How to cope with an angry mate

May 5, 2006 8:38 PM

Does anyone have any insight into living/coping with a mate who has unpredictable angry outbursts and a mean streak? Not a first marriage for either of us. . . 3 kids that are mine(2) and ours(1). Thought he was my long-awaited dream come true.

Our relationship seems to have devolved over the past year as financial stress has increased; we've been together for 18 months. He never, to my knowledge, has lied to me, but there were money issues from his past that he didn't tell me about. I put my name (and my good credit) on a mortgage. . . long story short, the house was lost, my credit blemished and he has been unemployed for 6 months. I am very angry with both him and myself. When we argue -- or even just try to discuss something seemingly safe -- he can suddenly reach a point where he doesn't seem to be hearing my words any longer and he gets mean, derisive, verbally abusive. He does have depression, has for years, and he takes a high dose (200 mg) of Zoloft. We have been in counseling, but I don't feel that it's making a big difference. My own feelings of self-confidence and self-worth have plummetted. I have been trying very hard to make this relationship work, more and more for the reason that I don't want to put my older kids through any more trauma than necessary. I do love my husband and, lest I make him sound like a beast, he is highly intelligent, fairly insightful, usually thoughful and very frustrated about not being able to land a job. Could his depression explain his Jekyll & Hyde behavior? Does anyone out there live with a mate who's got characteristics like this? Any advice?

posted by anonymous to human relations (17 comments total)

Does he drink? If he does, is there any correlation with the timing of the drinking and the raging?
posted by caddis at 8:52 PM on May 5, 2006

When he gets to the point of screaming and and lashing out, maybe you could try calming explaining that the conversation is going no where and that is not how you talk to the woman you love. When he's ready to discuss things rationally you'll be ready, but until then, his expression of anger is unexceptable and maybe he should take it outside so he doesn't frighten the kids.

As far as being unemployed for 6 months...that strikes me as unexceptable. If someone has the means to end one job and find work that is up the their standards, then good for them...but it sounds like your situation is a bit more dire than that. Why doesn't he get a job at Walmart or 7-11 or something. No one wants to work for $6.00 and hour but that's better than no money, right? Although, if he's this angry now I'd hate to see what changes would happen if had to swallow his pride to take shit from customers all day.

Could depression explain this? Um. sure. Should it? Hell no. Everyone is screwed up in one way or another. If he's that hightly medicated and in counseling then it seems more like he's chosing to not be mature about things...or rather, he's not chosing to fix it which is by default chosing to treat you this way.

I don't want to put my older kids through any more trauma than necessary.
Then why keep them in the house with a man who you deem abusive? What do think they are learning from this? I'll tell you what I learned from my father calling my mom fat, ugly, and worthless...I learned that he's a prick who never believe what he told me about how women should be treated. I learned that my mother was a doormat. Finally, I learned that is just the way lovers talk to each other. I took years to unlearn that last one.

A few follow up questions, what are the ages of the children? What relationship do your kids have with their birth father? What relationship do you have with your ex? What relationship does he have with his first wife? Does he take his anger out on the children? Is he left alone with the kids?

Oh, and not discussing money problems before you enter into a marriage is effectively lying about said problems.
posted by nadawi at 8:57 PM on May 5, 2006

He could try a temp agency for work, it will give him something to do other then just feel sorry for himself, and it will allow him to produce some cash as well. That is not a fix for your situation at all but it could be a step in the right direction while he is looking for a real job.
posted by BobbyDigital at 8:59 PM on May 5, 2006

being unable to provide for your family and loved ones can be very stressful. perhaps a little empathy for the unspoken and perhaps unrealized feelings of male impotency of the non-sexual variety? you only hurt the ones you love, and very reliably it's for the exact opposite reason it comes across as.

support, thick and thin, all that. less responding to his feelings and being a compatriot in the melancholy, and more being the rock he may need independent of how he feels.

wild speculation based on wild premises.
posted by kcm at 9:03 PM on May 5, 2006

Even if he's not throwing stuff...lots of good advice here as well.
posted by nadawi at 9:07 PM on May 5, 2006

When he's calm, does he acknowledge or admit that he has these outbursts?

His medication could need adjustment, but he would need to discuss the problem with his psychiatrist (and a psychiatrist would probably be better for this kind of thing than a family doctor, I think). Sometimes medications stop working as well after a while, and a downturn in circumstances might make that more likely.

I am not a psychiatrist, but I do live with a self-described fruitcake (his medical diagnosis uses somewhat more formal terminology).
posted by dilettante at 9:11 PM on May 5, 2006

Any advice?

Yes. Tomorrow, when he's calm and rational, have a conversation. Don't "confront" him; just talk, honestly, wife to husband. Tell him how you feel, how his behavior makes you feel, and ask him to stop. (Surely you already have. Do it again.) He'll agree with you, obviously, because he loves you and he doesn't want to lose his temper and insult you.

Explain that you're going to try a new tactic. Next time he loses his temper, you're going to control yours. You're going to calmly remind him how that behavior makes you feel, that you've asked him not to behave that way, and that he agreed to try. (Hit "try," because it comes across less like an accusation than, "You broke your promise!")

It'll work. Assuming he's a good guy who sincerely wants to overcome his problem, it'll work — maybe not the first time, but eventually and probably sooner rather than later. Don't threaten to walk away if he doesn't immediately calm down, and don't make it part of an ultimatum. The tactic is simply, when he loses his temper, to ignore "the Hulk" (if you will) and appeal calmly and lovingly to the good guy inside. If you'll pardon the guaranteed flamebait: It's the Christian response, turning the other cheek, and it's survived a few thousand years because it works.
posted by cribcage at 9:15 PM on May 5, 2006

Although I have never been subjected to the same degree of stresses as your husband, I also have depression and have exhibited very similar behavior (Derisive, inconsiderate, cruel) as what you describe.

To me it sounds like he's cycling between guilt and resentment. He feels bad about the unemployment, it angers him, he takes it out on you, he feels bad about misdirecting, he turns that guilt into more anger against you, ad nauseam.

Right now being a prick is the easiest way for him to assert some sort of control over his life.

He needs to break this cycle. He needs a job, he needs to spend some time one on one with a psychiatrist - the couple counseling is great, but I don't think you'll make very much progress until he moves forward on his own - and he should probably have his prescription reassessed.

He also needs a wake-up call. Keeping the kids in an environment like that is just not good for them, even if the alternative scares you. You're not doing them any favors.
I'm not suggesting you leave him, that's the last option. But you need to act now before it's the only choice left to you.

Work on building a support system with your friends and family. It's a tricky balancing act to help someone empower himself while at the same time illustrate how easily his current behavior is jeopardizing everything. On a certain level he recognizes the absurdity and destructiveness of his behavior; instead of admitting it and moving forward, he's allowing it to fuel his anger and frustration.

Articulating it constructively and in a healthy manner will be the first step towards escaping from that cycle, and though the road will still be rocky, at least he won't be spinning his wheels anymore.*


*Apologies for the awful metaphor :)
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 9:55 PM on May 5, 2006

Our relationship seems to have devolved over the past year...we've been together for 18 months.

Do I understand you correctly? The relationship has been going downhill since month 6? And since then he been the source of serious emotional and financial chaos with no clear end in sight?

Despite any risk of sounding callous, it must be said: if you two haven't sustained a happy and non-volatile relationship beyond the first 6 months, then it's time to consider the possibility that (suggested gently...) this relationship isn't meant to be.

It's worrying that you've described patterns of behavior that are similar to the escalating verbal and emotional abuse that is often a prelude to domestic violence. Am I saying your husband is about to start beating on you or the kids? No. I'm not in a position to know. But you do know what it feels like when he's "angry", "mean", etc. And you already find "verbal abuse" an appropriate description. Know what the warning signs of domestic violence are and do NOT second-guess yourself if you ever feel afraid of him. Grab the kids and get out, period. Remind yourself that an intelligent, insightful, thoughtful man WILL be able to grasp why you were frightened; and remind yourself that a loving father WILL appreciate that you protected the kids from facing down behavior too frightening for even an adult.

However, even if there's not a hint of abuse, you've still got a deeply unhappy man who is making you an unhapppy woman. You hope to protect the older kids from trauma, but what if this stressful homelife is causing them pain too? If you're determined to continue trying to rebuild that dream relationship you enjoyed at the beginning, ask yourself whether his behavior demonstrates an equal will to change. Your support can mean a lot for him if he's struggling. Yet only he can change how he deals with his frustration and depression. Ultimately, if he's not doing the work to make that happen, you've got some tough decisions ahead.

This is the kind of very difficult situation that a mental health professional is meant for. Aside from the counseling you are getting as a couple, find someone to consult individually and be very frank about what's going on at home.
posted by nakedcodemonkey at 9:59 PM on May 5, 2006

anonymous, I'm wondering if your husband has any reliable friends or family of good character, with whom he regularly interacts. One of the things about modern American life that is seriously dysfunctional is that in many cases, unemployed adult men have virtually no social organizations from whom they get normative interaction and feedback.

The lack of a role in organizations outside the family can be pretty emotionally and psychologically disruptive to anyone, especially if work has been the main, or the only, source of productive validation. If your husband doesn't have other roles outside your immediate family, he could improve the situation enormously by getting some, while he looks for work. But it's not easy for unemployed men who perhaps haven't been "joiners" in their adult lives to actively become such later in life.

Still, some guys can use "downtime" to become a Little League coach, whereas before, they'd never have been able to make practices after work. Others can find ways of becoming involved in community programs like Meals on Wheels, going so far as to find a sponsor to defray vehicle and gas costs for the routes they take on.

My point is to just to point out to you, as you must do for him, that mental health and balance depend to a great degree on being involved with and of importance to others. Whatever he does to do this, while looking for "real" work, will serve to help balance him in your relationship, and take pressure off you.
posted by paulsc at 11:24 PM on May 5, 2006

I'm one of those guys like Alvy. I tend to internalize my anger and choke it back until I erupt on the people I love. (Usually, ok, invariably, my irrational rage is directed toward my wife of thirteen years.)

I have felt the same frustrations that your husband feels. I feel many of them today. I've just gone through a rough patch with my wife, and I'm happy to say we've come out stronger and better. At least we listen to each now, which is huge.

Before, I would rant and scream and get red in the face and my wife would coolly turn away and not acknowledge me and it made me batshit crazy. Later, she would fume and pout and throw stuff and I would play it off, thinking tit for tat.

We both realized that we were playing into each others' pathologies. Her script (you know, the "how-families-behave" script that you have in your head by the time you are ten) read that Dad drinks and yells, Mom covers and fluffs. Much older siblings provide role models. So her reaction to my bad behavior was to compensate by being superresponsible and attentive. But she hated me when I got like that, so she had to walk away. My script, however, says that everyone yells and points, all sulk, truce is called, things are hashed out. I'm an only, and everyone exists for my amusement. So my reaction to her bad behavior to was to play mind games and reestablish the status I'd previously held before losing my shit the last time.

Actually talking thorugh all this with my wife took:
a) appropriate herbal supplements
b) dinner at a nice restaurant
c) enough alcohol to prime the pump, not enough to drench it
d) pointlessly epic argument when we got home followed by sweet sweet love
e) learning to enjoy grudge fucking. It's really helped my marriage.

Let me clarify (but that was really cathartic to write, thanks for asking). Let's say you wake up in the middle of the night. Outside, a car and driver and moving vans with crews of movers are waiting silently. Your husband is sound asleep, and you know he will sleep soundly for hours yet. The driver of your car has all the papers you need to make the divorce legit and final and fair. All you have to do is sign them, amending them as you see fit. You have your pick of places to live, and your housing is guaranteed. You will never see your husband again on any occasion not of your own choosing.

Is this an opportunity, or a temptation?

If it's a temptation, keep him and take the good advice offered above. If he's a smart guy with a good heart, he'll shape up. If it's an opportunity, then your heart and your head are telling you to go, and all that remains is surmounting the very real difficulties of sorting out a marriage in court.

Loving him unconditionally won't make him a better husband. It may make you a better wife. But it won't make him the man you're supposed to love unconditionally. Discovering the capacity in oneself for unconditional love is revelatory and crippling. It's supposed to be that way.

Also, if he's a reasonably intelligent person who's out of work, I can find him a job waiting tables tomorrow. He'll bring home anywhere from $50-$100 a day.
posted by BitterOldPunk at 11:57 PM on May 5, 2006 [1 favorite]

Some people yell and scream and say horrible things to those they love. It is there way of dealing with different things. Other people consider this behavior the sign of the end or the precursor to violence. My first partner was Brooklyn-Italian. I'm a midwestern WASP. Guess who yelled? Now, guess who had to learn to yell back? (Just in case this might be applicable).

What kcm said, and said so well.

Life has got your husband by the balls, and it really hurts. Yea, this could be handled better.

Of course it is entirely possible you've made a terrible mistake, and the guy is a looser and a user. I once moved in with a guy and it lasted about 3 weeks. He got mean once and scared me (he was a drinker). He wouldn't apologize the next day. Monday came, he went to work. I packed and was gone in 5 hours. A man might get loud and scary. If they think that's justified, after things cool down, you have got to write them off.
posted by Goofyy at 2:58 AM on May 6, 2006

Sounds like the zoloft is pooping out, too.

Been there, done that, got the tshirt, packed it, moved out for six months.

Things are MUCH BETTER now.
posted by konolia at 6:41 AM on May 6, 2006

I can be like that myself if I'm under extreme stress, and believe me, not being able to land a job can mean extreme stress and a looming sense of failure, worthlessness. The slightest perceived attack on someone in an already-vulnerable state can precipitate a blow-up, like a wounded animal snapping at the veterinarian's hands.

Since you have explicitly asked what YOU can do, I would suggest that you attempt to perceive his outbursts as his own little mental disorder. He cannot control his anger, he cannot keep perspective, he is buckling under stress and losing it. This may be quite a feat of compassion, but if you can pull it off, his outbursts will cease to be about you, and appear to be more about his own crumbling state of mind and emotional sanity.

If you can get to that point, he'll yell and it will bounce off you. Chances are that right now you're both spiraling downward together. He yells, you get hurt and say something he doesn't like, he yells again, you leave the room in tears, he feels guilty/blamed and it all just gets worse. You never want to be in a place with your mate where you have to "be the grownup," but somebody's got to get above the fray.
posted by scarabic at 9:44 AM on May 6, 2006

He never, to my knowledge, has lied to me.

Um, yes he did. If you lost the house and sank your credit rating based on the fact that he hid things from you about his finances - that would be lying in my book.

Does anyone out there live with a mate who's got characteristics like this?

Yes, people do it all the time. It's called being in an abusive relationship.

Any advice?

Stop making excuses for him and leave?

Sorry to sound harsh, but this scenario scares me. Look at the words you've written, and imagine they were written by a friend about her relationship. Wouldn't your reaction be, "yikes"? 18 months is not a long time. You had a good 6 months, then a lousy 12 months.

You already know he deceived you about his finances at the beginning. It seems likely he deceived you about his character too - anyone can look like a dream come true for 6 months. That's what they call the honeymoon period. It has ended.
posted by selfmedicating at 6:28 PM on May 6, 2006

I know I'm a little late here....hope you read this.

One word: ZOLOFT.

Depression to Zoloft to Extreme Rage is something that I experienced. I did not understand until someone pointed me to several studies that show that extreme agitation/rage (Akathisia) and the anti-depressant (SSRI) connection. Especially with Zoloft. With that said, he should not just stop taking the stuff as all hell would break loose. It needs to be tapered. Big Pharma has lied in its attempt to hide the addictive nature of SSRIs. It is real.

I urge you to run - don't walk - to a good bookstore and buy a book called, The Anti-Depressant Solution by Dr. Joseph Glenmullen.
If you cannot find the book on the shelves, you can go to Amazon and this particular book has the "search inside" feature, which will allow you to read several pages. Put "Akathisia" in the search box and begin reading at the first reference. It is a mind-opener.

Brain chemistry has been altered. That's not an excuse, that's the truth. The lie of the "safe" SSRI (especially with its connection to uncontrollable rage) should be known by all. However, few doctors even understand the basics of how SSRIs work, their side-effects, tolerance, etc....as far as how to change, stop or taper them, it's even worse. Read that book - and good luck.

Gerard
posted by Gerard Sorme at 2:26 PM on May 7, 2006

If someone is speaking to you like this after eighteen months of being together, it is only going to get worse. What you have described is bad enough to make a person leave, and be utterly justified in doing so. It is. I am so sorry that you are going through this.

Please feel free to email me at the address in my profile, anon -- I have some more to add that I can't really say online, but which might help out.
posted by jennyjenny at 7:44 AM on May 8, 2006