How to change a negative subconscious association
December 18, 2022 5:33 PM Subscribe
My brain freaks out at relaxation. How can change my brains association to relaxing? I’ve tried everything I can think of.
I posted about this a while back, but had it removed because I felt that it identified me. I’m asking again because I’m desperate.
Two years ago, I did a limbic system retraining program called DNRS. It’s a neuroplasticity based program that helps people rewire their brains by changing subconscious associations.
I did the program because I had food sensitivites, along with a lot of other health problems that I’d learned stem from limbic/nervous system disregulation.
The program requires that you visualize yourself doing the thing you can’t in real life. In my case, that was eating the foods I can’t eat. Very quickly, picturing eating something that caused me physical distress became incredibly stressful. My coach told me to keep going though, so I did. My brain was terrified and I pushed it, and it might sound silly, but I can’t tell you the ramifications it has had on my health. Severe insomnia, hormonal issues, severe depression, and complete and utter inability to relax, meditate, or even take a deep breath.
It’s important to me to get back the ability to relax deeply, because a lot of my health issues stem from nervous system disregulation. The cure for it is prolonged periods of accessing your parasympathetic state so the nervous system regulates.
My health is the worst it’s ever been, and I’m still in disbelief some days at the damage this program did.
I’m looking for advice on changing the association my brain has to relaxation. Please share any ideas you have. I’d be really grateful.
Two years ago, I did a limbic system retraining program called DNRS. It’s a neuroplasticity based program that helps people rewire their brains by changing subconscious associations.
I did the program because I had food sensitivites, along with a lot of other health problems that I’d learned stem from limbic/nervous system disregulation.
The program requires that you visualize yourself doing the thing you can’t in real life. In my case, that was eating the foods I can’t eat. Very quickly, picturing eating something that caused me physical distress became incredibly stressful. My coach told me to keep going though, so I did. My brain was terrified and I pushed it, and it might sound silly, but I can’t tell you the ramifications it has had on my health. Severe insomnia, hormonal issues, severe depression, and complete and utter inability to relax, meditate, or even take a deep breath.
It’s important to me to get back the ability to relax deeply, because a lot of my health issues stem from nervous system disregulation. The cure for it is prolonged periods of accessing your parasympathetic state so the nervous system regulates.
My health is the worst it’s ever been, and I’m still in disbelief some days at the damage this program did.
I’m looking for advice on changing the association my brain has to relaxation. Please share any ideas you have. I’d be really grateful.
It's hard to know what to suggest without knowing what you have already tried. What you describe sounds like a state of constant vigilance, which would absolutely damage one's health.
If you haven't yet tried medication, you absolutely should. Medication may give your brain and body a chance to relean how not to be in a state of panic. If you were willing to try an unresearched therapy like DNRS, I can't think why you wouldn't try several different anti- anxiety meds, which have been heavily researched and brought relief to thousands of people. Apologies if this is something you've already explored.
posted by Ausamor at 7:59 PM on December 18, 2022 [3 favorites]
If you haven't yet tried medication, you absolutely should. Medication may give your brain and body a chance to relean how not to be in a state of panic. If you were willing to try an unresearched therapy like DNRS, I can't think why you wouldn't try several different anti- anxiety meds, which have been heavily researched and brought relief to thousands of people. Apologies if this is something you've already explored.
posted by Ausamor at 7:59 PM on December 18, 2022 [3 favorites]
Two years ago, I did a limbic system retraining program called DNRS. It’s a neuroplasticity based program that helps people rewire their brains by changing subconscious associations.
I did the program because I had food sensitivites, along with a lot of other health problems that I’d learned stem from limbic/nervous system disregulation.
The program requires that you visualize yourself doing the thing you can’t in real life. In my case, that was eating the foods I can’t eat. Very quickly, picturing eating something that caused me physical distress became incredibly stressful. My coach told me to keep going though, so I did. My brain was terrified and I pushed it, and it might sound silly, but I can’t tell you the ramifications it has had on my health. Severe insomnia, hormonal issues, severe depression, and complete and utter inability to relax, meditate, or even take a deep breath.
That is a strange and in my opinion extremely wrong-headed program.
A recent experiment has shown that stimulating neurons in the brain can actually cause the immune system to recreate the immune response in the gut to an antigen which provoked that immune response in the past and activated those neurons, but which was not present at the time of the later activation:
Your body then responds to this sudden activation of the immune system with a massive and immune-suppressing outpouring of cortisol from the adrenal glands along with all the other adrenal hormones — kind of like an endogenous epi-pen — and you experience that as massive arousal.
posted by jamjam at 9:57 PM on December 18, 2022
I did the program because I had food sensitivites, along with a lot of other health problems that I’d learned stem from limbic/nervous system disregulation.
The program requires that you visualize yourself doing the thing you can’t in real life. In my case, that was eating the foods I can’t eat. Very quickly, picturing eating something that caused me physical distress became incredibly stressful. My coach told me to keep going though, so I did. My brain was terrified and I pushed it, and it might sound silly, but I can’t tell you the ramifications it has had on my health. Severe insomnia, hormonal issues, severe depression, and complete and utter inability to relax, meditate, or even take a deep breath.
That is a strange and in my opinion extremely wrong-headed program.
A recent experiment has shown that stimulating neurons in the brain can actually cause the immune system to recreate the immune response in the gut to an antigen which provoked that immune response in the past and activated those neurons, but which was not present at the time of the later activation:
The Brain Can Recall and Reawaken Past Immune ResponsesWhat I think this program may have done to you is cause your brain to recreate the signs and symptoms of your food sensitivities whenever you think of those foods, even when you haven’t consumed those foods at all.
Dogs that habitually hear a bell at chow time become classically conditioned to drool at the mere chime, as the physiologist Ivan Pavlov showed in the 1890s: Their brains learn to associate the bell with food and instruct the salivary glands to respond accordingly.
More than a century later, in a paper published today in Cell, the neuroimmunologist Asya Rolls has shown that a similar kind of conditioning extends to immune responses. Using state-of-the-art genetic tools in mice, her team at the Technion in Haifa, Israel, identified brain neurons that became active during experimentally induced inflammation in the abdomen. Later, the researchers showed that restimulating those neurons could trigger the same types of inflammation again.
“This is an outstanding body of work,” said Kevin Tracey, a neurosurgeon and president of the Feinstein Institutes for Medical Research in Manhasset, New York. It “establishes that the classic concept of immunological memory can be represented in neurons.” Others before Rolls have suggested that the brain could remember and retrieve immune responses, he said, but “she proved it.”
Your body then responds to this sudden activation of the immune system with a massive and immune-suppressing outpouring of cortisol from the adrenal glands along with all the other adrenal hormones — kind of like an endogenous epi-pen — and you experience that as massive arousal.
posted by jamjam at 9:57 PM on December 18, 2022
If you haven't already, trying an active meditation like a walking meditation or a meditation in which you color in something like a mandala may be helpful for you. Key is to do it slowly, focusing on your movements and with deep breathing.
Honestly though, if you have gone this long without being able regulate in the way that you want, medication may be the next option to consider.
posted by AlexiaSky at 8:16 AM on December 19, 2022
Honestly though, if you have gone this long without being able regulate in the way that you want, medication may be the next option to consider.
posted by AlexiaSky at 8:16 AM on December 19, 2022
This might be a stupid idea, but here goes.
I had issues similar to this in my teens when I started having panic attacks, and relaxation exercises made the attacks worse.
A light bulb moment was when someone suggested changing the wording of the prompts in the relaxation exercises from something like “Your arms are getting heavier” to “Can you imagine your arms getting heavier?”
Although it is not logical, this made a difference for me. Hope this helps.
posted by wittgenstein at 4:43 PM on December 19, 2022
I had issues similar to this in my teens when I started having panic attacks, and relaxation exercises made the attacks worse.
A light bulb moment was when someone suggested changing the wording of the prompts in the relaxation exercises from something like “Your arms are getting heavier” to “Can you imagine your arms getting heavier?”
Although it is not logical, this made a difference for me. Hope this helps.
posted by wittgenstein at 4:43 PM on December 19, 2022
This thread is closed to new comments.
I've had to learn about some of this because autistic people tend to have extremely sensitive sympathetic nervous system (responsible for fight, flight and freeze). We go into the red zone at much smaller triggers than people who are not autistic, and it takes a lot longer to calm down.
Last year I got into an anxiety spiral about my insomnia that sounds similar to what you're experiencing.
I'm so sorry that you had that experience with the DNRS therapist. That's a textbook example of how to re traumatise someone.
Any kind of exposure therapy needs to take into account your comfort zone, pushing the limit slightly, but not so much that you're overwhelmed. Once the "fight or flight" response kicks in, there's no space for learning or therapy, you're just surviving.
What helped me get out of my sleep = anxiety spiral was to shift from a fear based approach, to a kindness and patience based approach.
Firstly, I noticed how often I was telling myself that this was a terrible problem that I might never overcome. I noticed how often I was telling myself that not getting enough sleep would mean that I would be so tired that (insert negative stuff here).
I tried to change that self talk from catastrophising, to realistic but kind.
"yes I'm probably going to be tired. That sucks. But I've been coping with being tired for quite a while now, so I know I can get through the day."
Try not to judge yourself for negative, fear based thinking , and don't invalidate yourself. Picture you as a small, tired, scared child. Acknowledge the fear. Provide comfort. But remind yourself that you are resourceful.
Take a break from trying to fix yourself. That's a big and stressful responsibility and you're hurting too much right now.
Focus on getting through your day, and instead of trying to make relaxation happen, just notice, very lightly, when good moments happen that you did not create.
Note the small unexpected moments of pleasure, so that you can learn about yourself and what you enjoy.
Anxiety is rooted in a fear of lack of control, and the more you strive to control things that are out of your control, the stronger the anxiety grows.
The alternative is to realise that you don't need to strive so hard to avoid danger and pain. Those frightening and painful things will happen, and you will deal with them, you will surprise yourself with how resourceful and brave you are.
This time you are living through is hard, but it will pass. It will become a memory.
posted by Zumbador at 7:52 PM on December 18, 2022 [17 favorites]