Comments on: what to do about close talkers

Question: what to do about close talkers

Lisa S — Sun, 07 May 2006 17:54:24 -0800

What to do about close talkers?

I feel rude inching away, but it always makes me acutely paranoid. Why do they do it? And what can be done about it? Should I pass on some subtle hint that they're making me uncomfortable? Or just grin and bear it?

By: pieoverdone

pieoverdone — Sun, 07 May 2006 17:57:33 -0800

I once worked with a close talker. He'd move in, I'd inch away. He'd move in again, I'd inch away more. Rinse, repeat. Eventually once he moved in after I inched away and then I stuck my arm out and basically placed a flat palm on his collarbone to halt him from moving in any closer. I don't know if it was because I have an arm's length bubble from people or that he was Mexican and this sort of invasion was culturally acceptable, but that's what it took to make it stop.

By: fire&wings

fire&wings — Sun, 07 May 2006 18:06:50 -0800

Inch forward yourself.

By: tristeza

tristeza — Sun, 07 May 2006 18:22:10 -0800

Oh, god, I feel your pain. My boss (and friend) is a closetalker, and I pretty much just inch away until there's no room to inch, then put a foot out in front of me to block her getting any closer when I'm up, literally, against the wall. Put the foot out perpendicular to your leg, it seems to work a bit.

Once in a while if the moment is right I say something like "dude, why you in my face?" but that of course is based on the situation and my friendship with her that I can say that and not totally freak her out.

By: unSane

unSane — Sun, 07 May 2006 18:25:20 -0800

Different cultures have different default distances. Not that that helps much, but it's true. South and Central American countries tend to have a smaller default personal space. It's quite possible that YOU have made someone else feel uncomfortable without knowing it. Wierd, eh?

By: Loto

Loto — Sun, 07 May 2006 18:38:23 -0800

I'd say try to get used to it. Like unSane said, it is cultural for a lot of people. If they are moving closer while you are inching away, it may be becaue you are making them uncomfortable by trying to increase the distance. In situations like these, I think it is always best to take the more polite position and allow the speaker to choose the distance they are comfortable with.

By: obiwanwasabi

obiwanwasabi — Sun, 07 May 2006 18:52:58 -0800

Step and pivot so you're standing beside them, facing the same way as they are. Spread your feet a little past shoulder width. Put the hand closest to them in your pocket. Carry on the conversation from there, turning your head to talk to them. If they come round front, repeat.

By: hot soup girl

hot soup girl — Sun, 07 May 2006 18:53:36 -0800

I work in retail and deal with this sort of thing from customers upon occasion. My first tactic is to just keep taking a step backwards. Yes, they will then encroach upon the gap you've just made, but if you do it again and again, sometimes they (unconsciously) get the picture. If they don't, and I end up getting chased around the room, I try to put an object between us. If that doesn't work, at that point I've run out of options. Like everyone said, it's cultural - or the sort of ingrained personal trait that people themselves are unaware of.

By: donpedro

donpedro — Sun, 07 May 2006 19:09:04 -0800

I've found that sitting down with legs crossed ("man-style") creates an impenetrable barrier of at least a few feet. One of my closest friends is a close-talker, and I find it amusing. Strangers though, freak me out when they penetrate the ol' personal space.

By: blue_beetle

blue_beetle — Sun, 07 May 2006 19:16:25 -0800

If you can smell their breath (good or bad) they're too close. If you don't want to offend them, just tell them that you'll a bit claustrophobic and like to have lots of space.

By: blue_beetle

blue_beetle — Sun, 07 May 2006 19:16:41 -0800

you'll = you're

By: Effigy2000

Effigy2000 — Sun, 07 May 2006 19:36:58 -0800

What's wrong with simply saying, in a very polite fashion, that these close talkers you have contact with are simply talking far too close to you? I recognise it might very well be easier said than done but the only way people will change behaviours that would, on the face of it, put a great many number of people off, is to actually tell them to change it.

Sure, you run the risk of pissing them off, but I don't see why you should have to suffer in silence while they continue to make you uncomfortable. Human interaction; it's a two way street. Tell the person. Politely. Otherwise nothing will ever change.

By: peeedro

peeedro — Sun, 07 May 2006 19:38:51 -0800

To follow up on blue_beetle, offer them a mint every time they get too close. If they turn it down, insist that they take it. This doesn't really address the close talking, but sends a signal that they were too close for some specific reason. The bad breath self-doubt might buy you some extra space.

By: Myself

Myself — Sun, 07 May 2006 20:09:20 -0800

Try to get them to join you across a table. If they're sitting next to you at a desk, finding chairs with arms should enforce a little spacing.

By: Captaintripps

Captaintripps — Sun, 07 May 2006 20:15:32 -0800

I completely agree with Effigy. In most circumstances a polite "you're a bit to close, if you mind" would probably be in order, even if it's for cultural reasons.

That is unless you're talking to Lyndon Johnson (his passing notwithstanding).

By: drstein

drstein — Sun, 07 May 2006 20:53:14 -0800

Just tell them they're a bit too close. I do that with people, simply because if something is too close to me, I cannot properly focus on it. I've just backed up and said "Sorry, I couldn't see you, you were too close."

By: occhiblu

occhiblu — Sun, 07 May 2006 21:56:47 -0800

I once dated a Russian who was probably a close talker even by Russian standards, let alone American standards. He would laugh at himself when he told me about how he'd start talking to someone, they'd back up, he'd move forward, etc, until they had gone in circles all the way around the room. He was certainly aware he was doing it, and that American conventions said what he was doing was wrong, and he didn't mean to make anyone uncomfortable, but it's hard to undo 30+ years of training.

I would vote for "grin and bear it," unless the perpetrator is somehow horribly offensive to you. I think it's kind of interesting to note my own reactions in those situations, and to work at figuring out why I'm so uncomfortable. Doing so tends to make me realize that there's no threat, and that my own discomfort is just as weird as his "invasion" of my space.

By: Isabeau Sahen

Isabeau Sahen — Sun, 07 May 2006 22:37:46 -0800

Step and pivot so you're standing beside them, facing the same way as they are.

I do a variation on this. Rather than moving right beside the closer talker, I turn my hips at an angle instead of directly forward. With a little torsion so that the shoulders are squarely facing, and the forward foot extended, you make it difficult for them to get close to you without straddling your leg. Lean the torso back for extra distance.

Failing that, I flinch and ask them to give me some room.

By: essexjan

essexjan — Mon, 08 May 2006 00:41:33 -0800

Sneeze.

By: Goofyy

Goofyy — Mon, 08 May 2006 00:51:29 -0800

What drstein said. I am far-sighted and a bit claustrophobic. I have no problem asking someone to stand back, I really can't see them well. If the claustrophobia kicks in, I become hostile to whatever they're saying. So I essentially must ask people to step back.

By: strawberryviagra

strawberryviagra — Mon, 08 May 2006 02:15:55 -0800

I read somewhere that personal proximity (this was in regards to shaking someone's hand) is related to where you're from. Country people tend to stand further away when shaking your hand and city people tend to come in close.

The rationale was environmental noise - ie it's quieter in the country so you're able to stand a bit further back. I guess this also applies to close talkers. It could also be utter bullshit - but it seems to make a bit of sense.

Maybe you could draw attention to it in a curious rather than annoyed way - and say something like "I read this amazing thing on the interweb last night, this incredibly incisive observation about close talking. Let me ask you, did you grow up under the flight path of a major international airport?". Then fart loudly and try and kiss them at the same time.

By: bloo

bloo — Mon, 08 May 2006 02:44:53 -0800

Sneeze.

You made my day.

By: tiamat

tiamat — Mon, 08 May 2006 04:35:50 -0800

Sneeze.

I think this is the best example of social engineering in practice I've ever seen. I will use this from now on.

By: b33j

b33j — Mon, 08 May 2006 05:15:25 -0800

I find things like filing cabinets and desks to put in between me and the closer. I call it personal space and have certainly found country people to need a bigger area (say about 2 metre radius) to city people (30cm radius).

You can use other body language symbols too, like crossing your arms to indicate anger, or, as suggested, just ask people to back away. I've had problems with this though, as my well-meaning colleagues have made it their mission to cure me, and keep trying to hug me.

By: chota

chota — Mon, 08 May 2006 05:50:36 -0800

Sneeze.
This just made my week. I, too, will put this method to good use. Happy Monday.

By: GuyZero

GuyZero — Mon, 08 May 2006 05:58:47 -0800

Maybe all these close talkers have bad hearing, so they're just trying to get closer to hear you. Talk louder. Like, really loud. That should make anyone move back a bit.

By: ObscureReferenceMan

ObscureReferenceMan — Mon, 08 May 2006 06:06:56 -0800

I used to work with a close talker too. And I concur with effigy2000, et al. Say something! Be polite, but definite.

By: languagehat

languagehat — Mon, 08 May 2006 06:16:45 -0800

I'd say try to get used to it. Like unSane said, it is cultural for a lot of people. If they are moving closer while you are inching away, it may be becaue you are making them uncomfortable by trying to increase the distance.

I'm sorry, but being at a greater distance than usual can't possibly make them as uncomfortable as being too close makes the rest of us. I'm all for understanding cultural differences, but simply giving in to ones that make us uncomfortable is just plain masochism. (And that Russian who kept chasing people around even though he knew they didn't like it sounds like he has a touch of sadism. I don't buy the "years of training" thing.) There are some good suggestions here; try them and report back on what works!

By: jon_kill

jon_kill — Mon, 08 May 2006 06:22:21 -0800

Put one hand on his chest, push him back a foot, and ask him to repeat the last thing he just said. Repeat.

By: dagnyscott

dagnyscott — Mon, 08 May 2006 07:07:13 -0800

I'm sorry, but being at a greater distance than usual can't possibly make them as uncomfortable as being too close makes the rest of us.

That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

By: occhiblu

occhiblu — Mon, 08 May 2006 08:37:55 -0800

The Russian was more like an overenthusiastic puppy -- he'd try to remember to be "good" and stand back, but he'd get so caught up in the conversation he'd forget and revert back to what seemed natural for him.

>I'm sorry, but being at a greater distance than usual can't possibly make them as uncomfortable as being too close makes the rest of us.

Imagine trying to have a conversation with someone who kept taking a small step backwards to increase the distance between you. Or imagine seeing someone you wanted to talk to across the room, you both approached each other, and then he stopped about a foot farther away than you would have. Even just think of approaching a friend you're scheduled to meet on the street, and that weird moment when you're close enough to say hi or wave but too far away to really greet each other. Too much distance can make you feel odd and awkward and unsure of how loud you should speak, what you should do with your body, etc.

Conversational distances are completely cultural. Americans tend to require huge distances; I made fun of it when I was working as a tourguide because generally Americans (and mostly suburbanites) would stand so far away from each other that I had to scream to address a group of 20 of them, while the Brits would crowd in at what I had come to consider a "normal" distance.

And the longer I live in cities, the easier it is for me to spot people visiting from the suburbs based on how much space they think they're allowed on the sidewalk, in lines, in stores. Think of the tourists walking too slowly and four abreast on NY sidewalks, completely oblivious to how much room they're taking up.

If the distance thing bothers you, then it bothers you. But you do need to realize that you aren't "right" about it, there are just different standards, most of them culturally determined.

By: Captaintripps

Captaintripps — Mon, 08 May 2006 09:10:28 -0800

And that's why it's best to just say something. Verbally acknowledging the difference will usually make up for any uncomfortability. You're people first, cultural proponents second..

By: InfidelZombie

InfidelZombie — Mon, 08 May 2006 09:47:49 -0800

If I was living in another country and was making people uncomfortable by being so distant, I'd want someone to clue me in. The nicest thing you could do for this person is explain why the Americans they talk to always seem so nervous...

By: FortyT-wo

FortyT-wo — Mon, 08 May 2006 11:21:59 -0800

Can anybody talk about the reasons why people inch forward? I'm really curious. I know if I was speaking to someone, and they stepped back from me, there's no way I'd close in the space. But (very) recently I encountered my first close talker in quite a while... I'd step back and he'd step forward, rinse & repeat. Oddly this closeness was accompanied by a complete lack of eye contact! Wierd.

Anyhow, what makes the close talker not take a hint? Why do they chase you around?

By: languagehat

languagehat — Mon, 08 May 2006 12:06:29 -0800

That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

To you. Try harder.

Imagine trying to have a conversation with someone who kept taking a small step backwards to increase the distance between you.

I can easily imagine that. It would seem weird. Then I would think "Why is this person consistently re-establishing the distance between us?" And a light would go on: "This person feels uncomfortable being any closer!" And no matter how weird I thought it was, I would keep my distance, because I prefer not to make my interlocutors uncomfortable if I can help it.

Of course understand that an "excessive" distance can feel uncomfortable. I'm saying that it can't possibly feel as uncomfortable as excessive closeness. A feeling of separation is simply not as immediate as bad breath and body odor and worries about having one's toes stepped on.

By: occhiblu

occhiblu — Mon, 08 May 2006 12:26:17 -0800

But from this thread, you can see that many people don't consciously realize that people have different comfort levels on it. Many are likely to continue to impose their own "normal" distance unless they consciously think about it.

Of course it's best to be consciously aware of how your tone, volume, distance, words, etc. are affecting your conversational partners. But I don't think you can argue that everyone, or even a majority of people, have that awareness all the time.

Think about volume. If you're talking to someone who's speaking much louder or much more quietly than you, do you always match their volume? Or is one of you thinking, "God, why can't this guy speak up?" while the other's inwardly rolling his eyes and thinking, "I'm standing RIGHT HERE, dude, you don't have to yell." My mother spent years telling my father to lower his voice because he tended to speak too loudly, but he wasn't doing it out of spite; it just wasn't something he was always consciously aware of. And when he wasn't thinking about it specifically, he fell back into he patterns he was comfortable with.

Conversational distance, in my experience, can also fit into that category. You just keep trying to unconsciously impose what you consider to be a comfortable distance, without really thinking about what you're doing.

By: beth

beth — Mon, 08 May 2006 22:58:56 -0800

Tell the deejay to put on The Police - "Please don't stand so close to me". See if they take the hint.