Comments on: I know they're money-grubbing bastards, but would they stoop this low?

Question: I know they're money-grubbing bastards, but would they stoop this low?

denimflavored — Tue, 09 May 2006 13:53:14 -0800

Who would I contact if I suspect a gas station has altered the pumps to give out less than a full gallon?

The reason I ask is because I just filled up at a station for $2.79/gal (10-20 cents cheaper than everywhere else). My tank was close to empty, but not quite. It pumped 13.9 gallons, but my Civic only has a 13.2 gallon tank. Is it possible that my tank somehow deviates from the norm by over a half gallon, or is it likely that they have changed the pump?
I don't want to jump the gun, but at these prices I'm not very happy to be cheated.

By: 517

517 — Tue, 09 May 2006 13:55:49 -0800

These guys.

By: exogenous

exogenous — Tue, 09 May 2006 13:56:01 -0800

In most places I've seen, the authorities have stickers that go on the pumps to certify accuracy. Look there - probably a state-level agency.

By: Gungho

Gungho — Tue, 09 May 2006 13:56:07 -0800

the local department of weights and measures at the city or county hall.

By: sohcahtoa

sohcahtoa — Tue, 09 May 2006 13:58:19 -0800

Frank Russo (if you're in Cleveland).

By: voidcontext

voidcontext — Tue, 09 May 2006 13:58:33 -0800

If they are ripping people off, to do so by that much (almost 10%?) would be very risky. Most of the places that try to get away with this would try to make just a few extra pennies per gallon.

What state are you in? It's usually enforced state by state, usually there's a state division of weights & measures IIRC.

By: voidcontext

voidcontext — Tue, 09 May 2006 14:00:44 -0800

Also, if there's a bit of room in the pipe leading to your gas tank, it might cover the discrepancy. It's a decent volume if you add up the length of a few feet to the tank. I am not sure if gas can back up into there, though.

By: RustyBrooks

RustyBrooks — Tue, 09 May 2006 14:03:54 -0800

It should be fairly easy to verify. Buy a gas container, check the volume as thoroughly as possible at home beforehand (using, say, 1 gallon bottles of water) and then fill it and see what the pump says. The bigger the container, the better.

My question might be, if you did this at 10 gas stations, how much deviation would you expect to see?

By: pardonyou?

pardonyou? — Tue, 09 May 2006 14:05:18 -0800

You might also contact your state attorney general. They often love to glom on to cases like this when the product in question is currently fueling (npi) public outrage.

By: aeighty

aeighty — Tue, 09 May 2006 14:05:38 -0800

Is your tank's capacity 13.2 gallons including reserve or no? Plus doesn't gasoline expand/contract at different temperatures? How's that calculated?

By: drstein

drstein — Tue, 09 May 2006 14:07:26 -0800

These kinds of claims are more common when gas prices are higher.

This article might shed some light on the subject.

Here in Santa Clara County, there's a department that handles all of that stuff. It's the Division of Weights & Measures.

By: blueshammer

blueshammer — Tue, 09 May 2006 14:09:40 -0800

Ethan Coen has a short story that opens with a Weights & Measures guy putting the hardboiled pinch on a fradulent gas station operator, which might offer you some visceral pleasure. The story is "Gates of Eden," from the book "Gates of Eden."

... Aw, hell, I'll just reproduce the relevant portion:

I pulled into the self-serve island of Herve's on Highland, up to where it meets the freeway. I got out my two five-gallon provers. I put the regular nozzle into the red proved and squeezed. When the pump read five gallons, the bottom of the meniscus rested on 4.59. Herve was coming out to watch, wiping his hands on an oily rag.

I started gassing up the green one, this time unleaded.

"Looks bad, Herve." The pump was humming away, a happy little bandit.

"I had those pumps fixed, man."

"I should hope so, Herve. I gave you three months." We both watch the numbers climbing on the pump. "But the regular sure did look bad."

He looked at the can and licked his lips. "I got those suckers fixed."

The pump was turning over ro four gallons, but the gas in my state-issue can was bubbling short of its four. "The unleaded doesn't look so hot either."

I was easing off the pump. One more squirt.

The pump read five state-of-California gallons.

The meniscus read 4.41.

Herve paled. "I don't understand."

"You don't understand." I holstered the nozzle, affecting calm. "Well, let me try to explain." When I wheeled, my right fist caught his throat.

He dropped, clutching his Adam's apple and trying to suck air.

"I told you three months ago. Calibrate these sons of bitches!" I kicked him twice. "Don't fuck with the public!" He was still scrabbling at his throat, turning the mottled red of an L.A. sunset. "The meniscus don't lie, greaseball! Read the state manual!" I bounced a copy of the 400-page book off his ear. "It'll tell you everything you need to know!"

I grabbed a tire iron.

Herve was moaning, trying to crawl away with one hand clawing at the pavement, the other pressed to his inflamed left ear. "The green card you got ain't a license to steal." I hefted the tire iron. "This is your second warning," I bellowed. "The state don't give three!"

I spun, around and around and around, and let go of the tire iron. There was a crack like a pistol shot and the plate glass front of Herve's went away.

I tossed the provies into my car and took off.

My name is Joe Gendreau. California Weights and Measures.

***

Lovely Spillane et al. style parody. The audiobook as read by William H. Macy is even better.

By: SpecialK

SpecialK — Tue, 09 May 2006 14:17:27 -0800

Your tank actually may actually take a larger quantity. I had the same issue with a 2000 coupe, which uses the same fuel tank design. The trick is that they don't count the fill throat of the tank or the housing around the pump intake as part of the fuel tank, and reduce the volume appropriately. So it's theoretically possible for you to get a few more tenths of a gallon out, especially if you'd been driving with the gas light on.

But more than half a gallon is a little much. Your state agriculture department's division of weights and measures is typically responsible, and googling them up will usually yield a hotline. Alternately, there should be a 'inspected as of' sticker on every pump, with a phone number on them.

I once called a gas station owner on it. The pump dispensed 14.5 gallons into that same Civic. I walked in with the receipt and the owners manual and showed the owner of the station. He shrugged and said it wasn't his problem, and I could sue him over $2.75 if I felt like it. I got back in my car and called the number on the sticker on the pump, and a week later there was a story about the owner of the gas station being fined a lot of money, which forced him to declare bankruptcy and sell the station.

By: edgeways

edgeways — Tue, 09 May 2006 14:17:49 -0800

that's funny

By: edgeways

edgeways — Tue, 09 May 2006 14:18:54 -0800

blueshammer's bit that is

By: SpecialK

SpecialK — Tue, 09 May 2006 14:21:15 -0800

D'oh. You're in Pennyslvania. Should've looked. Use this form.

By: SpecialK

SpecialK — Tue, 09 May 2006 14:30:40 -0800

... Only to see that the first poster had it. :(

By: denimflavored

denimflavored — Tue, 09 May 2006 14:32:41 -0800

Wow, thanks guys - that was quick. And loved the story, btw.
I don't know how much fits in the pipe to the gas tank, but my gas light wasn't even on yet, so I know I had at least a gallon left. I'll definitely be contacting the Dept of Weights and Measures.

By: fixedgear

fixedgear — Tue, 09 May 2006 14:36:09 -0800

There is a sticker on every pump in the state of PA. The ones that are under/over (yes, they get red-tagged for going over, it's a spill hazard) get taken out of service. Dunno about Pittsburgh but as soon as prices stated to climb the local news all did stories about the state agencies in PA, NJ and DE who are responsible for checking the accuracy of pumps. Given the current high cost of gas and the huge visibility of this issue, I'd say they'd have to be insane to try to scam right now. The nominal capacity of your tank is 13.2 plus the fill tube +/- manufacturing tolerances so in all likelihood you got what you paid for.

By: indiebass

indiebass — Tue, 09 May 2006 14:36:47 -0800

I would be fairly confident that your car has a reserve of at least two gallons. I have a 2001 Civic, myself, but I don't really know what the reserve is. I used to have a four gallon reserve on my Oldsmobile, which was awesome. But unfortunately got me into the practice of driving past the E, which is bad.

By: nomisxid

nomisxid — Tue, 09 May 2006 14:39:07 -0800

As an interesting aside, it's well established that the slower you fill the tank, the more you get, while the faster you pump, the less accurate, in the wrong direction, things get.

By: gemini

gemini — Tue, 09 May 2006 14:55:57 -0800

it's well established that....

link?

By: mendel

mendel — Tue, 09 May 2006 15:30:27 -0800

Is gas volume certified where you are? Here in Canada, pumps are certified for volume at 15 degrees Celsius. Warmer than 15, the meter will overread. There's a short explanation of volume correction here.

By: Dreama

Dreama — Tue, 09 May 2006 15:35:01 -0800

517 nailed it in answer number one. For the rest of us in the area, care to name the station in question?

By: kcm

kcm — Tue, 09 May 2006 15:49:30 -0800

I put almost 14 gallons in an '01 Civic once. It sounds like overreaction unless you recorded your mileage since the last fillup and it corroborates your idea. Which station in Pittsburgh?

By: kcm

kcm — Tue, 09 May 2006 15:58:10 -0800

and no, station operators are not the recipients of "money grubbing". the margins on gasoline sales are quite low and pretty much always have been.

By: Count Ziggurat

Count Ziggurat — Tue, 09 May 2006 16:13:46 -0800

Verify it with a jerry can before you bother the Department of Weights and Measures.

By: joeblough

joeblough — Tue, 09 May 2006 16:42:51 -0800

actually i have heard that you can buy chips for gas pumps which meter out gas accurately for the first 5 gallons or so, and then start cheating after that. the rationale being that the weights and measures guys use a 5 gallon container to check the pump.

i've just heard this around though, i dont have any actual evidence of it.

By: I_am_jesus

I_am_jesus — Tue, 09 May 2006 17:33:11 -0800

follow up question if i may.

I notice that if you prepay, say $5.00, the pump will cut off exactly when it reaches $5. However, if i pay with a credit card, i can squeeze an extra thenth of a gallon or so out of that last penny before it hits $5.01. So the gas stations arent giving people the full amount of gas they paid for. How is this legal?

By: Wood

Wood — Tue, 09 May 2006 18:05:04 -0800

I_am_jesus, maybe it's the other way around, you're getting extra if you somehow stop right before the number turns over.

By: aberrant

aberrant — Tue, 09 May 2006 18:10:08 -0800

Jesus: at $3 per gallon, one penny gets you 1/300 of a gallon, which is 0.43 ounces - hardly enough to make a stink about. (or am I misunderstanding your question?)

By: I_am_jesus

I_am_jesus — Tue, 09 May 2006 18:19:08 -0800

no, you are understanding the question. i guess the question isnt "how is this legal" but rather "is this ethical." I mean, if a gasoline company sells 10,000 gallons in a month at $3 thats about an extra hundred dollars theyve skimmed (unless wood is correct). Multiply that by 12 months thats $1000 a year.

of course those numbers are completly made up. It was just something ive always been curious about....but yeah, im sure its not technically illegal.

/sorry about the threadjack

By: delfuego

delfuego — Tue, 09 May 2006 18:35:12 -0800

I, for one, would love to hear how this one turns out...

By: plumberonkarst

plumberonkarst — Tue, 09 May 2006 18:41:09 -0800

Go to the station and get a 5 gal. gas can filled and see what the resulting pump volume shows when it is completely full.If it's way off then maybe pursue the discrepancy

By: mendel

mendel — Tue, 09 May 2006 18:57:38 -0800

So the gas stations arent giving people the full amount of gas they paid for. How is this legal?

If the meter says "$5" then you paid for $5 of gas. Sometimes, the gas station gives you more gas for $5, but if the pump says $5 and you paid $5 then the gas station is on the level.

By: denimflavored

denimflavored — Wed, 10 May 2006 12:00:53 -0800

For the Pittsburgers out there - it's the Amoco in Station Square, which is known for having ridiculously high prices (it's a tourist area, I can't blame them). That's why I was so excited to see it for so cheap.
The thing about the reserve... I've had less in my tank before and put less in the car. I've never put in more than 13 gallons, which is why I was shocked to almost get 14 at the pump. I'm not a complaint-happy kind of person, but I'm still a bit aggravated over this.

By: denimflavored

denimflavored — Wed, 10 May 2006 13:42:47 -0800

I just drove past - it's an Exxon. Sorry. Google Local has it listed as an Amoco.