Veggie contemplating a steak
November 13, 2022 6:38 PM Subscribe
I’ve been alternatingly vegan, vegetarian and pescetarian for 15 years. I’m thinking about giving very occasional meat-eating a shot — like once or twice a month. Are you a former veggie who switched to occasional meat eating? Are there any health benefits from eating meat like this or am I just fooling myself?
I eat a pretty healthy diet. I am technically pescetarian but I cook mostly vegan at home, plus some local eggs and Greek yogurt for protein. I’ll eat fish or shellfish at a restaurant maybe once a week. I haven’t eaten red meat or chicken for years. I don’t feel good about it ethically or environmentally.
However…lately I have been really craving the occasional steak or burger and wonder if red meat is somehow something that my body needs? I’m not really sick or anything on my diet, but my iron and B12 levels are always on the low side, I get heavy periods sometimes and I need more sleep than most people. I have also read vegetarians are more prone to anxiety…I just wonder if my body is missing something and that’s why I’m getting these cravings. I don’t want to eat meat all the time though and I’m honestly still grossed out by a lot of it. So yeah.
Are you a former veggie who started eating meat on occasion? How do you justify it ethically? Did it make you feel better? How often would I need to eat meat to get some health benefits?
I eat a pretty healthy diet. I am technically pescetarian but I cook mostly vegan at home, plus some local eggs and Greek yogurt for protein. I’ll eat fish or shellfish at a restaurant maybe once a week. I haven’t eaten red meat or chicken for years. I don’t feel good about it ethically or environmentally.
However…lately I have been really craving the occasional steak or burger and wonder if red meat is somehow something that my body needs? I’m not really sick or anything on my diet, but my iron and B12 levels are always on the low side, I get heavy periods sometimes and I need more sleep than most people. I have also read vegetarians are more prone to anxiety…I just wonder if my body is missing something and that’s why I’m getting these cravings. I don’t want to eat meat all the time though and I’m honestly still grossed out by a lot of it. So yeah.
Are you a former veggie who started eating meat on occasion? How do you justify it ethically? Did it make you feel better? How often would I need to eat meat to get some health benefits?
There is no “the” human body. There are several billion human bodies, who live in several thousand cultures, which have all evolved different approaches to sustenance and ritual.
I say, try a portion once or twice a month, and see what your body tells you.
posted by sixswitch at 7:14 PM on November 13, 2022 [10 favorites]
I say, try a portion once or twice a month, and see what your body tells you.
posted by sixswitch at 7:14 PM on November 13, 2022 [10 favorites]
Anecdotally, eating red meat before my (formerly) outrageously, medically significantly heavy periods very much helped me avoid anemia once a month.
Iron supplements didn't help (and ugh, constipation), and vegetarian sources of iron didn't sit well with me.
If I were you, I'd try it, same advice as has been given upthread.
posted by Temeraria at 7:37 PM on November 13, 2022 [4 favorites]
Iron supplements didn't help (and ugh, constipation), and vegetarian sources of iron didn't sit well with me.
If I were you, I'd try it, same advice as has been given upthread.
posted by Temeraria at 7:37 PM on November 13, 2022 [4 favorites]
my iron and B12 levels are always on the low side
This is why I went from pescatarian to incorporating some red meat into my diet. Liver is especially good for iron absorption. I feel justified by this because iron supplements are limited in what they can accomplish for some bodies, and mine appears to me one of them. Also, I still don't eat nearly as much meat as the "average American" and I barely eat any processed food, and don't eat in restaurants much (two other big sources of the food industries carbon footprint).
posted by coffeecat at 7:42 PM on November 13, 2022 [3 favorites]
This is why I went from pescatarian to incorporating some red meat into my diet. Liver is especially good for iron absorption. I feel justified by this because iron supplements are limited in what they can accomplish for some bodies, and mine appears to me one of them. Also, I still don't eat nearly as much meat as the "average American" and I barely eat any processed food, and don't eat in restaurants much (two other big sources of the food industries carbon footprint).
posted by coffeecat at 7:42 PM on November 13, 2022 [3 favorites]
That was me at some point and I'll just speak to the moral part: I justified it because life is complicated and full of choices and none of us is perfectly moral. If it's something that is important to your moral outlook, then find ways around it and don't eat meat. For me, I didn't eat meat for ten years for vaguely moral reasons and then over time it felt less important to me. I'd eat meat and think both "I don't love the idea of this" and "I love the taste of this." It just in the scheme of things felt like a moral perhaps-failing I could live with. (I'm headed back in the other direction now, 15 years later, because it's started to feel somewhat important, but I'm still planning on making exceptions if someone is cooking for me or frankly if I really feel like it.)
TL;DR: we're people and we make varying degrees of moral compromise so this really depends only on whether this is a degree that goes with your life.
I have no idea about the health stuff.
posted by less-of-course at 7:48 PM on November 13, 2022 [1 favorite]
TL;DR: we're people and we make varying degrees of moral compromise so this really depends only on whether this is a degree that goes with your life.
I have no idea about the health stuff.
posted by less-of-course at 7:48 PM on November 13, 2022 [1 favorite]
Beyond burgers will probably satisfy your urge for a burger, they really taste like animal meat (actually better to me, but I don't eat meat) and lots of protein.
posted by j810c at 7:58 PM on November 13, 2022 [10 favorites]
posted by j810c at 7:58 PM on November 13, 2022 [10 favorites]
Seconding Beyond Burgers or Impossible Burgers. I was borderline revolted by them at first (because they do seem vaguely meatlike, but less vaguely than, say, Quorn), but now I crave them occasionally.
posted by amtho at 9:01 PM on November 13, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by amtho at 9:01 PM on November 13, 2022 [5 favorites]
IANYRD but I am *an* RD who works a lot with vegans/vegetarians/dietary restrictions... And yeah while there are no health benefits to eating the steak, if you're craving it once in a while, there's nothing to say you shouldn't try it. Listen to your body! Quick note that any animal protein would provide more iron/B12 than a strictly vegan diet without B12 supplementation, and that includes fish, dairy, eggs, and poultry all "count" towards that. That said, here are some resources on vegan and vegetarian options for helping maintain adequate B12 and iron levels in your diet if you decide red/animal meat isn't the answer for you. From what you've said, you might not be meeting all of your body's needs with your current intake. Another quick note that non-heme (aka plant based) iron is best used by your body if you include some kind of vitamin C when you prepare the meal - but there are zillions of options out there (chana and tomatoes, black beans and lime, white beans and peppers), so I'd say just focus more on finding something that you find tasty :) For me, that's beans plus stuff versus the meat analogs, but the college kids I used to work with adored them. Different options for different tastes!
Anecdotally, I've known folks who were raised veg and then had some GI discomfort after trying an admittedly large steak for the first time in college, so if you do try it I'd recommend a small portion to see how it sits with you.
I hope this helps!
posted by OhHaieThere at 9:21 PM on November 13, 2022 [8 favorites]
Anecdotally, I've known folks who were raised veg and then had some GI discomfort after trying an admittedly large steak for the first time in college, so if you do try it I'd recommend a small portion to see how it sits with you.
I hope this helps!
posted by OhHaieThere at 9:21 PM on November 13, 2022 [8 favorites]
Yea, you are fooling yourself, but not in the way you think.
Listen to your body. It's got a better idea what it needs than all the so-called experts out there. If you have the time, go through the "expert" recommendations of the past 100 years and form an opinion on their validity. Then extrapolate to today's expert advice.
As with many things in life, moderation is key.
posted by wrm at 9:45 PM on November 13, 2022
Listen to your body. It's got a better idea what it needs than all the so-called experts out there. If you have the time, go through the "expert" recommendations of the past 100 years and form an opinion on their validity. Then extrapolate to today's expert advice.
As with many things in life, moderation is key.
posted by wrm at 9:45 PM on November 13, 2022
Background - I am a former and future vegetarian who switched to eating meat after like 15 years vegetarian. Maybe monthly meat? I am a picky eater with not-amazing executive function for feeding myself and I probably on average am not always getting enough calories. My blood tests have a historical tendency to come back borderline malnutrition. So I have added in infrequent occasions of meat-eating if it's a thing that I'm willing to eat when other things are not.
Dairy - I've read countless reasons over the decades why it is unethical to eat dairy and I've been out of excuses for many years (except that it was a good source of calories I'm willing to eat) and then the man of the holes died and that was the thing that finally got me. Now I eat dairy only about as often as I eat meat (with the exception of my delicious delicious multivitamin, which is made of milk chocolate).
Iron - It's also good for my blood test results to not be living on dairy. It was helping me get my calories in, but my labs always came back borderline nutrient deficient. Nowadays, I eat a lot of beans and greens (among other things not as relevant to my iron scores) because they are nutrient dense. I try to eat beans and greens every day. My iron came back 191 (highest end of the range). Without iron supplementation! 🎉 Even so, my ferritin still came back at a lowly 14, and right before my period, too.
Iron - Initially I started eating meat because I was concerned about my iron. I don't believe the frequency I'm willing to eat meat has any significant impact. Maybe once a month?! I think it's the daily beans and dark greens. I suspect that my multivitamin + B12 help, too.
Vitamin B12 - I take B12 supplements. It has helped me a lot. The %dv is misleading, many people need a lot more than 100%dv. For many years, I didn't really believe that, and I missed out. Try 1000mcg 1-2x weekly for a bottle's worth and see if that does anything for you. That's a standard recommended dosage for vegetarians, and B12 is a vitamin that there's consensus it's pretty safe to try out.
Meat I eat - Since my primary food goal is to get enough calories, adding the occasional dead animal back in has meant that I am getting nutrition when otherwise I'd just be hungry. I am not always getting the ethical meat. It might be a gyro to go from a random gyro-selling place when I'm out on a long bike ride. Or a package of lunch meat from a grocery store when I'm on bike tour, and then I get out of the store and scrutinize the package and discover it was greenwashed and it was actually probably a sad cow or whatever.
Externalized death - With eggs, right now I get those during egg season from a person who sells yard eggs and I know those chickens are living the dream. You can't have industrial eggs without killing male chicks. You typically can't even have eggs in a city whose code doesn't allow roosters without someone killing male chicks for you. Hens bred for industrial egg-laying live one miserable season, maybe two. In a yard, they can live ten (they'll kill a lot of bugs). There's no hiding the fact that an animal died for your steak.
Ethics - So ethically, meat and dairy are in the same category as far as I'm concerned. Either can be done environmentally, most are not, and none are sustainable for most of the people in my part of the world to be eating as much as they do. Like, there literally are not enough fish in the sea for everyone to get as much omega 3s as my doctor thinks I should have in my life. If you look at a map of who eats meat and dairy, and then you look at a map of how much space the meat and dairy industry "farms" take up, it doesn't make mathematical sense in a lot of ways.... Also it is quickly clear that animal products are not just destroying animals, they're destroying entire ecosystems and committing entire genocides.
Killing - I think it is responsible for people to have a connection to the animals they kill. I slit a rooster's throat and killed it once. A beautiful chicken. It was a lot of work. The killing went quick, butchering took longer. It was a half a day to get to the point where I recognized the chicken legs of my childhood dinners. I ate that chicken. My partner helped. He pretty much went vegan after that.
Externalized killing - I remember when I was doing a working holiday in Australia, I got told by my fellow ag workers not to work at the chicken factory if I could help it. Worst job in town. Nowadays, we put the deaths of all those animals on a factory worker somewhere who probably gets nightmares, I hear it's one of the worst jobs that exists anywhere. Who is working these jobs?
Harm - I killed a million crickets once. Personally rode my bicycle over each and every one of the crickets I killed. I did a "vegan challenge" for 40 days once. What I learned from that is that there is no bright line where you can honestly say "I'm not harming anything."
Former v*gans - I read something recently. The idea was that former vegetarians and vegans are a much bigger group than current v*gans and are thus responsible for saving more animal lives because they are eating less animal products overall than people who never went without eating animal products.
Antibiotics - If you start eating meat, remember that most animals who are treated as products rather than living beings may be fed antibiotics, which mean that those antibiotics will in turn be fed to you.
Responsibility - I live in a world where, for example, I get food delivered to grocery stores by trucks, and those trucks require infrastructure for motor vehicles. How many animals die from road kill every day? How many people? How many truck drivers die early from a lifetime of long days of sitting? How many wars were fought for the gasoline that fueled the truck? How many mountains were moved for the battery materials? What happens when the battery is no good any more? How many rubber plantations replaced diverse ecosystems for the tires? How many fields replaced diverse ecosystems for the food that truck driver is delivering? Etc. That's just one example of countless ways in which I am indirectly responsible for the deaths and worsening of countless lives just by choosing to live in my society. It's like playing whack-a-mole. I can't fix everything and I'm not sure what the most important things to prioritize are. All I can do is my best to make the world a better place given the skills and resources I have right here right now.
I feel pretty confident that my only health benefit from eating meat approximately monthly is that I'm not missing that meal. For me, that's a big deal. I can't justify it. It is not justifiable. It's wrong and it's not fair and it's not ok.
posted by aniola at 10:50 PM on November 13, 2022 [4 favorites]
Dairy - I've read countless reasons over the decades why it is unethical to eat dairy and I've been out of excuses for many years (except that it was a good source of calories I'm willing to eat) and then the man of the holes died and that was the thing that finally got me. Now I eat dairy only about as often as I eat meat (with the exception of my delicious delicious multivitamin, which is made of milk chocolate).
Iron - It's also good for my blood test results to not be living on dairy. It was helping me get my calories in, but my labs always came back borderline nutrient deficient. Nowadays, I eat a lot of beans and greens (among other things not as relevant to my iron scores) because they are nutrient dense. I try to eat beans and greens every day. My iron came back 191 (highest end of the range). Without iron supplementation! 🎉 Even so, my ferritin still came back at a lowly 14, and right before my period, too.
Iron - Initially I started eating meat because I was concerned about my iron. I don't believe the frequency I'm willing to eat meat has any significant impact. Maybe once a month?! I think it's the daily beans and dark greens. I suspect that my multivitamin + B12 help, too.
Vitamin B12 - I take B12 supplements. It has helped me a lot. The %dv is misleading, many people need a lot more than 100%dv. For many years, I didn't really believe that, and I missed out. Try 1000mcg 1-2x weekly for a bottle's worth and see if that does anything for you. That's a standard recommended dosage for vegetarians, and B12 is a vitamin that there's consensus it's pretty safe to try out.
Meat I eat - Since my primary food goal is to get enough calories, adding the occasional dead animal back in has meant that I am getting nutrition when otherwise I'd just be hungry. I am not always getting the ethical meat. It might be a gyro to go from a random gyro-selling place when I'm out on a long bike ride. Or a package of lunch meat from a grocery store when I'm on bike tour, and then I get out of the store and scrutinize the package and discover it was greenwashed and it was actually probably a sad cow or whatever.
Externalized death - With eggs, right now I get those during egg season from a person who sells yard eggs and I know those chickens are living the dream. You can't have industrial eggs without killing male chicks. You typically can't even have eggs in a city whose code doesn't allow roosters without someone killing male chicks for you. Hens bred for industrial egg-laying live one miserable season, maybe two. In a yard, they can live ten (they'll kill a lot of bugs). There's no hiding the fact that an animal died for your steak.
Ethics - So ethically, meat and dairy are in the same category as far as I'm concerned. Either can be done environmentally, most are not, and none are sustainable for most of the people in my part of the world to be eating as much as they do. Like, there literally are not enough fish in the sea for everyone to get as much omega 3s as my doctor thinks I should have in my life. If you look at a map of who eats meat and dairy, and then you look at a map of how much space the meat and dairy industry "farms" take up, it doesn't make mathematical sense in a lot of ways.... Also it is quickly clear that animal products are not just destroying animals, they're destroying entire ecosystems and committing entire genocides.
Killing - I think it is responsible for people to have a connection to the animals they kill. I slit a rooster's throat and killed it once. A beautiful chicken. It was a lot of work. The killing went quick, butchering took longer. It was a half a day to get to the point where I recognized the chicken legs of my childhood dinners. I ate that chicken. My partner helped. He pretty much went vegan after that.
Externalized killing - I remember when I was doing a working holiday in Australia, I got told by my fellow ag workers not to work at the chicken factory if I could help it. Worst job in town. Nowadays, we put the deaths of all those animals on a factory worker somewhere who probably gets nightmares, I hear it's one of the worst jobs that exists anywhere. Who is working these jobs?
Harm - I killed a million crickets once. Personally rode my bicycle over each and every one of the crickets I killed. I did a "vegan challenge" for 40 days once. What I learned from that is that there is no bright line where you can honestly say "I'm not harming anything."
Former v*gans - I read something recently. The idea was that former vegetarians and vegans are a much bigger group than current v*gans and are thus responsible for saving more animal lives because they are eating less animal products overall than people who never went without eating animal products.
Antibiotics - If you start eating meat, remember that most animals who are treated as products rather than living beings may be fed antibiotics, which mean that those antibiotics will in turn be fed to you.
Responsibility - I live in a world where, for example, I get food delivered to grocery stores by trucks, and those trucks require infrastructure for motor vehicles. How many animals die from road kill every day? How many people? How many truck drivers die early from a lifetime of long days of sitting? How many wars were fought for the gasoline that fueled the truck? How many mountains were moved for the battery materials? What happens when the battery is no good any more? How many rubber plantations replaced diverse ecosystems for the tires? How many fields replaced diverse ecosystems for the food that truck driver is delivering? Etc. That's just one example of countless ways in which I am indirectly responsible for the deaths and worsening of countless lives just by choosing to live in my society. It's like playing whack-a-mole. I can't fix everything and I'm not sure what the most important things to prioritize are. All I can do is my best to make the world a better place given the skills and resources I have right here right now.
I feel pretty confident that my only health benefit from eating meat approximately monthly is that I'm not missing that meal. For me, that's a big deal. I can't justify it. It is not justifiable. It's wrong and it's not fair and it's not ok.
posted by aniola at 10:50 PM on November 13, 2022 [4 favorites]
I'm vegan and when I've accidentally eaten something with animal products (i.e., hidden chicken stock or something I didn't know had dairy), I've had stomach issues for days. I can't imagine this wouldn't make you horrifically sick.
posted by Violet Hour at 10:55 PM on November 13, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by Violet Hour at 10:55 PM on November 13, 2022 [2 favorites]
There is no ethical consumption under capitalism, and human lives are complicated. I think it's fine for you to try this. There are people who just can't reasonably get what they need for nutrition without it, keeping in mind the complexities of life. No one is morally pure.
In my very non-scientific opinion, it strikes me it's possible your body is craving meat because it wants something that's in there (especially if it's a new craving), but there may be other places you could get that thing. I have heard many times that all vegetarians need to lay attention to supplements (though I'm terrible at this), and there are needed nutrients that are difficult to get without meat.
You could give it a try and see how it affects you.
I second the beyond meat burgers though, they are nutritionally somewhat more interesting than the old school sad veggie burgers and they satisfy my meat cravings.
posted by lookoutbelow at 11:58 PM on November 13, 2022 [2 favorites]
In my very non-scientific opinion, it strikes me it's possible your body is craving meat because it wants something that's in there (especially if it's a new craving), but there may be other places you could get that thing. I have heard many times that all vegetarians need to lay attention to supplements (though I'm terrible at this), and there are needed nutrients that are difficult to get without meat.
You could give it a try and see how it affects you.
I second the beyond meat burgers though, they are nutritionally somewhat more interesting than the old school sad veggie burgers and they satisfy my meat cravings.
posted by lookoutbelow at 11:58 PM on November 13, 2022 [2 favorites]
Best answer: I've been vegetarian for almost 17 years now, and I feel distinctly shitty if I don't supplement B12 and iron daily. Elemental iron wasn't helping enough or quickly enough, so a few months ago I started taking a heme iron supplement (OptiFer brand in the UK) and it's been a huge help.
I'm vegetarian for a blend of ethical and disgust-at-animal-flesh-consumption reasons, and I don't feel great about using a bovine iron supplement (and avoided it as an option for a long time on those grounds), but I feel much less worse about it than I would about eating actual meat to get the same benefit. YMMV, particularly if you don't have as intense a disgust reaction about the idea of eating meat as I do. It just doesn't even register as food to me at this point.
posted by terretu at 2:38 AM on November 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
I'm vegetarian for a blend of ethical and disgust-at-animal-flesh-consumption reasons, and I don't feel great about using a bovine iron supplement (and avoided it as an option for a long time on those grounds), but I feel much less worse about it than I would about eating actual meat to get the same benefit. YMMV, particularly if you don't have as intense a disgust reaction about the idea of eating meat as I do. It just doesn't even register as food to me at this point.
posted by terretu at 2:38 AM on November 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
Cravings can be tough, but in the unnatural food environment most of us live in, they are a poor indicator of what your body needs. A former smoker may crave a cigarette, and an alcoholic may crave a drink, but we wouldn't tell these people "listen to your body." Fat, salt, and sugar are addictive. Add a sauce to the steak, and it has all three. I'd buy the "listen to your body" argument more if you were craving raw, unsalted meat.
I'm vegan, though I sometimes crave meat, and I agree that Beyond Burgers and Impossible Burgers are great for getting past these cravings. I also will sometimes watch videos showing the treatment of these animals if I'm wavering. I did give into cravings and have some fried chicken (fat, sugar, salt) a few months ago, but if I tried to justify it by saying it was somehow OK, I'd be kidding myself. I just have to admit I'm not perfect and I did something I think is wrong.
If you're concerned that your diet is inadequate, then a visit with a dietitian who specializes in vegetarian diets might be a good idea. (Some conventional dietitians can be wildly misinformed about vegetarian diets.) If you're in the US, you could also make an appointment with a doc at Plant-Based Telehealth. They have doctors licensed in all 50 states. Re your heavy periods, Dr. Neal Barnard just put out a book on diet and hormones that might be helpful. Spoiler: he'll tell you to quit dairy. I was postmenopausal when I went vegan, but I wish I'd tried giving up dairy when I had heavy periods instead of taking a med that caused brain tumors.
If you end up deciding to eat some meat, it's not the end of the world, but your cravings don't mean that you somehow need it or that your diet is inadequate in any way. Either way, good for you for giving it up for so long.
posted by FencingGal at 3:17 AM on November 14, 2022 [6 favorites]
I'm vegan, though I sometimes crave meat, and I agree that Beyond Burgers and Impossible Burgers are great for getting past these cravings. I also will sometimes watch videos showing the treatment of these animals if I'm wavering. I did give into cravings and have some fried chicken (fat, sugar, salt) a few months ago, but if I tried to justify it by saying it was somehow OK, I'd be kidding myself. I just have to admit I'm not perfect and I did something I think is wrong.
If you're concerned that your diet is inadequate, then a visit with a dietitian who specializes in vegetarian diets might be a good idea. (Some conventional dietitians can be wildly misinformed about vegetarian diets.) If you're in the US, you could also make an appointment with a doc at Plant-Based Telehealth. They have doctors licensed in all 50 states. Re your heavy periods, Dr. Neal Barnard just put out a book on diet and hormones that might be helpful. Spoiler: he'll tell you to quit dairy. I was postmenopausal when I went vegan, but I wish I'd tried giving up dairy when I had heavy periods instead of taking a med that caused brain tumors.
If you end up deciding to eat some meat, it's not the end of the world, but your cravings don't mean that you somehow need it or that your diet is inadequate in any way. Either way, good for you for giving it up for so long.
posted by FencingGal at 3:17 AM on November 14, 2022 [6 favorites]
I used to be in this same position. Listen to your body. Your body is an animal despite how lofty your mind may be in not wanting to eat meat. It's better to have some ethically sourced animal protein occasionally than to live as a suffering vegetarian.
posted by Liquidwolf at 6:13 AM on November 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by Liquidwolf at 6:13 AM on November 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
I've unintentionally had a vegetarian diet for a few weeks at a time a few times in my life. Usually my first meal with beef will then cause some general stomach upset and require some extended bathroom time, so that would be one thing to be aware of. I'm honestly not sure how often I need to eat beef to prevent that initial upset.
Those times have also corresponded to my heaviest periods (on the verge of going to the doctor) where I got anemic even with taking a daily iron pill and B12 vitamin and eating in lots of dark green veggies and beans. Correlation does not equal causation, of course, but it wouldn't surprise me if some people have an easier time absorbing what they need with specific foods, be it beef or something else. That doesn't necessarily doom you to meat consumption, but probably means you have to plan out your meals to make sure you're getting what you need (ideally with an expert, as mentioned above).
On the other hand, while I really like steak/beef I was not particularly craving it during these accidental vegetarian and anemic episodes, so cravings may not be a strong indicator either.
posted by ghost phoneme at 6:48 AM on November 14, 2022
Those times have also corresponded to my heaviest periods (on the verge of going to the doctor) where I got anemic even with taking a daily iron pill and B12 vitamin and eating in lots of dark green veggies and beans. Correlation does not equal causation, of course, but it wouldn't surprise me if some people have an easier time absorbing what they need with specific foods, be it beef or something else. That doesn't necessarily doom you to meat consumption, but probably means you have to plan out your meals to make sure you're getting what you need (ideally with an expert, as mentioned above).
On the other hand, while I really like steak/beef I was not particularly craving it during these accidental vegetarian and anemic episodes, so cravings may not be a strong indicator either.
posted by ghost phoneme at 6:48 AM on November 14, 2022
I'm a former vegetarian who is still a vegetarian if I needed to label it, but I refuse to label it.
Eat what you want and don't let anyone make you feel badly. Life is short and sometimes terrible but sometimes not terrible, and with all the total nonsense happening in the world, the last thing anyone needs is to feel guilty or miserable about a burger or bacon or cheese.
You do you.
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 11:44 AM on November 14, 2022 [3 favorites]
Eat what you want and don't let anyone make you feel badly. Life is short and sometimes terrible but sometimes not terrible, and with all the total nonsense happening in the world, the last thing anyone needs is to feel guilty or miserable about a burger or bacon or cheese.
You do you.
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 11:44 AM on November 14, 2022 [3 favorites]
I have been a 90% vegetarian / pescatarian for many years. Once in a while - once or twice a year? Sometimes less? - I will crave and then eat meat. I only eat humanely raised local meat. I don’t get sick at all. I feel a little guilty but I survive. FWIW before menopause when I was going through fibroid peri menopause hell I craved red meat more; nowadays it’s more something weirdly specific like 5 spice chicken or a turkey sandwich.
Life is short, humans are fallible, our cousins the great apes eat meat at rare intervals, once on the internet I saw a deer snatch a live bird out of a bush and eat it, the world is large and complicated and eating meat every so often does not diminish your standing as a messy but mostly moral person.
posted by mygothlaundry at 12:59 PM on November 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
Life is short, humans are fallible, our cousins the great apes eat meat at rare intervals, once on the internet I saw a deer snatch a live bird out of a bush and eat it, the world is large and complicated and eating meat every so often does not diminish your standing as a messy but mostly moral person.
posted by mygothlaundry at 12:59 PM on November 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
for many years i was mostly vegetarian except for hamburgers and cheesesteaks (yes i was in philly). then i went full vegetarian a few years ago (5 or 6). the last year or so i have gone back to having cow meat a few times a month (because i was having major red meat cravings). and it is always pretty tasty, but i always feel horrible after (mentally) and so guilty and sad. and sometimes that guilt comes on while i'm eating, and then i can't enjoy my meal anymore and just eat the sides.
i think you're not a bad person if you give it a try. you may find that you can't even mentally stomach it.
posted by misanthropicsarah at 2:36 PM on November 14, 2022
i think you're not a bad person if you give it a try. you may find that you can't even mentally stomach it.
posted by misanthropicsarah at 2:36 PM on November 14, 2022
Start real small. The bacteria inside you that help you digest your food have not had meat for a long, long time, so the ones that specialize in meat have dwindled in number. They are not going to be able to gear up fast. The bacteria that specializes in helping you digest beans and stuff like that have huge populations but they may be nonplussed if they are confronted with meat and not able to help. A serving of meat is supposedly the size of a deck of playing cards. Don't start with two servings. Half a serving might be a good idea.
You might find it really delicious and get the urge to gorge on it. Don't do that. Serious digestive complaints could result. Build up the serving size gradually and watch for problems. If you feel a little off don't eat as much the next time you try. Get meat that can be frozen and freeze the rest of it and wait a week before you do it again. But don't wait too long. If you are going to eat meat you will need to encourage the meat-digesting bacteria population to rise to a slightly higher level. If you only eat the meat every six months the serving size might have to remain really small. Not everyone has issues with reintroducing meat, but some people do and bingeing is the best way to ensure there are problems.
If you crave something there is a reason and the reason could easily be that your body wants whatever is in meat and isn't getting it from substitutes. It appears that our digestive bacteria can produce cravings.
As for the ethics of it - It's perfectly possible that the almond milk you may be drinking could be worse for the environment than the meat you are craving. Almond trees take a heck of a lot of water and then there are pesticides that kill millions of organisms... Everything is a trade off. So the question to ask is what you can do to make this occasion less harmful and less wrong.
Try to source local, grass fed meat: Reduce harm. If you are going to eat meat find meat that comes from animals that were treated with some empathy, and had something other than an utterly miserable life in a feed lot. Get it local to reduce the transportation pollution cost.
Do something you don't usually do, to improve this world and the lives of animals that share it with you: Like a carbon credit, you can make the ethical balance better by doing something else. What you do should depend on what you think is most important and is within your means. You could donate twice the amount you spend on the meat to an elephant rescue shelter, or order milkweed seeds on line to plant a monarch butterfly garden, or write a letter to your local politician asking them to support renewable energy and reduce gasoline dependence, or whatever feels like it would help the most.
posted by Jane the Brown at 11:37 PM on November 15, 2022 [1 favorite]
You might find it really delicious and get the urge to gorge on it. Don't do that. Serious digestive complaints could result. Build up the serving size gradually and watch for problems. If you feel a little off don't eat as much the next time you try. Get meat that can be frozen and freeze the rest of it and wait a week before you do it again. But don't wait too long. If you are going to eat meat you will need to encourage the meat-digesting bacteria population to rise to a slightly higher level. If you only eat the meat every six months the serving size might have to remain really small. Not everyone has issues with reintroducing meat, but some people do and bingeing is the best way to ensure there are problems.
If you crave something there is a reason and the reason could easily be that your body wants whatever is in meat and isn't getting it from substitutes. It appears that our digestive bacteria can produce cravings.
As for the ethics of it - It's perfectly possible that the almond milk you may be drinking could be worse for the environment than the meat you are craving. Almond trees take a heck of a lot of water and then there are pesticides that kill millions of organisms... Everything is a trade off. So the question to ask is what you can do to make this occasion less harmful and less wrong.
Try to source local, grass fed meat: Reduce harm. If you are going to eat meat find meat that comes from animals that were treated with some empathy, and had something other than an utterly miserable life in a feed lot. Get it local to reduce the transportation pollution cost.
Do something you don't usually do, to improve this world and the lives of animals that share it with you: Like a carbon credit, you can make the ethical balance better by doing something else. What you do should depend on what you think is most important and is within your means. You could donate twice the amount you spend on the meat to an elephant rescue shelter, or order milkweed seeds on line to plant a monarch butterfly garden, or write a letter to your local politician asking them to support renewable energy and reduce gasoline dependence, or whatever feels like it would help the most.
posted by Jane the Brown at 11:37 PM on November 15, 2022 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Thank you everyone for your thoughtful responses on both sides of the argument. I haven’t changed anything in my diet at this point, but you’ve given a lot of food for thought!
One thing I started doing since posting this question is make a concerted effort to up my iron and B12, so I’ve been taking a liquid iron and B vitamin complex in addition to my daily iron pill. It’s maybe too soon to tell for sure but after less than two weeks of this I really feel more energetic and I’m not craving meat like I was before.
Also, those impossible burgers really are good for a meat craving.
posted by vanitas at 10:29 AM on November 25, 2022 [1 favorite]
One thing I started doing since posting this question is make a concerted effort to up my iron and B12, so I’ve been taking a liquid iron and B vitamin complex in addition to my daily iron pill. It’s maybe too soon to tell for sure but after less than two weeks of this I really feel more energetic and I’m not craving meat like I was before.
Also, those impossible burgers really are good for a meat craving.
posted by vanitas at 10:29 AM on November 25, 2022 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
I was a vegetarian for a long time, then went back to eating some meat for personal health & nutrition reasons. Then I spent a long time with a lapsed Hindu guy, who generally ate vegetarian but would indulge in the occasional (ethically raised, fancy) steak with me.
posted by sixswitch at 7:09 PM on November 13, 2022 [4 favorites]