How can I help my underachieving older brother?

July 10, 2006 5:32 AM

How can I help my underachieving older brother?

My older brother is in his early-to-mid twenties and a big underachiever. He's not doing anything productive with his life now -- he doesn't work; he just lives off my parents' money.

He was a child prodigy until he started rebelling in his early teens. Nowadays he doesn't rebel or use drugs anymore, but is not doing anything constructive, professionally or socially. He spends all his time in his apartment with his arcane intellectual hobbies. He also has kept the same stagnant, dysfunctional friendships for a long time. This behavior seems to result from some combination of low self esteem and lack of motivation.

I've tried my best to be a positive influence, and have on multiple occasions attempted to inspire him with motivational speeches about what he could do with his life. He acts interested, but the next day is back where he was before.

I really care for him but am discouraged that all my attempts to help him so far have been futile.

Any ideas on what I could do, or on who would be able to help in this situation?

posted by anonymous to human relations (25 comments total)

Not to pry, but do your parents have enough cash that he has the option of sponging off them forever? If so, it might be really hard to convince him that he really needs to do anything.

I'm also curious about his "arcane intellectual hobbies." Could it be that your brother really is following his bliss and it just happens to be that his idea of a productive life and yours diverge quite a bit? He doesn't spend most of his time drinking, stoned, or playing PS2, right?

If you've already given him the big speech about how he ought to get his life together (i.e. be a lot more like you), then I doubt giving it again will help. In fact, I think he'll only resent you for it. I'd say you just have to lead by example and understand that he's a grown up and gets to make his own choices, even if you don't agree with them.
posted by wheat at 5:50 AM on July 10, 2006

I can't give any specific advice, but I'm not sure that this is quite as serious of a problem as you seem to believe. Lack of direction in the mid-twenties is pretty standard, much like rebellion in teens is. It's often called a quarter-life crisis.

And I wish you had been more specific about what you meant by "arcane intellectual hobbies"? Do you talk down about his interests when you're trying to motivate him, too? Plenty of hobbies can become legitimate (if not necessarily lucrative) jobs.
posted by Plutor at 5:54 AM on July 10, 2006

I agree with Wheat, lead by example. Perhaps look at his "arcane" hobbies, and see if there is some manner for him to pursue them as a career, or at the worse, as a means to supplement his income from your parents. If he's going to accomplish anything in life, it'll have to be because he wants to. So examine his hobbies, see if there is some way that you can take his love for a pastime and translate it into a job that he'll love doing every day.
posted by Atreides at 5:55 AM on July 10, 2006

It's incredibly common for gifted children to go through a difficult rebellious phase as teens and then turn out to be great big fat underachievers as adults. Often it's linked with perfectionism and anxiety. I'd long suspected as much, just based on observation and personal experience, but I read this Wikipedia entry on giftedness recently and was blown away to see verified it in print. I hate to repeat the Mefi Therapy Mantra, but seriously - this sort of thing is exactly what cognitive behavioural therapy is for.
posted by hot soup girl at 6:38 AM on July 10, 2006

What does he want out of life? Trying to make him more like you, as good and successful as you may be, simply isn't going to work. Looking at what he's interested in is the only way to go.

If he can afford to keep living off your parents' money (and if they don't mind) then the financial inducement to go to work isn't there, and you're left with getting him to do something he's interested in. He has loads of options and is lucky in this respect.
posted by altolinguistic at 6:53 AM on July 10, 2006

I just have one question: Is your brother happy? If so, then there's nothing that will change his way of life. If you really want to light a fire under his ass just to see what will happen, then convince your parents to stop subsidizing him. But otherwise, to be quite frank, you're coming off sounding like a real jerk. You're dismissive of his hobbies, and upset because he doesn't live the same way you do. Is it the money that's upsetting you? What's the real problem here?
posted by Faint of Butt at 7:04 AM on July 10, 2006

You may not realize it, but being successful & upstanding as a student is easy (if you're "that type", which it seems you both are), finding a decent job is absolute hell. I don't know where you live, either, but here in Michigan if he wants to be making some money doing anything but Burger King, he's going to be competing against people with 10 years of experience who are applying for entry-level jobs, because that's the market.

And if he's not getting a job, I don't know how much he's able to sponge off your parents, but making friends outside of a school situation is a lot harder than making friends inside it, especially when you live with your parents and have limited money and "arcane intellectual hobbies".


So, yeah, you're right to think that this guy shouldn't be sponging off your folks indefinitely, and all that, but you're also being a little to harsh.
posted by dagnyscott at 7:05 AM on July 10, 2006

he doesn't work; he just lives off my parents' money. [...] He spends all his time in his apartment

Wait a minute. He doesn't work, but he has his own apartment? It seems like your parents are okay with where he's at in life if they're supporting him to that extent. If he's happy, and they aren't bothered, why would anything change?

[I] have on multiple occasions attempted to inspire him with motivational speeches about what he could do with his life.

Stop lecturing him. Lectures aren't inspiring. Even less so coming from a younger sibling who is in high school or maybe college.
posted by raedyn at 7:30 AM on July 10, 2006

You say he doesn't use drugs anymore. Are you sure? The early 20s, underachieving, lack of motivation, sounds like possible signs of a regular marijuana user. In my experience, marijuana users aren't generally destructive, but they often (not always) have a higher level of inertia. This can be overcome by lessening the drug use. If this is what's going on with your brother, I don't know if there's anything you can do to change it. If he's happy, what's the problem?
posted by raedyn at 7:35 AM on July 10, 2006

Get him out of the country. Particularly for intelligent persons who fall in a rut, a drastic change in their environment and lifestyle is enough to stimulate them and get them moving again. You can't give your brother (or anybody else) self-confidence or motivation. No amount of words will be enough to get these across. Stop the motivational speeches because they don't work and, worse, they tend to produce an insidious sort of Kantian guilt that only reinforces the behavior. Your best bet is to get him into a situation where he's forced to develop these qualities. The more drastic the change the better. Get him into the PeaceCorp if you can. But you might have to start small. A weekend in the woods, a few nights at sea, a visit to another city, marathon biking, that sort of thing. Heck, if you can get him to work out with you, say running a couple of miles three times a week, that can be just the leverage.
posted by nixerman at 7:42 AM on July 10, 2006

As an underachiever in a very similar stage of his life, all I can really offer is my point of view. However, my little brother's seemingly benevolent attempts to talk to me have made him come across as an arrogant twat.

I agree with nixerman and would also suggest a good girlfriend. If, like mine, your brother's social life is sparse to nonexistant, finding some like-minded people and a crazy girl will probably motivate him somewhat. My happiest and most productive times have usually involved some girl.

Most frustatingly for you will probably be the realization that he's going to have to light the fire under his ass himself. If your actions are much more than the gentlest of indirect guidance, he's probably going to resent you for being a manipulative, moralizing cunt. Or that could just be me...
posted by polyhedron at 8:08 AM on July 10, 2006

This behavior seems to result from some combination of low self esteem and lack of motivation.

Is that what he attributes his behavior to? My guess is that he has another explanation...maybe there's something going on that he hasn't been able to share with you, maybe there's something going on that he hasn't come to fully understand himself.

I was a gifted youngster who went through a ten-year period of apathy and unconstructive activities. Something really painful and difficult happened in my life to switch me from achieve mode to underachieve mode. My family never asked why I changed, they never examined the timing of the switch...they just lambasted me for not achieving more. I really wish someone had stopped lecturing and started asking.

I have no idea if the same switch in your approach would help your brother, but it's worth a try! Siblings tend to respond poorly to lectures -- I'm surprised to even hear that your brother "acts interested." Try asking more, listening more, and lecturing less. Only once you understand what's really going on for him can you hope to help.
posted by equipoise at 8:20 AM on July 10, 2006

P.S. -- Where does that low self-esteem of his come from? What can you do to help rebuild it? Lectures that focus on how unsuccessful he's been so far don't seem like they'd help him build the confidence he needs to excel.
posted by equipoise at 8:22 AM on July 10, 2006

Holy crap. This is one of the most unintentionally condescending posts I've ever read on AskMe.

"My brother sucks big time. I try to give him pep talks about how awesome I am and how he can be awesome like me too, but he doesn't listen! Whyever would that be?!"

If I were your older brother, every time you spoke a word to me about "success" and "motivation" and tried to "inspire" me, I would be seething with rage. Bad enough when any sibling does it, but the younger one having the audacity to lecture you? When the younger one can't be more than in his/her early twenties, judging from your brother's age?

Dude, first of all, quit your stupid motivational speeches. Quit judging his life. I'm not saying that living off of one's parents money and doing nothing with your life is a great life choice, but right now it's probably the last thing he wants or needs to hear. Your brother has been told his entire life that his self-worth is based on his intelligence and success with that intelligence--you describe him as a "child prodigy". When you lecture him, you only reinforce that viewpoint. Your brother will never be truly happy and successful until he can see himself as a worthwhile person in his own right, not as a dancing monkey who's only good for getting good grades and a good salary. You say he's not rebelling--I say by doing nothing that is exactly what he's doing. He's so sick of people telling him he should be successful and he should be a genius that he's decided to tell everyone to go fuck themselves and do nothing. Spiteful, yes, but you certainly aren't going to get him out of that rut by lecturing him.

Get involved in your brother's "arcane" intellectual hobbies (Jesus, you even sound condescending about the things he likes to involve himself in). Find out what he likes doing and why he likes doing it, and then do those things with him. Talk with him about what's going on with his life, how he's feeling, crap like that. Establish a normal freakin' relationship, one devoid of lectures and "motivational" speeches.

Your brother does not sound like a happy person. He sounds like my older brother, an intelligent, creative guy that had his self-esteem crushed by overbearing family members who gave him the impression he was only a good person if he got good grades. My older brother only became a happy person once he started doing what he liked to do (art) instead of what my mom wanted him to do (math and science), got out of the house, away from everyone in our family, and built his own life and friendships. And he got a good girlfriend.
posted by schroedinger at 9:47 AM on July 10, 2006 [7 favorites]

And, BTW, accomplishing something with his life does not necessarily equate to getting a job.
posted by Thorzdad at 9:57 AM on July 10, 2006

I have been in a similar situation to the poster, with both and older and younger sibling. I have always chosen--to the chagrin of my parents--to not lecture or "encourage" them at all, but just to be a good brother and good friend.

Now, both my sisters are doing great. While I can't (and don't want to) take any credit for their getting "on the right track" I can tell that I am the only one they really believe when I say I'm proud of them, and I know they value my judgment when they ask for my opinion on other stuff.

You aren't his parent. He's got some of those. It sounds like maybe he could use a sister/brother.
posted by Ignatius J. Reilly at 10:59 AM on July 10, 2006

I second schroedinger's comment so much so, I flagged it as a favourite.
posted by jeversol at 12:23 PM on July 10, 2006

I agree with others that you may be unintentionally doing more harm than good. Yes, he should have a job at least. But in a few years you'll know how he feels, even if you do have a college degree and a promising job. I think there's some part of that post-school stagnant/confused feeling that is universal. Especially for us Millenials, who've been indoctrinated that good grades = good person.

A job helps. Almost any job. But he has to come to that conclusion himself. Really, though, the no-job thing is the only thing that sounds particularly problematic in your description of his life. (And others are correct that it's your parents' choice to support him). Everyone has different hobbies. Everyone holds on to old, dysfunctional relationships. Almost everyone finds it hard to make new friends.

Just do you. Do what makes you happy. Be a good brother or sister. Hang out with him like you would anyway. If nothing else, you can be a non-disfunctional relationship in his life. Be there for him, but the rest is up to him.
posted by lampoil at 2:18 PM on July 10, 2006

Why is this even anonymous? Does your brother read Mefi?

Simple. Get involved. Start being his brother and quit Lecturing him.

Ask him what he wants. Ask him if he thinks your parents money will last forever. Stop trying to solve his problems for him and engage with him as a concerned sibling.

Most of all, quit behaving as if he's a "special child" and start behaving as if he's an adult.
posted by filmgeek at 4:21 PM on July 10, 2006

Well, it turns out that there's actually quite a bit to be said in favor of Doing Nothing.

In fact, some people find it very, very difficult to do nothing, to the point that someone went to some effort to offer up plans on how to do nothing.
posted by smallerdemon at 4:39 PM on July 10, 2006

I also thought that you sounded like a condescending brat in the question. Here's how it came across:

Your older brother is really smart. He's living at home, he doesn't have a job but he doesn't need one because your parents support him well, and he spends all his time doing stuff you don't understand. How do we know what your measure of 'productive' is? He could be inventing Linux, researching some weird maths problem, or something.

He never goes out or sees people except the friends he's had for ages, but you don't like them so they don't count: therefore he has no social life.

You're the good kid, and so you know what he should be doing and tell him so, but it hasn't helped?

I am also surprised that he even acts interested.
posted by jacalata at 5:56 PM on July 10, 2006

As a burnt-out child prodigy with a shiny younger brother, I've got to say you're lucky you aren't suffering from a case of advanced fistmarks.

Your brother is being kind by humouring your motivational speeches. Just love him and hang out with him, and maybe find out what he's building in there. What you call arcane hobbies might be something he could really enjoy sharing with you if he felt safe doing so.

Also, if I may point this out, your definition of constructive may not be his, and may not really be very objective, especially if it is based on an incomplete understanding of what he actually is doing. For all you know, he wrote a book, and the first you'll hear about it is when you get a signed copy in the mail.
posted by Sallyfur at 7:12 PM on July 10, 2006

My brother was very unhappy with his life, quitting college 5 times even tho he was making As and never sticking with a job. He has a long history of major panic attacks and paranoia and has been very afraid of people. This is a different situation, yes, but interesting in that he just happened to find the right thing for HIS personality. He is now a successful massage therapist (which he started pursuing around the somewhat late age of 32) with his own business. The reason he is so good at this and loves it is that it's totally win-win. People don't look down upon him, but are thankful for him. He only gets positive feedback and doesn't have to answer to a boss. He's created a nice reality that allows him to function fully and happily in the world. We all have quirks and issues of various types and degrees, we just have to find something that makes us feel at home with ourselves. I think the best way to help is just point out things he's good at as you notice them, but don't speak down to him.
posted by smartypanties at 7:47 PM on July 10, 2006

He's not doing anything productive with his life now -- he doesn't work; he just lives off my parents' money.

You know what? If I had rich parents, I wouldn't work either! Work sucks like the proverbial Hoover!

He spends all his time in his apartment with his arcane intellectual hobbies. He also has kept the same stagnant, dysfunctional friendships for a long time.

He is, at this point, a grown man. If he wants to change, he will. If he doesn't, he won't. Simple as that. It's his perogative.

I would ditch the speeches, too. Take it from a former political activist: unless people have internalized you as a source of moral authority, they don't want to hear sermons and lectures from you.

Be warm. Be loving. Be supportive. That's really all you can do for now.
posted by jason's_planet at 10:22 PM on July 10, 2006 [1 favorite]

I am the older brother (er, metaphorically speaking, that is - unless...? No, I don't have my own apartment). Introvert, went to a top school at fifteen and now, eight years later, have not even finished (stopped short within reaching distance). Live at home, sponging off my parents, reading Metafilter. Isolating myself. Have a younger sibling going to the same school who is to all appearances much better adjusted than I am.

At some point I might want to AskMe about my own situation, as I am certainly not happy with it, but I'll try to express what I'd want from my younger sister.

I'd want support. Lectures are uncomfortable and embittering, but conversations are welcome. Personal success-- a good example-- is also good. This isn't to say that it won't breed jealousy, but it is without a doubt more encouraging to be close to someone successful and happy, especially when they still have time for you. If he doesn't get out much, invite him out. You should have some idea of what he likes to do for fun.

Fact is, I don't know what, if anything, you could do to get the results you want. I'm just telling you what I'd want. So, talk more, and don't lose hope or lose touch. Keep some respect, too, because nothing will kill a relationship faster than contempt.
posted by alexei at 3:35 AM on July 15, 2006