How to handle losing?

May 5, 2006 5:42 PM

My son can't handle losing. Help?

My eight (going on nine in June) year old son can't handle losing at games. Not only that, he can't handle making mistakes very well, either, for example, when I point out that he has made one mistake in a math homework assignment, he will get very very frustrated to the point of crying sometimes. He has always been like this ever since I can remember.
Recently, however, he got into a very big fight with some of his friends at school. Fortunately, no one was hurt too badly, but I had to call one of the other boys' mother and talk with her because my son apparently kicked the boy several times and he was shaken. I was told by his teacher that the reason for the fight was that my son and his friends were playing kickball during recess and my son's team lost, and when the boy on the winning team (the same one that got kicked) taunted my son about it, he just snapped and started what turned out to be a very violent fist fight. Now, this was during school hours so I wasn't there to see any of it, so all the information I have to go on to figure out what exactly happened are the explanations given by my son, his friend, the other kids who were there and their teacher. But my son has gotten himself into such fights before in the past, and to me it sounds like his reaction to such situations is getting worse, which worries me a lot.
To tell the truth, I used to hate losing, too, and was a very sore loser when I was his age. But I don't think I ever hit anybody or got into a physical fight because of it, and I got over it with age. But then again, I'm not and never was a boy, so I'm not sure if my experience can be compared to my son's. My husband tells me he was never like that when he was younger (initiated fights over similar reasons), so we're not sure what to think.
I think it's the physical outbursts that really worry me. I really don't want my son or his friends to get hurt, so I've tried to reason with him. I've tried punishing him (taking away his favorite pastimes for about a week or so). He always seems to understand what I'm saying to him and seems to be genuinely sorry after doing what he did, but after a couple of months of nothing happening, I get a call from his teacher telling me he's done it again. When I ask him why he did it, he tells me that he knew he shouldn't, but that he couldn't help it.
My question is, is this normal behavior for an eight-year-old boy? Do you have any suggestions as to what we could do to help my son control his emotions? Also, if you could recommend me some reading I could do on the subject, that would be helpful, too. Thank you for reading this long post, and for your help in advance.

posted by misozaki to human relations (25 comments total)

Maybe interest him in a board game that will require a lot of losing to get good at? To de-sensitize him. I reccomend Go, which is widely held (in Japan anyway) to be character building. It's also extremely easy to learn the rules.
posted by phrontist at 5:54 PM on May 5, 2006

Oh, and it doesn't sound normal to me, but I have no experience in such matters.
posted by phrontist at 5:56 PM on May 5, 2006

By the way, FYI, otherwise my son is a very outgoing and smart kid who loves playing soccer and reading.
posted by misozaki at 5:56 PM on May 5, 2006

FWIW: This is not normal in the sense that most kids do not have this problem anywhere near this severely. It is normal in the sense that every kid takes it a little personally when they lose. My experience is primarily from working on a summer camp for about five years with kids of all ages.

It seems to me your kid takes these losses so hard because he takes them as a judgment on his entire self-worth. He doesn't understand that *everyone* makes these mistakes, and that it's okay and part of the learning process.

So. Step one. I assume you've had a talk with him and explained that, right? If not, do it now. Speak to him like an adult, and explain that this is how people learn, and that everyone doesn't win all the time.

Do this repeatedly, every time he makes a mistake and takes it personally. Reassure him that you love him. Tell him about how you used to make the same kind of mistakes all the time. Keep pushing that it's okay. (at the same time, you should be pushing equally hard on the fact that getting into fist-fights over losing is *not* okay.)

Step two, if step one is a failure? Hm. I can't help much. Whenever it's come up, step one has usually been enough (but then, I've never dealt with the problem when it was this severe). I leave that to the rest of MeFi. And possibly a talk with a child psychologist.
posted by kingjoeshmoe at 6:12 PM on May 5, 2006

I was much the same at that age (maybe a little older), and yes, it was a very trying time for me and my parents, for several years, until I grew out of it.

I think you may be conflating a couple of things though -- it isn't just losing, but the frustration of that compounded with being taunted by others, that really sets him off. Kids that age are relentless and won't stop prodding until they get a reaction.

Go sounds like a great idea, along with any other games that are over fast (where losing isn't much of a big deal -- you can just play again). In general, I was a lot happier with noncompetitive or creative activities, and still am...
posted by xil at 6:16 PM on May 5, 2006

Both my children saw losing as a blow to themselves and their self-esteem. Losing, as they saw it, meant they were inferior. So we would talk about things like that. We'd play a game of chess, and I would win and they would get upset and slowly I would ask them questions like, how long do you think I've been playing, is it reasonable that you would be as skilled as me in such a short time, what sort of things can you do to improve your skills? I think it's important to use words like skills, not good or better, because we tie so much worth into being a good person.

I'd ask them questions about whether it was okay to lose, and if not, why not? (And someone usually has to lose, what does that mean for that person?) And yep, with obvious vocabulary changes, I was talking that way to my kids before they started school. Quite often, people can understand a lot more than they can articulate.

We discussed what we liked about having friends, and how to be a good friend, and if something came up (on tv or elsewhere) where I had the opportunity to point out good sportsmanship (oh, look, he lost, but he's smiling and shaking hands with the winner), i would, to normalise the behaviour.

I think the behaviour is very normal and understandable in this world where sports (and other competition) is so highly regarded. Good luck to both of you.
posted by b33j at 6:16 PM on May 5, 2006

Chances are - again, we have a sparse factual record here, so I'm assuming a lot - that it's the humiliation of taunting, not the losing, that's setting him off.

Does he like baseball? I ask because you can learn a lot from the sport. It's essentially a game of trying to minimize failure. If a batter screws up thirteen out of every twenty times he steps up to the plate, he's doing an outstanding job. If a pitcher screws up three times in a game (by allowing an earned run) he's doing an outstanding job. Then there's the arbitrariness of slumps and streaks: if A-Rod goes 1 for 20 during a week-long stretch, he still makes his $15 million; everyone knows he'll turn it around eventually.

Analogies like this can change one's perspective to glass-half-full. I can only imagine that his classmates are exaggerating the impact of the "loss" through taunting and for an 8 year old that can set the shrug-it-off worldview off kilter.
posted by Saucy Intruder at 6:19 PM on May 5, 2006

I had this problem when I was young, and I can see it happening in my young brother. It unfortunately is very closely tied to high expectations from the parents. If you expect a lot from your kids, they will expect a lot from themselves. I don't have a solution for you, and I don't think you should relax your expectations of your children, but maybe if you're aware of the pressures you're putting on him . . .
posted by ohio at 6:44 PM on May 5, 2006

You might want to look into a book called Mindset by Carol Dweck that was recently published. The author is a researcher who studied why some children get frustrated at challenges, and others enjoy them. She found that when children are praised for being intelligent, they will often limit their efforts and be easily frustrated. But if you praise the process, it's a self reinforcing reward.
posted by fcain at 6:49 PM on May 5, 2006

His extreme difficulty accepting loss is similar to what perfectionists go through. Perhaps one of the books/resources oriented to them would also be helpful to your son.

Given his age, I'd also try giving him a window on more of your own goofs, losses, disappointments, etc. Show him that it's an ongoing life experience, which gets accepted with a grimace or a shrug but doesn't unravel your self-confidence.

From your description, it sounds like he's wrestling with two problems, though: the problem accepting internal disappointments, and the problem controlling outward eruptions of anger. The first just sets him up neatly for the latter. For the anger management, counseling is really worth considering. But since you asked specifically for books, here's a list that looks promising.
posted by nakedcodemonkey at 7:22 PM on May 5, 2006

You might also think about getting him involved in some activities/ sports where the emphasis is not on winning. I ride horses as a kid and skateboarded, both activiites that you can spend years at and still basically suck but they're fun. It's quite humbling and also quite relaxing to realise that life is a journey and all that.
posted by fshgrl at 7:36 PM on May 5, 2006

Erikson's developmental stage for ages 6 to 11, industry vs. inferiority, is about self-worth and it's connection with activities. It's important for kids your son's age to perform something useful within the company of their peers.

Your child's behavior is normal; he is in the process of learning how to handle the difference in what he wants to happen and what actually happens. It's great that you are working to guide him in the best way to come to terms with that.

Helping Schoolchildren Cope with Anger was a textbook I used a while back - it's kind of academic-y but pretty solid research based solutions.

A friend of mine loves this person's books: No More Misbehavin': 38 Difficult Behaviors & How to Stop Them may be a little more user friendly.

I really like b33j's answer. Good luck!
posted by dog food sugar at 8:16 PM on May 5, 2006

It seems to me your kid takes these losses so hard because he takes them as a judgment on his entire self-worth. He doesn't understand that *everyone* makes these mistakes, and that it's okay and part of the learning process.

This is what I came in here to say!

Maybe interest him in a board game that will require a lot of losing to get good at?

One thing that's particularly good about Go is that it's very simple to handicap one player, essentially by letting the other player start with several free moves at the beginning. You could try playing Go with him, alternating who plays with the huge handicap. Ask him before each game "Who do you think is going to win?" with the only reasonable answer being "the one who got the nine free stones".

You could also play the two of you teamed against his father, and give his father a few free stones. "We're going to lose, but let's still do the best we can."

(IANAchild psychologist!)
posted by Aknaton at 8:17 PM on May 5, 2006

Those kids who taunt him on the playground are only doing it because they know it will set him off. He's like the class firecracker and all the kids compete to see who can light the fuse every day. You need to teach your son how to reframe failure. Overcoming failure is the most important thing we can learn in life and the way a person views failure is usually the gateway to becoming successful in life.

I used to be the same way. Every at bat was a life and death situation and was a judgement on my reason for existence. Unfortunately I grew out of it by not caring so much anymore - and that kinda sucked because I think I had some great potential - but something had to give. I never really lost the judgement of my existence thing when losing at something competitive, until I picked up a great book called: The Pleasure of Small Motions. I picked it up because I was playing a lot of pool at the time and was getting very good at it but I was consistently choking when the game was on the line. The book explores the psychological side of the game and I'd figured it would give me some tricks so could focus more and relax when the pressure was on. What the book did for me was change my life. Here's some of the wisdom:

Frustration from losing is mostly a function of inflated expectations, most of us think we are much better than we actually are. Winning is something that develops from incremental improvements. These are the only things you can control. The only person you should be competing against is your former self. Play the game to enjoy the game first and foremost. If you're playing just to win then you need a new game. There so much more to enjoy in sports than just winning.

Always use each competition as a way to find things you need to improve on. This way even a loss can be productive and lead to a much more focused practice the next day. If your son sees competition as an opportunity to gauge how much he has improved then he can achieve a victory even within a loss. This is probably the most important lesson I learned from the book. I now see every competitive situation I face as an opportunity to see if I can do a little better than I did the last time. When I'm done I'm careful to make mental and written notes on where I succeeded and where I failed and look for ways I can improve both. This way I'm always moving forward regardless - then winning just becomes a function of good habits and awareness.
posted by any major dude at 8:38 PM on May 5, 2006

Here are some quotes that you might want to tack up around the house:

Success is going from failure to failure without a loss of enthusiasm - Winston Churhill

A man of genius makes no mistakes, his errors are volitional and are portals of discovery. - James Joyce, Ulysses
posted by any major dude at 8:47 PM on May 5, 2006

My question is, is this normal behavior for an eight-year-old boy?

There is no "normal." There's "abnormal," which your son's behavior isn't — but "normal" is a spectrum sufficiently broad that it's moot.

Also consider that most kids confront issues of bullying, social aggression, whatever you want to call it, at some point — and frankly, if you think in terms of what personality traits will help him to become a healthy, successful adult, be glad he's starting the fights rather than losing them. Make no mistake: The grass on the other side is less green.

Finally, remember that he's eight. Remember the lesson you probably learned when your baby had his first fever. Lots of parents face lots of issues that they imagine will have dire and dramatic consequences...but ultimately it turns out that the kid's just eight and he grows out of it.

Take a breath. Good luck.
posted by cribcage at 8:55 PM on May 5, 2006

Thank you all so much for your kind words and suggestions. I'll definitely take the time to read through all the links you have provided and try to get a hold of the suggested reading. And my husband's father knows Go, so I'll ask him to teach us how to play, and see how my son takes to it.
I find it's really hard to put things into perspective when our son is concerned, because he's our only child and my husband and I both have no background in dealing with other children in any way. I'm not sure if we expect too much from our son; I didn't think we did, but maybe we are pressuring him in ways we didn't realize. I guess I have a lot of growing to do, too, alongside my son. Thank you again.
posted by misozaki at 10:06 PM on May 5, 2006

If he has any interest, you might also take him for judo or karate lessons. He'll learn a combination of respect for others, self-control, and physical skills that will help him control himself in confrontational situations, or avoid them all together, without being unduly afraid of himself or others. Eight is old enough to begin training in most dojos.
posted by paulsc at 11:03 PM on May 5, 2006

Is your son an only child?

I ask because having siblings, especially ones close to your emotional and mental age certainly helps one get used to losing.
posted by k8t at 6:06 AM on May 6, 2006

I was going to suggest a martial art, but I see paulsc has already hit that. If I was going to suggest a specific art, by all means look into aikido, judo or karate. All martial arts focus on self-control, but these three in particular (especially aikido!) are more passive in nature, and can be a real benefit in terms of learning to control emotions and keeping a situation from escalating.

I think the best thing you can do for him is to keep putting him in situations where he's challenged (and loses). I played AYSO soccer since I was 5, and if you have a similar sports league (competitive but teams are re-divided each season, "everyone plays" mentality) I couldn't recommend this enough.

I have a great friend who had temper control problems when he was younger, but for the most part he's cooled off as he's hit his 20s.
posted by onalark at 6:23 AM on May 6, 2006

I had some anger management issues as a young kid, until I got into tennis and softball/baseball. Those were sports where I could HIT something, and was encouraged to HIT something hard and rewarded when I HIT something.

It was a good way to channel my desire to HIT something (or someone) in a socially-acceptable way.

I've also taught my 10-year-old daughter that while it is not okay to hit or kick her friends or the dog, it is fine to go in her room to hit or kick her pillow.

And I concur with the martial arts suggestions for learning self-control and confidence. Taekwondo is good option.
posted by SuperSquirrel at 8:29 AM on May 6, 2006

I, too, was coming here to suggest a martial art. Not only will it stress self control, but also may provide a way for him to (harmlessly) get some agression, anger, or frustration out of his system.
posted by anastasiav at 9:01 AM on May 6, 2006

I'm going to look at this from a different angle as everyone else. The problem isn't that he freaks out when he loses or gets taunted, the problem is the violent outbursts. That's what needs to stop, obviously.

If I were you I would tell him something that 'taunting' is like a game, and you 'lose' the game of taunting if you lose your cool, because it basically is.

Tell him that by relaxing and letting the taunts go right by him, he'll "win". If you wanted too, you could tell him that he ought to taunt back, maybe? Doing that could cause your son to be more of an asshole later in life, though (I would imagine).
posted by delmoi at 3:21 PM on May 6, 2006

Regarding martial arts, we actually tried to get our son to begin karate about three years ago because we thought it would be a good outlet/disciplinary experience for him (yes, he already showed traits similar to what I described in my post), and we figured we might as well get him started early. Unfortunately, he didn't enjoy it all and we had to let him quit after only a couple of months. But maybe he was just too little at the time, so I'll ask him if he'd be interested in trying it again, or some other martial art, since there are plenty to choose from here in Japan. I really appreciate everybody's suggestions and hope I don't have to try all of them before we see some progress!
posted by misozaki at 5:03 AM on May 7, 2006

ugh. only child. so was I. the weight of expectations thrust upon me by my parents really crushed my ability to effectively relate and socialise with my peers as a kid because I felt like my every action was being judged by its outcome.

only children are a challenge. I'm NOT saying you're like my parents, just that I can relate to being in the only-child white-hot spotlight. imo they kinda sucked at the whole parenting thing, but we've moved on and I dealt with it in my adult life.

be aware that kids without siblings have no real basis of perspective in performance. it's all on them. when stuff goes well, they're the centre of attention. when stuff goes wrong, the shit landslide ends up on them. there's no one else to blame or share the load and it gets old.

and I'm sorry to whomever recommended baseball as a worthwhile sport... have you ever seen the poor sportsmanship engaged in by the parents in little league? omg. anyway in my personal experience there's no better way to learn rotten sportsmanship than by joining a baseball / softball league.

it's cool that you recognise early on that your son is acting out a bit. the taunting is indeed a reaction by his peers to yank his chain because it's so easy to do. sounds like you're doing fine.

keep in mind: your son is not the repository for all your dreams, nor is he put in this world to answer for your own failures. not saying that you're doing this, but honestly I wish someone had sat my folks down and had this talk with them.

also, one of the best things I ever learned about how to not take every failure personally was from an old retired master sergeant I worked with once. his favourite saying: 'only way to really learn how to do something the right way is to f*ck it up real good.'

pragmatism. it's the hardest lesson to learn or teach sometimes.
posted by lonefrontranger at 5:40 PM on May 8, 2006