Comments on: Copying pages from books in a bookstore

Question: Copying pages from books in a bookstore

stbalbach — Wed, 26 Jul 2006 10:46:06 -0800

What's the best way to copy 5 or 10 pages from a book in a bookstore? What's the legality of it if I was "busted"?

By: necessitas

necessitas — Wed, 26 Jul 2006 10:50:18 -0800

Assuming you are doing this for some legal reason, like using the pages as properly cited research for a paper or report of some kind, the best way would be to go to the LIBRARY and make photocopies.

By: adamrice

adamrice — Wed, 26 Jul 2006 10:51:29 -0800

Perhaps try using Amazon's "look inside" if available.

By: mikepop

mikepop — Wed, 26 Jul 2006 10:53:55 -0800

If you don't need a perfect copy (for example if you just need to reference some info), take a close-up mode picture of each page with a digital camera at high resolution. The larger the bookstore you do this in, the less chance anyone will care, or even notice.

By: ml98tu

ml98tu — Wed, 26 Jul 2006 11:02:51 -0800

I suppose you could buy the book, copy, and return. If you need to make up an excuse, you could say it was the wrong one or something. Be sure not to crack the spine though. I've returned unread books with no problem, but I don't know what would happen if you cracked the spine.

By: misanthropicsarah

misanthropicsarah — Wed, 26 Jul 2006 11:02:53 -0800

Legality? They'd probably make you buy it if you were in the store.

In the library? Well, that's what it's there for, and that's why they have copy machines.

By: ml98tu

ml98tu — Wed, 26 Jul 2006 11:06:10 -0800

Another idea that is significantly more labor intensive but will almost certainly work: bring a laptop, park yourself on a comfy chair, and start typing. I can't imagine anyone would give you any trouble since you'd look like you're studying and not doing anything suspicious.

By: Nothing

Nothing — Wed, 26 Jul 2006 11:10:01 -0800

They cannot make you buy it.

By: needs more cowbell

needs more cowbell — Wed, 26 Jul 2006 11:17:05 -0800

Get it from the library. If it's obscure, you can search for it through Open Worldcat using Google or Yahoo. You can enter your zip code and it will find libraries (including college libraries) in your area that have the book.

By: arco

arco — Wed, 26 Jul 2006 11:17:23 -0800

Seriously: library.

By: mogabog

mogabog — Wed, 26 Jul 2006 11:18:54 -0800

I'd say buy it.

By: TedW

TedW — Wed, 26 Jul 2006 11:21:53 -0800

A little more information might help generate some more creative answers: what book(s) do you want to copy and why do you want 5-10 pages? If you are not planning to redistribute the pages (and maybe if you are) the amount is certainly consistent with fair use under copyright laws. How good do the copies need to be?

By: Mitheral

Mitheral — Wed, 26 Jul 2006 11:31:09 -0800

Handheld scanner like the Docupen. Legally the copyright owner might be able to sue but I can't imagine the bookstore could do anything.

By: Classic Diner

Classic Diner — Wed, 26 Jul 2006 11:31:48 -0800

Go to the library. The bookstore is there to sell books, not just store them until you need a few pages.

By: grumblebee

grumblebee — Wed, 26 Jul 2006 11:36:35 -0800

Slightly off-topic, perhaps, but if I owned a bookstore, I'd be all for it -- unless my store could get in trouble with the rights owners by letting you do it. I'd look at it the way Barnes and Noble looks at browsing/reading in the coffee shop. At least you're IN my store. If I make my store a friendly place, where people can interact with the books, they're more likely to enjoy being there and come back. And maybe buy something, even if it's on some other day.

By: NYCinephile

NYCinephile — Wed, 26 Jul 2006 11:41:47 -0800

FindLaw on the concept of "fair use".

Based on a quick skim of the article, I don't believe your question can be accurately answered unless you specify how you intend to use the copies.

By: crabintheocean

crabintheocean — Wed, 26 Jul 2006 11:45:08 -0800

No comment on the ethics or legality of this, I don't think it's going to get you arrested, but I plead no contest to it being kind of a crappy thing to do, but I have on occasion photocopied pages from map books at Staples. I was sneaky about it, and I only got busted once; the staff person told me that I couldn't do it because of copyright, and made me destroy the copies. I just said "Oh, sorry". He may have thought that it was my own map though, I'd imagine if they thought you were doing it to avoid buying the book, you might be asked to leave.

I don't think I've ever seen a photocopier in a book store though...

By: Rash

Rash — Wed, 26 Jul 2006 12:31:06 -0800

don't think I've ever seen a photocopier in a book store though

This is my dream. The modern Borders & Nobles make it so easy to park in a comfy chair with a pile of books one has no intention of buying, and then deploying your notebook and transcribing, but the handheld scanner Mitheral suggests would certainly automate the task.

(This was my method of travel research until I discovered how up-to-date the travel books were, in a near-by wealthy neighborhood's library.)

By: fvox13

fvox13 — Wed, 26 Jul 2006 12:31:15 -0800

Generally, if you're making the copies for educational usage, you can legally copy up to 10% of a book or other work. (IANAL).

As far as method, you might want to try a handheld scanner, digital camera, or just buy the book / go to the library.

By: languagehat

languagehat — Wed, 26 Jul 2006 12:43:41 -0800

Go to the library. The bookstore is there to sell books, not just store them until you need a few pages.

Seconded.

/has worked at both bookstores and libraries

By: stbalbach

stbalbach — Wed, 26 Jul 2006 12:56:14 -0800

Thanks Mitheral, that's the kind of solution I was looking for. Pretty cool little device.

By: Rubber Soul

Rubber Soul — Wed, 26 Jul 2006 13:02:40 -0800

Either go to the library, or buy the book, copy the pages, and return it in good condition. It really ticks the bookstore workers off if you're blatantly copying, partly because we get so many people who come up and demand to know where our photocopier is, and are shocked when we don't have one because -gasp!- we want to -sell- books. Copying it in plain sight, in the store, is insulting.

And yes, you people who get a huge stack of unpaid-for books, (travel, craft, and home decorating are the worst offenders), with all your notebooks and laptop and hand-scanners and stuff, who set up on a table, and spend hours, lingering, sometimes demanding we fetch you another book... and then you depart right at closing, leaving behind a huge mess of empty coffee cups, crumpled napkins, and a huge stack of unshelved books, often with dog-ears, UNDERLINE marks and HIGHLIGHTER in them, and you don't even buy a damn thing... well, there's a place in Hell for you, by author's name, under "B".

We'd much rather you buy the book, copy it at home, and then bring it back.

By: DevilsAdvocate

DevilsAdvocate — Wed, 26 Jul 2006 13:11:06 -0800

Generally, if you're making the copies for educational usage, you can legally copy up to 10% of a book or other work.

If only fair use were actually that clear-cut!

By: robhuddles

robhuddles — Wed, 26 Jul 2006 13:26:04 -0800

Tim O'Reilly has some thoughts on this for all you "just copy it in the bookstore" folks. It'd make a curious sociology research study to try to discover when, exactly, it became "okay" to steal from big companies just because they are big companies.

As many others have said: use the damn library.

By: FlamingBore

FlamingBore — Wed, 26 Jul 2006 13:39:32 -0800

grumblebee - you could very much get in trouble for that. See the legal case against Kinko's in the early 80s (I think).

By: web-goddess

web-goddess — Wed, 26 Jul 2006 20:18:23 -0800

"Copying it in plain sight, in the store, is insulting."

I totally agree. I work in a knitting shop and we get a ton of people asking if they can just photocopy patterns from books. No, you have to buy the whole thing. Yeah, there are unscrupulous shops out there who will give you a copy if you buy the wool, but you could get busted really easy doing that. I actually had a woman this morning ask to borrow a pen and then follow this seemingly innocent request up with: "...SO I CAN COPY THE HAT PATTERN OUT OF THIS BOOK." Most of the time I just turn a blind eye. Not because I don't think they're rude (they are), but because if I crack down on it, they'll just rip the pattern out and steal it anyway. (That happens depressingly often.)

Of course, at our shop we don't accept return on pattern books, mostly because we know people will just do exactly what most of the commenters are suggesting: take it home and photocopy it.

By: geekhorde

geekhorde — Wed, 26 Jul 2006 22:19:51 -0800

Yeah. Go to the library. Don't be a douche.

By: booksherpa

booksherpa — Wed, 26 Jul 2006 23:32:45 -0800

Rubber Soul, preach it!

I work in a bookstore. Go to the library, who doesn't mind you photocopying books, and do it there. Your local library doesn't have it? That's what inter-library loan is for. We wouldn't "bust" you in the sense that we'd call the cops; we'd probably just take the book away. Will the library method take longer? Yes, probably, but it will be legal and ethical. Look, I'm sorry you only need 5-10 pages of a book, and I can't blame you for not wanting to spend the money, but that's what libraries are for. We have rent and salaries and cost of goods to pay, and we are short staffed enough without having to clean up after people who have no intention of buying the product. Pictures, such as mikepop suggested, are not the right method. We will absolutely stop someone taking pictures in the store, and I work in a "larger store".

If none of this has moved you, and you're hellbent on copying stuff out of the book at the bookstore, here's how you improve your karma:

- Get a drink or some food at the cafe. Tip the baristas. Don't spill the drink on the book.
- Put all your books away in the correct place when you are done. Don't leave them for us to reshelve. Don't crack the spine or leave the bookface down.
- Buy *something*. A magazine, a paperback, a CD, a bookmark, whatever.

Damn, where'd that soapbox come from? Okay, I'm done.

By: IndigoRain

IndigoRain — Thu, 27 Jul 2006 00:39:30 -0800

So this person marked the DocuPen as best answer... should we assume that the OP is going to spend $145 on a handheld scanner to avoid paying $20-30 for a book?

Also, an in-between if you can't find it in the library - get it used off Amazon. It tends to be much cheaper, and I get books that are in like-new condition for just a few dollars.

By: Mitheral

Mitheral — Thu, 27 Jul 2006 07:01:31 -0800

IndigoRain writes "should we assume that the OP is going to spend $145 on a handheld scanner to avoid paying $20-30 for a book?"

It's not like the scanner would self destruct after 10 pages.

By: stbalbach

stbalbach — Thu, 27 Jul 2006 14:31:15 -0800

So this person marked the DocuPen as best answer

*Evil laugh*