Comments on: Good career for lover of oral argument?

Question: Good career for lover of oral argument?

shivohum — Wed, 20 Sep 2006 10:24:21 -0800

I love arguing with people -- orally walking them through their premises, disputing their conclusions, bringing up cool new analogies and information, and learning and teaching in the process. I want to do this all day long and get paid for it. Career recommendations?

I'm in law school, but I'm not going to restrict myself to careers requiring a JD (though they're a plus).

I love the speed and adrenaline and friendly competition of a good argument... I don't want a job where I have to prepare 98% of the time and argue 2%. I want a job where I get to argue almost all of the time.

Ideas?

By: Iridic

Iridic — Wed, 20 Sep 2006 10:25:44 -0800

Lobbyist?

By: the cuban

the cuban — Wed, 20 Sep 2006 10:30:21 -0800

talk radio host?

By: JohnnyGunn

JohnnyGunn — Wed, 20 Sep 2006 10:32:34 -0800

My gut reaction was to say marry my wife, but on second thought, how about political writer or TV panelist like on the McGlaughlin Report.

I respect a man who doesn't want to prepare for his arguments, he just wants to fire at will.

By: Mr. Gunn

Mr. Gunn — Wed, 20 Sep 2006 10:44:09 -0800

There are many, many jobs available with Fox News.

By: MrMoonPie

MrMoonPie — Wed, 20 Sep 2006 10:51:46 -0800

Many English programs have rhetoric concentrations, and a large part of a (good) Freshman English course is argumentation.

By: leapingsheep

leapingsheep — Wed, 20 Sep 2006 10:51:59 -0800

I wonder if you could start a new(?) kind of service: belief therapist. People who want to make sure their beliefs are internally consistent could come to you and have you try mercilessly to tear them to shreds. I think a lot of people would be interested, but you'd have to do some smart advertising because who would think of looking for such a service, having never before heard of it?

By: dmt

dmt — Wed, 20 Sep 2006 11:00:08 -0800

Endless rehashing the Argument Clinic sketch in Monthy Python?

Iridic: trust me, lobbying is most assuredly not like that. It is the epitome of 95% preparation 5% presentation.

Come over here (England) and work as a barrister? They're advocacy specialists who don't do the client relationship work that lawyers in the States do?

More seriously though, you could do a lot worse than teaching if debate is your passion. And you'll always win those arguments you like so much!

By: ewkpates

ewkpates — Wed, 20 Sep 2006 11:16:05 -0800

There aren't any internally consistent belief systems. Sorry to shoot that one down.

Politician is an option. So is sales. But I sense that it is the fight that is enjoyed, not the analysis of arguments.

Fox News it is.

By: cowbellemoo

cowbellemoo — Wed, 20 Sep 2006 11:18:38 -0800

Anything low-maintenance enough to let you argue with friends all day in gmail. hee!

By: matildaben

matildaben — Wed, 20 Sep 2006 11:21:02 -0800

Philosophy professor.

By: jmd82

jmd82 — Wed, 20 Sep 2006 11:23:01 -0800

Philosophy professor in college? Depending on how strict you dean is, you can tailor your classes to exactly what you want. I took 2 classes in college were all we did was literally argue- one being an intro to ethics course where the teacher presented a few primary tenant of an ethical system and we all went apeshit. Looking back, I don't think the professor actually did anything in that class. The second (and much better) was a class about environmental awareness- Each night, we read a piece of literature on a certain aspect of the environment. Two students led a class discussion where they came up with topics pertaining to the material we read and we just talked about certain issues all class-period long. The professor was there to guide us back to the main topic when we went off-topic and to offer us a different perspective on ideas we came up with (much like your describe yourself doing).

Point is, you might be able to land a teaching job where the class consists primarily of students and teachers alike discussing certain topic, be it ethics, religion, the environment, or whatever.

By: lbergstr

lbergstr — Wed, 20 Sep 2006 11:31:22 -0800

You could get some sort of facilitation role. For example, there are management consultants who spend most of their time doing live meeting facilitation for clients. In a facilitator's role you are supposed to be neutral, and certainly not argumentative, but there's usually a lot of push and pull with the client team just to keep everyone within the (consensus) guidelines and on task. A good facilitator can push a group's thinking further than it otherwise would have gone.

By: leapingsheep

leapingsheep — Wed, 20 Sep 2006 11:42:19 -0800

If you're right, ewkpates, the job would be even easier.

By: Luddite

Luddite — Wed, 20 Sep 2006 11:45:23 -0800

I'd have thought if you have no preparation time then, in the absence of disputing facts, you'll be wanting to dissect your opponent's argument, or re-use their facts against them. Sounds to me you want to be an opposition politician or journalist (of the charismatic, combative school.)

By: Good Brain

Good Brain — Wed, 20 Sep 2006 11:50:11 -0800

Bartender?

By: allkindsoftime

allkindsoftime — Wed, 20 Sep 2006 11:58:57 -0800

I can't believe no one's said "lawyer" yet.

By: wuzandfuzz

wuzandfuzz — Wed, 20 Sep 2006 12:07:15 -0800

Actually, not lawyer, but law professor.

By: Gungho

Gungho — Wed, 20 Sep 2006 12:59:16 -0800

Negotiator. Wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Getting_to_YES

there are several mediator and negotiator type jobs available in the legal system.

By: LobsterMitten

LobsterMitten — Wed, 20 Sep 2006 13:08:15 -0800

Teach debate to high school or college students?

Philosophy professor is indeed like this, except a lot of the work is research (which is analyzing arguments, but in writing) rather than teaching. And you nearly always would need a philosophy PhD to do it, which is another 5 years of school minimum. I'm guessing you will owe money from your law degree so need a job to start paying. But you could see if your program offers a joint PhD/JD if you're still in the middle of the program and could get funding. Otherwise you could look into teaching at a private high school or a community college.

There are already belief/philosophical consultants, esp in NYC. Probably can be found on the web; I don't have time to do the search for you right now.

By: acoutu

acoutu — Wed, 20 Sep 2006 13:25:15 -0800

You could do this as a consultant in most industries. You wouldn't be a yes man -- you'd be an expert who points out the problems with various situations. Diplomatically, of course.

By: mynameismandab

mynameismandab — Wed, 20 Sep 2006 14:03:58 -0800

Lawyer of course!

By: MattD

MattD — Wed, 20 Sep 2006 14:08:48 -0800

Sell-side securities analyst -- what you love doing is what I spend half my working time doing. (The other half I spend doing the research and writing that enables me to argue persuasively.)

By: TrashyRambo

TrashyRambo — Wed, 20 Sep 2006 14:11:23 -0800

Diplomat.

Imam / priest / rabbi. Especially if you can be a Jesuit.

Irish. Doing anything.

By: treepour

treepour — Wed, 20 Sep 2006 14:17:59 -0800

Philosophical counseling? It was a buzzword many years ago, not sure if it's still around.

By: Vindaloo

Vindaloo — Wed, 20 Sep 2006 15:00:46 -0800

I can think of a few: Bar patron, Sports fan, Cab driver, etc.

Seriously though, since you're a lawyer, anything having to do with negotiations might fit the bill. Also, defense lawyers and prosecutors argue a lot as part of their daily tasks, tax lawyers not so much.

But I suspect that you would prefer the arguments to be wide-ranging and diverse, and so I would propose a career as a teacher of some sorts. Humanities, Law, Philosophy; all of them include heavy arguing/discussion in many topics.

By: palmcorder_yajna

palmcorder_yajna — Wed, 20 Sep 2006 17:37:23 -0800

Wuzandfuz has it right. You want to be a law professor. As a law professor, your days will be spent (1) teaching, and teaching people to argue; (2) Writing persuasive essays; and (3) sitting on committees that are composed entirely of people who like to argue. You will never want for controversy.

Lawyering does involve a substantial amount of arguing, but the lion's share of the work is, in fact, preparation, which is exactly what you don't want. Also, you may find that argument is less fun when the stakes are another person's business, family, liberty, or livelihood. (Then again, that might make it more fun. . . .)

The thing about being a law professor is that, unless you happen upon some really unique and necessary specialty field, you're probably going to need to go to a top-10 law school, and to be in the top 10% of your class. It's by no means easy, but it might be something you'd really enjoy. Good luck.

By: ontic

ontic — Wed, 20 Sep 2006 18:58:53 -0800

Teaching philosophy is a good suggestion. What you want to do is basically what I do on a day to day basis. But you won't get to do as much in person if you take a research angle as you would with a teaching angle.

By: paulsc

paulsc — Thu, 21 Sep 2006 00:33:26 -0800

If you don't mind a low average level of opponent, you could become a criminal interrogator. Or, work for the intelligence community in similar capacities.

I doubt you'd be a good negotiator, if arguement is your game. Successful negotiators do argue, but in a special way which builds consensus, and allows the adversary to contribute positively; everyone wins and no one loses a successful negotiation. Likewise, politics is not a field where the fine art of arguement is key; public debates in an election forum may be time honored tradition, but they are rarely pivotal, except for the televised variety in Presidential races.

Acting might be a possibility, in that you can pick your roles, to spend much of your time passionately arguing, with some of the best words in the language. The recasting, each performance, of a playwright's arguements, so they are made fresh and newly passionate, is not so much an exercise in repetition, as it is in discovery and ardor for a craft.

By: Wilder

Wilder — Thu, 21 Sep 2006 04:26:47 -0800

Oi! Trashy Rambo! I really want to call you out on that Irish crack, (being one) but on reading the posters question I find I can't muster my usual scintillating arguments, cos, ....well.... shucks, you're probabaly right!
So I'll just say this...
Pog mo Shon agus faigh bas ar son Eireann!

Last word with the Irish as usual!