Janie's got a gun! How do I disarm her?

August 25, 2006 9:35 AM

If someone's pointing a gun at you, and they look away for a moment, what's the most effective way to disarm them?

Which would work better to knock the gun loose: hitting them on the back of the hand, or hitting them from beneath the gun? Is there a better way to knock the gun free? I'm not planning on being held hostage any time soon, I'm just curious.

posted by bjork24 to grab bag (24 comments total)

How about "run away"?
posted by jozxyqk at 9:42 AM on August 25, 2006

I would think both would get you shot, since they probably don't have that loose of a grip and their reaction to getting hit would be to pull the trigger.

Honestly, I don't know what would be effective, maybe batting their arm to the side (while grabbing the wrist to control the gun) and punching them in the nose? It is definitely one of those situations where if you can run, you should.
posted by Loto at 9:42 AM on August 25, 2006

This is a quick disarm that will eject a gun 6 feet or more away from the attacker. You also get a photo of two spotty lads trying it.
posted by ed\26h at 9:49 AM on August 25, 2006

If the scenario you're describing is a mugging, my plan in this situation is just to run.

I live in NYC and I'm counting on the fact that almost anyone who has an illegal firearm has not had many opportunities to test-fire/ calibrate the weapon, or practice marksmanship. Also, guns with short barrels are notoriously less accurate even when aimed. Take into consideration that the shooter is most like excited, unstable, or on drugs, and I'm betting that if I bolt and flee in a zig-zag pattern, the chances that he/she could actually hit me aren't very great.

In MO I would imagine that there is a broader range of firearms available, as well as people who actually know how to use them, so YMMV.

To answer your question though, I would say that whether you knock their hand up or down you could still end up with a bullet in your body, though perhaps higher or lower than they meant to put it. You are narrower than you are tall (a guess) so it makes more sense to hit the hand or the gun from the side-- even managing to tilt it a few degrees means they'll miss you if it fires.

It's important to hit them from the outside, too-- the outer side of the arm they're aiming with. If you strike them on the inner side, their free arm can grab you. Strike on the outer and you force their free arm away from you and you can push them off balance.
posted by hermitosis at 9:49 AM on August 25, 2006

Maybe this?
posted by zabuni at 9:50 AM on August 25, 2006 [1 favorite]

Assuming the gun is in their right hand, grab their right wrist with your right hand, and spin into their body. Whip your left elbow into their face, and now use the gun to shoot their accomplices. Grab the idol, and get out of the temple as fast as you can.
posted by Rock Steady at 9:51 AM on August 25, 2006 [13 favorites]

If you're pretty limber, a hard kick under the chin would probably shake the person up enough that you could grab the gun or run...
posted by kdern at 9:51 AM on August 25, 2006

i'd say grab the barrel of the gun and twist upwards.
This accomplishes four things.
-points the barrel away from you
-forces their index finger off of the trigger
-twists gun out of their hand...
-...and into yours

Of course, this prolly only works in the movies.
posted by jak68 at 9:55 AM on August 25, 2006

Say the person is holding the gun with their right hand with the arm extended towards you...
with your right hand, hit the gun to the left, while simultaneously hitting their elbow to the right with your left hand. You need to do it HARD. Attempt to break their arm or at least hyperextend the elbow. If you do it hard enough, their grip on the gun will definitely loosen.

Running away will not disarm them (which is what you asked to do in the first place) and will most likely just get you shot in the back.

Why do you ask? Plan to move to Baltimore soon?
posted by nineRED at 10:25 AM on August 25, 2006

I don't think there's a cop, soldier or security expert in the world that will tell you to try to disarm anyone. And if they do, they're the gung-ho types that aren't being realistic.

Run. Drop whatever you're carrying. Hunch your shoulders up high. Put your hands up around the back of your head. Move around a lot, making lots of quick cuts. Get behind cover (even a tree will help). Turn corners around objects abd buildings, but don't run into blind alleys. Keep running. Scream bloody murder, but scream actual words (help, fire, look out, he's got a gun, it's gonna blow). Keep running.
posted by frogan at 10:47 AM on August 25, 2006

objects AND buildings
posted by frogan at 10:47 AM on August 25, 2006

Step forward, and use your left forearm to strike the inside of their right wrist ("sand-a floor" motion from Karate Kid). As you push their wrist and arm outside and down (the gun is pointing to the outside of your left side at this point), bring your right forearm up from down low, striking his right elbow hard and smashing through. (Snapshot: you now have his right arm fully extended, with your left forearm in front of his wrist and right forearm behind his elbow.)

If you hit the elbow even moderately strongly with this motion, you break his arm between your two forearms. Nobody shoots anybody with a broken arm.

My *advice* is to run away.
posted by jellicle at 10:51 AM on August 25, 2006

I just last month had a friend who was held up at gunpoint outside of a local bar, he gave the gunman his wallet and phone, but when the guy put the gun back into his pants, my friend swung and hit him square on the nose. The gunman went down and my friend began to beat the shat out of him on the sidewalk. Unknown to him, the gunman had an accomplice waiting in a nearby car. The accomplice came running and kicked my friend as hard as he could in the face. He shattered most of the bones in his face and is now faced with mounting medical bills for corrective surgery. Is a wallet and phone worth that?

But honestly, I would have beat the shat out of him as well, so what do I know??
posted by keep it tight at 11:16 AM on August 25, 2006

If you're over five yards away and you start running with some direction flail the chances of being hit by someone who doesn't practice often is low. Guns are designed to be held and it seems that it would be hard to dislodge a grip. The best option, is of course, to have your own gun. Remember, you can find yourself a bullet resistant vest on eBay if this is a normal occurrence, add a plate if they like knives in your neighborhood. Stay safe.
posted by sled at 11:20 AM on August 25, 2006

I was a juror in a murder trial where a drug dealer shot another dealer over a turf dispute. The victim started running and zig-zagging when the other guy pulled his gun out, and the guy shot him from about 3/4 of the way across a wide street (Market Street in San Francisco).

The victim was a big guy, and the bullet that killed him was really small. It was really strange to hold something in my hand that had killed a person.
posted by kirkaracha at 11:43 AM on August 25, 2006

twist gun up and towards the thumb (move your head away from the line of the gun), same with breaking the grip of someone holding your wrist.

But Xth the run away part if it is likely you will be shot.
posted by edgeways at 11:52 AM on August 25, 2006

Run? Nah, if you are going to try anything other than submitting, then you want to deflect the gun away from you, preferably inward toward their body. So if it is in their right, pull it to your right and vice versa for their left. I would not push it up. If it went off, you could get shot in the head. Most people are stronger at pulling in than pushing out, so I would think your odds are better if you pulled the gun in towards his/her body. Running would be the sure way to get shot, even if you are as fast as Carl Lewis.
posted by JJ86 at 12:07 PM on August 25, 2006

"i'd say grab the barrel of the gun and twist upwards.
This accomplishes four things.
-points the barrel away from you
-forces their index finger off of the trigger
-twists gun out of their hand...
-...and into yours

Of course, this prolly only works in the movies."

No, it works in real life, and it has the added bonus of breaking the assailant's finger, assuming the weapon has a fully enclosed trigger guard.

This is exactly the reason that (some, not all) rubber practice guns for martial arts training have cut out guards, foam guards, or no trigger guards at all. It's not nice to get your finger broken when the gun you're holding isn't real and the guy who's disarming you is just practicing.

But yeah, if you haven't trained in doing this, and probably even if you have, just get the hell out of there.
posted by SlyBevel at 3:51 PM on August 25, 2006

Slap his gun away to the side and lunge towards him, driving the top of your skull into his chin as hard as you can. A punch (or any type of jarring impact) to the chin is the surest and easiest way to ring a guy's bell. It's boxing offence 101.

But keep moving forward - you want him off his feet. Trip him up and tackle him down to the ground, but always moving forward until he's on his back. Hopefully your skull hard to the chin and the back of his skull smacking the pavement will put him out of commish.
posted by rinkjustice at 4:55 PM on August 25, 2006

I would tell you not to try anything.

But here's what I did in that situation.

As soon as he looked to the right, I slammed my arm into his wrist, pushing the gun to the side. He instantly pulled the trigger, and the gun went off into the air. At the same time, I popped him in the nose with the palm of my hand - hard. This caused him to drop his head and bend over a bit, and I then brought my knee up as hard as I could into his nose again - this propelled him up again.

Then I hit him two quick jabs to the stomach, and he fell backwards, firing the gun again into the air, and then dropped it, using both hands to grab at his face.

There was blood everywhere. This all took about 2 seconds.

And then I ran down the road screaming like a woman. It was a stupid thing to do - I could have been killed. But I wasn't.
posted by bradth27 at 7:53 PM on August 25, 2006

vRun. Drop whatever you're carrying.

My *advice* is to run away.

Which is fine if you are able to "exit the kill zone". If you are in a confined space or a space with no exit then you need a strategy.

Similar to what others have said, the technique I am familiar with is grabbing the gun and forcing it towards the body of the perpetrator while at the same time pointing it away from yourself.

The theory is that anyone pointing a gun at you will instinctively think you are attempting to take it away from them when you grab it, but by moving the gun towards the gun holder you have a chance of wresting it away from them (though attempting to wrest it away from the gun holder presents another set of issues separate from disabling the gun holder).
posted by MLIS at 7:56 PM on August 25, 2006

Supposedly, if you grab a semi-automatic pistol such that you can prevent the slide from racking, and then cause the pistol to fire (not towards you, of course), the assailant will now have a pistol that must be racked (with two hands) again in order to be fired. So, if you are the type of individual who can beat the shit out of someone so effectively that they cannot rack another round into the chamber, you go ahead and do that.

To the people who suggested running, I urge you to reconsider. There's no way you could get more than about fifty feet away before the shooter knew you were running away, and hitting a person-sized object at 50 feet is not that difficult, especially if the guy has 6-15 tries at it. You are going to get shot.
posted by popechunk at 8:31 PM on August 25, 2006

Running is really the best idea, if you struggle for the gun, he has a reason to shoot you, even if he never intended to in the first place. Everytime you double the distance from him, you make it at least twice as hard for him to hit you. And what does he gain from shooting you at a distance? (unless he was trying to kill you, not rob you).
But on the question, you can grab the slide of a semi-auto and shove towards him (and to the side so the gun is not pointing toward you); once the slide goes just slightly back (out of battery) the trigger will no longer pull. Shoving it toward him also shoves the trigger away from his finger.
If the gun has an exposed hammer that is cocked back, you can grab the gun so that some part of your hand blocks hammer if the trigger is pulled ( a finger or web of your hand. If the hammer is not cocked back, you can grab so that the hammer can not move. Obviously this doesn't apply to an internal striker gun like a glock. If you can multi-task, it would be helpful to knee him in the groin, or if you deflect the gun with one hand gouge an eye with the other.
posted by 445supermag at 9:33 AM on August 26, 2006

I've taken several years of PPCT training, and they teach three scenerios for this that I have practiced with. I am not an instructor however.

Each instructor I've had did mention that this is, in most cases, a stupid thing to do. However, if you firmly believe you will be dead, you have nothing to lose and once you decide to do it, you should commit one hundred percent. Mentally you should prepare yourself, that is very important, going through your training over in your mind. The slightest mistake or hesitation is going to get you shot.

But once again, as stressed to me in training, in a real life situation, you wouldn't want to do this unless you were in a corner and knew the guy was going to shoot you because it just never works like the movies. The one and only good thing going for you here is usually they aren't expecting a fight back, and then of course if you've practiced this a hundred times and do it perfectly.

I'll try my best to give one example of a training scenerio but it is hard to describe in just words without showing you (I'm right handed so reverse if you are a lefty). Scenerio one was if the individual with the gun was pointing it at you straight on chest level. When he is distracted for even a second step straight to the right sideways. Both your feet should still face forwards, its a big step to the right to gain momentum and get away from the barrel. At the same time using your open right hand palm hit the gun hand of the enemy so that his gun moves away from the way you stepped and where your body was. (In some cases in class, if they were not holding the gun tightly, this simple move would knock it out of their hand.)

If they didn't lose it there though, from your new angle the gun is sideways to you. You can see the gun's side. This last hit was very hard but your hand should still be out near the gun. PPCT teaches hit and stick, meaning you don't bounce when you do hits. You hit hard and stay there.

Next, using your right open hand near the gun, grab the top of the gun and at the same time bring up your left hand and grab the bottom of the gun wrapping your hands, which should be tightly together, kind of like a catcher mitt around the gun. If you are holding the gun correctly, it shouldn't be able to go off. A revolver hammer for instance shouldn't be able to move back.

Having a firm grasp, bring it closer to your body (close is taught as strong for leverage in PPCT for an important reason, it is...and the techniques don't work if someone is fighting back unless you are close). At this point, as the gun is closer to you and with the barrel facing left you should twist the gun towards the enemy using your entire body in the twist. If done quickly, this seems like one fluid motion and the jerking makes the other person off balance. The gun should go clockwise toward them and always point away from you. This twists the gun out of their hand completely. In class, when done properly, no one playing the criminal was able to keep the practice guns in their hand(s). And it hurts like hell trying to hold on as it twists. With real guns instead of our hard plastic ones, there would have been a lot of broken fingers if they were on the triggers.

At this point, you should bring the gun to your right and let go with your right hand. With your left still in place holding the gun, swing the butt of the gun back towards them, slamming it into their lower neck (there is a main nerve point there) as hard as humanly possible and step away fast now holding the gun.

That's the short version at least. The other two scenerios in quick mention were if the gun was in your back. Basically the same as above but involving a quick turn around and slap that is really hard to describe. The other was if the gun was at your head and you were below it which actually was similar to what jak68 mentioned above where you twist the gun upward.

All this PPCT talk is making my body hurt thinking about it, so I'll stop for now...
posted by rfbjames at 10:43 AM on August 27, 2006