Accepting a job, negotiating a salary...

May 16, 2006 2:15 PM

Salary negotiations tomorrow morning. Please help!

I dropped out of grad school and now am accepting a job with a nonprofit I've been working for, doing somewhat precise and skilled work.

I don't know what a comparable pay rate in the area is -- all I know is that I've been making $X / hour as a consultant for the group (without benefits), and that they have a budget for this position for Y months, so they must have a rough figure in mind.

Me, I'd like to end up at the top end of their range without seeming like a cad -- it is a great place to work, I expect to learn a lot, and I'm happy to get more involved.

I've read about six Mefi threads on salary / raise negotiations and all I've learned is not to state a number first. Fine. They state one. Then, what, I just accept it? Do I add 5% and counteroffer? I'm afraid that's going to look tawdry in such a cause-oriented organization. Do I shake my head slightly and frown? Or, is there a way to pre-emptively get them to offer me the top of their range?

I'm also hoping to negotiate for four ten-hour days and the option to take some unpaid vacation time this first summer.

Thoughts on the negotiations? Other strategies or things to ask for I might not have thought about?

(I'm also outlining the projects I'll be working on -- I'm not just focusing on what they can give me. I basically need help with negotiations because I'm one of those "Women Don't Ask" types, trying to find a comfortable way to get as much as I'm worth.)

posted by ruff to work & money (12 comments total)

I re-read this book every time I interview for a new job: Negotiate Your Job Offer.
posted by matildaben at 2:31 PM on May 16, 2006

This article on salary negotiation was all over the place a few weeks ago, too. If you haven't seen it before, it has a lot of good advice. You might be able to apply some of its generalities to your specific situation.
posted by cacophony at 2:37 PM on May 16, 2006

You ask them what range they're offering the position at, they tell you; then you either state that given the work you'll be doing / your experience / the rate you've been on as a consultant, you would expect a salary at the upper end of the range / more than the upper end of the range. You wait to see what they say.

You have a couple of things up your sleeve - the working arrangements and the unpaid leave. Save this for their best offer - in effect these things have value to you, so you'd take a lower salary if you could have them. So you can then say, well, okay, that's lower than you were expecting but if they could work it so you could work 4 days and take some time off in summer, you'd accept.

If there's a big difference between what they're offering and what you want, you can say that you need to go away and think about it. That's fine - it gives them time to go away and adjust budgets, and gives you time to figure out what's more important to you - the job or a higher salary.

Good luck!

P.S. Whatever happens, don't accept the offer in the interview - ALWAYS go away and think about it, even if it's just for the afternoon.
posted by MaJumelleDiabolique at 2:43 PM on May 16, 2006

Our local nonprofit group does a biannual wages and benefits survey (here), perhaps your area has an organization that does one as well?
posted by miss tea at 2:50 PM on May 16, 2006

And think about the words that you use - they're powerful tools. You don't "hope for", you "expect". They can "justify" a higher salary for you, they don't have to "excuse" it. etc etc.

Practice the conversation in front of a mirror / partner tonight.
posted by MaJumelleDiabolique at 3:00 PM on May 16, 2006

Have a few numbers in mind before you walk in - a salary you'd accept, a salary you'd prefer, and a salary below which you walk out the door.

I'm also hoping to negotiate for four ten-hour days and the option to take some unpaid vacation time this first summer.

Negotiate these first, then start talking salary. These are relatively easy things for a company to give up (even a nonprofit), so they may be more willing to accommodate you if you're straight up front about them.

The most important thing, in my experience, is to know what to fight for and what to let go - if, for example, they show amazingly strong resistance to the four-ten's, let it go for now. Bring it up a few months down the road, and show them accomplishments that will bolster your case for working as you want to, but if they appear intractable in the negotiation, back-burner it for now.

Good luck!
posted by pdb at 3:00 PM on May 16, 2006 [1 favorite]

You say: "I appreciate your offer and I really want to work here but there's these two other companies that want to hire me now and it's hard to say no the money they are offering me because I have a lot of living expenses... " That's right, I'm suggesting that you lie, or go shop for other offers so that it's not a lie.
posted by StarForce5 at 3:06 PM on May 16, 2006

That's right, I'm suggesting that you lie, or go shop for other offers so that it's not a lie.

Or, if you're not comfortable doing this, miss tea's idea of a wages and benefits survey is a good option - know what the competition pays for your skills, and you have a stronger chance of getting a better offer from where you want to be.
posted by pdb at 3:08 PM on May 16, 2006

Original poster here. Thanks so much for all the help so far! I've managed to find out what comparable organizations pay, and actually, I just remembered that one of those organizations' heads has told me he'd hire me, so I can do what StarForce5 says, without lying. So, I don't need any more help with that part of the question.

I'd still love help with angling toward the top edge. I found a fairly consistent starting salary range, but it's really broad, a 25% variation between low and high. Judging by what I'm getting now, I expect their initial offer to be somewhat weak for the region. I have logical reasons I deserve the high end of the pay scale, but the conversational part, the phrasing, of addressing a low initial offer is still tricky for me.
posted by ruff at 3:29 PM on May 16, 2006

he phrasing, of addressing a low initial offer is still tricky for me.

Be honest. If they lowball you, tell them "I understand you have financial constraints, but..." and then list the logical reasons you have that make you feel you deserve more. Don't do it emotionally, do it logically and rationally; through your accomplishments thus far, build a case that they can't ignore that if they offer you X, you really deserve X plus 15% or whatever based on the market you've found.

You have the advantage that this place knows your work; use that as much as possible. Again, not on an emotional level, but on a "look what you asked me to do, and look how well I did it" level, if that makes sense.
posted by pdb at 3:40 PM on May 16, 2006 [1 favorite]

Practice the conversation. Get a friend and practice. Go through it once, at least, and more if you can help it. Tell your partner (a friend, spouse, etc.) to go easy on you once (i.e., offer is something closer to what you want) and hard on you once (offer is low, they can't really budge). You need to practice saying those numbers out loud. Or at least I did when I was applying for real jobs with real salaries.

You need to start to get into the habit not of justifying but of expecting, as MaJubelleDiabolique says. This will come across in what words you say, but also in how you hold yourself and everything.

As in all negotiations, being in a position of power totally helps. It's great that you have a potential offer from another company. I'd go one step further and get that offer to a point that you'd really consider it. That's it's real in your mind. This will be key as you negotiate because you can plausibly walk away from this offer. This is the power position. Remember, you want to work there, but they also have work that needs to get done. And they want you to do it (they don't talk numbers with people that they don't want to do their work). So you're in a position of power.

I hear a lot about letting them say the first number. But in this situation, since you know that their number will be lower than you'll accept, I wouldn't say that you absolutely can't make the first offer. You can. Practice doing this also.
posted by zpousman at 4:14 PM on May 16, 2006 [1 favorite]

I found in my current job when I went from consultants rates (quite high but no benefits) to salary (a little over what I was on in my previous company) the company was a bit embarrassed to offer such a pay cut. Fortunately, I really wanted the security of a full time job (a baby was on the way and a mortgage was in negotiation) and really wanted to work regularly from home.
Their embarrassment and my desire for telecomuting saw a mutually beneficial outcome.
You are in a very good position to negotiate for perks because they know what they are getting, you aren't some schmo off the street which would be their alternative.
posted by bystander at 3:12 AM on May 17, 2006