Nah, just skip this question.

May 4, 2006 2:41 AM

Help me cope with my parents all-pervasive negativity.

I've recently become aware of the deep-seated negative thought patterns of my parents. No matter what I -or anyone else in our household for that matter- do, they always find a way to drive it into the ground. I only started noticing all that negativity while researching what could be the cause of my low self-esteem.

An example: I like eating tasty food and had decided to attend a couple of cooking classes. When I mentioned this to my parents, they first started to ridicule the concept of me being able to cook in any way whatsoever, then they told me those classes would not be worth their price and finally they said I might as well learn to cook at home.

Before I was sufficiently aware of this depressing behaviour I just abandoned my plans I happened to have at the time and stayed at home. You can imagine this passivity has not made me the most charismatic guy in town. Now I try to give rational responses as to why I want to do the things I want to do. Still, I find it very exhausting to put up with all the putdowns. Any advice on how to handle this situation?

posted by koenie to human relations (33 comments total)

I, myself, have never been successful at this technique, in dealing with negative parents, but I've heard other people use it to great success. So the trick is to say, respectfully, "oh, is that so, that's interesting," and then go ahead and do what you planned to originally. The sooner you begin implementing this, the better. Of course, this only applies to safe, sensible and legal behaviours.

There's no point to arguing with people for whom the world is terrible. You can't change their mind. But don't let them steal your good times. Good luck.
posted by b33j at 2:47 AM on May 4, 2006

I would recommend seeing a counselor to work through how you respond to your parents. You can't change them, but you can change how you react to them emotionally. However if you've been dealing with this your whole life, it will probably take some work to move past it.
posted by tastybrains at 3:21 AM on May 4, 2006

Some of the best advice I've gotten in regards to dealing with parents is that you can't change the way someone feels. They have to want to change. They've obviously been doing this for a very long time, and you have tried to explain and reason and ration with them. It hasn't helped, and it won't. I think you should accept that you are not responsible for how they feel, and that it also has nothing to do with you and your ambitions. It's just how they are. When you just accept it and distance yourself from it, it can be easier to ignore it and get on with life.
posted by Juliet Banana at 3:27 AM on May 4, 2006

I would find an appropriate moment to broach the subject, and do so as gently as possible. Talk about how you feel, and try to avoid making accusations, or characterizations of their behavior. Give them some time to adjust, and remind them, but ultimately if the behavior persists and they aren't trying to accomodate your needs, stop discussing things with them. Keep in mind that the issue is not their beliefs, which they have a right to, but how voicing them is affecting you.

If it is a situation where you are discussing with a third party and negative people are present, I think that being consciously aware of the problem is really the key. When it happens, I say absolutely nothing and allow an uncomfortable silence to occur, while the words reverberate in the conversational atmosphere. Meanwhile I remind myself silently that this is their problem, not mine. This is especially effective when there are other people present, as the reactions of witnesses will often serve to embarrass the speaker. Another tack is simply to keep talking as though they hadn't even spoken. Conveys the point that what they are saying isn't worth hearing. Ultimately, if there is noone but the negative folks around, I'll often use that as my cue to depart, and limit my exposure to such folks.
posted by Manjusri at 3:30 AM on May 4, 2006

This is about your parents wanting to feel useful, and being uncomfortable with your independence. You could help to make them feel better by asking their advice anytime you think it might be useful to you. Chances are, they do actually have a positive contribution to make to your life, but you'll need to give them an opportunity.

If you're doing something new, like taking cooking classes, try to make them feel involved in some way so it seems less threatening. Remember that at least one of your parents has been preparing food every day for decades and that it is not easy to see you ignore all that experience and go and learn from someone else. Something like "I really miss your cooking, so I decided to learn how to do it for myself" might be all you need.
posted by teleskiving at 4:20 AM on May 4, 2006

What I have found helpful is not mentioning things (like cooking classes in your example.) If they don't know about it they can't be negative about it. Seriously.
posted by konolia at 4:32 AM on May 4, 2006

how old are you? ... if you're old enough and it won't interfere with something like college, i strongly suggest you move out on your own ... live your own life ... in time, they will respect that
posted by pyramid termite at 4:54 AM on May 4, 2006

I'm surprised at all this warm-and-fuzzy advice. Have you tried just telling them off? "I'm tired of your negativity, and if you keep it up, don't be expecting to hear from me in the future"?

Your parents aren't robots--they can change their behavior if they understand how unacceptable it is. Next time this starts to bother you, just put your feelings on the table.
posted by josh at 4:57 AM on May 4, 2006

I'm not certain from the OP that his parents are acting this way because they want to be useful/are uncomfortable about his independence, as teleskiving suggested. It's possible, but I don't think we have enough info to know. I do know that there are some people who are just relentlessly negative about everything. They find friends who reinforce their negativity and selectively interpret all their own experiences as negative. Perhaps the OP's parents fit this description?

If so, I can suggest what helped me. I figure we all deal with handicaps. Some people are paraplegic; others were born into the slums of New Delhi; others were raped as children. My handicap (a relentlessly negative parent) is really not so bad in perspective. It sucks, it's not fair, etc, etc, but that's the way it is and I must move on. I can't change my parents or my past. I can, however, do the best I can with the hand I was dealt. Ironically, part of unlearning negativity is learning to cheerfully accept the reality of others' negativity, and proceed to brush it off.

I also second konolia's suggestion.
posted by ROTFL at 5:16 AM on May 4, 2006

I usually say, "Oh, you're just being negative." As many times as necessary. With a sweet smile. It's less exhausting than arguing.
posted by JanetLand at 5:25 AM on May 4, 2006

I can totally relate to this...my parents were the All Star Negativity Champs 40 years running.

There's only one way. You have to realize, at a very deep core level, that you are not your parents, and it has zero meaning whether they feel negatively about what you do or not. You are you, your mom is your mom, your dad is your dad. You all live in different versions of reality, and that's always the way it's going to be.

But that totally lets you off the hook. I began to notice that they felt negatively if I did what they wanted, and negatively if I didn't do what they wanted, and then came the blinding realization that it had nothing whatsoever to do with me. It had to do with them; it was entirely their own shit. (Within reason of course...of course that excludes harming them physically, or financially for example. But in the normal flow of life....)

Live your life for yourself and enjoy it. They are enjoying the hell out of their negativity, I can assure you. Do not try to change them; complete waste of time and energy. Put that energy into making your life the way you like it.

The best example I can think of of this is the life of young John Lennon, where his Aunt Mimi, whom with he lived, would try to discourage him every day from playing music. "The guitar's alright as a hobby John, but you can't make a living from it." she used to say. She also used to make him practice outside on the cold, damp porch.

All this drove him insane, but he pushed on, and made a few bucks.

Years later, Lennon had that saying engraved on a brass placque and gave it to her as a gift, and she kept it on top of the TV set.
posted by Nicholas West at 5:28 AM on May 4, 2006

Bemused detachment. See yourself as above the situation and deal with their comments gently and with humour. Also good for work situations.
posted by TorontoSandy at 5:32 AM on May 4, 2006

You're halfway there now that you recognize it. My approach (developed over years, mostly not living with them, which is easier) is 2/3 not telling them, 1/3 saying "okay, sure" and then doing it anyway.

Don't engage, though. They're not going to suddenly change their minds, and they can make up excuses all day until you're too tired to do what you want. If you have to say something, just say it's something you feel you need to do - they can try to argue with that, but in the end they cannot tell you how to feel. When you start feeling jauntier, you can start telling them what a fantastic time you had afterwards. Be the annoying sunshine person and prove them wrong.
posted by Lyn Never at 6:18 AM on May 4, 2006

Susan Forward's book Toxic Parents, and the list of related books, might give you some helpful insights.
posted by ParsonWreck at 6:22 AM on May 4, 2006

If you are living there rent-free, or they are subsidizing you in any way and you aren't a minor, it would be colossally rude and ungrateful to tell them off.

I've found that as some people age, they become more fearful and tentative. Maybe it's because they've seen what can happen when things go wrong? I don't know. My mom is like your parents too, and unfortunately, I've learned to not tell her everything that goes on in my life, because I just don't want to hear about the downside.

Be upbeat (or pretend to be), even if you are doubtful. You aren't your parents, and their view of the world does not have to be yours. Prove them wrong about their negative outlook.
posted by SuperSquirrel at 6:53 AM on May 4, 2006

Remember that at least one of your parents has been preparing food every day for decades and that it is not easy to see you ignore all that experience and go and learn from someone else. Something like "I really miss your cooking, so I decided to learn how to do it for myself" might be all you need.

I really represent this generalization of what parents do. We have nothing in the OP to tell us about any other aspect of the parent/child relationship. My parents, for instance, were often out of the house (and by out of the house I mean out of town, AWOL, no babysitter, no nothing. I was age 3-15) for weeks at a time. They were not preparing meals for me every day.

Beyond that, (which I know is my own personal gripe) some parents are just suck lousy cooks that no one misses their meals.
posted by bilabial at 6:55 AM on May 4, 2006

My father is a little like this, though nothing so extreme. I suspect it has something to do with a childhood during the Great Depression and WW2.

After I realized that he has a tendency to view the worst-case scenario as the most likely outcome, I just made fun of him whenever he pulled that routine (my family bonds through mutual ridicule).

It doesn't change his behavior, of course, but just the awareness that this is his schtick has made it less of an issue for me.
posted by adamrice at 7:01 AM on May 4, 2006

I can totally relate to this problem -- it is completely normal to want your parents to be happy for you and it is very discouraging when they are not. My strategy varies with the situation. If it something important that I have to tell them, I have often prefaced it with saying "this is a good thing so when I tell you this you should be happy". This tends to mute their negativity (why it works I don't know). My other strategy is to not tell them things. This strategy has become the dominant one as they have gotten older - we talk, but we talk about the weather or the grass or whatever.
posted by bluesky43 at 7:12 AM on May 4, 2006

In no particular order:

1) Check out Suzette Haden Elgin's More on the Gentle Art of Verbal Self-Defense and The Last Word on the Gentle Art of Verbal Self-Defense (with these, you can skip the first volume, The Gentle Art of Verbal Self-Defense.)

2) See a therapist if you can.

3) Ditto konolia. Minimize their opportunities.

4) Get the hell out of Dodge. If moving out isn't an option now, pursue the things that'll make it one. And (see 3) don't tell your parents what you're doing or why.

5) See Cheri Huber's There Is Nothing Wrong With You.

Congrats on recognizing the mechanism. That's a huge step. If you're like most people who've been immersed in such an environment, you're liable to find that you've internalized those voices of negativity, and that, even when you get yourself out of the environment, they're still arising in your head. When that happens, just recognize them for what they are, and let them subside, and remember to be kind to yourself. (This is what the Huber book is about.)
posted by Zed_Lopez at 7:18 AM on May 4, 2006

They are stuck living with themselves, so try to have a compassionate viewpoint. I use gentle teasing and absurd humor with my negative, depressed Mom. Yup, cooking lessons are probably overpriced, but I've decided to be the next Julia Child. Then we can have a pointless discussion of why I won't be Julia(not tall enough) without the real issue(I just want to cook).

Divert them whenever possible. Ask them about the War, the Depression, their parents. Some of us old farts get pretty stuck in conversational loops, but they might have some good stories. Tell them jokes. Stupid and silly are good, but just make it a challenge to see if you can get them to smile or laugh.

Don't live with them. I learned to cope with my Mom by moving a thousand miles away and not having a phone for nearly a year when I was just out of college.
posted by theora55 at 8:36 AM on May 4, 2006

This is about your parents wanting to feel useful, and being uncomfortable with your independence. You could help to make them feel better by asking their advice anytime you think it might be useful to you. Chances are, they do actually have a positive contribution to make to your life, but you'll need to give them an opportunity.

Well, they tend to shield me from any household chore whatsoever, for example, when I start clearing the table after dinner they tell me to stop and go study. The observation of Nicholas West applies: nothing I do seems to have any effect on the amount of negativity produced.

The last year I have been living in a student dormitory, even though they tried to persuade me not to go since I was not capable of living on my own, so I only come home for the weekends. Moving out was a great decision; however, I don't think my parents are bad people for acting in this way: they probably learned this behavior in their family situations, which were quite unpleasant to say the least.
posted by koenie at 8:45 AM on May 4, 2006

I tried to please my parents, but that was impossible. I've been gone more than not since age 16, and totally gone since I was 18. And still I labored to please.

Finally, January 1, 2001, my mom showed her claws one too many times. I've not spoken to her since. She now is in the late stages of alzheimers. There is debate whether to send flowers when the time comes. I won't go.
posted by Goofyy at 9:00 AM on May 4, 2006

Good story on Lennon, Nicholas West. I have a related anecdote -- a good friend of mine (Bernie Reilly, check him out here) apparently heard the same negative, pessimistic things about his own musical career, and dealt with it by writing a song.

I'm not wasting my time, just trying to get myself a little bit of money
And that's just fine trying to look like it ain't, so tell me
What's the matter with a man of age still swinging on the vine?

Are you gonna spend the rest of your life with a frown?
Why you always gotta put everything down?

You knock everything down, everything that I used to be into
Is that your way to keep the power right there with you?
If you wanna go your own way, that's alright with me

But why you gotta treat me like some clown?
Why you always gotta put everything down?

I'm always on trial when you're around
Why you always gotta put everything down?
You never make a sound except when you put everything down
You always gotta put everything down

If anyone cares to hear it, you can download an MP3 of the band Glue performing it live here (3.1MB)

full disclosure -- I know these guys, set up the shell of the hosting site, had a hand in recording the live performance, and uploaded the MP3 specifically for the benefit of this post. I only offer the healing power of music in lieu of any better advice than what's already been said -- you can't change your parents, but you can mitigate your reaction to it...and music can help get you through. I hope Koenie can relate to this, as I do. If this violates any sort of self-link policy, please ask for it to be deleted....I only offer it with good intentions.
posted by edverb at 9:02 AM on May 4, 2006

I'm going to echo what everyone else here has said. I spent my childhood with one extremely negative parent (and one extremely passive one). Every major positive step I took in my life was made over the vehement objection of my mother. A few examples:

* I shouldn't go to college. Instead, I should just start taking civil-service exams, because there's nothing wrong with being a cop or a garbage collector, like my Dad. (There isn't, BTW - before he retired, my Dad worked harder than anyone else I know, or will ever know. My mother, on the other hand, just couldn't comprehend why I would want something else for myself.) This was a 3-year fight.

* I shouldn't use some of my savings to buy a PC, because "I'll never have 2 nickels to rub together if I keep pissing my money away on crap". I defied her (provoking a 2-week temper tantrum) and did it anyway, spending 1,400 bucks on a (then) state-of-the-art 286/16. What I learned about PCs from owning that machine, I then parlayed into a desktop support job, which was my first position in IT. My 1400 dollar investment has paid for itself at least 500 times over.

* I shouldn't accept a buyout from my job, because taking 6 months pay to leave a position I hated was taking a huge risk, and she "wasn't going to be there to pick up the pieces when I fell on my face trying to get another job".

* I shouldn't move out of her home to take a job in another state, "because the door only swings one way". Basically, implying that if I dared leave, she wouldn't accept me back "when" I failed.

* I shouldn't buy a house, because "I'll be out on the street" if I couldn't make the payments. Of course, she was ignoring the fact that I run the same risk while renting.

Ultimately, her negativity became too much for me to bear, though - I no longer speak to her. The upside is that I don't have that constant negative energy being directed at me and everything I do, and ultimately, I'm happier for it.

The moral of this story is that in order to feel happy and fulfilled, you need to live your own life, on your own terms. In other words, to hell with them, and do what makes YOU happy.
posted by deadmessenger at 9:24 AM on May 4, 2006

I would advocate gently confronting your parents over this behavior, which is pretty normal (though your case is what I'd call extreme) but really not acceptable. If one of them seems more approachable about it recruit them to your cause first.

Not because you'll change their behavior - you likely won't - but because taking charge of your response to this unjustifiable emotional drain on your life is absolutely necessary, and it's going to affect how you deal with them, and they should know in advance where this change is coming from. And frankly, they should hear you say that you are tired of their constant negativity about your decisions and about how capable you are, that you are happy about the decisions you are making in your life and you deserve their support, and if they insist on reacting that way you will stop talking to them about these parts of your life.

Other advice: don't argue about these things. If your parents "ridicule the concept of [you] being able to cook in any way," this does not deserve a response. The idea that you shouldn't be living away from home is absurd: it does not deserve to be argued. Don't bother providing "rational responses" because your folks are not being rational, if they were receptive to rationality they would not respond that way in the first place.

Once you've adressed the issue and your problem with it, if your parents get into this behavior, if possible assertively disagree and then decline to discuss it further. As in "I'm not going to discuss it further if you're going to act like that."

If this is too confrontational, at the least do not justify their actions by engaging in discussion or debate that validates their viewpoint. Your parents aren't evil and you shouldn't hate them, but what you describe is more toxic than usual parental negativity or overprotectiveness. They are being nasty and they should be called on it, and it is bad for your mental health and you are justified and to be commended for taking whatever action is appropriate to minimize its influence in your life - including radically reducing the amount of time you spend with your parents, particularly if their response to your asserting your right not to be belittled is hostile.

Finally, detach further. It sounds like you are spending most weekends at home. Reduce it to shorter visits with less frequent sleeping over. If you are bringing home laundry or engaging in similar "guy who lives at home" behavior stop that. The more you assert your independence the better it is going to be for you. You can't control how they will react and respond. I would hope all this would wake them up a little and make them reconsider their outlook. But no matter how they react you have to focus on how you want to live.
posted by nanojath at 9:54 AM on May 4, 2006

I've had the same problem for ages. About a year ago I started counselling because of something else, but my mum's extreme criticism and my low self-esteem came up a lot during my sessions.

I simply told her about it, or mentioned it when we discussed my counselling, and I've found that she has been trying to be a lot less critical recently. That's not that she doesn't feel this negativity anymore, but she's certainly trying not to mention it so much these days.

But my counsellor also suggested what other people here have said - remember you are not them, their negativity is their problem and not yours, therefore you should not let it affect you.
posted by ClarissaWAM at 10:11 AM on May 4, 2006

I liked the idea of saying, "oh, that's so interesting." But, I have taken another tack with my negative parent: "I just don't feel comfortable discussing that." Repeat ad nauseam. It works for me.
posted by miss tea at 10:34 AM on May 4, 2006

Now I try to give rational responses as to why I want to do the things I want to do. Still, I find it very exhausting to put up with all the putdowns. Any advice on how to handle this situation?

My advice, probably duplicated above:

Don't bother trying to give rational responses. Just shrug their negativity off: "Well, whatever. I'm gonna give it a shot anyway. kthxbye."

It would be nice to have the support of one's parents; I know this from personal experience. But in the face of continuous negativity, it is more empowering to not include them in one's support system. Do the right thing for yourself, and let them deal with their own problems.
posted by five fresh fish at 10:38 AM on May 4, 2006

Part of me really wants to say "lay it on the line and don't let your parents continue" but I don't think that's the most practical thing.

I'm probably among the younger people here, but we're all young-ish, compared to the general population. So it's easy to forget that changing becomes exponentially harder for people as they age. So don't necessarily expect them to change, but do realize that it IS their problem.
posted by dagnyscott at 10:41 AM on May 4, 2006

"Thank you for your opinion. I will think over carefully what you said."

Then remember that your job in life is to make your life as fun/interesting/nice/etc. as you want it to be. Your job is not to make your parents happy - you have to worry about yourself. Keep the conversation short when it gets negitive, and leave/end the converstation in a respectful way as soon as possible. Remember that your parents do have a wealth of experience that you don't, and there may be some grains of truth in what they say, but you do have to consider your own wants and needs.

wife of 445supermag
posted by 445supermag at 10:49 AM on May 4, 2006

My (kinda passive-aggressive) way of pointing out annoying behavior is to out-negative them: "Oh you're right. Its so easy to get salmonella in my food and kill myself I'd better just not cook at all. Maybe I'll just eat canned beans from now on. Thanks for the advice."

Don't be mean, or even too sarcastic. Just exaggerate what they do. Do it often enough to get their attention. When they finally ask you WTF?, play innocent: "Oh, am I being too negative? You're right. That is really annoying. I'll try to stop."

At this point, you've turned the situation around so that you're (halfheartedly) defending their behavior, and they're pointing out why its stupid and annoying. After a while of doing this, it'll be far less confrontational to point out when they're being negative.

And that's what you want to do. They've acquired and practiced a bad habit, and to help them change it, you have to call them on it every time they do it. The hard part is doing that without provoking defensiveness on their part. Thats why I like humor, sarcasm, and over-the-top exaggeration. (Of course my parents are pretty easy-going, and catch on pretty quick when I pull this shit on them...)
posted by gemini at 10:51 AM on May 4, 2006

There's been lots of good advice already, but I just wanted to put in another vote for what konolia said, with a variation.

I myself have done a lot of distancing from my negative father. However, my dad is still my dad and I don't want him out of my life forever. I try to find that balance between accepting him and his weaknesses and taking care of myself.

What I've learned to do is wait to tell my parents about anything until after the project has been initiated. That way, when my dad's soul-squelching negativity comes surging forth like foam from a rabid dog's maw, I have already formed my own (balanced) opinion on whatever it is that I'm doing.

Then he can think what he likes, and it doesn't affect me (as much, anyway; the truth is that it will always be hurtful).

From my own experience, I can tell you that once you get out and on your own, it become easier to be your own person instead of a reflection of your folks. I would suggest doing everything you can to be as independent from them as possible.
posted by tentacle at 12:10 PM on May 4, 2006

I too follow konolia's and tentacle and others' advice. I simply keep quiet about what I'm up to. If it shows signs of success I'll talk about it afterwards.

I find the advice to confront or otherwise engage a bit rude and disrespectful, and probably pointless.

I'm not sure about the idea that this is all about your parents own needs. It may help to think of this as a somewhat mistaken expression of love and care. My Dad is always pointing out the pitfalls of any new undertaking, and I think he thinks he's protecting me. It drives me nuts, but I appreciate the intent.
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 1:18 PM on May 4, 2006