Does Pandora get any smarter?

August 2, 2006 1:10 PM

Does Pandora get any smarter?

I've been using Pandora (actually Pandora-fm, to cross-pollinate my last.fm reccomendations) for a while now, but it hasn't gotten all that much smarter. It plays the same songs often (I don't want to click 'Don't play this for 30 days,' because they're good songs) and doesn't completely catch the vibe of the music that I want to listen to.

Realizing that no service is perfect, is there a way to make Pandora smarter? I can try adding more artists, but I am stingy with who I add (I love Imogen Heap but don't love electronica, so I don't add her). Should I be more liberal with telling them which songs I like and which I don't?

posted by sjuhawk31 to media & arts (10 comments total)

I would be more liberal: add Imogen Heap and if Pandora palys an electronica song you don't like, tell it that. No, Pandora doesn't get any smarter. The only exception is they do occasionally add new bands, but I don't think that counts.
posted by Maia at 1:13 PM on August 2, 2006

Perhaps I'd be better served creating multiple stations, so that the Music Genome project doesn't start mashing together my genres...one for Matt Nathanson, David Mead, Brendan Benson, John Mayer, Steve Burns; one for Imogen Heap, her other band Frou Frou; and so on...
posted by sjuhawk31 at 1:19 PM on August 2, 2006

I think these things work better if you don't second-guess them too much -- instead of only adding artists that you think will give you the results you want, just add everyone you like. Then you rate the songs you do and don't like, and the thing learns. That's the idea.
posted by reklaw at 1:26 PM on August 2, 2006

On Pandora's blog they offer suggestions if you don't like the variety you're getting.

I've been using it since October, and I find that they tweak the algorithm a lot. For example, right now they seem to be heavily favoring the band that started the station. I expect that'll get fixed soon.

They're also good about listening to suggestions, if you want to drop them an e-mail.
posted by Sibrax at 1:51 PM on August 2, 2006

I find that adding less works better - and that it is better for some genre's than others.

Also, I have better luck choosing specific songs I like than artists, particular with an artist that either has a wide range of styles or that shares stylistic elements with other musicians who I hate.
posted by serazin at 1:52 PM on August 2, 2006

my experience jibes with serazin. The Pandora algorithm works on a song by song level. I think, however, that while you can describe the characteristics of a song as much as you want, it is still very difficult to match the essence of a song. Additionally, if you like a lot of stuff that is very unique I think Pandora has trouble finding exact matches -- it will play stuff that has one or two of the characteristics of your song, which could mean a wildly different experience.

Personally, I have had the best luck with putting together 80s butt-rock channels, although I exhausted their supply in a day or so. After using it for a month or so, I wasnt able to login on their server anymore and so I gave it up.
posted by fishfucker at 2:06 PM on August 2, 2006

From Pandora's FAQ:

* "Thumbs Up" makes that song and songs that sound like that song play more often
* "Thumbs Down" bans that song from that station, and makes songs that sound like that song play less often
* Adding a song with "Add more music to a station" expands a station
* Adding an artist with "Add more music to a station" expands a station a lot

So to get the best results, add one artist or song, then pare out the garbage. The more you add, the broader Pandora's scope.
posted by Terminal Verbosity at 2:20 PM on August 2, 2006

I had a similar question about Pandora, which I sent to their support team. This answer came back by return of post:

Thanks for your interest in Pandora and for your suggestions!

There are a number variables that come into play when selecting the next
song: the characteristics of the artist you entered as the station seed,
the type of feedback you've given on the songs (thumbs up thumbs down),
and any additional artists/songs you've added to the station. Pandora
lumps all this together and tries to determine what the best musical
match is based on our musical analysis. The music analysis for each
song includes checking the music for several hundred different traits.
(we can't list all of those on your player, obviously! :)

I agree that it would be nice to have more control over the playlists.
In our initial test versions, it was possible to select specific musical
traits to focus on (such as electric guitar, female vocals, minor key
tonality). However, we were finding that the test users were getting
confused by this functionality, believing it was used for statistics for
record companies. Now that it seem a lot more people "get" what Pandora
is all about, we are looking for ways to reintroduce these more advanced
features without cluttering the UI.

Several things to try to improve your stations:
-Entering a song to create a station is often better than entering an
artist. This is because sometimes artists have broad repertoires. This
can lead to some eclectic results.
-Enter more than one artist/song into the station. This will add more
appropriate songs to the playlist. Add songs that are the style you
want, and the station will change in that direction.
-Give feedback: thumbs up songs that do fit in the station, and thumbs
down songs that don't.
Look here (http://blog.pandora.com/faq/index.html#88) for more info on
creating and tuning Pandora stations.

Hope all that helps!

Lucia Willow
Listener Advocate @ Pandora

posted by asok at 2:53 AM on August 3, 2006

I don't add bands, that makes the possibilities too wide. I add specific songs. Seems to work.
posted by XiBe at 5:27 AM on August 3, 2006

Thanks for the help, everyone. I'm going to start a test station that will be based only on songs, not artists. Pandora has turned me on to two of who are now my favorite artists (David Mead and Matt Nathanson), so I can't really complain about what they show me, but it'll be cool if I can have more control over what I hear with these suggestions.
posted by sjuhawk31 at 5:37 AM on August 3, 2006