A friend of mine said something hurtful. Should I be offended?

July 25, 2006 5:01 PM

A friend of mine said something hurtful. Should I be offended? (Long)

I have a very close girlfriend that I have been friends with since the 7th grade. I will call her Jane. We lost touch for the last year or two because of our busy lives. We have recently got back in touch and have been going out here and there, and speak on the phone frequently. My friend is a great conversationalist and a good listener so we gab a lot.

A few months ago I was feeling kind of sad about my marriage. I was complaining to my friend Jane that my husband never wants to go anywhere, and doesn't have many friends. My husband is an introvert. I knew this when I married him nearly 8 years ago, and my friend Jane knows my husband's personality very well too.

Every six months or so I start feeling frustrated about the fact that my husband and I don't have any friends in common, nor do we have any sort of social life that we share. I have my friends and he has his. My husband likes to play poker, and he usually plays with people much older than him.

I wouldn't say my husband is depressed, but he is unsure of himself, and gets flustered and shy around new people. He tends to avoid social contacts for this reason. His closest friend is his uncle, and the uncle is thirty years his senior. My husband and I don't go out with other couples, and if we do, it is very infrequent. It drives me crazy that small talk is so difficult for him, and he lacks many of the social graces that come so easily to most of the population.

I was telling the above story to my friend Jane. She didn't offer much advice, which is nice, because I wasn't really looking for advice. I was just complaining about the situation, and wanted somebody to talk to.

Without making this a very very long story, I will try to be concise. My friend Jane is very close with her brother-in-law John. John is our age (mid-thirties), and one of the cool kids. He is outgoing, funny, good looking, has a great job, yada, yada. Even though brother-in-law John is married to Jane's sister, he loves to spend a lot of time with my friend Jane. Often without his wife, who is Jane's sister. Jane is equally great looking, outgoing, and hilarious. I think Jane secretly may have a tiny crush on John. Jane thinks John is the cat's pajamas, and nearly idolizes him. John is very flirty, and loves to hug and kiss friends, and has commented to Jane, that "she is easy on the eyes."

Jane is divorced, so when she doesn't have her children, she likes to go out on the town, and has become quite the party animal. I went out with her a couple times for drinks without my husband. My husband is fine with this, and stayed home to watch our children. I basically sit there and enjoy the live music, chat a bit, and have a few beers while watching men attempting to pick up Jane. I recently introduced Jane to a divorced male friend, and they are both smitten with one another. The first thing she said to me when she laid eyes on my friend is, "He looks like John".

Jane continued to invite me out, and I told her I was having a great time going out, but I don't feel comfortable going to drinking establishments without my husband, unless it was strictly a "girls night out".

I decided to invite my husband to go out with four other couples for drinks, and he said that he would love to go. I was so excited that he wanted to go. We met up with Jane and the new smitten guy, John and his wife, and a few other couples. My husband was talking a lot with the guys, and I was chatting with the girls. I felt relieved because my husband seemed to be having no problems talking with a couple of the men, and appeared to be having a good time.

The next morning Jane called me on the phone to chat. She said to me, "I don't want to hurt your feelings, but John said, 'I could not talk to Lori's husband at all. What does she see in him? I can't believe they are together. I would never think Lori would be married to a person like that. How long have they been together?" She then said, "I just wanted to tell you that, because now your feelings are confirmed. I told John that you have been together with your husband for a long time, and Lori's husband looks at life differently, he is very smart." I am sure they spoke more about what a drip or dork my husband was, but my friend kept that information to herself.

I wish I would of told my friend that, "yeah that does hurt my feelings", but instead I said something like, "well maybe he was trying too hard, and maybe he was a bit intimidated by John. John has a larger than life personality, and maybe it was difficult for a shy person like my husband to talk to him."

Part of me wants to know why my friend would even relay this information back to me. My friend knows that I love my husband and I am not planning on leaving him, I just feel unhappy about our social life. She knows that I am not willing to break my family apart just because my husband isn't an outgoing person like myself. I now feel like I can't bring my husband around these people, especially John, because he is not one of the "cool" people. I don't care to see John, even though he probably didn't intend for Jane to tell me what he said about my husband. Jane keeps calling me and inviting me out, and I have talked to her on the phone a great deal. I have never led her to believe I was upset about her telling me about John's comment.

Should I be offended? Does this sound like a real friend? She invited me out tonight to this little place with great live music, and I told her I might go. My husband would have to stay home with our kids.

At the end of composing this question she just called me back to tell me that John and his wife would be there. Should I stay home with my husband and screw these people? Or am I making too much of it?

Thank you for your thoughts, advice, and comments.

posted by LoriFLA to human relations (40 comments total)

If you opened the door of what goes on inside your marriage to your friend, you can't reasonably act hurt if she walks around in it. If you value her friendship, close that door gently, quit making comments to her about your relationship with your husband, and take her friendship and activities for what they are worth.

If you would enjoy accompanying her drinking on girls nights out, and she's amenable, great. Your husband doesn't seem to have a problem with that, and until or unless he does, it's nobody else's business why he'd rather stay home with the kids than be guy #4 in a group square dance team. But if guys are hitting on Jane on your girls nights out, and you're watching, that's not really girls night out, is it? That's watching Jane have fun, and wondering what it's like.
posted by paulsc at 5:15 PM on July 25, 2006

What your friend said about your husband was tactless, rude, and shockingly immature. Women I know left that shit behind in high school. And, with all respect, you should have called Jane on it the second it was out of her mouth.
posted by Zozo at 5:16 PM on July 25, 2006

My opinion: your friend thought she was doing you a favor by telling you what someone else said about your husband that jibed with what you'd been telling her. She simply didn't realize how it might hurt you. You should bear in mind that she's probably heard you bitching a lot about him without talking about his positive qualities (the ones that keep the two of you together) and, within that context, she may have felt like it was okay to share John's feelings with you.

Instead of taking it out on your friend and getting upset at her for what amounts to her misunderstanding you, especially since you seem to be enjoying getting out of the house, I'd suggest you modify your own behavior and start talking up your husband. Make it clear to your friend that when you are complaining about his lack of a social life, that you really are just blowing off steam, and that his good qualities far outweigh the bad, and that you have no intention of leaving him.
posted by MegoSteve at 5:17 PM on July 25, 2006

You are right to feel hurt and you should be offended. You weren't really asking for validation of your feelings about your social life, were you? Who would need validation for something like that? And passing along something like, "What does she see in him? I can't believe they are together. I would never think Lori would be married to a person like that." doesn't affirm anything, nor is it even a critique of your social life. It is a critique of your husband, period. And your friend saying she was passing that along without intending to hurt your feelings is the equivalent of saying something offensive and then saying, "No offense."

My guess is that your friend is either jealous of your marriage or not too crazy about your husband herself. Zip your lip about your personal problems from here on out. She's a "fun friend," but not someone who has your best interests at heart.
posted by chippie at 5:27 PM on July 25, 2006

Echoing what MegoSteve said, always be careful that you aren't just complaining about your spouse to friends and other close associates. Be sure to mention the good stuff too, or don't mention anything at all.

I went through something similar with a friend of mine. I didn't realize I had only been talking about the times he annoyed me. That's what we did, both gripe about our spouses. I always assumed her husband obviously had some good qualities or they wouldn't have been together 9 years, but she must have failed to have the same realization about my 15 year marriage/husband. The day she told me he was such a jerk I should leave him, I realized I had only been complaining about the stuff he didn't do or shouldn't have done and not mentioning how he brought me flowers/surprised me with dinner out/did the laundry/etc., and she'd gotten a very skewed impression of what was going on.

She and I still complain about our spouses to each other, which is great, because I think everyone needs someone to do the "spouse complaining" to. Now though I make sure I mention the good stuff too.

Oh, and I wouldn't be upset with your friend for passing on the information. It told you a whole lot more about John than it did your husband or your friend's attitude about your husband. John sounds like a jerk.
posted by Orb at 5:28 PM on July 25, 2006

Ouch. Yes, your friend was insensitive but then she was also agreeing with you. That's the problem with confiding about your marriage to anyone that's not a therapist.

I would probably mention that her comment hurt my feelings. I would also cut way back on confiding about the husband. She doesn't sound like a trustworthy confidant. You have to assume that everything you are telling her is getting to John.
posted by Soda-Da at 5:33 PM on July 25, 2006

I am your husband. not literally. I actually think Jane did the right thing here, and probably did so with almost as much tact as possible. John sounds like an asshole, but not any worse than your typical sports-bar espn-watching beer jockey. I'd take this as validation that they don't want to hang around your husband anymore, and you have free license to stop hanging around with them. What your story tells me is (1) you and your husband are actually pretty good for each other, and (2) you have less in common with these friends of yours than you think. If other people react to your husband in the same way, he might want to consider cognitive therapy or self-help in the way of social rehabilitation.
posted by Saucy Intruder at 5:48 PM on July 25, 2006

I'm engaged to an introvert who has the same tough time around my friends that your husband does. None of them have said anything even remotely like that to me, just as I've never said anything like that about their significant others' quirks. If they did I'd respond with something like, "Oh that's funny! Last night my fiance and I were talking about what a tactless jerk your boyfriend is!"

However - is your friend insecure about her relationship? I knew a girl who would thoroughly bash our married friends' relationships because she felt awkward about her own lack of a steady relationship. Maybe your friend feels insecure and she and her boyfriend like to find fault in other relationships so they can feel better about their own. Not that this excuses her behavior...it's just easier to swallow when you know you should be pitying her instead of hating her.
posted by christinetheslp at 6:01 PM on July 25, 2006

MegoSteve's right.
posted by klangklangston at 6:12 PM on July 25, 2006 [1 favorite]

Your friend is a bitch. Dump her. There is no time and no place for people like that to be considered friends, especially at your ages.
posted by cellphone at 6:23 PM on July 25, 2006

I agree with MegoSteve too.
posted by bingo at 6:28 PM on July 25, 2006

christinetheslp, she isn't in a relationship. Tonight is her fourth date with a guy I recently introduced her to. She pals around a lot with her brother-in-law, and I think they like to gossip about other people quite a bit.

I couldn't help to feel terrible when it was made known that my husband isn't good enough to hang out with. I do feel like I am in high-school again. I have a tiny twinge of feeling that my husband is a dork, and I am a dork for marrying him. I was having so much fun with these people. I feel that I am fun, and people want to hang with me. It's like when you realize you aren't part of the group. I know--it's a completely dumb and juvenile thing to feel.

Thanks for all of the answers so far. I love reading them. I agree, I shouldn't complain about my husband, especially if I withhold speaking about his positive attributes.

She called me back and said the place was packed, and wanted to know if I was coming. I said I wasn't coming, to have fun, and we will do it again soon.
posted by LoriFLA at 6:30 PM on July 25, 2006

Megosteve's right. You shouldn't feel offended but you should let your friend know that she did hurt you. You should make it clear that (a) when you talk about your marriage with her you are talking to her and only her. As a matter of trust she shouldn't repeat your words to anybody else (b) it's a very sensitive subject and you don't want confirmation or advice, you just want somebody to vent to (c) nobody should go around insulting your husband behind his back and expect to remain friends with you. This is tough but, particularly with a close friend, you should be able to be 100% honest and draw the line. Don't admonish her, and try not to be angry, just make it clear with her where things stand.
posted by nixerman at 6:32 PM on July 25, 2006

If I were you, I wouldn't hold this against John *at all*. I think we all say this sort of stuff in the privacy of our friendships, assuming our friend isn't going to go say it to the other person's face. Don't even mention it to him, try to erase it from your mind.

As for Jane, is it possibly she only hears the negative side of your marriage? I know sometimes I only hear the bad stuff about relationships from my girlfriends when they need to vent, because who needs to vent when they're happy? Maybe she thinks you're really truly unhappy, and was trying to support you. Maybe that's also why she keeps calling you to invite you out places. I would do as people above have suggested and let her know that you truly are happy in your marriage, and that you appreciate her caring efforts, but that she doesn't have to worry so much about you.

Don't let it stew, seriously- once you've talked to her, you'll feel better, and maybe even free enough to continue going out with the gang, if you so desire.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 6:36 PM on July 25, 2006 [1 favorite]

A divorced friend who flirts with her sister's husband? This is a dangerous woman. She doesn't understand boundaries between friends, family and probably it spills into other parts of her life although that's of little concern here. The issue is that she used information you gave her to hurt your feelings. Your husband might be an introverted dork but he's your introverted jerk. Telling a 'friend' that the husband of her sister thinks he's a jerk didn't serve you at all. It just made her feel better about herself by diminishing another. Telling her how you feel will only make her defensive. She's trouble. I'd suggest treading carefully around her. She may be fun to be around but she's not a true friend. Be very careful what you tell her. IMO
posted by lois1950 at 6:42 PM on July 25, 2006

Lori, it isn't that you are complaining about your spouse. Everyone does that. I think it's pretty healthy to do, actually. It's just that your friend seems to have a skewed picture of your relationship with your husband and she's also got a crush on her sister's husband, so anything he says is going to resonate with her.

What's wrong with being a dork?
posted by MegoSteve at 6:48 PM on July 25, 2006

What's wrong with being a dork?

Not a thing.
posted by LoriFLA at 6:53 PM on July 25, 2006

People like Jane and John are the sort of folks who want the entirety of adult life to be like a sorority or fraternity. It's all about posturing, being a "great guy," loving sports, having the hail-fellow-well-met personality, etc. It's all bullshit.

I sense that you want to be accepted by these people, and you're torn between your desire to be accepted by them, and your anger and shame that your husband has been singled out as a dork by them.

You've got to stand for your husband. Fuck those assholes. Both John and Jane have made it clear that they consider your husband a pariah, and any further interaction with them can only enforce their view that they are apex of human normalcy and sociability, and that you and your husband measure your merits by their yardstick. Fuck them; screw them; to hell with them.

The problem is not with your husband, it's with them. They think and act like cruel children. You and your husband need to build your own social life with people who don't think the way John and Jane do.

**********

These are the comments I agree with:

A divorced friend who flirts with her sister's husband? This is a dangerous woman.
posted by lois1950

What your friend said about your husband was tactless, rude, and shockingly immature.
posted by Zozo

You are right to feel hurt and you should be offended.... Zip your lip about your personal problems from here on out. She's a "fun friend," but not someone who has your best interests at heart.
posted by chippie

It told you a whole lot more about John than it did your husband or your friend's attitude about your husband. John sounds like a jerk.
posted by Orb

Your friend is a bitch. Dump her. There is no time and no place for people like that to be considered friends, especially at your ages.
posted by cellphone


I disagree with this:

If other people react to your husband in the same way, he might want to consider cognitive therapy or self-help in the way of social rehabilitation.
posted by Saucy Intruder
posted by jayder at 7:49 PM on July 25, 2006

MegoSteve is right both times, especially the second time.

She repeated it because she's got a crush on John, which means she's in the "Everything he says is so insightful and I must repeat it so everyone agrees how wonderful he is" stage of infatuation. It has nothing to do with you or your husband. It was an excuse to talk about John.

It's probable John didn't even really say exactly what Jane passed along, she was just presenting it to you in such a way as to echo what you had previously said so that his insight seemed that much more insightful (if that makes any sense). She wanted to make John look as smart and as observant as possible. That's all.

I wouldn't stress about it. It's probably worth telling her that you don't want to hear negative comments about your husband, but beyond that, I'd let it drop. Hang out with them if they're fun, have your husband hang out with them if he thinks they're fun, and just figure that Jane's having her own little weird drama that's going to color her intrepretation of all events.
posted by occhiblu at 7:53 PM on July 25, 2006

Maybe you and your husband should spend more time with the other couples you all went out with, and less time with John and Jane. You say your husband seemed to enjoy being social and interacting with these other folks- could Jane be jealous? Could John be jealous?
his mean spirited comment and Jane's subsequent relaying of that comment (and the fact that the comment doesn't seem to have much to do with what you and your husband experienced that night), seems quite fishy, somehow. I almost feel if it were me, I'd want to ask Jane why she repeated those things... it's somehow more puzzling than offensive.
posted by oneirodynia at 8:01 PM on July 25, 2006

MegoSteve has it, and you're blowing this thing up way bigger than it needs to be. You are not your husband. Honest reportage about other people's reactions to your husband are not insults to you. People talk. Most of it means very little. There is no need to spin your emotional wheels like you're living in a cheap soap opera. Let this go.
posted by flabdablet at 8:01 PM on July 25, 2006

Yeah, and ignore the folks that are taking this offhand comment to be indicative of both John and Jane's total characters, inventing fully-formed fantasies about how evil they are. They're the ones that never got over high school.
posted by klangklangston at 8:24 PM on July 25, 2006

Okay, let me see if I have this down correctly. This is a person you speak with on the phone "frequently", and go out with "here and there", yes? And somehow despite all of this contact she doesn't understand that you are blowing steam, not looking for an excuse to either dump your husband or at least not bring him out in public?

Yeah, I'd say you have a right to be offended. Seems to me this bitch cares so little for you that she's not paying attention (because a real friend actually notices things like the difference between all those things), and she's ~not~ your friend, she's just someone you deal with a lot . And she doesn't care how you feel. If she did, she certainly wouldn't say something like that so baldly. If she was trying to convince you to leave, or let you know that they'd really rather you didn't bring your life mate, she would have done it much more tactfully. If she was trying to reassure you that your complaints were valid, that would hardly be the way to go about it. Besides, beginning the comment with "I don't want to hurt your feelings.." says "I don't care if this hurts your feelings, I'm going to tell you." If you think something you're going to say is going to hurt someone you care about for no reason, you don't say it. No good was going to come of her repeating that to you, so why do so? Because she didn't care.

If you want to hang out with her, have fun, but I wouldn't trust her with anything truly personal.

Myself, I'd have doubts about a woman who was having a long term flirtation with her bro-in-law that involved them spending lots of time alone. She seems to have interesting ideas about how to treat the women in her life. Her friend, her sister...
posted by Meep! Eek! at 8:27 PM on July 25, 2006

Looks like John's been grooming Jane for an affair (if they're not having one already) and you just put a big kink in his plans for a harem with that little introduction you made. He's angry with you and is taking a slap at you, I'd say.

Why don't you call up your male friend tomorrow and ask him how the evening went? My guess is John will try to dominate him and put him in a bad light in order to try to hold onto Jane, and because that's just the sort of person he is. Oh, and you might consider warning him about the situation you just got him into, too.
posted by jamjam at 8:36 PM on July 25, 2006

About her motivations: She may have meant to give you a weird compliment - "John thought you were so much cooler than your husband. You go sister." Maybe she thinks (through the lens of her own divorce?) that your relationship is seriously on the rocks and that you need encouragement to break away, so she's trying to echo what she hears from you - "oh, he's such a homebody and a dork".

I agree with Megosteve too. The situation has a little of the the classic "Of course I think my little brother's a dork, but he's my brother. Anyone else who says he's a dork is in big trouble."

Also agree with occhiblu and others who have said this has more to do with her own issues (infatuation with John, insecurity, desperate need to see herself as cool and young and dramatic). She doesn't sound like someone to cultivate as a true friend, but also doesn't sound truly malicious.
posted by LobsterMitten at 8:44 PM on July 25, 2006

I will say that jayder might be on to something. John used to be a sports agent on the West coast, came back east and now he is a drug rep. I think he has a Public Relations degree and some other degree that I can't recall. He went to the University of Florida, and has some buds down her that went also, and they are very tight. He looks like a jock, is very tall, good looking, and is very outgoing and funny. John, his wife, and Jane are always going to parties, and have lots of friends. They are always dining at fancy restaurants to woo surgeons. They go down to South Florida and stay in fancy hotels, and live this party life. He usually styles himself very casually. Jeans, flip-flops, and worn cotton shirts. It all looks so, "I just threw this on, surfer guy", but it is very deliberate. Nothing wrong with that really, but he takes appearances very seriously. He is over protective of Jane. Another friend has called him, "Jane's warrior". He jumped in the car with my guy friend while we were bar hopping, and interrogated him. surprisingly, he liked my friend. The friend got John's stamp of approval, and I can't help to wonder if it's because my friend drives a brand new sporty Lexus, and dresses impeccably. My husband is reserved, balding, and drives a Ford Ranger. Not the epitome of cool. He is somebody that would cramp John's style.

John is very flirty with Jane and kisses her straight on the lips. He always comments on her appearance in a flirty suggestive way. The other night when Jane was very drunk, John kissed her on the mouth, and then tried to get Jane to kiss me. I refused in a jokey way. I thought that was so strange. When John left, I was pretty much like WTF? I asked Jane if she knew why John's first wife left him. Jane said she didn't know. All signs point to infidelity. John could not stand Jane's last boyfriend, and didn't hesitate to tell Jane and the boyfriend how he felt. Jane's last boyfriend had his Ph.D., and John probably felt intimidated by him.

My friend Jane has always been a bit self-absorbed. She can also be very nice, and mostly is a blast to hang out with. She is hilarious, and has a fantastic wit and sense of humor. She loves to be surrounded by people, and has always had a ton of friends. When I think just a few of us are going out for drinks, I soon learn that she has called and invited just about everybody she knows. As the years go on, I find that she has become even more self-absorbed. She is hyper-focused on appearances, and has commented on people being dorky or uncool many times. She knows that I love fashion, and asks me what is in or out. I swear, it's like she hasn't left high-school. She has a fixation with name brands when it comes to fashion. I love fashion as much as the next woman, but I don't need my shoes to say Jimmy Choo to feel good about myself. She definitely does not have a Jimmy Choo salary. More like Target.

I would become annoyed with her over the years, and took frequent breaks from her. She can be very judgement and has a way of making you feel inadequate.

It's probably safe to say that my husband isn't somebody she would like to be seen with nowadays, especially since John disapproves.

I do really like a lot of things about her though. I know that she has a lot of insecurities, and is far from perfect.

My guy friend seems to love her. She is beautiful, has a ton of friends, and has a fun personality. It's easy to get wrapped up in that.
posted by LoriFLA at 9:32 PM on July 25, 2006

About her motivations: She may have meant to give you a weird compliment - "John thought you were so much cooler than your husband. You go sister." Maybe she thinks (through the lens of her own divorce?) that your relationship is seriously on the rocks and that you need encouragement to break away, so she's trying to echo what she hears from you - "oh, he's such a homebody and a dork".

I think you hit the nail on the head. I was thinking the same thing. She has commented many times that she needed to get out of her marriage while she was young and had a fighting chance for happiness, and to meet somebody (even though her husband wanted the divorce, not her). She may feel that I am very unhappy and that I should leave now at age 33 while the gettins' good.
posted by LoriFLA at 9:37 PM on July 25, 2006

gawd, please excuse terrible grammar in these posts of mine!
posted by LoriFLA at 9:40 PM on July 25, 2006

my gut feeling is that i wouldn't be pissed at jane ... i'd be concerned about her ... john sounds controlling and manipulative to me ... and it's quite possible that he said that to jane to encourage her to put some distance between her and the two of you ... perhaps part of her motivation may have been that she's actually trying to work out why he would have said such a thing about your husband

i don't think that jane's saying this was very sensitive of her ... but i wonder if her lack of sensitivity is blinding her to what's going on between her and john

the real bottom line where you're concerned is this ... not only do you have to accept your husband for the kind of person he is, which i'm sure you have, but you're going to have to accept how others will react to his introversion ... that doesn't mean you have to like it or think that it's fair, but you're not going to change it, just as you're not going to change him ... it's part of your life, and similar things will happen again ... some people will react negatively and you can't control that ... you can, of course, control whether you want to socialize with such people
posted by pyramid termite at 10:16 PM on July 25, 2006

I have to say that I wouldn't be friends with either of these people. Not so much because of the comments, which were certainly insensitive and possibly deliberately mean, but because of the "high school" atmosphere that seems to permeate their lives. Some of the most interesting and inspiring people I have known were not "cool". Some of the best advice I've gotten in my life was from a groundskeeper at a golf course that I initially thought was brain damaged (true!). We can learn to be better people from many strange and wonderful sources if we pay attention to what people say, even if they aren't cool. Placing too much emphasis on "cool" indicates a serious lack of maturity, and John's adulterous frat boy behavior doesn't help. The fact that Jane has a crush on this slimeball doesn't speak too well of her either.

I would keep her at arm's length, and I'd never hang out with John again. I'd also likely tell her what I thought of John and why I was disappointed in her. Your husband's introverted nature is not likely to change, but if you impress upon him that you would like to do more social activities I would think that he would at least try. Just remember that introverts HATE that stuff, so you owe him big time if he does it (I am an introvert, and for me it truly is hard work to be in social situations).
posted by tcobretti at 10:44 PM on July 25, 2006

the more i hear about this situation, the more like high school it sounds.

i was in a similar situation recently when i made a stupid joke about an employee's relationship with her mother. (yeah... it's as bad as it sounds.) the problem was the emlpoyee only ever slagged off their mom and made it sound like their relationship was very dysfunctional. apparently there was a lot more going on that i never heard about, and so my "joke" really cut deeper than intended. it took three months of seething before the offended employee blew up at me, and finally found out the problem. was i wrong for saying the joke? yes, and i still feel bad about it. should my employee have been seething with hurt and anger for three months? most likely not. they recognized that they tend to vent a lot, and that really i only heard about one side of their mother. i agreed no more jokes/comments, they agreed to try and remember what they've given me as a frame of reference.

point is- it's natural to vent to your friends, but if you do it too much, that's the version of your husband they get. i agree with everybody above that you should either just not talk to her about it, because she's clearly a leaky vessel, try to talk about positive and negative things about your man, or just don't talk to her about him at all. i know it's hard, but keeping quiet is probably the best all around.
posted by kendrak at 11:23 PM on July 25, 2006

You're asking if you should be offended. Presumably that means you are still on the fence. If you have a choice, I'd recommend opting for not being offended. Easier on everybody.
posted by king walnut at 1:28 AM on July 26, 2006

I think you should stop hanging out with these people, simply because of their high school drama. At the very least, only hang out with them without your husband and without talking about him. And if they make weird clique-ish comments about themselves and the world, try to set yourself apart: "You think her dress is dorky? I like it" ; "I guess she's a little awkward, but honestly she's really nice" ; etc.

I also think you shouldn't expect your husband to hang out with them at all.

If he has a limited tolerance for socializing, you should limit the social stuff you do together to people who don't make his social anxiety worse -- nice, not party, not cool types.
posted by croutonsupafreak at 6:28 AM on July 26, 2006

This all sounds like an awful lot of work. The bottom line is that you'd like to do more stuff with your husband, and your husband doesn't seem to like these people much. I'd focus on stuff you can control and try to find things that you'd both enjoy, instead of worrying about all this drama.
posted by ZippityBOP at 6:59 AM on July 26, 2006

Did you feel like Jane was trying to hurt your feelings when she said that? It sounds like they were just feeling what you feel yourself, that "it drives [you] crazy that small talk is so difficult for him, and he lacks many of the social graces that come so easily to most of the population." Just doing the same kind of venting that you do yourself. (I know, though, it's different when someone else says it.) And Jane defended your husband and your commitment to your marriage, right? "[Jane] told John that you have been together with your husband for a long time, and Lori's husband looks at life differently, he is very smart."

To me, it sounds like you feel hurt and maybe betrayed, but I'm not sure she meant to betray you. Maybe it just touched a sore spot? Since part of you really does want to be accepted by them with your husband? If you didn't care about their opinion, these comments would not offend you, so maybe the trick is to decide you're too cool to care what they think.

So, if you get back to basics, you say what you most want is a shared social life and friends in common with your husband. I'm not sure these are the friends to do it with or not. But it sounds like you've been friends with Jane for a long time. I bet if you continue to believe in your husband's unique good qualities, and as Jane tells John more about them, and as John discovers them for himself, they could see that your husband is unique and appreciate him for what he is. You could appeal to their desire to be cool -- your husband is the anti-cool, which is actually the coolest type of all -- he's so cool, he doesn't need to be cool. Over time, your husband might feel more comfortable, and then all of you can hang out together after all. (I think the trick with introverts is to find people he likes well enough and then keep trying. Eventually they become more like his inner circle than like the outside world.)

But maybe you don't like them as much as you thought. I agree it sounds like she and John most of all just want to be cool, John even more than Lori. Those are flaws, but are they so bad that it makes you not want to be around them? In any case, I would tell Jane your feelings were hurt -- sounds like you're too upset to stay friends without hearing an apology. You could also confront John and say "So, my husband's not cool enough for you?" -- he'll probably deny it or apologize, feel bad, and reconsider his attitude. I guess I personally think that they're lame but that what they did wasn't so bad, that you could give them a chance to apologize if you really like them.
posted by beatrice at 7:41 AM on July 26, 2006

Frankly, after reading your responses, it seems like you enjoy gossip and drama just as much as the rest of them, so go with your gut. You'll be less happy but your life will be more exciting.
Aside from that, let it go already. Jesus, you sound like a fishwife.
posted by klangklangston at 8:11 AM on July 26, 2006

It sounds like you enjoy periodically hanging out with Jane, but I think you also need to find other friends - friends who will be more understanding of your husband's nature.

Not every socially-oriented person is going to be impatient and annoyed with introvert friends. This is NOT high school, and your friends are NOT your whole life. Good friends acknowledge each other's needs/limits and are supportive, not disparaging. I'm not saying you should dump these friends, just find a way to make them less important, so these thoughtless remarks carry less weight with you.

On your relationship with Jane, it sounds like she's a good friend for going out to hear music with, but she's not a good friend for confiding in. It's just not working out well for you two in that way. You don't have to dump her, but you should consider putting some limits on yourself with her.
posted by Sprout the Vulgarian at 8:21 AM on July 26, 2006

Why are you giving us so much background situation on people we don't care about? You have a divorced friend who seems infatuated with the typical popular guy who's very handsome and macho. This crush may have motivated her to tell you about a comment the man made about your introverted husband, who you seem to only describe in loser-ish terms.

It sounds like the issue is really with you. These people came into your life with their cool life and pretty packages, and now you feel like a schlub. Maybe you used to be a cool kid too and now you're blaming your husband for dorkifying your life. But jesus, your friend took your complaints as real frustration and not just venting, and insulted you and your husband. Tell her it hurt your feelings and that it made you realise you weren't giving your husband a fair shake. And don't indulge in their high school attitude, though it sounds like you want to. Leave the drama and the overlong explanations to the gossips.
posted by lychee at 9:48 AM on July 26, 2006 [1 favorite]

Thank you all for your comments. Even the insulting ones. Wow, I sound like a fishwife? That's not good!

I don't know why I gave so much information. I wasn't thinking straight, and it was late. Every comment has allowed me to gain insight. Thanks again, it's much appreciated.
posted by LoriFLA at 10:11 AM on July 26, 2006

Just my experience, but I've found that it's sometimes difficult for me to spend time with my friends that aren't married and/or have different lifestyles than I do. Once in a while get togethers are fabulous fun, but as far as deep friendships, I have to guard myself with these people.

Jane sounds like she's a great girl, lots of fun to hang out with and as you said "girls' night out" material-but it seems to me she wants to make it more than that, where it's couples night except Lori's husband should stay home with the kids.

Maybe when you're frustrated or just discussing things about your relationship you could try to do that with someone else that has more of your lifestyle than she does. She can still be your good time goin out buddy, but for a deep relationship, I'd probably go to someone else.

And John sounds like a prime asshole to me.

(btw, my husband is an introvert and prefers to stay home rather than go out, all of our friends (our separate ones too) would rather hang out and play cards or cook out by the pool than leave him out)
posted by hollygoheavy at 6:13 PM on July 26, 2006