Do Jew Tattoo?

June 27, 2006 12:28 PM

Ok, I'm self-admittedly jumping the shark here. I'd like to get a tattoo. I'd like it to mean 'will'. Like the type of will it takes to pedal one's ass up to the top of a mountain on a 100-degree day. Or the will it takes to climb canyons in 35-degree weather. You know the drill.

Its probably going on my my right calf. Something in a foreign language-Possibly Thai, Chinese, Japanese,whatever. If anyone has ideas that can trump will, lets hear them. Bonus points for links to the actual images/writing in the foreign language. I dont want to leaev it up to tattoo artist because he'll probably write 'Stupid Utah Boy' in Chinese on my leg. I've read the stories :)

On a side note: Is this still a bad move for a Nice Jewish Boy?

posted by neilkod to grab bag (58 comments total)

Someone will probably point you to Hanzi Smatter but he has a policy of not helping people that want a tattoo in a foreign language because it cheapens the language. I agree with him. Also, the chinese symbol tattoo is totally beaten to death, dude.
posted by puke & cry at 12:31 PM on June 27, 2006

Thanks p&c I was thinking Chinese is beat to death. I think Thai looks cool also. I'm also open to suggestions! Hell, even Greek/Hebrew!
posted by neilkod at 12:33 PM on June 27, 2006

I agree about the foreign language tattoos. Take something from your own culture, something that means something to you. Don't get a foreign language character just because it looks cool.

Is this still a bad move for a Nice Jewish Boy?

Depends on how Jewish you are. If you are just culturally jewish, but don't believe in the religion, it is probably no big deal. If are even slightly religious or you plan to be buried in a Jewish cemetery when you die, you probably should not get one.
posted by necessitas at 12:37 PM on June 27, 2006

Out of curiousity, why not just get a tat that says 'Will', or more logically, 'Triumph of the will' in English?

If you want an interesting language, how about Elvish or Klingon?
posted by haqspan at 12:38 PM on June 27, 2006

Have you thought about English, or using traditional symbols that have more meaning to you, personally? You can think about foreign written languages as being more exotic or artistic, but in the end you're just spelling out a word or concept. If you're a nice Jewish Boy with even a hint of traditionalism, go with Hebrew.

If language options suck, why not go with a picture of a mountain or canyon? If you feel you can overcome a canyon or mountain, let the land leave its mark on you.
posted by mikeh at 12:38 PM on June 27, 2006

why not just get a tat that says 'Will'

Probably because his name isn't will. And neither is his lover's.
posted by rxrfrx at 12:39 PM on June 27, 2006

Is this still a bad move for a Nice Jewish Boy?

Maybe. Technically it's forbidden by Jewish law, but apparently the inability to be buried in a Jewish cemetery is a myth.

But many older Jews may look askance of it because of the symbolism of the Holocaust. Whether this is something you want to deal with or not is your decision.

Interesting article here.
posted by fuzzbean at 12:39 PM on June 27, 2006

By a hint of traditionalism, I meant respect for the language/culture, obviously not for the religious significance since tattoos are frowned upon. Sorry if that came off badly...
posted by mikeh at 12:39 PM on June 27, 2006

If you don't know the foreign language, don't get it tattooed on your body. You'll just look stupid, like everybody else with a foreign language tattoo that they can't read. (If you read hebrew, then maybe do that.) You should be looking for imagery that conveys "will" rather than something that just says it.

Isn't your body a temple which is not to be violated? What are you doing getting tattooed?
posted by beerbajay at 12:40 PM on June 27, 2006

Sisu.
posted by Wolfdog at 12:40 PM on June 27, 2006

I don't know Hebrew but I would think that a Hebrew character or word would be cool.

Or something from Jewish mythology.
posted by radioamy at 12:40 PM on June 27, 2006

The not being buried in a Jewish cemetery thing is a myth. While the torah technically forbids tattooing, it does not forbid the tattooed from being properly buried. Many Jews get tattooed these days, and only the extremely Orthodox are going to take issue with it.
posted by RoseovSharon at 12:45 PM on June 27, 2006

I actually called the Jewish cemetery where my family is buried and owns plots when I was considering getting a tattoo. They said it wasn't a problem. YMMV.
posted by amro at 12:46 PM on June 27, 2006

The not being buried in a Jewish cemetery thing is a myth.

Oops, sorry about that!

Or something from Jewish mythology.

Like a nice poppy seed hamentashen!
posted by necessitas at 12:48 PM on June 27, 2006

Assuming it isn't against your personal beliefs, and doing so isn't terribly offensive to Jewish people in general, why not go with something in Hebrew?

If you want something even more exotic - try looking up a dead language like ancient Sumerian Cuneiform or Aramaic.
posted by b1tr0t at 12:49 PM on June 27, 2006

Ok, so if I go with Hebrew, is there anywhere online that can translate? Yes I know about the mighty Google but I'd rather hear some suggestions instead of browsing through about 12,700,000 results.
posted by neilkod at 12:50 PM on June 27, 2006

Ditto on the asian-characters-make-stupid-tattoos-if-you're-not-asian. What's wrong with Hebrew?
posted by Robot Johnny at 12:52 PM on June 27, 2006

Isn't your body a temple which is not to be violated? What are you doing getting tattooed?

That tattooing or modifying your body is a violation is ALSO a myth. It's your body, do what you want and love with it. No one can tell you how to worship in your "temple" other than yourself.
posted by RoseovSharon at 12:52 PM on June 27, 2006

haqspan writes "more logically, 'Triumph of the will'"

Yeah, that would just be fucking brilliant.
posted by mr_roboto at 12:54 PM on June 27, 2006

"Triumph of the Will"?

Uh.... no, haqspan, just don't go there!

Don't go for an online translation. Find someone who speaks or writes Hebrew and do it that way. Otherwise who knows what you might end up with?
posted by canine epigram at 12:55 PM on June 27, 2006

holy cross-post batman!
posted by canine epigram at 12:55 PM on June 27, 2006

Hieroglyphics? Wil?
posted by kcm at 12:57 PM on June 27, 2006

i agree with what most people are saying here. if you feel that strongly about getting a tattoo that says "will" at least get it in your own language.

i personally plan on getting one in braille, but i can read braille. and its personal to me.
posted by moochoo at 12:59 PM on June 27, 2006

A tattoo of The Fonz jumping the shark would be nicely Meta.

Seriously, look around here for a symbol having to do with will, or persistence, or whatever you are trying to express.
posted by Rumple at 1:05 PM on June 27, 2006

If you want to avoid all these "tattoos are played out, man" criticisms, you're going to really have to go for it. I'm talking a big-time commitment: maybe your entire back or chest. Full color, high-quality, expensive. Own it, man.
posted by mr_roboto at 1:06 PM on June 27, 2006

What about the symbol or character which was supposedly painted on the forehead of the Golem by the Rabbi/Magus?

That would have overtones of indomitable force and a sense of power welling up from the Abyss, for me.
posted by jamjam at 1:09 PM on June 27, 2006

Wow Rumple great link. I found this which happens to be Hebrew-derived and also representative of decisiveness, determination, strong will, and, if they are hurt, vindictiveness. Its also my sign. How freaky!
posted by neilkod at 1:12 PM on June 27, 2006

A concern: I would think the calf wouldn't be a good place to get a tattoo that's meant to be read.
posted by GeekAnimator at 1:15 PM on June 27, 2006

GeekAnimator-You've obviously never set foot in a paceline!
posted by neilkod at 1:19 PM on June 27, 2006

Jamjam, the word written on a golem's head is emet (alef mem tav), where the alef can be erased, forming the word "met" (death) to kill the golem--so that might be kind of creepy for a tattoo, plus it doesn't fit the idea exactly.

Neilkod, if you'd like I can look for some aesthetically pleasing/thematically appropriate Hebrew words when I get home--a few years ago I considered getting a Hebrew tattoo and I should still have some fonts somewhere. My email should be in my profile--let me know.
posted by leesh at 1:22 PM on June 27, 2006

Personally, I'd go for English and use this font.
posted by Mr Stickfigure at 1:26 PM on June 27, 2006

I dont see anything wrong with a foreign langauge tatoo even if the wearer doesnt know the langauge; it could just as easily signify open mindedness and humanism. Nothin' wrong with that.

How about sanskrit? or a dharma wheel?
posted by jak68 at 1:47 PM on June 27, 2006

Seriously dude, there are a lot better cycling-related tattoos than words. Think about all the geeky and iconic gear you own. Think about how dynamic groups of cyclists are. Think about tracks, mountains, or roads stretching off into the distance (whatever your preference). Give these other elements a long hard think as they will almost undoubtably result in a better tattoo. Get a 70's velodrome painting-style tattoo. Something!
posted by beerbajay at 1:48 PM on June 27, 2006

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chakravartin

There are implications of "Will" here; and positive ones.
posted by jak68 at 1:49 PM on June 27, 2006

Here's a pic
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Dharma_wheel.svg
posted by jak68 at 1:50 PM on June 27, 2006

The "wheel" motif also fits in with both cycling and running, as a metaphor.
posted by jak68 at 1:51 PM on June 27, 2006

Could do the a tattoo in honor of "The Little Engine That Could", but that may rank a little low on the manly scale.
posted by Ateo Fiel at 1:51 PM on June 27, 2006

Cyrillic is the wave of the future. Don't get it in Cyrillic.
posted by 517 at 1:54 PM on June 27, 2006

Look through tarot decks at all their "Ace of Wands" cards. This will encapsulate your meaning perfectly, and may offer more beautiful or creative designs than simple letters would.

If you don't like the look of the wands, consider having it converted into a torch instead.
posted by hermitosis at 1:59 PM on June 27, 2006

Possibly the best bike-related tattoo ever
posted by adamrice at 2:01 PM on June 27, 2006

You could get "Will" in Elian which would look roughly like:



I could do better, but all I have is a trackpad and Paint right now. :)
posted by unixrat at 2:07 PM on June 27, 2006

neilkod - that symbol you linked to is also so very close to the zodiac symbol for Scorpio, I wouldn't readily know the difference (and thus would just think you are a Scorpio).
posted by MeetMegan at 2:09 PM on June 27, 2006

Oh my I am an idiot. I should have read the whole comment you wrote rather than just the first two sentences. So you are OK with the astrological sign. Oops.
posted by MeetMegan at 2:11 PM on June 27, 2006

Ok, so if I go with Hebrew, is there anywhere online that can translate? Yes I know about the mighty Google but I'd rather hear some suggestions instead of browsing through about 12,700,000 results.

You might check around and see if any of your friends have done, or know people that have done an IDF tour. Even if they don't speak Hebrew fluently, they should know enough to get you started, and can probably tell you waht is cool and what is dorky.
posted by b1tr0t at 2:12 PM on June 27, 2006

posted by neilkod Ok, I'm self-admittedly jumping the shark here. I'd like to get a tattoo.

neilkod, can you tell us why you want a tattoo? You sound as though you've resigned yourself to the fact that getting a tattoo is "jumping the shark"--if you feel that way, why get tattooed? I think if you can answer this question, it might help you decide exactly with what and why you'd like to be forever marked.

If your goal is for other people--cyclists in particular--to see, recognize, and understand its meaning, you might want to reconsider your usage of symbology/cryptography. Personally, if I was cycling behind you, and I spotted a symbol emblazoned on your calf, I would not bother to peruse it or wonder about its meaning. I'd simply assume it had meaning to you, and I'd promptly ignore it.
posted by fandango_matt at 2:34 PM on June 27, 2006 [1 favorite]

neilkod, can you tell us why you want a tattoo? You sound as though you've resigned yourself to the fact that getting a tattoo is "jumping the shark"--if you feel that way, why get tattooed? I think if you can answer this question, it might help you decide exactly with what and why you'd like to be forever marked.


Exactly what I was wondering.

I decided not to get a tattoo for two reasons - the first one being I could never commit to any of the designs I considered, and the second being that EVERYONE gets tattoos. It's actually more prevalent among my friends and family than NOT having one, so I thought I'd refrain from going with the crowd on this one. In 20 years, I will be an anomaly. =)
posted by agregoli at 2:37 PM on June 27, 2006

רצון which is like, desire/will.

(that's in hebrew, btw... you should recognize that as a jewboy!)
posted by alona at 2:45 PM on June 27, 2006

I think hebrew would be fantastic (hebrew is integrated into my next planned tat).
Do you want to really appreciate and cherish your tattoo? Go take a class in Hebrew. Learn and appreciate what you are about to forever have etched onto your skin. This is in no way a judgement against people who get a symbol in a language they don't understand.

If you have the will to learn the language, you truly deserve to imprint it upon yourself.
posted by zerokey at 3:32 PM on June 27, 2006

I dont see anything wrong with a foreign langauge tatoo even if the wearer doesnt know the langauge

Here's something wrong with it: if you don't know the language, you'll never know for sure what it says. And yes, there are tattoo artists who will deliberately tattoo the wrong symbols, because they know you'll never know the difference.
posted by CrayDrygu at 4:14 PM on June 27, 2006

Here's something wrong with it: if you don't know the language, you'll never know for sure what it says

Well, obviously I mean that you would know the meaning of it (and find out something about it) before tatooing yourself with it! If you dont, then yes, all kinds of people can take advantage of you. But knowing the significance of a single symbol or word is still vastly different from having to "know the whole language" as some people implied above...
posted by jak68 at 5:20 PM on June 27, 2006

why not just get a tat that says 'Will', or more logically, 'Triumph of the will'

Coke. Outmynose.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 7:10 PM on June 27, 2006 [1 favorite]

I have a fair number of Chinese language resources on my website. Chinese for Firefly Fans, Chinese names for gamers, etc. I used to get a bunch of idiots asking me to help them with their tattoos. "What's my name in Chinese?" "How do you say 'Bad Mother Fucker' in Chinese?" etc. etc. ad nauseam. It really makes me angry. People who get Chinese tattoos because they're "cool" are engaging in orientalism, nothing more. Exoticizing the Other, cultural stereotyping, the whole shebang. Getting a tattoo in Thai or any language you don't actually know will be the same thing.

Seriously, like others have said here, why not get a sensical but deep phrase in English? Or better yet, design your own graphic (but make sure it doesn't accidentally mean something else first!). My sister has a very simple cube on her forearm. It doesn't mean very much but looks pretty cool. Even better, it doesn't wallow in idiotic cultural misunderstanding.
posted by jiawen at 8:44 PM on June 27, 2006

People who get Chinese tattoos because they're "cool" are engaging in orientalism, nothing more. Exoticizing the Other, cultural stereotyping, the whole shebang. Getting a tattoo in Thai or any language you don't actually know will be the same thing.

I dont want to start a "orientalism or not" war here, but really, thats just silly. It assumes a LOT about the intentions and motivations of people whom you just dont know. I'm all for criticizing Orientalism, but Orientalism is a socio-historical process that simply cannot be reduced to one person's utterance taken out of context, or one person's interest in a single foreign language phrase. This is another great example of how "Orientalism" has been reduced to a simplistic and blunt political weapon -- by perfectly well meaning, but terrifically overreacting -- people.
Orientalism is a much more complex social phenomenon than one person putting a tattoo on their butt.

Really, I dont mean to start an argument about this... just killing time before Conan comes on...
posted by jak68 at 9:53 PM on June 27, 2006

Orientalism is a much more complex social phenomenon than one person putting a tattoo on their butt.

I completely agree, but when thousands (or more) young Americans/Europeans/whatever have the same idea that Chinese characters make 'cool' tattoos, that's way more than one person and one butt, wouldn't you say? I mean, where did they all get this idea that Asian characters are exotic and cool? They certainly didn't all come up with it independently. That's the Orientalism part.
posted by arcticwoman at 10:26 PM on June 27, 2006

I want to go on a long polemic about how I don't think the red flag of Chinese character tattoos raised by many here is an example of how Orientalism has been reduced to a "simplistic and blunt political weapon" at all. But I'm too tired (and drunk), however I just want to say that speaking personally IMHO, when I see a white person with an Asian character tattooed on their body, I don't think "Wow, he's got will" or "She sure is spiritual." Instead, I think "What a fetishizing jackass."

I think you should get a tattoo that speaks to you personally and not get one because you think that culture's language looks "cool" or is really "neat and hip."
posted by Juggermatt at 10:47 PM on June 27, 2006

Asian characters are exotic and cool because Asians are exotic and cool! You know it!

As an oriental...uh, I mean as a chinese person, I don't see why it's deemed so offensive to use characters you can't read for a tattoo. If you've been to asia, you'll see that asians mis-use and butcher the english language all the time. Why do they use english characters if they don't really understand the meaning and usage? Because they think it's exotic and cool. Would you really belittle these asians for doing this? Most of the reaction that I see from the White Man is that they think it's quirkily awesome, teehee, snicker, snicker.

Unless you're asian, getting offended by someone for using an asian language they don't understand in a tattoo is another form of compartmentalizing asian culture as exotic and cool. It's so exotic and cool it's too sacred to be used as a tattoo right?

If a cheapo fast food joint from asia opened a store in the downtown of your city, it would be Totally Awesome. But if McDonald's opens a place in downtown Bangkok, omg, totally imperialism.

That said, translations are often difficult and really depend on the usage in context to get the intended meaning across. But that's an entirely different reason why the tattoo might be a bad idea.
posted by giantfist at 5:43 AM on June 28, 2006

Well, I guess I'm an orientalist then. Is there a club or something? Do we have mixers?

Among my art are symbols I lifted out of the I Ching and stylized. I suppose Wilhelm and Baynes might have misled me, but I'm going to assume they and their peer reviewers over the years aren't full of crap. Even if they are, once I put my touch on it and it went on my skin it DID mean what I believed it to mean.

If you want something stylized and with a 'gestalt' meaning rather than spelling out 'Will'(power) then find a basis (whether that be language, a character set, iconography or representative art) that you are comfortable with and pick it. This should not include the flash on the wall of your local parlor.

Is there any art that means this to you, or an art style that speaks to you? For miniature reproductions of classic art you could make an appointment with Anil Gupta, presuming this means enough to you to travel.

It's your body, and if you want to make your notes on it in Chinese, Swahili, braille, pictographs or English, do so.
posted by phearlez at 11:00 AM on June 28, 2006

Unless you're asian, getting offended by someone for using an asian language they don't understand in a tattoo is another form of compartmentalizing asian culture as exotic and cool. It's so exotic and cool it's too sacred to be used as a tattoo right?

Right on. What Giantfist said.
posted by jak68 at 12:33 PM on June 28, 2006