The " " War(s) - 2001 - 2012
May 30, 2006 3:40 PM Subscribe
What are your guesses as to what "the War in Iraq" be known as in ten years?
Having just taught a high school American History class, it became very appearent how we don't really have a name for what's going on in Iraq. "Operation Iraqi Freedom," like "Infinite Justice" (that's a lotta freakin' justice...) before it were too silly for the monikers to catch on. "The War in Iraq" meme sounds too immediate to stick around after we withdraw.
I collectively call everything post-9/11 the "Terror Wars" as I think once this thing winds down it'll less about Iraq and more about how broadly the U.S. extended itself. It's extremely unlikely my students and I will carry the same cultural weight as the news media and all the veterans.
I have a suspicion "The Second Gulf War" will be the preferred meme, but it seems silly to name the entire affair after a body of water that only one Iraqi village, Umm Quassr, touches. Kuwait was a Gulf state, Iraq barely qualifies.
Bonus question: When was the "Second World War/World War Two" first called such?
Having just taught a high school American History class, it became very appearent how we don't really have a name for what's going on in Iraq. "Operation Iraqi Freedom," like "Infinite Justice" (that's a lotta freakin' justice...) before it were too silly for the monikers to catch on. "The War in Iraq" meme sounds too immediate to stick around after we withdraw.
I collectively call everything post-9/11 the "Terror Wars" as I think once this thing winds down it'll less about Iraq and more about how broadly the U.S. extended itself. It's extremely unlikely my students and I will carry the same cultural weight as the news media and all the veterans.
I have a suspicion "The Second Gulf War" will be the preferred meme, but it seems silly to name the entire affair after a body of water that only one Iraqi village, Umm Quassr, touches. Kuwait was a Gulf state, Iraq barely qualifies.
Bonus question: When was the "Second World War/World War Two" first called such?
As uncreative as it may be .. it will most likely end up being either called Desert Storm II or Gulf War II.
posted by JFitzpatrick at 3:44 PM on May 30, 2006
posted by JFitzpatrick at 3:44 PM on May 30, 2006
In ten years it will probably be referred to as the "Ongoing Iraqi civil war."
posted by fire&wings at 3:45 PM on May 30, 2006 [1 favorite]
posted by fire&wings at 3:45 PM on May 30, 2006 [1 favorite]
My guess would be "The Iraq War."
But at this point, who's to say Bush's adventures in the Middle East won't be regarded by history as "World War Three?"
posted by M.C. Lo-Carb! at 3:47 PM on May 30, 2006
But at this point, who's to say Bush's adventures in the Middle East won't be regarded by history as "World War Three?"
posted by M.C. Lo-Carb! at 3:47 PM on May 30, 2006
I'm with fire&wings - I imagine it will still be called "The war."
posted by ORthey at 3:47 PM on May 30, 2006
posted by ORthey at 3:47 PM on May 30, 2006
Assuming the war is historical by that point and does not grow into a more complex conflict, I agree with MC, that "Iraq War" (at least in the US) seems likely.
I think Desert Storm came to be called the Gulf War because our (US) usual convention of naming wars after the location of the conflict would have been confusing-- we were fighting over Kuwait but with Iraq.
posted by justkevin at 3:58 PM on May 30, 2006
I think Desert Storm came to be called the Gulf War because our (US) usual convention of naming wars after the location of the conflict would have been confusing-- we were fighting over Kuwait but with Iraq.
posted by justkevin at 3:58 PM on May 30, 2006
Yeah, I imagine it will still be ongoing. Otherwise just "The Iraq War"
Most people remember the original war in Iraq as "Destert Storm" or "The Gulf war" because that's what people called it at the time. Most people call it "The Iraq War" because whatever marketing term they came up with this time was just beyond ridiculous. I mean Iraqis just don't seem very free to me at the moment.
That's a little ambiguous, but that's never stopped language before. Just look at the word "indians" Could mean Native Americans, or it could mean Indians from India. Usually it's obvious by context.
posted by delmoi at 3:58 PM on May 30, 2006
Most people remember the original war in Iraq as "Destert Storm" or "The Gulf war" because that's what people called it at the time. Most people call it "The Iraq War" because whatever marketing term they came up with this time was just beyond ridiculous. I mean Iraqis just don't seem very free to me at the moment.
That's a little ambiguous, but that's never stopped language before. Just look at the word "indians" Could mean Native Americans, or it could mean Indians from India. Usually it's obvious by context.
posted by delmoi at 3:58 PM on May 30, 2006
W's Folly?
the Nokia-Sony Battle Bowl, brought to you by Kellog, Brown and Root
The War of Christian Agression
The Start of the Glorious Shia Revolutionary War of Liberation
Crusade part deux
posted by Megafly at 4:16 PM on May 30, 2006
the Nokia-Sony Battle Bowl, brought to you by Kellog, Brown and Root
The War of Christian Agression
The Start of the Glorious Shia Revolutionary War of Liberation
Crusade part deux
posted by Megafly at 4:16 PM on May 30, 2006
Tangle on the Tigris?
Clash in the Crescent?
Last Stupid Mistake in the Powder Keg?
Seriously, though, I say we'll call it the Iraq War. Iraq will call it something else, c.f. in Vietnam, the Vietnam War is known as the American War.
posted by kookoobirdz at 4:24 PM on May 30, 2006
Clash in the Crescent?
Last Stupid Mistake in the Powder Keg?
Seriously, though, I say we'll call it the Iraq War. Iraq will call it something else, c.f. in Vietnam, the Vietnam War is known as the American War.
posted by kookoobirdz at 4:24 PM on May 30, 2006
Damn you Megafly! i was going to submit 'The War of American Aggression', but not only did you beat me to the reference, your answer was better.
posted by quin at 5:07 PM on May 30, 2006
posted by quin at 5:07 PM on May 30, 2006
The Huge Debacle?
posted by gramcracker at 5:29 PM on May 30, 2006
posted by gramcracker at 5:29 PM on May 30, 2006
And lets not forget about Afganistan... or is that an entirely different war? Maybe we should just see what the Iraqi and Afgan people call the war...
posted by blaneyphoto at 5:36 PM on May 30, 2006
posted by blaneyphoto at 5:36 PM on May 30, 2006
I'm just going by my general impression here (superficially bolstered by looking at Wikipedia's list of wars), but it seems to me that wars are almost always named for one of three things: (1) the place where the war was fought, (2) the parties involved, or (3) the issue that was the immediate cause of the war. "The Iraq War" fits this pattern. It's already widely used, without confusion. It's unambiguous, because the other relatively recent wars in Iraq are already known by different names ("The Gulf War" and "The Iran-Iraq War"). It's briefer than any obvious alternative. So, I'd be suprised if ten years from now the Iraq war was known by another name.
Except maybe "the ongoing Iraq war". But I'd rather not think about that too much.
posted by moss at 5:37 PM on May 30, 2006
Except maybe "the ongoing Iraq war". But I'd rather not think about that too much.
posted by moss at 5:37 PM on May 30, 2006
The Mistake
posted by Dreamghost at 5:39 PM on May 30, 2006
posted by Dreamghost at 5:39 PM on May 30, 2006
Does anyone really call it Gulf War II right now? I haven't heard this name except in this kind of speculative discussion. Mostly I've heard Iraq War, and I can't imagine any other name taking over for it, at least in the US.
posted by MadamM at 5:47 PM on May 30, 2006
posted by MadamM at 5:47 PM on May 30, 2006
You may be conflating two or three things.
First there is the Iraq invasion and removal of Saddam Husaim. This will probably be refered to as "Gulf War II" or "Iraq Invasion".
The second act is the "Iraq Occupation", which may not qualify as a war: Who is the enemy of the US? The admin line is that we are fighting "terrorists". In VietNam there was some terrorism but there was a named enemy - the North Vietnamese.
Finally, currently there is a low grade "Iraq Civil War" . Various factions are killing members of other factions, and the US is not really a player in this game (other than wanting it to stop). This civil war may escalate to the point that the parties adopt formal military organizaion (e.g. ranks, uniforms, and brigades) and go all out.
If there is a total "Iraq Civil War" than that will probably get the top billing, and the winners will probably get to decide what general term to refer to the 3 acts. And this depends upon whether the winner like or hate the US for setting off the whole process.
For now I refer to the 3 acts as "the Iraq Mess".
posted by MonkeySaltedNuts at 6:22 PM on May 30, 2006
First there is the Iraq invasion and removal of Saddam Husaim. This will probably be refered to as "Gulf War II" or "Iraq Invasion".
The second act is the "Iraq Occupation", which may not qualify as a war: Who is the enemy of the US? The admin line is that we are fighting "terrorists". In VietNam there was some terrorism but there was a named enemy - the North Vietnamese.
Finally, currently there is a low grade "Iraq Civil War" . Various factions are killing members of other factions, and the US is not really a player in this game (other than wanting it to stop). This civil war may escalate to the point that the parties adopt formal military organizaion (e.g. ranks, uniforms, and brigades) and go all out.
If there is a total "Iraq Civil War" than that will probably get the top billing, and the winners will probably get to decide what general term to refer to the 3 acts. And this depends upon whether the winner like or hate the US for setting off the whole process.
For now I refer to the 3 acts as "the Iraq Mess".
posted by MonkeySaltedNuts at 6:22 PM on May 30, 2006
Iranqian Debacle
Bush II War II
The Dubya-Aye-Are (W-A-R)
Mo'hammed Mo'Problems
I like the Daily Show's Mess O' Potamia
posted by Frank Grimes at 6:23 PM on May 30, 2006
Bush II War II
The Dubya-Aye-Are (W-A-R)
Mo'hammed Mo'Problems
I like the Daily Show's Mess O' Potamia
posted by Frank Grimes at 6:23 PM on May 30, 2006
I dare say the Iraqis, like the Vietnamese, will refer to it as "the American war".
The USA haven't actually declared war or Iraq or Afghanistan has it?
posted by Tixylix at 6:27 PM on May 30, 2006
The USA haven't actually declared war or Iraq or Afghanistan has it?
posted by Tixylix at 6:27 PM on May 30, 2006
Although I tend to agree with many others that it will end up being called "The Iraq War", it seems to me that a more fitting term would definately be "The Iraq Invasion".
After all, it wasn't so much a war (like the gulf war, where Saddam made an aggresive move by attacking Kuwait and the US responded) as a decision by GWB to invade Iraq (to displace Saddam). A few other posts here seem to back this.
but that's just my political opinion!
posted by ranglin at 7:20 PM on May 30, 2006
After all, it wasn't so much a war (like the gulf war, where Saddam made an aggresive move by attacking Kuwait and the US responded) as a decision by GWB to invade Iraq (to displace Saddam). A few other posts here seem to back this.
but that's just my political opinion!
posted by ranglin at 7:20 PM on May 30, 2006
The United States hasn't declared war since the Second World War.
posted by Atreides at 7:22 PM on May 30, 2006
posted by Atreides at 7:22 PM on May 30, 2006
As for the question, I prefer the Second Gulf War, but I'll agree with the Invasionists. It was just a flat out invasion of another country on crappy evidence of a threat. In my happy thoughts, I'd like to think that ten years down the road and on our second or third president after Dubya, the tide of historical condemnation of Bush will be in full effect and Iraq will have a name that reflects that.
posted by Atreides at 7:25 PM on May 30, 2006
posted by Atreides at 7:25 PM on May 30, 2006
The New Vietnam... or Revelations?
posted by randomthoughts at 7:47 PM on May 30, 2006
posted by randomthoughts at 7:47 PM on May 30, 2006
I was under the impression that consensus had already formed. The first one is generally referred to as the Gulf War, and the second as the Iraq war.
posted by gsteff at 9:48 PM on May 30, 2006
posted by gsteff at 9:48 PM on May 30, 2006
"The Halliburton War"
posted by SwingingJohnson1968 at 10:35 PM on May 30, 2006
posted by SwingingJohnson1968 at 10:35 PM on May 30, 2006
I do occasionally see it referred to as "the second Gulf war", but dunno if that's the name that'll stick.
I wonder if the US invasion of Afghanistan and the invasion of Iraq will be conflated into a single conflict (which would be confusing if that conflict is called, say, "the US-Iraq war"), or if they'll be remembered separately. Right now Afghanistan seems to be out of the news pretty thoroughly, except for when it's being associated with Iraq.
posted by hattifattener at 11:33 PM on May 30, 2006
I wonder if the US invasion of Afghanistan and the invasion of Iraq will be conflated into a single conflict (which would be confusing if that conflict is called, say, "the US-Iraq war"), or if they'll be remembered separately. Right now Afghanistan seems to be out of the news pretty thoroughly, except for when it's being associated with Iraq.
posted by hattifattener at 11:33 PM on May 30, 2006
The George W. Bush's sadly small penis war.
posted by Paris Hilton at 2:36 AM on May 31, 2006
posted by Paris Hilton at 2:36 AM on May 31, 2006
There was never a war against Iraq. Iraq is our ally, and we have always been at war with Iran.
Seriously though, The Iraq War seems to be the one sticking the most, even though it might technically be wrong. I assume that it's part of the greater War on Terror, which started with 9/11 and the US reaction to that (the invasion of Afghanistan).
World War III seems to be typically used for the hypothetical apocalyptic nuclear war. I think it's unlikely that name will ever be used for something else (unless things go horribly wrong).
posted by Harry at 5:01 AM on May 31, 2006
Seriously though, The Iraq War seems to be the one sticking the most, even though it might technically be wrong. I assume that it's part of the greater War on Terror, which started with 9/11 and the US reaction to that (the invasion of Afghanistan).
World War III seems to be typically used for the hypothetical apocalyptic nuclear war. I think it's unlikely that name will ever be used for something else (unless things go horribly wrong).
posted by Harry at 5:01 AM on May 31, 2006
Oh, and the bonus question (I got this from bits and pieces on Wikipedia):
The term 'world war' was apparently coined before WWI, as a potential climax of the complex alliances and frictions in early 20th century Europe. WWI may have been classed a 'world war', but it was generally called the Great War or the 'war to end all wars'. The first use of World War Two seems to be in 1928, by the American Secretary of State Kellog, in a speech warning of future conflict.
posted by Harry at 5:14 AM on May 31, 2006
The term 'world war' was apparently coined before WWI, as a potential climax of the complex alliances and frictions in early 20th century Europe. WWI may have been classed a 'world war', but it was generally called the Great War or the 'war to end all wars'. The first use of World War Two seems to be in 1928, by the American Secretary of State Kellog, in a speech warning of future conflict.
posted by Harry at 5:14 AM on May 31, 2006
I like "GW II," naming it after its daddy. Another good possibility: "The 30-year war (no, the other one)."
Seriously though, I think it is already pretty well fixed in the American mind as "the Iraq war."
posted by adamrice at 7:08 AM on May 31, 2006
Seriously though, I think it is already pretty well fixed in the American mind as "the Iraq war."
posted by adamrice at 7:08 AM on May 31, 2006
To echo monkeysaltednuts, (and from a US viewpoint) I go with the "invasion and occupation of Iraq" (as unwieldy as that might be) leading into (depending on future events) the Iraqi civil war or possible Iraqi Partition into separate ethnoreligious enclaves.
Like Tixylix said, the actual inhabitants will probably call it "The American War" leading into "The Civil War".
posted by SenshiNeko at 7:53 PM on June 1, 2006
Like Tixylix said, the actual inhabitants will probably call it "The American War" leading into "The Civil War".
posted by SenshiNeko at 7:53 PM on June 1, 2006
And lets not forget about Afganistan... or is that an entirely different war? Maybe we should just see what the Iraqi and Afgan people call the war...
This is all going to get very confusing when we have to study "the American War" over and over again. (off the top of my head, the "local" names of at least the war in Viet Nam and I think one of the fights over Cuba, but surely that list can be lengthened by someone who actually knows anything about history.)
posted by whatzit at 12:48 PM on June 9, 2006
This is all going to get very confusing when we have to study "the American War" over and over again. (off the top of my head, the "local" names of at least the war in Viet Nam and I think one of the fights over Cuba, but surely that list can be lengthened by someone who actually knows anything about history.)
posted by whatzit at 12:48 PM on June 9, 2006
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by bingo at 3:44 PM on May 30, 2006