Pick a computer, (not) any computer
September 29, 2022 12:46 PM Subscribe
I get to pick a new work computer soon, but from a ... limited palette. I have two brands of PC to choose from and then Mac. Can you help me pick? Usage cases and options available inside.
Ok, so I get to pick between Dell 7330, 7430, 7530 and 5570 (comparison-ish). I also have the choice of a few HP models (830, 840). In each of these options I have a 2-in-1 tabletesque version available. Last but not least, two sizes of Macbook Pro and an Air.
My requirements involve media production, 3D modelling and printing, cadding for laser cutting and ideally VR. For this reason I'm leaning strongly towards the Dell 5570 which has Nvidea RTX A2000 onboard. The HP's all have some sort of Intel Iris Xe onboard so I'm more or less discounting them.
So, the question is, would I get more bang for my buck from one of the Macbooks? I understand I can run Windows on a Mac now, but does that make it less powerful or anything? Also, I have heard that the latest Mac doesn't allow that, I believe it's M1 = OK, M2 = nope?
Ok, so I get to pick between Dell 7330, 7430, 7530 and 5570 (comparison-ish). I also have the choice of a few HP models (830, 840). In each of these options I have a 2-in-1 tabletesque version available. Last but not least, two sizes of Macbook Pro and an Air.
My requirements involve media production, 3D modelling and printing, cadding for laser cutting and ideally VR. For this reason I'm leaning strongly towards the Dell 5570 which has Nvidea RTX A2000 onboard. The HP's all have some sort of Intel Iris Xe onboard so I'm more or less discounting them.
So, the question is, would I get more bang for my buck from one of the Macbooks? I understand I can run Windows on a Mac now, but does that make it less powerful or anything? Also, I have heard that the latest Mac doesn't allow that, I believe it's M1 = OK, M2 = nope?
Parallels claims it can now run Windows on M1/2 Macs.
posted by Thorzdad at 1:13 PM on September 29, 2022
posted by Thorzdad at 1:13 PM on September 29, 2022
Best answer: Apple makes great laptops, and they're really nice for graphics work and software development when all that really matters is having a text editor and a command line, but unless you have independent confirmation that yes, the software you want to use does run on an Apple Silicon Mac, I'd stay far away. Apple Silicon is pretty new so the answer is probably "no".
re: Parallels, I've been trying to help a friend get it working on his M1 Mac Mini with no luck so far. I wouldn't count on it as a solution.
VR is basically a non-starter on Macs, as I understand it. SteamVR is supported but Oculus is not.
In my experience, Intel's GPUs are total trash. I understand Iris Xe is an attempt to change that, but still, I'd personally go for the Nvidia without hesitation. The RTX A2000 is probably way overkill for your needs, but whatever, work's paying for it (are they?).
(I'm a developer and huge nerd who has a few Windows boxes and an aging Macbook Pro. The MBP is my "getting shit done" computer because it's basically impossible to do anything fun or cool with it.)
posted by neckro23 at 1:20 PM on September 29, 2022
re: Parallels, I've been trying to help a friend get it working on his M1 Mac Mini with no luck so far. I wouldn't count on it as a solution.
VR is basically a non-starter on Macs, as I understand it. SteamVR is supported but Oculus is not.
In my experience, Intel's GPUs are total trash. I understand Iris Xe is an attempt to change that, but still, I'd personally go for the Nvidia without hesitation. The RTX A2000 is probably way overkill for your needs, but whatever, work's paying for it (are they?).
(I'm a developer and huge nerd who has a few Windows boxes and an aging Macbook Pro. The MBP is my "getting shit done" computer because it's basically impossible to do anything fun or cool with it.)
posted by neckro23 at 1:20 PM on September 29, 2022
There's an ARM version of Windows that you can run on Apple Silicon (I'm running it in Parallels on my MacBook pro).
What software are you running? Are you doing far more of one thing than another? That would dictate which way you go. For instance, If you're doing mainly media production, like in Davinci Resolve, you're generally going to get much better performance on a new Mac. If you're mainly doing CAD stuff, you're probably using PC software anyway, so go with a Dell. I do 3D modeling in Cinema4D on my MacBook, but I now that I could get better rendering performance on a PC with a high-end graphics card (the laptops you mention may not actually have a faster graphics card than the MacBook, so you should look at some benchmarks).
posted by jonathanhughes at 1:23 PM on September 29, 2022
What software are you running? Are you doing far more of one thing than another? That would dictate which way you go. For instance, If you're doing mainly media production, like in Davinci Resolve, you're generally going to get much better performance on a new Mac. If you're mainly doing CAD stuff, you're probably using PC software anyway, so go with a Dell. I do 3D modeling in Cinema4D on my MacBook, but I now that I could get better rendering performance on a PC with a high-end graphics card (the laptops you mention may not actually have a faster graphics card than the MacBook, so you should look at some benchmarks).
posted by jonathanhughes at 1:23 PM on September 29, 2022
FWIW, if I was doing lots of 3D stuff I would not bother with a laptop. You will get far better performance from a desktop, and have a lot more options in terms of graphics cards. But, maybe that's not an option for you.
posted by SNACKeR at 1:42 PM on September 29, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by SNACKeR at 1:42 PM on September 29, 2022 [1 favorite]
I love Macs, only rarely buy or use PCs, but you do not want to run CAD in emulation/virtualization. That's a demanding application even natively, and you would need twice the RAM for equivalent performance. I have done it, but it's painful except for very simple models. You used to be able to use "Bootcamp" to run full Windows on a Mac, but that doesn't work for any new Macs because Windows doesn't run on ARM processors. I would get the one with the fastest discrete GPU.
posted by wnissen at 2:22 PM on September 29, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by wnissen at 2:22 PM on September 29, 2022 [2 favorites]
There are rumors that with the recent changes to mining Ethereum the market will be flooded with cheap graphics cards soon, but who knows. All of the attempts to run windows on an M2 look like unstable kludges.
posted by mecran01 at 2:36 PM on September 29, 2022
posted by mecran01 at 2:36 PM on September 29, 2022
Best answer: There's an ARM version of Windows that you can run on Apple Silicon
It's not safe to assume that there are also ARM binaries for the applications you need. So even if an ARM version of Windows could be persuaded to run those, it would be doing so via some kind of Intel emulator and unlikely to achieve native speeds.
Also, HP used to make good shit but now they just make shit. Go for the best Dell they'll buy you.
posted by flabdablet at 3:08 PM on September 29, 2022 [2 favorites]
It's not safe to assume that there are also ARM binaries for the applications you need. So even if an ARM version of Windows could be persuaded to run those, it would be doing so via some kind of Intel emulator and unlikely to achieve native speeds.
Also, HP used to make good shit but now they just make shit. Go for the best Dell they'll buy you.
posted by flabdablet at 3:08 PM on September 29, 2022 [2 favorites]
I'll second going for the max Windows machine. I love my M1 MacBook Air, but I keep a Windows laptop on retainer in case I must have Windows. Parallels only (supposedly) runs the ARM version of Windows, which Microsoft hasn't officially released for Macintosh. Intel-based Macs are on their way out; the last in production is the Mac Pro, and the M2 or whatever version will probably be announced before the end of the year, since Apple promised to be exclusively on M-series chips by the end of 2022.
posted by lhauser at 4:51 PM on September 29, 2022
posted by lhauser at 4:51 PM on September 29, 2022
I'd be the first person to recommend a Mac, especially the post-Intel machines, but it is not an ideal machine at this time for your Intel-based, Windows-centric needs.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 5:23 PM on September 29, 2022
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 5:23 PM on September 29, 2022
Ditto flabdablet. HP (at least their Enterprise Switches) are so much crap that I quit my job rather than actually use them. Wouldn't trust them at all. Work wise, I've had long good luck with Dell, especially they're like a Work Vendor with large contracts and such. If your work buys lots of them on like Purchase Orders, they're good. Wouldn't go Mac for all the reasons mentioned above.
posted by zengargoyle at 5:54 PM on September 29, 2022
posted by zengargoyle at 5:54 PM on September 29, 2022
Just for the record (in case anyone else is reading along and curious), I run some Intel Windows apps in Parallels on an M1 Pro, and they work great, and very fast (subjectively maybe even faster than on the Intel computer this replaced). But I still don't recommend that approach if Windows apps are your main use case. It works for me because it's just a secondary thing.
posted by primethyme at 6:07 PM on September 29, 2022
posted by primethyme at 6:07 PM on September 29, 2022
Best answer: A Dell 5560 is my daily driver for work. I like it. Solidly built, runs linux with no odd driver issues.
Things I don't like:
The NVIDIA GPU will drain the battery fast. But I am usually plugged in.
USB-C only plugs, I wish it had just one USB-A port for all my old peripherals.
The webcam in the bezel can wash out if there is glancing light above or beside it.
posted by nickggully at 8:31 PM on September 29, 2022
Things I don't like:
The NVIDIA GPU will drain the battery fast. But I am usually plugged in.
USB-C only plugs, I wish it had just one USB-A port for all my old peripherals.
The webcam in the bezel can wash out if there is glancing light above or beside it.
posted by nickggully at 8:31 PM on September 29, 2022
If you want to do VR at the moment you're definitely going to want a Windows machine, and of the Windows machines in your selection the Dell Precision 5570 is by far the most suitable. I'd recommend getting it with either the i9 or the better of the two i7s, at least 32GB of RAM, and at least 1TB SSD.
That said, the 14 and 16 inch M1 MacBook Pros are objectively way better computers, and if you can verify that there are native Apple silicon versions of the programs you use you will probably have a much better time with one of them.
Also going to issue a strong concurrence with the above claims that HP is basically filth these days.
And tangentially if you're getting into VR I'd recommend avoiding Oculus because the meta integration is just getting nastier and nastier.
posted by implied_otter at 6:12 AM on September 30, 2022
That said, the 14 and 16 inch M1 MacBook Pros are objectively way better computers, and if you can verify that there are native Apple silicon versions of the programs you use you will probably have a much better time with one of them.
Also going to issue a strong concurrence with the above claims that HP is basically filth these days.
And tangentially if you're getting into VR I'd recommend avoiding Oculus because the meta integration is just getting nastier and nastier.
posted by implied_otter at 6:12 AM on September 30, 2022
Response by poster: This was great help, thanks folks. I am 100% going for the chunky HP so. I hope they will let me get more RAM and HD for it (and that the version they have PO's for (major institution) is the version I'm seeing on the site. Thanks for the headsup on the lack of A-ports, that's gonna get old quick, but so are my peripherals!
posted by Iteki at 9:57 AM on September 30, 2022
posted by Iteki at 9:57 AM on September 30, 2022
I presume you're actually going for the chunky Dell, not the chunky HP, based on which answers you marked as best.
You can get all the ports they left off for the sake of fashionable thinness, and capture a little of the flavour of the Apple experience, by adding one of these 11-in-1 USB-C dongles. They work well and don't cost much.
posted by flabdablet at 7:14 PM on September 30, 2022 [1 favorite]
You can get all the ports they left off for the sake of fashionable thinness, and capture a little of the flavour of the Apple experience, by adding one of these 11-in-1 USB-C dongles. They work well and don't cost much.
posted by flabdablet at 7:14 PM on September 30, 2022 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Ack, yes, lol! And thats a cool dongle, thanks!
posted by Iteki at 9:08 PM on September 30, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by Iteki at 9:08 PM on September 30, 2022 [1 favorite]
Those are cool dongles, and as one who was making a living off computers before USB first became a thing I am always astonished at the frankly insane rate at which information can be shovelled through a USB-C connector in 2022.
The 5570 has three of those. If I owned one, I would be sticking tape over two of its USB-C ports to keep dust out, minimizing the number of connect/disconnect cycles on the remaining one as much as I could, and doing most of my unplugging and replugging with the sockets on the cheap and easily replaceable dongle instead.
I'm sure the USB-C designers have done yeoman's work on the robustness of those tiny little connectors but they are tiny and if a laptop that relied on them as much as modern machines do were to get to the end of its useful service life without at least two USB-C connectors having either worn out or broken off their circuit boards I'd be even more astonished than I already am.
posted by flabdablet at 11:04 PM on September 30, 2022 [1 favorite]
The 5570 has three of those. If I owned one, I would be sticking tape over two of its USB-C ports to keep dust out, minimizing the number of connect/disconnect cycles on the remaining one as much as I could, and doing most of my unplugging and replugging with the sockets on the cheap and easily replaceable dongle instead.
I'm sure the USB-C designers have done yeoman's work on the robustness of those tiny little connectors but they are tiny and if a laptop that relied on them as much as modern machines do were to get to the end of its useful service life without at least two USB-C connectors having either worn out or broken off their circuit boards I'd be even more astonished than I already am.
posted by flabdablet at 11:04 PM on September 30, 2022 [1 favorite]
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It’s intel = ok, Apple silicon (M1, M1 pro, M2) = nope, but whatever intel macs are left are pretty aged now and not worth it imo. If you need actual windows software definitely do not recommend Mac. (Otherwise I’d recommend M1 pro over any dell I’ve ever seen.)
posted by advil at 12:56 PM on September 29, 2022 [2 favorites]