How can I make her see that there's no chance for a romantic relationship between us without making a mess of things?

July 23, 2006 1:10 PM

SeriouslyLetsJustBeFriendsFilter: How can I make her see that there's no chance for a romantic relationship between us without making a mess of things? Details inside.

Some time ago I met a girl who seemed like (and is) a lot of fun. After hanging out a few times (some times alone, and some with a group of my friends), when it seemed it was time to either make something happen or draw a line, I tried to make something happen. She drew a line. We talked it over and decided that though we both thought the other was cute and we'd been having a good time together, that we still didn't know each other very well and it would be best not to let what could be a two month crush ruin what could be a very good friendship -- we were getting along very well, and by this time my friends had started to like hanging out with her too (going out without me and such).

Three weeks ago we had a conversation in which I very clearly stated that while we were still having a good time together, I thought a romantic relationship between us could not work for a variety of reasons. Among these, that a number of her personal idiosyncracies which both experience and Hollywood would have me belive that someone who liked her would find 'cute' or 'endearing' I find irritating. These and other, more fundamental, incompatibilites were candidly dicsussed. While she said that she thought she hadn't gotten to know me well enough to make that decision, she consented that it was no longer her decision to make and seemed to agree that while we could, and should, still be friends it would have to be without the addendum, "... until we becomre more than friends," that had heretofore been lingering afterward.

We still see each other pretty frequently (1-3 times a week but never just the two of us) and talk almost daily. I tend to keep a close relationship with a small number of friends (who are all in the same tight-knit group), so in this regard, it's no different from my relationship with any of my other friends, male or female

It's become clear, though, that while my crush has dissipated, hers has only increased in strength and that she is having a difficult time adjusting to our 'new' friendship. In a vaccuum, it's getting to the point where I would just as soon stop hanging out with her altogether than to continue to deal with this unwanted behavior and with the idiosyncracies which grow more irritating by the day because of my fixation on the situation and because so much of her social energy is being directed toward me. However since we all get together so regularly, a hard end to our friendship would put everybody else (who have all been inviting her along to all our get-togethers) in an uncomfortable position. Her flirtatious attempts to 'win me over' have become so apparent, though, that my friends have been asking me if I had told her how I feel or not, and telling me that it's painful to watch her act the way she does knowing how I feel.

On top of saying so explicitly (above), I have tried everything I can to tell her how I feel. When I try being obviously anti-flirtatious (not maintaing eye contact, inviting other people into conversations, pulling away quickly and apologizing for accidental bumps of feet, arms etc), she seems to think I'm being 'coy'. When I invite other people along to things she's invited me to assuming it would be just the two of us, she seems to think I'm trying to be 'inclusive'. When I am being downright rude (ignoring phone calls when she must know I'm home, changing seats after she's sat down next to me in a movie theater, declining her invitation to events and then showing up anyway with other friends), I don't know what she thinks, but it doesn't seem to bother her.

What can I do or say to reinforce my stance on the bounds of our relationship without destroying our friendship? I'm amenable to a temporary shake up (for example, I bring another girl to a get-together and obviously flirt with her and we don't talk for a month; everyone's uncomfortable for a while, but soon we're all hanging out again), but I'm having a difficult time determining where the sweet spot is between her not getting the picture and hiring a hitman to kill me in my sleep; it seems to be significantly farther out than it ought to be for an adult human person of her (otherwise apparant) maturity and intelligence.

posted by ThePants to human relations (19 comments total)

Maybe point her in the direction of the book "He's just not that into you"?
posted by k8t at 1:19 PM on July 23, 2006

However since we all get together so regularly, a hard end to our friendship would put everybody else (who have all been inviting her along to all our get-togethers) in an uncomfortable position.

This is their problem, not yours. If you want to continue to be friends with her, it's pretty important to frame your current relationship as "we are just friends now and forever" this may mean going without some of the "we are friends who might become more than friends" benefits that you get by having a sort of flirtatiously charged relationship and one "special friend" even if they're not someone you plan to hook up with.

If she has independent friendships with your group of friends then they can continue to invite her to things. You need to be crystal clear in word as well as in deed. The message being: "I am looking for a much less exclusive friendship with you because I am not that into you and would like to have the time and freedom to meet/see/get involved with other people."

This also needs consistent reinforcement where her strange commentary on your coyness and/or inclusivity are explained in specific terms. You may find that you can't keep her from behaving that way that makes you uncomfortable after asking nicely and so forth and then at that point you need to figure out what to do next. Cold shoulder? Being totally rude ["look you're turning into sort of a creepy stalker, I can't be friends with you if I think that you constantly want to be more than friends"]? Enlisting another person as a foil, or having them have a talk with her?

It seems that your job right now is to stay on message

- I changed my mind about wanting to be involved with you some time ago
- I am not interested in having a closer relationship with you than I already have
- your continued attentions are making me and our friends uncomfortable
- I won't want to continue to be with you at all if you keep acting this way.
posted by jessamyn at 1:35 PM on July 23, 2006 [1 favorite]

jessamyn's answer is excellent. Stay on task. This may not be you but for me sometimes I forget the task, or stop thinking so much when I'm having fun with friends. If you do this too just recognize that and know you need to give her the space to comprehend your message. Don't talk every day for a while until you know she understands. Maybe not hang out so much with this group of friends. I'm not saying ditch everyone and everything you do, but make sure your actions aren't giving her anything to suggest otherwise.
posted by dog food sugar at 1:55 PM on July 23, 2006

There's really nothing you can do to convince someone who's really into you that you want to spend time with them but don't have romantic feelings for them. And I say this as a guy who's spending the summer getting over a woman who told me twenty times "don't fall for me", "I don't want to disappoint you", "I like you but I don't love you", "you're my fourth priority", &c., and whose actions were as clear as her words - but as long as she also said "sure, I want to see you, or I wouldn't be here" I let myself believe that the rest was just her denying her deep but inconvenient feelings for me. And I was the one wearing an "I'm just not that into you" tee-shirt the night we met!

If you like this woman at all then, just out of kindness, ease her out of your group of friends and stop seeing her.
posted by nicwolff at 2:18 PM on July 23, 2006

You really probably should disengage for a couple of weeks, even if that means not seeing your other friends as much. It's not fair, but she's making an ass out of you as much as she is herself, as evidenced by your friends obliquely asking you why you haven't adequately put your foot down. Somebody has to give, and she's not going to because she's not going to pass up an opportunity to see you. If she continues to be annoying about it in your absence, she gets to be the bad guy instead of you.

Ideally, this will give her enough space to come down out of crazy orbit, realize she's made a real dork out of herself in front of everyone, and she will either stick around and settle down or she'll take her hat and go.

I think you already know that the two of you really aren't going to be great friends after this; why would you want to be friends with someone who can't respect your feelings? You should place a higher priority on your relationship with the rest of the group, as far as damage control goes.
posted by Lyn Never at 2:32 PM on July 23, 2006

The most important thing here is to be completely consistent in your stand-offishness with her. If even once in a year's time you get drunk and flirt with her, or lead her on in any way, or try to 'spare her feelings' by not being honest with her, it will re-set the situation and undo all of your 'get over me' work. If you slip even once, she might think you are still conflicted or afraid of commitment or any of those things women tell themselves when they have nothing else to wrest them away from the object of their infatuation. Be -consistently- distant and uninterested, and within a couple months she'll have found a new person to be interested in. Don't get sucked into any more conversations about your 'relationship.' Don't feed her analytical fire, don't allow any room for speculation on her part, and those flames will be put out.

It's all about how much you are feeding her personal drama. On some level, some girls enjoy the angst, the drama, the game of getting a guy to like them. Try not to be around her, don't get sucked into conversations with her, and for godsakes don't touch her, dance with her, invite her anywhere, or compliment her appearance. It'll be kinder to her in the long run, and she'll find someone who actually digs her, no doubt about it.
posted by np312 at 3:10 PM on July 23, 2006

spend as much time with her as possible, then she won't see you as this something fleeting that she needs to get a hold of. if you make yourself available, a lot, she will get sick of your company sooner than you think.

the more you avoid her, the more she's going to want you.

i'm not saying you shuold get involved physically, intimately or emotionally but just the constant exposure to you will bring you down from that pedestal she's currently got you on. the more she sees you the more likely she is to take your companionship for granted and then it's all downhill from there.

the alternative is...being rude to her, telling her not to bother you with her emotions anymore. she has feelings for you that she doesn't have control over, that's why it's emotion and not rational. if it was as simple as "not loving you anymore" then i'm sure she would've done it by now.

you can tell her as much as you want that you don't "like ker like that", but the heart wants what the heart wants.

this can totally be resolved amicably if the "decision" not to have feelings for you anymore is hers and not you telling her not to love you.

i'm sure you've been in a similar situation yourself before. give the girl a break and be patient. and patient doesn't mean today, tomorrow or next week. it might take some time.

the other alternative is to stop talking to her completely and forever.
posted by eatcake at 3:20 PM on July 23, 2006

I also agree with jessamyn's straight-forward approach, though you can stop short of the "I don't want to continue seeing you if..." part if it seems too much. The strongest message she listed is, "Your continued attentions are making me and our friends uncomfortable." Once your pursuer hears this, she should feel mortified. If not, then bring out jessamyn's statement number 4.

The woman might get defensive, or turn it around on you in some way. If she says anything other than "I didn't mean to make you feel uncomfortable," then just say nothing.

If it turns ugly, it won't have been your fault.
posted by wryly at 3:20 PM on July 23, 2006

Surely she would get the hint if you started dating someone else.
posted by kindall at 3:54 PM on July 23, 2006

Kindall has a good idea. Brag about scoring with someone else, that says friend like none other.
posted by geoff. at 4:12 PM on July 23, 2006

I don't think the problem is with her. You have the "When Harry Met Sally Syndrome" -- a man and a woman can't simply be friends. To paraphrase the Billy Crystal character in the film, one always wants to shag the other.
posted by partner at 5:10 PM on July 23, 2006

I kinda like eatcake's idea. Stay on message, don't flirt with her or anything, but don't push her away either. Giving her credit for being an intelligent human being, she'll eventually realize that she just wanted you because she coldn't have you. Don't do anything dramatic, and the whole thing will resolve in a couple weeks. It'll remain uncomfortable for the intervening time, of course, but just stay the course. Don't do anything dramatic, don't lead her on, but don't push her away either. Y'all have human-human interactions as well as man-woman interaction, so just focus on the human to human angle of your friendship until you both get comfortable with the new situation.
posted by Mr. Gunn at 6:27 PM on July 23, 2006

In reading over your suggestions, I realize that I haven't been nearly as consistently clear as I thought I've been, and what kind of problem that's probably causing. Stay on message. Always. Even when otherwise having fun.

jessamyn: Enlisting another person as a foil, or having them have a talk with her?
This was a consideration. One of my female friends had previously asked about my relationship with the girl I'm asking this question about and correctly encouraged me to share my feelings sooner rather than later if I was feeling at all against a relationship with her, because of the fliratious behavior, etc.

np312: for godsakes don't ... dance with her,
This will be especially difficult since we both go weekly to the same very small dance night at a local bar/lounge. Probably time to switch clubs for a few weeks.

np312: Don't get sucked into any more conversations about your 'relationship.'
It does certainly seem that at this point talking is off the table as an effective avenue of communication.

eatcake: spend as much time with her as possible
This immediately raises a red flag to me. I don't think this will turn out to be fleeting enough of an ambition that simply outlasting it is a reasonable strategem. Time is what she's looking for, in order to bring me around, using her feminine wiles, or whatever.

wryly: The strongest message [jessamyn] listed is, "Your continued attentions are making me and our friends uncomfortable." Once your pursuer hears this, she should feel mortified.
I agree completely. Is this a stronger message coming from some of our uncomfortable friends?

geoff: Brag about scoring with someone else, that says friend like none other.
If only there were something to brag about...
posted by ThePants at 8:14 PM on July 23, 2006

This is what friends are for. You should ask your friends to intervene on your behalf. She might not listen to you but she may listen to the group. After all this is a problem that affects the whole group. Ask some friends, both male and female, to talk with her and let her know that she has to stop.

If that doesn't work then you could always try making a scene. Let yourself get angry at her in public and tell her, loudly and firmly, that you don't like her. This is harsh, but yeah, sometimes harsh is needed.
posted by nixerman at 9:05 PM on July 23, 2006

A lot of good advice in this thread. Gentle but firm honesty is the best policy here.

partner wrote: . . . . You have the "When Harry Met Sally Syndrome" -- a man and a woman can't simply be friends. To paraphrase the Billy Crystal character in the film, one always wants to shag the other.

This is not true.
posted by D.C. at 1:00 AM on July 24, 2006

Anecdotal: I used to have a huge crush on a coworker. He had a girlfriend, and was basically totally unavailable, but he still flirted with me incessantly, every day. He drove me insane, and made me feel angsty and dramatic all the time. We sat only feet away from each other on an open floor, but over intraoffice IM, we discussed things that were VERY NSFW up to and including my preferences in the bedroom (now that I think about it, we never discussed his, for some reason -- I think maybe mine are more, er, interesting?) .

This went on and on. I knew I couldn't have him but I let myself believe that if I just waited long enough, some opportunity would present itself. Eventually though, my intense feelings for him just sort of ... dissipated. Part of it was that he continued to be unavailable. Part of it was that the more I got to know him, the lower the pedestal I had him on became. At a certain point I just started to feel silly, like a teenager, because I was creating all this drama.

What's funny is his behavior toward me never changed. He's now one of my best friends, and still flirts with me all the damn time. Only now, I know it's just his style, and it's harmless fun for both of us.

Three weeks is not a scarily long time for her to still be acting a fool, thinking she could still win you over. She may just need some time to cool off and adjust. I agree it would probably be a good idea for you to be careful about leading her on -- don't flirt, don't dance, etc -- and you should certainly keep a firm stance on the issue if she tries to suck you into a conversation about your "relationship" again, but I'm willing to bet this may go away without too much effort, and you may even get to remain friends. I speak as a young woman who has been in her shoes a few times. YMMV.

In the vein of more concrete advice, I agree that bringing a date will send the right message. But to really make this work for you, don't ignore your friend -- introduce her as your friend, and then pull her aside at some point for just a moment and ask her advice or opinon regarding the date. Nothing says "You're just like a sister to me!" than asking things like "What did she say about me when I was in the bathroom? How's my breath? Do you think she's having a good time? It's our third date, you know what that means... High five, dude!"
posted by Famous at 4:29 AM on July 24, 2006 [2 favorites]

All of the hints that you have given her that you consider to be "obvious" are just passsive (or passive-aggressive), evasive, and probably confusing to both her and some of your other friends.

This is the sort of thing that drives women totally insane once they figure out what you are trying to do. Because if up untl now you have established that you are capable of deep, intelligent, honest communication, then a precedent has been set by which she expects that your problems will be resolved and feelings communicated this way in the future as well. In the meantime, any inconsistencies in your behaviour can and will be rationalized away by her, considering that you have had no problem speaking your mind in the past. Hence your "hints" probably confuse, intrigue, or frustrate her, but they don't say anything at all.

So why not just live up to the precedent you set before and just speak candidly about your friendship issues? Or, now that you've established that you're not interested in her romantically whatsoever, is she not really worth the work anymore? All I can say is that I tend to be grossed out by people telling someone that everything's fine, that they can still be close friends, all the while smiling and inching very slowly away until they are out of range.
posted by hermitosis at 7:31 AM on July 24, 2006

Having seen a couple of friends go through this, what finally got them over the asymetrical crushes was actually dating each other for about a month. She got sick of all the things she thought she'd like about him, and now they're good friends again.
Maybe not applicable advice in your position, but hey, it worked.
posted by klangklangston at 12:36 PM on July 24, 2006

Stay on message and remind yourself: this is her problem, not yours. So long as you're courteous and consistent in what you're saying (not leading her on) you have nothing to feel bad about if she can't adjust. Or: what jess said.
posted by phearlez at 4:23 PM on July 24, 2006