Name This City
August 4, 2006 6:44 PM Subscribe
In a letter from the 1870's, the writer refers to "Mr. Allen Dale's City" with a population of about 30,000. He was writing from Texas, but he was originally from South Carolina. Does anyone know to what he was referring?
Second a request for more information of the context of the letter. Perhaps what City in Texas or SC, the writer's name, Was it a formal or personal letter, etc.
There appears to be a ranch, part of which was known as "Allen Dale" around Harrisburg, TX (now Metro Houston area) at this time. This was owned by a Mr. Allen. In IshmaelGraves census link above, even Houston does not have a population of 30,000 at this time, but Harris County might have. The wording seems a bit odd.
posted by Yorrick at 9:17 PM on August 4, 2006
There appears to be a ranch, part of which was known as "Allen Dale" around Harrisburg, TX (now Metro Houston area) at this time. This was owned by a Mr. Allen. In IshmaelGraves census link above, even Houston does not have a population of 30,000 at this time, but Harris County might have. The wording seems a bit odd.
posted by Yorrick at 9:17 PM on August 4, 2006
If you aren't already aware of it, The Handbook of Texas Online is a great resource for anything involving Texas history.
Here's a snippet about the ranch that Yorrick mentioned:
"In 1917 Mrs. Allen began the dissolution of the Allen Ranch, which continued until her death in 1931. She was assisted by her grandson, Robert Cummins Stuart, who helped her subdivide Allen Dale, Allen Farms, and Lum Terrace. Through those and other subdivisions many streets in Houston bear names connected with the Allen Ranch."
I also second the request for more information.
posted by Ø at 9:58 PM on August 4, 2006
Here's a snippet about the ranch that Yorrick mentioned:
"In 1917 Mrs. Allen began the dissolution of the Allen Ranch, which continued until her death in 1931. She was assisted by her grandson, Robert Cummins Stuart, who helped her subdivide Allen Dale, Allen Farms, and Lum Terrace. Through those and other subdivisions many streets in Houston bear names connected with the Allen Ranch."
I also second the request for more information.
posted by Ø at 9:58 PM on August 4, 2006
Sheer speculation: Might it be a joke about a ranch with that many head of cattle?
posted by brianogilvie at 7:21 AM on August 5, 2006
posted by brianogilvie at 7:21 AM on August 5, 2006
Response by poster: I'll find the letter - it was a personal letter from one family member in Ripley, Texas to another in Missouri. It wasn't a reference to a family member. They traveled all around the US, from Philadelphia to Virginia to Missouri to Alabma to Nevada to Montana to California, so it could be anywhere.
They referred to Mr. Allen Dale's City as though it were a commonly known name to all of them.
It is possible that it was a place in metro Houston. They had cattle, and they drove them to market from north-eastern Texas to the rail lines. They definitely went to Dallas, so I thought it might have something to do with that.
They came from Abbeville & Charleston, S.C. in the 1820's
These people did not have a sense of the funny at all, so I don't think it was meant humorously. The Allen Ranch is a possiblity. These were Texas Republic settlers who had been in Texas since at least 1841 - possibly 1836. They had large holdings themselves, and had seen the place grow from a Republic with a small number of people to a burgeoning state.
I'll find the part of the letter & post it - but it may take me a while.
I appreciate all of the info & leads. Thank you. And no, I wasn't aware of the Handbook of Texas Online - that's a great resource. Thanks!!
posted by clarkstonian at 9:05 AM on August 5, 2006
They referred to Mr. Allen Dale's City as though it were a commonly known name to all of them.
It is possible that it was a place in metro Houston. They had cattle, and they drove them to market from north-eastern Texas to the rail lines. They definitely went to Dallas, so I thought it might have something to do with that.
They came from Abbeville & Charleston, S.C. in the 1820's
These people did not have a sense of the funny at all, so I don't think it was meant humorously. The Allen Ranch is a possiblity. These were Texas Republic settlers who had been in Texas since at least 1841 - possibly 1836. They had large holdings themselves, and had seen the place grow from a Republic with a small number of people to a burgeoning state.
I'll find the part of the letter & post it - but it may take me a while.
I appreciate all of the info & leads. Thank you. And no, I wasn't aware of the Handbook of Texas Online - that's a great resource. Thanks!!
posted by clarkstonian at 9:05 AM on August 5, 2006
Based purely on the population number given and the geographic possibilities it would have to be Savannah, GA. No other city in the south was in the vicinity of 30k in 1870 and certainly nothing between New Orleans and the Pacific.
posted by m@ at 9:45 AM on August 5, 2006
posted by m@ at 9:45 AM on August 5, 2006
Response by poster: It could be Savannah.
It could also be that they didn't view cities the same way m@'s source does. For example, Detroit has fewer than a million inhabitants, but metro-detroit has more than 7 mil. Which is it? Well, it depends.
Or that 30,000 was a nice, round number for a big city.
While these were literate people, there weren't many libraries around in that part of the country in those days. What was their source of information?
I honestly don't know. I was hoping there was some knowable answer that I was just missing. I can inquire further of the library nearest the Allen Dale ranch, since the name is right, and then check the other possibities.
posted by clarkstonian at 5:21 PM on August 5, 2006
It could also be that they didn't view cities the same way m@'s source does. For example, Detroit has fewer than a million inhabitants, but metro-detroit has more than 7 mil. Which is it? Well, it depends.
Or that 30,000 was a nice, round number for a big city.
While these were literate people, there weren't many libraries around in that part of the country in those days. What was their source of information?
I honestly don't know. I was hoping there was some knowable answer that I was just missing. I can inquire further of the library nearest the Allen Dale ranch, since the name is right, and then check the other possibities.
posted by clarkstonian at 5:21 PM on August 5, 2006
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There is also an Allendale, SC, but it had nowhere near 30,000 people in 1870. Could you post some context from the letter?
posted by IshmaelGraves at 8:17 PM on August 4, 2006