How do two grad students make a long distance relationship work?
August 11, 2006 9:15 AM Subscribe
Me: fifth year of graduate school, the midwest. Her: third year of graduate school, west coast. Us: now entering our seventh year of dating and fifth consecutive year not living in the same city. Help!
My girlfriend and I met in college, and we've had a wonderful relationship ever since. But when we graduated, both of us wanted to go to graduate schools in different fields (me in computers, her in engineering), and we ended up going to schools in different cities. For a while, both of us were in schools in the Midwest about two hundred miles apart, which wasn't ideal but meant we could spend most weekends together. But then tragedy struck --- her advisor got bought up by another school out in the LA area, and due to the particular situation she was in she didn't have any reasonable academic choice other than to follow him out there (she'd otherwise be stranded at a school where nobody else studied what she studies at all). She moved out there a few months ago. Being long-distance like this is really really draining. We've already decided that we'll get married as soon as we live in the same city at the same time, but at this point it's not clear when that will be.
At this point the plan is for me to get my PhD in this coming school year and then move out to California. But I'm really worried about this plan, for two reasons: (1) I think I can finish my degree in that time, but I can't guarantee it; and (2) when I move out to California, I'm not sure I'll be able to get an academic job, particularly since she'll finish her PhD a couple years later and we'll both want to move again (neither of us is fond of LA, sorry). And it's a common scare-story among academics that if you ever leave the academy it's very difficult to get back in, so I'm uneasy about the prospect of just dropping out of the school scene while I'm out there. Getting a post-doc out there might work, but it's hardly a sure thing that I'll be able to find one in anything even vaguely approaching my academic area in the right geographical location.
On the other hand, I don't really see what other options I have. Five years living in different cities is too much, and I'm not sure how much more of it either of us can take. I'm willing to make a sacrifice for my relationship, but I'm not even sure how to do that intelligently. For instance, I could always drop out of grad school and move out there right now, but that seems like a giant waste considering how close I am to my PhD and how much more employable I am with a PhD than without. I can drop out of academia too, but my PhD is pretty much only good as preparation to do research --- I'm honestly not any more trained to do a regular programming job than I was the day I graduated college, maybe less because I'm too into frou-frou academic programming now. Maybe that's what I have to do, I don't know. (For the record, she is much less interested in becoming a professor than I; she wants to work in a research lab but more as a research assistant than as a principal investigator.) The only thing I do know is that it's absolutely not acceptable for us to end our relationship, but that the walls appear to be closing in now and every passing day makes the situation seem less tractable.
So, my questions. First, does anyone have any experience with a similar situation? Has anyone found a good way out of it? Any words of advice to help me keep my relationship? Anything at all?
A few other pieces of information you might find useful: 1. I've talked to my advisor, he seems slightly sympathetic but basically useless, as in he's got no advice and doesn't really think I ought to make any academic sacrifices for anything ever. 2. I am a boy. I realize that I haven't mentioned that yet and it might be relevant. :) 3. We're trying to see each other as much as possible this year, but it's expensive. We've got three trips planned so far, one for me to go out there and two for her to come here. 4. I've set up a throwaway email account longdistanceproblems@gmail.com if you want to ask me followup questions.
My girlfriend and I met in college, and we've had a wonderful relationship ever since. But when we graduated, both of us wanted to go to graduate schools in different fields (me in computers, her in engineering), and we ended up going to schools in different cities. For a while, both of us were in schools in the Midwest about two hundred miles apart, which wasn't ideal but meant we could spend most weekends together. But then tragedy struck --- her advisor got bought up by another school out in the LA area, and due to the particular situation she was in she didn't have any reasonable academic choice other than to follow him out there (she'd otherwise be stranded at a school where nobody else studied what she studies at all). She moved out there a few months ago. Being long-distance like this is really really draining. We've already decided that we'll get married as soon as we live in the same city at the same time, but at this point it's not clear when that will be.
At this point the plan is for me to get my PhD in this coming school year and then move out to California. But I'm really worried about this plan, for two reasons: (1) I think I can finish my degree in that time, but I can't guarantee it; and (2) when I move out to California, I'm not sure I'll be able to get an academic job, particularly since she'll finish her PhD a couple years later and we'll both want to move again (neither of us is fond of LA, sorry). And it's a common scare-story among academics that if you ever leave the academy it's very difficult to get back in, so I'm uneasy about the prospect of just dropping out of the school scene while I'm out there. Getting a post-doc out there might work, but it's hardly a sure thing that I'll be able to find one in anything even vaguely approaching my academic area in the right geographical location.
On the other hand, I don't really see what other options I have. Five years living in different cities is too much, and I'm not sure how much more of it either of us can take. I'm willing to make a sacrifice for my relationship, but I'm not even sure how to do that intelligently. For instance, I could always drop out of grad school and move out there right now, but that seems like a giant waste considering how close I am to my PhD and how much more employable I am with a PhD than without. I can drop out of academia too, but my PhD is pretty much only good as preparation to do research --- I'm honestly not any more trained to do a regular programming job than I was the day I graduated college, maybe less because I'm too into frou-frou academic programming now. Maybe that's what I have to do, I don't know. (For the record, she is much less interested in becoming a professor than I; she wants to work in a research lab but more as a research assistant than as a principal investigator.) The only thing I do know is that it's absolutely not acceptable for us to end our relationship, but that the walls appear to be closing in now and every passing day makes the situation seem less tractable.
So, my questions. First, does anyone have any experience with a similar situation? Has anyone found a good way out of it? Any words of advice to help me keep my relationship? Anything at all?
A few other pieces of information you might find useful: 1. I've talked to my advisor, he seems slightly sympathetic but basically useless, as in he's got no advice and doesn't really think I ought to make any academic sacrifices for anything ever. 2. I am a boy. I realize that I haven't mentioned that yet and it might be relevant. :) 3. We're trying to see each other as much as possible this year, but it's expensive. We've got three trips planned so far, one for me to go out there and two for her to come here. 4. I've set up a throwaway email account longdistanceproblems@gmail.com if you want to ask me followup questions.
It sounds to me as though you have more practical options than she does at this point. It also sounds as though you realize this, and are willing to be the one to make the primary sacrifices to secure the health of the relationship. This is a good step.
I am not an expert in academia, nor in the LA job market. What I do have a bit of experience in is being the one in an LDR who has to make the move, and make some sacrifices, in order to help things work out.
From that perspective, I can tell you what your biggest enemy probably is: fear of the unknown. You're looking at moving to a city you don't like for at least several years, and possibly upsetting your job prospects. This is, understandably, a frightening and possibly upsetting prospect.
However, you must consider this: it is entirely possible to be broke, not working in your chosen field, and generally a bit off the lead pace, and not be miserable -- especially if you are doing it with someone you dearly love.
Perhaps a little exercise will help you make your decision more clear. Assume the worst happens. You move our to LA. You fucking hate it. You have real trouble getting into academia. You end up under-utilized in a dead-end programing job while you wait for something better to come up, or for your SO to get her degree so you can go somewhere more mutually accomodating.
Could you live like that, knowing you were doing it to be with the person you love most in this world?
This is mostly speculation, but I also think that your negativity about LA -- which is something I completely understand and agree with -- may be effecting your ability to predict your career sucess out there. It's a huge city, near some of the biggest universities in the country. There's *bound* to be something there for someone with a PhD in a research field to do, no?
But, really: if you two are that devoted, and that happy together, and you think it could totally work in the long run... run, don't walk, at the opportunity to make it happen. Get your PhD. You're right that it would be silly to give that up. After 7 years, I know 1 more sounds unbearable, but you can manage it. Talk to your advisors, and figure out what you can do to *assure* that you can get done in one year. Then *do* it. Work your ass off and get it done, then get to LA, suck it up, and love being with the person you love.
Fortune favors the bold. It's out there. Reach out and grab it.
posted by jammer at 9:40 AM on August 11, 2006 [1 favorite]
I am not an expert in academia, nor in the LA job market. What I do have a bit of experience in is being the one in an LDR who has to make the move, and make some sacrifices, in order to help things work out.
From that perspective, I can tell you what your biggest enemy probably is: fear of the unknown. You're looking at moving to a city you don't like for at least several years, and possibly upsetting your job prospects. This is, understandably, a frightening and possibly upsetting prospect.
However, you must consider this: it is entirely possible to be broke, not working in your chosen field, and generally a bit off the lead pace, and not be miserable -- especially if you are doing it with someone you dearly love.
Perhaps a little exercise will help you make your decision more clear. Assume the worst happens. You move our to LA. You fucking hate it. You have real trouble getting into academia. You end up under-utilized in a dead-end programing job while you wait for something better to come up, or for your SO to get her degree so you can go somewhere more mutually accomodating.
Could you live like that, knowing you were doing it to be with the person you love most in this world?
This is mostly speculation, but I also think that your negativity about LA -- which is something I completely understand and agree with -- may be effecting your ability to predict your career sucess out there. It's a huge city, near some of the biggest universities in the country. There's *bound* to be something there for someone with a PhD in a research field to do, no?
But, really: if you two are that devoted, and that happy together, and you think it could totally work in the long run... run, don't walk, at the opportunity to make it happen. Get your PhD. You're right that it would be silly to give that up. After 7 years, I know 1 more sounds unbearable, but you can manage it. Talk to your advisors, and figure out what you can do to *assure* that you can get done in one year. Then *do* it. Work your ass off and get it done, then get to LA, suck it up, and love being with the person you love.
Fortune favors the bold. It's out there. Reach out and grab it.
posted by jammer at 9:40 AM on August 11, 2006 [1 favorite]
This comes up so often with academics that it has a names--we call it "the two body problem." At least you both sound fairly employable! When two English PhDs fall in love, one of them is going to end up working at Starbucks.
Finish you degree as quick as you can and move to L.A. Beyond that, if you are going to make this work, one of you had better be ready to make some huge sacrifices. Talk about it, openly and often, and make sure you are both OK with that. And good luck.
posted by LarryC at 10:15 AM on August 11, 2006
Finish you degree as quick as you can and move to L.A. Beyond that, if you are going to make this work, one of you had better be ready to make some huge sacrifices. Talk about it, openly and often, and make sure you are both OK with that. And good luck.
posted by LarryC at 10:15 AM on August 11, 2006
One item re: employers. When one of you goes out on the job market, if the school loves you and is desperate for you to work for them, many of them do make exceptional efforts to find/make a job for the partner. I wouldn't put in my Starbucks application just yet.
posted by catesbie at 10:21 AM on August 11, 2006
posted by catesbie at 10:21 AM on August 11, 2006
Who's career path is going to be most important? In this situation someone is going to have to make a sacrifice. If you have a PhD in computers, I don't know why you would be pursuing academic work unless you have a perfect position guaranteed.
posted by JJ86 at 11:14 AM on August 11, 2006
posted by JJ86 at 11:14 AM on August 11, 2006
One thing jumped out at me: "she wants to work in a research lab but more as a research assistant than as a principal investigator". Why does she need a Ph.D. for this? I'm not in engineering, but my experience in academia is that research assistants have a master's degree at most. In fact, a Ph.D. might be a hindrance to getting an RA job (she's overqualified).
If she really want to be an RA, she might be better off getting an "exit master's" instead of finishing her Ph.D. That opens up the possibility of her moving back to the midwest to be with you in a few months to a year.
Again, I don't know how it works in engineering, but I'd suggest you seriously discuss her career plans with her and consider whether a Ph.D. is really the best way to go. (I have a Ph.D. myself and it's amazing how many jobs you can't get with a doctorate. You're qualified for a handful of excellent jobs, but overqualified for the vast majority of decent jobs.)
posted by Quietgal at 11:18 AM on August 11, 2006
If she really want to be an RA, she might be better off getting an "exit master's" instead of finishing her Ph.D. That opens up the possibility of her moving back to the midwest to be with you in a few months to a year.
Again, I don't know how it works in engineering, but I'd suggest you seriously discuss her career plans with her and consider whether a Ph.D. is really the best way to go. (I have a Ph.D. myself and it's amazing how many jobs you can't get with a doctorate. You're qualified for a handful of excellent jobs, but overqualified for the vast majority of decent jobs.)
posted by Quietgal at 11:18 AM on August 11, 2006
Does anyone have a guess why this in anonymonus? Anon, seems like you could post this with no fear of repurcussion, and in fact I suggest that you respond to the questions in the thread for further discussion.
Why can't you get a job in academia on the west coast? Or better yet, why can't you get a job in computers in LA?
posted by Four Flavors at 11:48 AM on August 11, 2006
Why can't you get a job in academia on the west coast? Or better yet, why can't you get a job in computers in LA?
posted by Four Flavors at 11:48 AM on August 11, 2006
Sorry, I have to agree with jammer - suck it up, get it done, and move on.
Long-distance relationships suck, but they're not uncommon. I'm a two-body problem survivor, as are several of my friends and you just have to stick it out and figure out what compromises you can live with. For now, it sounds like your best option is work your ass off to finish your project. I know you miss your significant other, and distance puts a strain on the relationship, but if your relationship is strong enough that you're planning to be together forever, you can survive missing each other for one more year. If it was me, I'd complete anything that required me to be on campus, move to LA, and write my thesis there. I'd spend my travel money on going *back* to my school 2-3 times to meet with advisors/committee and defend.
Also, have you actually tried looking for postdocs yet? California is a mecca for computer science academics! I suspect it will be easier than you think, and it's a reasonable way to fill a short gap like 1-2 years. Besides not only do you have UCLA, UC Irvine, USC and Caltech as possibilities, I'm fairly certain that you could work something out with Santa Barbara or San Diego. And several labs at Stanford and Berkeley allow for offsite postdoc projects, where you'd just have to visit the bay area a few times a month. So I find it hard to believe that you won't be able to find something that you find at least tangentially interesting.
posted by synapse at 12:04 PM on August 11, 2006
Long-distance relationships suck, but they're not uncommon. I'm a two-body problem survivor, as are several of my friends and you just have to stick it out and figure out what compromises you can live with. For now, it sounds like your best option is work your ass off to finish your project. I know you miss your significant other, and distance puts a strain on the relationship, but if your relationship is strong enough that you're planning to be together forever, you can survive missing each other for one more year. If it was me, I'd complete anything that required me to be on campus, move to LA, and write my thesis there. I'd spend my travel money on going *back* to my school 2-3 times to meet with advisors/committee and defend.
Also, have you actually tried looking for postdocs yet? California is a mecca for computer science academics! I suspect it will be easier than you think, and it's a reasonable way to fill a short gap like 1-2 years. Besides not only do you have UCLA, UC Irvine, USC and Caltech as possibilities, I'm fairly certain that you could work something out with Santa Barbara or San Diego. And several labs at Stanford and Berkeley allow for offsite postdoc projects, where you'd just have to visit the bay area a few times a month. So I find it hard to believe that you won't be able to find something that you find at least tangentially interesting.
posted by synapse at 12:04 PM on August 11, 2006
I'll echo synapse, and say that from what I've observed many academics do postdocs somewhere before proceeding into an academic position somewhere. You can do that to bridge the gap, gain experience, and be with your SO at the same time.
Also, it may or may not be helpful, but you should also check out Science's ScienceCareers site on the "two-body problem"
posted by scalespace at 1:04 PM on August 11, 2006
Also, it may or may not be helpful, but you should also check out Science's ScienceCareers site on the "two-body problem"
posted by scalespace at 1:04 PM on August 11, 2006
Ack! Whatever you do don't drop out five years in!!
I totally get the "if you leave academics you'll never get back in" pressure since my SO is feeling it now too (he's also on a postdoc search). I can't imagine that CA schools wouldn't have postdocs in computers. Even if you aren't in LA, you'd still be closer than you are now. And the "few years and then we're gone" thing is totally fine and normal for postdocs, no one will fault you for that.
What does your girlfriend think about the situation? Have you told her your new plan? She may be really set on the original plan that you move out in a year or so and she might not be keen on you dropping out.
FWIW, I'm in a similar setup though my SO and I are significantly closer distance-wise (see each other every weekend). It does get to the point where you want to rip your hair out because you just want to be in the same city. But you've made it five years apart. It's just one more. Otherwise you may really regret it and it has the potential to impact you as a couple, since it could affect where you get a job, your earning potential, etc.
It sounds like the relationship is solid and you're both willing to put in the effort to keep things running smoothly. Finish out the degree. You can do it.
posted by ml98tu at 1:45 PM on August 11, 2006
I totally get the "if you leave academics you'll never get back in" pressure since my SO is feeling it now too (he's also on a postdoc search). I can't imagine that CA schools wouldn't have postdocs in computers. Even if you aren't in LA, you'd still be closer than you are now. And the "few years and then we're gone" thing is totally fine and normal for postdocs, no one will fault you for that.
What does your girlfriend think about the situation? Have you told her your new plan? She may be really set on the original plan that you move out in a year or so and she might not be keen on you dropping out.
FWIW, I'm in a similar setup though my SO and I are significantly closer distance-wise (see each other every weekend). It does get to the point where you want to rip your hair out because you just want to be in the same city. But you've made it five years apart. It's just one more. Otherwise you may really regret it and it has the potential to impact you as a couple, since it could affect where you get a job, your earning potential, etc.
It sounds like the relationship is solid and you're both willing to put in the effort to keep things running smoothly. Finish out the degree. You can do it.
posted by ml98tu at 1:45 PM on August 11, 2006
Another option besides becoming a post-doc is becoming a "visiting" or "assistant" professor at a college in LA. These positions generally only last a few (one or two) years, and many professors don't reapply (or aren't invited to reapply) for a permanent position at the end of their contract. I'm pretty familiar with computer science programs in the LA area (I got my engineering bachelors there) - my contact info is in my profile if you'd like some help locating well-respected colleges/universities.
For the record, she is much less interested in becoming a professor than I; she wants to work in a research lab but more as a research assistant than as a principal investigator.
!!!!
posted by muddgirl at 5:03 PM on August 11, 2006
For the record, she is much less interested in becoming a professor than I; she wants to work in a research lab but more as a research assistant than as a principal investigator.
!!!!
posted by muddgirl at 5:03 PM on August 11, 2006
If you're planning to get married, then don't give up something important so you can rush to be together. If you know you'll be with her for the long term, then wouldn't you rather be long-distance for one extra year than to be together sooner but without the qualification you wanted?
posted by twirlypen at 5:08 PM on August 11, 2006
posted by twirlypen at 5:08 PM on August 11, 2006
This thread is closed to new comments.
I realize you can't respond directly, but I assume if you're in your last year of your program, you're working on your dissertation by now. As far as your advisor seeing your progress, why can't the glory of e-mail be put to good use in a situation like this?
posted by catesbie at 9:39 AM on August 11, 2006