 9:07 PM on September 21, 2006

Theora55, what are you smokin'? If she can't get it together to pay her bills do you think she's going to run a profitable eBay business?
posted by JamesMessick at 7:36 PM on September 25, 2006