Is the Buddha in It?

May 12, 2006 6:17 AM

Soka Gakkai International. Experiences, good/bad?

We are seeking a better spiritual fit, more focused on personal growth and expanding our worldview than on myth, ritual, and superstition.

Attended a meeting a few weeks ago and liked what I heard. This isn't a cult or something, right?

posted by ZenMasterThis to religion & philosophy (18 comments total)

A lot of people consider it a cult. You might want to check these sites: FactNet, SokaGakkai—Peace?, Freedom of Mind Center. Bear in mind that a lot of cults initially present themselves as harmless "personal growth" systems; that's how they hook you.
posted by languagehat at 6:29 AM on May 12, 2006

I'm not sure if it's a cult, but I was exploring it several years ago and, while the meeting/ceremony I attended had a good feeling of community and some of the spiritual aspects made sense to me, I was a little turned off by the proselytizing afterwards.

Afterward, while hanging out in the lobby with the friend who brought me and looking through some of the publications they sold in the bookstore there, several members came by -- sensing that I was new and was considering joining them, I think -- and talked to me about their experiences and what led them to Soka Gakkai. At first I thought they were charming and welcoming, but at some point they became a little too much so; I noticed a slightly uncomfortable intensity and a strange gleam in their eyes as they explained to me the beauty and life-changing power of the path and urged me to join. That experience made me me feel slightly off and I never went back.
posted by tentacle at 6:29 AM on May 12, 2006

Oh, I should add that I had never heard of this group before attending that meeting, so I had no preconceived notions of them; ie, I wasn't expecting them to be fanatics or anything, or looking for "strange gleams"...
posted by tentacle at 6:31 AM on May 12, 2006

I think it's a legitimate Buddhist temple.

My wife and I went once or twice to SGI meetings when she was doing graduate studies in Buddhism. I found the atmosphere a little odd, but I'm not really an organized-religion type of person. it's no odder than a Catholic church. It's the branch of Buddhism that is big on lots of chanting - there are some specific terms to describe it, but I'm not the one with the religion degree. But if you go, expect to chant a lot.

There were a bunch of people who got up at one point, new members of the temple I guess. They talked about why they were there and how much they liked it. I recall them all being (ex-)Catholic and (ex-)Jewish and talking about how their previous religious experiences always made them feel so guilty and how nice everyone was a SGI. That felt a little culty, but again, not any more culty than, say, a Baptist church.

This was in Toronto - I'm led to believe that in Japan and countries that have native Buddhist traditions, it's different. But I'm not quite sure how so.

And when you say "...than on myth, ritual, and superstition", do you mean something in particular? Are you talking about other buddhist temples or about versus a different religion altogether? The SGI temple in Toronto I visited struck me as what someone who grew up going to a Canadian church would make if they were told to start a Buddhist worship service, in contrast to the, uh, "hard-core" Buddhist temples that are based on a traditional Chinese or Japanese model, which are obviously from a completely foreign cultural context.

On preview, I don't remember any of that stuff, but my wife was upfront with people that she was there doing academic research, so maybe they didn't bother with the hard-sell on us. They certainly do proselytize, but (to repeat myself) I don't think they do it any more than a typical Christian church.
posted by GuyZero at 6:33 AM on May 12, 2006

I have always thought that Soka Gakkai is very "Protestant" in its demeanor and has a somewhat un-Buddhist emphasis on promoting individual success in material as spiritual terms.
posted by MasonDixon at 6:35 AM on May 12, 2006

And when you say "...than on myth, ritual, and superstition", do you mean something in particular? Are you talking about other buddhist temples or about versus a different religion altogether?

Both.
posted by ZenMasterThis at 6:38 AM on May 12, 2006

I consider it a cult. Some of its values seem kind of out-there for Buddhism and it proselytizes very aggressively (something you don't see much with Buddhism). And the fact that it has a corrupt political party (Komeito) associated with it doesn't do anything to endear it to me either. Nichiren was kind of a crank in his day, too.

If you check the wikipedia article on SGI, you'll see it's fairly controversial.
posted by adamrice at 6:44 AM on May 12, 2006

My devoutly Buddhist Japanese girlfriend makes an aggressive "yuck!" face at the mention of Sokka Gakkai. She says it is more like Scientology or Moonie-ism than orthodox Buddhism, (she actually used the label "MindHead" in her increasingly vituperative attempt to describe it) with an emphasis on coercive political power in Japan itself.
posted by zaelic at 6:55 AM on May 12, 2006

Ugh. My family interacted with them, briefly, when I was young, in 5th or 6th grade. This was southern California; basically, at the meetings, there were testimonials about material successes achieved via the practice. Every meeting was like an infomercial. As I recall, the members were overtly recruiters. I don't remember too much but when I look back, I do remember the great feelings of ickiness.

Later, as an adult, I knew a woman with a very rich family who was in thick with them. Her financial relationship with SGI was... entangled, to say the least. I could look at that two ways: well, all religions need financial support to build their temples and pay their CEOs, I mean, leaders, and perhaps to do good works. Or, on the other hand, I could look at SGI's relationship with "donations" and the like as an institution with plenty of money getting paid very well in exchange for... well, for what, exactly? They tell members that money is an energy, and giving it to SGI means they'll have more money later on through some odd physics of money theory. That smells fishy, at the very best.
posted by RJ Reynolds at 7:01 AM on May 12, 2006

i taught a lot of Sokkai Gakkai people back in the day. They were very much on the conservative/borderline autistic/power-hungry/goggle-eyed end of the spectrum.
posted by dydecker at 7:08 AM on May 12, 2006

an institution with plenty of money getting paid very well in exchange for... well, for what, exactly?

So, I'm no defender of SGI, but this statement applies to a lot of religious institutions other than SGI.

Proselytizing, telling members that they'll be more successful if they follow the organization's teachings, involvement with political parties, collecting money: these behaviours are not exclusive to SGI.

(btw, your favourite religionband sucks.)
posted by GuyZero at 7:20 AM on May 12, 2006

I saw some kind of documentary on cults on A&E about a year ago and they interviewed singer Duncan Sheik who is in Sokkai Gakkai -- there was a bizarre moment where the narrator said they couldn't show Duncan meditating because he was in front of a tapestry that the religion doesn't allow to be showed.

Anyone even remotely familiar with the major schools of Buddhism knows that there's nothing hidden or secret in the practice.

My vote? Cult. Avoid.
posted by gsh at 7:26 AM on May 12, 2006

My wife and I went once or twice to SGI meetings

You don't seriously think a visit or two gives you standing to decide it's "a legitimate Buddhist temple," do you? If that's how she did her grad work, she's not much of a scholar.
posted by languagehat at 8:38 AM on May 12, 2006

I've got no experience with them myself, but one of the first hits on Google for them is for the Victims of Soka Gakkai Association. I gotta say, any organization that has its own association of victims is something you should be careful with on general principles.
posted by scalefree at 8:51 AM on May 12, 2006

Yeah, it's a cult. Nothing like Buddhism at all.
posted by reklaw at 9:46 AM on May 12, 2006

I was a member for about 6 months in the early 80s. I wouldn't say it's a cult, but it is "cultish." The members do have those public relations smiles and programmatic way of speaking about the joy their religion has brought to them. I was really turned off by the materialism that seemed to pervade the discourse.

Here's the type of thing they sprinkle their conversations with, too:
I was chanting last night before I went to bed and thought, maybe I should do an extra 15 minutes. But I was tired so I went to bed. You know what happened this morning? I cut myself shaving. If I had just done that extra 15 minutes....

I'm serious. They say shit like that. To sum up, I would not say it's a cult, they don't deprive you of protein or anything, but everybody involved is really neurotic and weird. Like someone above said, lots of Jews and ex-Catholics
posted by zorro astor at 10:14 AM on May 12, 2006

One more thing, the organization you're talking about is the Soka Gakkei, which is a lay organization. The priesthood and the SG have had long and drawn out battles going back decades. In fact the priesthood excommunicated all the members of Soka Gakkei a number of years back if I'm not mistaken.
posted by zorro astor at 10:22 AM on May 12, 2006

I have a friend who is in the SGI. She's not "really enurotic and weird" - well, no weirder than the rest of us really. She seemed really all together with herself, and never once tried to convert us. (She did talk about it often during any religious discussion though - especially the chanting.)

I sent her the link to this, so she's probably reading it now...if she has a response I'll share it with you (with her permission).
posted by divabat at 7:42 PM on May 12, 2006