Am I crazy for even considering this career change?
November 5, 2022 8:50 AM   Subscribe

Currently, I work at a large tech company. I am quite tenured there, well-respected, and make a generous salary. However, after such a long time in the role, I'm looking for a change. Am I crazy for considering a significant, significant pay cut to move to a high-stress public sector job?

While my current job has been great, I find myself wanting more out how I spend my time, namely doing something that's more in line with my values (service, contribution, generosity). I want to work with youth and families (determined after spending quite a bit of time volunteering in that area), and recently applied to a job as and now have an interview for a role as a child protective services investigator. I've done a lot of research, and I'm aware that I'm considering a role that is stressful, thankless, and difficult. I'm also aware that the "system" is extremely flawed and underfunded. But I'm also aware there are youth out there that need advocates and help to get out of terrible situations.

By all practical measures (money, stress, working from home, etc.) it doesn't make sense for me to make this move at all. But I'm attracted to the potential to try something new and make a difference in the lives of kids and teens. Am I being naive? What am I not considering?
posted by averageamateur to Work & Money (31 answers total) 6 users marked this as a favorite
 
Can you go back to something approximating your old job/salary if you want to? If so, go ahead--you may be making a mistake but you'll have a story to tell, at least. Personally I think you're being naive but who knows, maybe you'll be the one who beats the odds?
posted by kingdead at 8:54 AM on November 5, 2022 [2 favorites]


Good for you to want to be one of the helpers.

That being said, it is a very stressful job. Ms. Windo is an attorney that works in the field, and it is very disheartening at times. Sometimes the system is just fucked up.

If you can handle the stress, and the pay cut, and are able to handle the often hostile environment you will be getting involved in, then go for it.
posted by Windopaene at 8:57 AM on November 5, 2022 [4 favorites]


I wonder if there might be some kind of compromise, like you quit your job, but then take up part-time tech work that might still pay more than the CPS job, and then spend half your time volunteering with/advocating for kids/maybe helping teach them to code.
posted by pinochiette at 8:57 AM on November 5, 2022 [8 favorites]


Best answer: This is the kind of job you take home with you in terms of stress and trauma, so if you live with others I'd definitely be thinking about the effects on their home lives. How are you going to keep that from bleeding onto them? If you're not already in therapy will you have the time and money to get into therapy if you need it to deal with the things you may see in your new role?

Have you tried living for a while on the salary you'd make in that kind of role, to be sure you are okay with the tradeoffs you'll have to make?

Those are the first things that occur to me beyond what you've mentioned.

I don't at all think it's a wild idea to make a big career change to make your life line up better with your values. I do think there are a lot of things to think about, and that it's good you're considering all of these things before making any decisions.
posted by Stacey at 9:02 AM on November 5, 2022 [12 favorites]


I agree with pinochiette that volunteering is a good idea but even more cautiously, what you might not have considered is volunteering to do child advocacy work before quitting your current job. I would do some testing before jumping all in. Like could you become a CASA volunteer while still working at your current job and experience first how this kind of stress, including all the bureaucracy that goes along with it, actually suits you ?
posted by rainy day girl at 9:03 AM on November 5, 2022 [15 favorites]


As someone in a helping profession that's underpaid but not as stressful as what you're proposing, my answer is... maybe?

If I did this, I would make sure that I could afford to make the rest of my life as stress-free as possible. Therapist in place if needed; easy routines for chores/reproductive labor/self-care; comfortable living space; sustainable plans to stay connected with loved ones. When you consider your current circumstances and the new salary, does this seem doable?

I would also orient myself around the idea that this is the ONLY new project I am taking on during the next 12-24 months. You can't control everything, but you shouldn't be knowingly taking on any other stressors while you're acclimating to this job.

Helping professions are still professions. Do you have a plan for your career progression? How will this job help you get there? What bad labor practices will you need to look out for? Will you be unionized? I've taken some cruddy jobs on my way to better things, but you will never do your best work if you yourself are being exploited. You may want to google "moral injury CPS" to get a sense of worst-case scenarios.
posted by toastedcheese at 9:23 AM on November 5, 2022 [2 favorites]


Seconding what pinochiette said. The job will include a lot of tasks that you will not enjoy or find meaningful. Volunteering, you will be able to focus on the things that you view as most productive, important, or rewarding. Bring in your money in the way that lets you work the fewest hours for the income you need, and that gives you a lot more freedom to live your values.
posted by metasarah at 9:50 AM on November 5, 2022 [1 favorite]


Best answer: What you are considering is quite an extreme change. You are currently comfortable, happy, well paid, psychologically healthy and have a stable situation. You would be going into a situation which is quite the opposite in all ways.

I think your desire to help out can definitely be fulfilled without making such an extreme and sudden change. In the long run taking small steps towards a change that is sustainable will allow you to have a bigger impact than a sudden switch that may crash and burn. While the new option would definitely allow you to help others, it might be so taxing as to be unfulfilling for you personally.

It can be tempting to attach your day job to your identity. I think in this situation it would be good to decouple those to things. You can maintain your current career while still doing other things to help communities. You could switch to part time work while taking on a role like Big Brother/Sister and go from there. Or you could undertake a research degree in a social science field that could make use of your technological knowledge but while also driving change in a particular field.

I would not make this change before implementing some of the above actions and seeing how that works.

Sincerely, a bleeding heart person who is prone to burnout
posted by winterportage at 9:54 AM on November 5, 2022 [12 favorites]


I'm not sure if "child protective services investigator" is an entry-level social services role, but if it is, I would also factor that in. It would be a lot of being told what to do, what you're allowed to do, etc., and that lack of autonomy is a generally known factor in burnout, beyond the emotional tolls of the difficult job and ineffective system.

I work in public mental health, and I'm a believer in public services, but I'm also reasonably high up the chain of command and trying to do my best to move us away from a carceral system that polices people or takes away their rights, so that's my background and bias.
posted by lapis at 9:59 AM on November 5, 2022 [3 favorites]


In terms of volunteering, you could also look into CASA.
posted by lapis at 10:01 AM on November 5, 2022 [1 favorite]


Sorry for the serial posting! I think I mainly realized that I suspect you have more power and influence that you can use if you have a good salary in a respected field, and do something like CASA and/or donating and/or advocacy work, rather than if you become a front-line entry-level cog in the system.

And if the goal is really more to interact with kids and families, there are so many healthier ways to do than in trying to take families apart.
posted by lapis at 10:06 AM on November 5, 2022 [7 favorites]


I worked in the field and it is very rewarding and it ate me alive in ways that I did not understand until I left. Others have suggested being a CASA and I suggest that too. You can start there, see how the system works (or doesn’t) and see what might be a good role for you. For instance many workers I know found intake to be the best role for them, or conducting the placement change meetings.
posted by kerf at 10:10 AM on November 5, 2022


You seem to have considered all angles, but I would encourage you to really think hard about this decision. No matter how carefully you look at this position and set of responsibilities from the outside, you are still looking at it from the outside and "wanting to help" is always, even in the brightest light, still a romantic notion compared to the realities of actually doing this job from within the system itself. If you want to help outcomes, your current position makes you more than qualified not only to volunteer in a hands-on capacity but also direct organizations trying to help by serving on their boards. Such a role allows you to help while also maintaining your perspective on the big picture -- people who can see that big picture and change it are what these kids and all kids in their circumstances most need.
posted by desert exile at 10:15 AM on November 5, 2022 [4 favorites]


You really need to reflect upon CPS, especially at the pointy end of the stick, not feeling / working much like a "helping" service at all.

You are going to be giving a pass to very bad parents for not being quite bad enough (and a small percentage of those decisions will end or horribly), and when they are bad enough to merit removal, you'll be mostly moving them to a foster care system with appallingly poor outcomes.

The abuse and neglect which is so bad as to merit removal is mostly not because the parents are evil but because they too poor and cognitively inadequate to parent and that's a heartbreaker.

You'll spend some time as a cog in the wheel of the custody and visitation fights of those deranged by vengeance or mental illness.

Does this mean the job is not necessary or valuable? No. It just means that on a day to day basis you are in a grind that does not at all feel like saving the world.
posted by MattD at 10:21 AM on November 5, 2022 [9 favorites]


I'm in a relatively low paid, high stress position (legal services) and wouldn't trade it for a corporate job. However, if you've never worked or volunteered in this system, you absolutely should do some volunteering before you change your whole life. Jobs like this are never how they appear from the outside. Also, please read up on how CPS is part of the systemic racist policing of low income parents of color to make sure you're going into this with your eyes open.
posted by Mavri at 11:00 AM on November 5, 2022 [2 favorites]


If you are not supporting any dependents, I see no reason why you shouldn't make this career change for yourself.
posted by Stuka at 11:32 AM on November 5, 2022


I am in such a job. I view my job as ideal for the values you mention because the money I can donate from my job is radically more useful than the time I can contribute. My money can easily fund multiple people to do work as volunteers or as non profit workers, whereas I, myself, am only one person.

Leaving my job would be doing a disservice to generosity, service, and contribution - it would be a step backwards.
posted by saeculorum at 11:36 AM on November 5, 2022 [6 favorites]


One question to reflect on is how well you understand the role of CPS. Its role in the lives of children and their families can be morally murky, so you should be prepared for that. If you haven't already read it, I'd suggest checking out To the End of June, a book about the foster care system by Cris Beam.
posted by reren at 12:19 PM on November 5, 2022 [1 favorite]


You can try it for a year. If you want to re-enter your old job market, list the one year role as a sabbatical.
posted by DarlingBri at 12:44 PM on November 5, 2022 [1 favorite]


I’m a software engineer prone to the same impulse every few months. I often think of a do-gooder friend who told me basically what saeculorm says more eloquently above, about how much good one person can do through donations. Or of this old Onion gem about nonprofit work. I do agree with the posts above about how volunteers and interns often get to try the best parts of the job — without the actual pressures of committing to it.
posted by johngoren at 1:01 PM on November 5, 2022


Honestly, I would not make this move. I think you will have WAY MORE impact volunteering than getting into the trenches. Child protective services is an extremely difficult field to work in and you will be disappointed more often than you will feel like you have made a difference. Part of this is the bureaucracy and rules that constrain you and part of it is that your efforts will not be appreciated by most of the people you encounter.

Have you considered being a CASA? Or a Big Brother/ Big Sister? You can make an exceptional difference in the life of one child which can be as much of a reward as what you would be able to accomplish as a CPS worker.

Also, consider that you may burn out after one to two years and what would you do then? Get back into tech? Would you be able to do that? According to your profile, you are 47 and maybe you have saved up enough to do this job without taking a financial hit, but it still seems like a short-term plan at best.
posted by tafetta, darling! at 1:45 PM on November 5, 2022 [2 favorites]


Have you considered that you won’t always make a difference? Have you considered the times your hands will be tied and you’ll be unable to help? Have you considered the people that will hate you, both rightly and wrongly, and the pull toward seeing all your actions as justified as a result because someone has to stand up for you?

CPS workers can help. The system can help. It has glaring holes, though, and especially if you’re in a Republican-controlled state, your agency’s budget will shrink and your workload will increase as a result. Please consider if this will be sustainable for you.
posted by epj at 2:13 PM on November 5, 2022


I hear you. I'm a bleeding heart in the tech field, and sometimes, it feels really unrewarding.

Is it possible for you to pivot your skills to working for a company, that makes software that helps people? There are plenty of nonprofits that need tech workers, and sometimes have a hard time filling those positions, because they don't pay as much as the big tech companies do.

Personally, I got a tech job working on educational software. It's in my same career as before, but I feel like I'm making a more concrete, positive change in the world.
posted by spinifex23 at 2:24 PM on November 5, 2022


Best answer: I strongly, strongly suggest you talk to some people who work for your local CPS if possible and ask them if they feel they are making a difference in the lives of their clients or merely treading water to keep up with paperwork and shuffling people through a broken system. I work for Adult Protective Services and have an ongoing informal survey of my coworkers about what percent of the time they feel they can do anything of any use for their clients. It's running between 10% and 15%. CPS jobs are high turnover, quick burnout jobs not just because it's tough work but for reasons better covered by Graeber in Bullshit Jobs. I'm not a CPS abolitionist as at least one of my friends who worked for CPS is, but I do wonder if you understand that everyone goes into these jobs with the knowledge that there are youth that need advocates, and this is not enough.
posted by less-of-course at 2:25 PM on November 5, 2022


Do not. Lifetime public servant here (20 years next year parks and rec and fire/EMS) who fights with herself about leaving for the private sector every day, sometimes several times a day. One of my friends in grad school was longtime DSS and finally after 20 years and a master’s degree (MPA) was able to shift into policy. It is really, really hard on the psyche and I say this as someone who’s coming from a perspective of an emergency services worker. I’m childfree and pediatric calls jack me up something awful. Public benefits are shit and local/state governments are making them worse by the legislative session. If you value autonomy and thinking for yourself and working with people who want to do more than the bare minimum, please reconsider this idea - this is NOT ALL PUBLIC SERVANTS. And it’s really not the idealistic ones right out of college or making a career switch, but the lamentations and jokes about bureaucracy and burnout and cronyism in the public sector exist for a reason. I am not the same fireman as I was way back when, and I’m not gonna be; that person is worn down.
I’m not trying to be Debbie Downer, but I am a realist. Do not underestimate the toll this can take on your finances and mental health.
THAT BEING SAID, if you decide to make the jump, Godspeed.
posted by sara is disenchanted at 2:42 PM on November 5, 2022


I think there are much much better ways to work with Childrem and Families than being in DCFS/CPS systems. One of the reasons that you have an interview is because CPS turnover is so so high. Turnover is high because there are very high caseloads, poor management, issues with discrimination, bias, and abuse, and legal responsibilities. It's a massive job in a terribly underfunded, disrespected system, and to handle that CPS hires underqualified adults to fulfill roles that require are incredibly complex decision making that impact children across their entire lifespan.

If you wish to discuss my perspective feel free to message me and I'll be happy to talk more in depth about my career experiences as an LCSW who has worked adjacent to dcfs for quite a bit now.
posted by AlexiaSky at 2:49 PM on November 5, 2022 [2 favorites]


IMHO it's a great idea to change to a lower paid and even higher stress public sector job. You only have this one life. If you have money put away for retirement already, just live the life that gives you meaning! Buttt... The particular job you are thinking of is especially fraught, rife with opportunities for failure and causing unintentional additional harms. So if I were you I would look at other roles in the social services system that serve kids or families besides this particular one.
posted by latkes at 3:56 PM on November 5, 2022 [1 favorite]


Best answer: In the past I have worked in direct care/social services as have much of my family and friend circle.

I'm finding some of the comments here classist and priviledged.... For all the hand wringing about low pay, a job such as this offers benefits such as health insurance, and is better paid than, say, a teacher’s aide job. Not that this is the OP’s situation, and for anyone who has enjoyed decades of corporate cushiness, I imagine the salary would probably be halved if not more? That would be a big change. But many professionals work in human service (or whatever the phrase is these days) and earn a living.

So I just want to push back a bit on the “this is an awful, stressful job and you would be stupid to leave your velvet cage” With the right mindset, and no huge financial pressure, it could work for you. Also, as others have mentioned, you probably can try it for a year or so and still go back to your cubicle.

To offer specifics, the person I know who did something along the lines of what your role sounds like enjoyed it quite a bit. They had a good amount of autonomy—there was a lot of driving around, which they liked. They had a supportive and competent manager, which I’m sure made a difference. This person was very realistic and not especially motivated by “bleeding heart” emotions, so they were not miserable about the limits of the system. They also liked doing paperwork. They were a two-income home, so the finances were manageable.

Some people couldn’t tolerate the amount of dysfunction such a role would expose them to. But it is very glib to say, you will be “trying to take families apart.” In my experience, you have to be a supremely unfit home for child removal, and, a lot of the difficulty is knowing kids are in lousy home situations, but not lousy enough to warrant removal. (Matt D’s comment speaks to this).

I have been on the other side of the scenario, with CPS involved with kids in my siblings’ family. It was awful, but honestly, it was what needed to happen for the adults to freaking wake up and deal.

I was a Big Sister for many years, and it is not a bad program, but it was just as fraught with the moral confusion of “how is this a solution to generational poverty and dysfunction.”

Lastly, I disagree with the folks saying, just donate money! You obviously want a personal interaction, so honor that.
posted by rhonzo at 4:36 PM on November 5, 2022 [3 favorites]


One way to thinking about this is that working for CPS doesn’t increase the amount of CPS workers in the world, and the person you beat out for the job May actually be better at it than you. So, you working at CPS isn’t going to make the work a better place, because the alternative is someone else has that job, not that the job doesn’t get done. Volunteering, however, does increase the amount of good in the world because there are not a fixed amount of volunteers.
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 4:45 PM on November 5, 2022 [1 favorite]


Response by poster: Thank you all for your wonderful, insightful comments! I have a lot to think about still, but many of your points will help to clarify my thinking.
posted by averageamateur at 5:54 AM on November 6, 2022


1. Understand your own personal goals, those things you want to achieve or otherwise see become a reality based on your values.
2. Understand your actual sphere of influence and where you hold the greatest influence.

For best results, you want to use use point 2 to achieve point 1. So some folks are saying "keep your current job and volunteer and donate money to causes you care about." Maybe that makes sense for you and your situation but there are alternatives as well. The thing is, the alternatives are very specific to your point 1 and point 2, so none of us internet strangers can tell you what's best for you.

A couple of thought experiments which may inspire your own, better ideas:
1. Request a sabbatical period for you to go explore other areas of work and interest. Alternatively, ask to reduce your workload or work week so that you have more time to explore other activities and initiatives that better align your time with your values. This is based on the assumption that the tenure and respect you hold at your current company gives you more room to make and receive such requests.
2. What types of initiatives or programs or movements can you encourage, support, or start within your company or within your industry based on your seniority and connections that better aligns with your goals? These can be big things as well as small things that have the potential to become big as they gain traction. Maybe you are able to accomplish more than you realize by staying within your current job, or maybe leaving your current job but staying within tech or adjacent industries.

I totally get the desire to find ways to spend your precious time in ways that are more meaningful to you than your current lucrative job offers you. I've been in a similar boat. I think it makes sense to see what flexibility and options your current situation provides that can help you build a bridge to what you want to do that takes advantage of the seniority and experience and connections you've built up rather than walking away from them (pretty much) entirely to start over new. Not because I think money and a comfy job are the most important things, but because you may actually be more effective at reaching your personal goals by putting your sphere of influence to work in this way.

In other words, there are likely some unexplored options to look into outside of A. keep current job and B. become a CPS Investigator. I guess that's my worry and where Thought Experiment #2 above comes into play: it's easier to follow into pre-existing jobs or roles that have been been defined for us. What if you could create your own dream role, what does that look like for you?
posted by Goblin Barbarian at 2:58 PM on November 6, 2022 [1 favorite]


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