Would you find this helpful?
September 11, 2022 9:20 AM Subscribe
I oversee someone who I believe was mislead about their opportunities where I work. This was before I came in, and I was unaware about a lot of backstory until recently. I feel bad and I'd like to apologize to them that they were not treated well, but is that helpful? Would you find that helpful?
Someone I oversee did not get the promotional opportunity they were seeking. It wasn't my decision and it had little to do with them as a worker and more about fit, background, need etc. Last week when we met, they laid it all out for me and I learned that 1. they had been told that their current position (counting on 3 years now) was originally pitched to them as temporary and 2. they had been led to believe that this promotional opportunity would be available to them. They were MAD. I'd be mad too. Unfortunately, I'm not able to correct any of this - I can't even really give them new or different opportunities in their current position (last time I tried this with someone I oversee, my manager called an impromptu screaming performance review on me - it was....fun.)
I'm going to meet with the person I oversee again this week, and I'm wondering if it'd be helpful to apologize to them and share that 1. I was unaware of any of this backstory and 2. It wasn't right what happened to them. Is this helpful at all given that I can't change the past or really even the future, or is this sort of useless thing that really is intended to make me feel better? Would this be useful to you?
Someone I oversee did not get the promotional opportunity they were seeking. It wasn't my decision and it had little to do with them as a worker and more about fit, background, need etc. Last week when we met, they laid it all out for me and I learned that 1. they had been told that their current position (counting on 3 years now) was originally pitched to them as temporary and 2. they had been led to believe that this promotional opportunity would be available to them. They were MAD. I'd be mad too. Unfortunately, I'm not able to correct any of this - I can't even really give them new or different opportunities in their current position (last time I tried this with someone I oversee, my manager called an impromptu screaming performance review on me - it was....fun.)
I'm going to meet with the person I oversee again this week, and I'm wondering if it'd be helpful to apologize to them and share that 1. I was unaware of any of this backstory and 2. It wasn't right what happened to them. Is this helpful at all given that I can't change the past or really even the future, or is this sort of useless thing that really is intended to make me feel better? Would this be useful to you?
If they want to leave, you can write a detailed letter of reference that they can take with them.
posted by aniola at 9:24 AM on September 11, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by aniola at 9:24 AM on September 11, 2022 [2 favorites]
It might be nice but also maddening. Is there anything specific you can do to help them? Maybe offer some reflection-based mentoring during your check-in sessions to help them "reboot" their perspective and think about their current "fit" as well as potential opportunities either within XXcorp or outside XXcorp - What do you like about what you do? What do you dislike? What do you wish you had known when you took this job? Who at XXcorp do you wish you knew better? How do your roles interact? How can we facilitate that connection? What is your next goal? What steps do you need to get there? etc.
posted by nkknkk at 9:41 AM on September 11, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by nkknkk at 9:41 AM on September 11, 2022 [1 favorite]
Best answer: It's possible they weren't misled. It's pretty common for people to misread signs from their employers -- like, to think they've been promised something they haven't, to misunderstand how promotions work at their company, or to just have wild expectations in general. And even in this case, they are mad in part because they believed this promotional opportunity would be made available to them? It sounds like it was made available to them. They were able to apply, and it sounds like they were considered.
That said, people do appreciate apologies when they feel wronged, and I don't see any reason not to apologize. But before you do, I think you should try to suss out what their opportunities may be at your company. Like, talk to your boss, or the bosses in the departments they may aspire to move into. See if there's a path for them. That way you're not just apologizing for something that happened, you're taking responsibility as their manager for helping fix it. That is more valuable to them, than just an apology.
(That assumes your company is reasonable. If your boss screams at you, maybe it's not. If you don't see any path to progression for your person, then yeah just apologize.)
posted by Susan PG at 9:43 AM on September 11, 2022 [12 favorites]
That said, people do appreciate apologies when they feel wronged, and I don't see any reason not to apologize. But before you do, I think you should try to suss out what their opportunities may be at your company. Like, talk to your boss, or the bosses in the departments they may aspire to move into. See if there's a path for them. That way you're not just apologizing for something that happened, you're taking responsibility as their manager for helping fix it. That is more valuable to them, than just an apology.
(That assumes your company is reasonable. If your boss screams at you, maybe it's not. If you don't see any path to progression for your person, then yeah just apologize.)
posted by Susan PG at 9:43 AM on September 11, 2022 [12 favorites]
Best answer: Based on the information you've provided about your own manager, I think it's worth asking yourself if you feel like you are expected to be complicit in keeping this employee in the position they're in now by stringing them along, either by implicitly endorsing empty promises from above or by making those promises yourself.
If you are, I'd suggest the problem is bigger than having an unhappy report--you're being asked to be a bad manager, and you need to think about how you're going to deal with that. If it were me, and I had the means, I'd be looking for a new job for myself. A question I'd ask myself under the circumstances: how would my manager respond if I told them the other employee was unhappy and possibly had one foot out the door, and there was a meaningful possibility we'd need to hire someone new for that position?
posted by pullayup at 9:43 AM on September 11, 2022 [6 favorites]
If you are, I'd suggest the problem is bigger than having an unhappy report--you're being asked to be a bad manager, and you need to think about how you're going to deal with that. If it were me, and I had the means, I'd be looking for a new job for myself. A question I'd ask myself under the circumstances: how would my manager respond if I told them the other employee was unhappy and possibly had one foot out the door, and there was a meaningful possibility we'd need to hire someone new for that position?
posted by pullayup at 9:43 AM on September 11, 2022 [6 favorites]
Best answer: I would not apologize. They may have misunderstood, they could even be lying. And apologizing sends the message that the company wronged them, which could have consequences. You did not wrong them; unless your manager wants you to apologize, it opens up trouble.
Instead, I would meet with them to assess what they could learn and how they could perform to become eligible for promotion and/or a raise.
I would look for ways to make sure this person got good opportunities in general and opportunities for training and experience, specifically. I would let them know you're looking for training opportunities. Ideally you would be advocating for all staff you supervise.
posted by theora55 at 9:57 AM on September 11, 2022 [21 favorites]
Instead, I would meet with them to assess what they could learn and how they could perform to become eligible for promotion and/or a raise.
I would look for ways to make sure this person got good opportunities in general and opportunities for training and experience, specifically. I would let them know you're looking for training opportunities. Ideally you would be advocating for all staff you supervise.
posted by theora55 at 9:57 AM on September 11, 2022 [21 favorites]
If I was in this situation as an employee, I'd really hope that a manager in your position who considered me a valuable employee would be supportive and willing to provide excellent references when I looked outside the company for a position that allowed me the move upward that isn't available to me in my current employment.
I would appreciate honesty by the manager - that they were unaware of the dynamics, especially if they had supported me to my face in seeking the promotion. I would still remain suspicious that the manager was not being straightforward in an effort to keep the peace, though I would likely not let the manager become aware of that. The manager being understanding of my unhappiness and not attempting to sabotage me if I chose to leave the company would be important.
If I were the manager, I'd discreetly say what I considered safe to the employee, being supportive but making them aware that I had no power in the situation. (But wished I did! And that I greatly value them! And praise, etc.) And empathy! That you understand if it leaves a bad taste in their mouth and makes them question their future at the company. (Because this is being thought about, even if the employee is afraid to say it out loud to you.)
And then, I'd stop to consider what else I might be in the dark about. Perhaps it's dynamics regarding other employees. But perhaps - given my relative "newness" and the fact that things were being kept from me, even about those working under me - it's dynamics regarding myself.
That, I'd take a really hard look at. And consider how secure I felt this job to be, if there was appreciate for MY work and ample opportunity for vertical movement, and if I was comfortable quietly being complicit in the dynamics that resulted in this situation in the first place.
posted by stormyteal at 10:14 AM on September 11, 2022 [1 favorite]
I would appreciate honesty by the manager - that they were unaware of the dynamics, especially if they had supported me to my face in seeking the promotion. I would still remain suspicious that the manager was not being straightforward in an effort to keep the peace, though I would likely not let the manager become aware of that. The manager being understanding of my unhappiness and not attempting to sabotage me if I chose to leave the company would be important.
If I were the manager, I'd discreetly say what I considered safe to the employee, being supportive but making them aware that I had no power in the situation. (But wished I did! And that I greatly value them! And praise, etc.) And empathy! That you understand if it leaves a bad taste in their mouth and makes them question their future at the company. (Because this is being thought about, even if the employee is afraid to say it out loud to you.)
And then, I'd stop to consider what else I might be in the dark about. Perhaps it's dynamics regarding other employees. But perhaps - given my relative "newness" and the fact that things were being kept from me, even about those working under me - it's dynamics regarding myself.
That, I'd take a really hard look at. And consider how secure I felt this job to be, if there was appreciate for MY work and ample opportunity for vertical movement, and if I was comfortable quietly being complicit in the dynamics that resulted in this situation in the first place.
posted by stormyteal at 10:14 AM on September 11, 2022 [1 favorite]
Just use empathetic, not sympathetic, language.
"I understand you're frustrated. I wouldn't like that if it happened to me, either."
It's not your place to apologize, and if you do you will risk this person spiraling into a fixation on the unjustness of their treatment, vs. what is more important for them, which is understanding their choices and deciding whether they want to continue with your employer.
You say you "oversee" them. Not sure if that's an actual direct "control over opportunities and documentation of performance" management relationship, a supervisory-but-not-people-management one or what.
If you're the actual people manager and have some control over their work assignments, etc. you can also say, "people take jobs and roles so they can learn and grow their careers. This opportunity you were hoping for isn't on the table but I want to work with you to figure out how we could find other opportunities for growth. There are limits to what I can do, and I promise I will not commit to anything I can't deliver, but I'd like to make part of our 1:1s every week looking for those opportunities for you." In the company I work for, that usually means looking for stretch assignments, giving them ownership of a part of the team's work (e.g. "you said you felt like your test writing skills were lacking, so you're the lead on our team's test process") etc.
If you have control over their time and slack in the system, another good-faith thing you can do to ease some of the hurt is block out time in their week where they can do some sort of professional development or work on something more meaningful to them.
posted by mph at 10:21 AM on September 11, 2022 [4 favorites]
"I understand you're frustrated. I wouldn't like that if it happened to me, either."
It's not your place to apologize, and if you do you will risk this person spiraling into a fixation on the unjustness of their treatment, vs. what is more important for them, which is understanding their choices and deciding whether they want to continue with your employer.
You say you "oversee" them. Not sure if that's an actual direct "control over opportunities and documentation of performance" management relationship, a supervisory-but-not-people-management one or what.
If you're the actual people manager and have some control over their work assignments, etc. you can also say, "people take jobs and roles so they can learn and grow their careers. This opportunity you were hoping for isn't on the table but I want to work with you to figure out how we could find other opportunities for growth. There are limits to what I can do, and I promise I will not commit to anything I can't deliver, but I'd like to make part of our 1:1s every week looking for those opportunities for you." In the company I work for, that usually means looking for stretch assignments, giving them ownership of a part of the team's work (e.g. "you said you felt like your test writing skills were lacking, so you're the lead on our team's test process") etc.
If you have control over their time and slack in the system, another good-faith thing you can do to ease some of the hurt is block out time in their week where they can do some sort of professional development or work on something more meaningful to them.
posted by mph at 10:21 AM on September 11, 2022 [4 favorites]
Best answer: Please investigate this first with your manager—employee could be mistaken. Also, investigate what their promo opportunities, if any, actually are. Lay them out clearly to the employee, and go to bat for them to the extent you can.
I guess I don’t understand who the apology is really for unless it’s accompanied by real actionable advice on a path forward—or out, if there is no path forward.
As a new manager, I often made the mistake of doing that “I’m not like a regular manager, I’m a cool manager” over-empathizing thing and I stopped when I realized 1) I was doing it partially for my self-image because I traditionally hated authority figures and couldn’t accept I was management now; and 2) more critically, it was very confusing for my team to hear their boss saying “yeah this is wrong, sorry we suck” without doing anything about it. Expend some of your capital here if you believe that much in this employee.
You can (must!) be understanding, empathetic, human, not a drone, etc in your communication, but an apology without help isn’t helpful.
posted by kapers at 10:58 AM on September 11, 2022 [14 favorites]
I guess I don’t understand who the apology is really for unless it’s accompanied by real actionable advice on a path forward—or out, if there is no path forward.
As a new manager, I often made the mistake of doing that “I’m not like a regular manager, I’m a cool manager” over-empathizing thing and I stopped when I realized 1) I was doing it partially for my self-image because I traditionally hated authority figures and couldn’t accept I was management now; and 2) more critically, it was very confusing for my team to hear their boss saying “yeah this is wrong, sorry we suck” without doing anything about it. Expend some of your capital here if you believe that much in this employee.
You can (must!) be understanding, empathetic, human, not a drone, etc in your communication, but an apology without help isn’t helpful.
posted by kapers at 10:58 AM on September 11, 2022 [14 favorites]
it is a very good idea if you want to be an ally to the person you oversee against the machine that employs you both, and have them respect you personally even if they hate the employer.
it is probably a bad idea if you want to be an ally to your own overseers against your collective underlings.
just depends on how you understand your own role. as an ex-middle-manager I prided myself on doing the former although I was supposed to be doing the latter. this was not good for my own advancement but who cares.
[as far as this person's anger goes, I was in a similar position once, and my direct supervisor was actually to blame (in that he gave me his "personal guarantee" re: career trajectories during recruitment and then once I was hired & let down, fucked off to a better job somewhere else. personal guarantees are obviously meaningless in employment situations, and would have been even if he had the power to back up his mouth. a good lesson for me to learn.)
and yeah I wanted an honest apology. would have quit anyway, but it would have been nice.]
posted by queenofbithynia at 11:27 AM on September 11, 2022 [2 favorites]
it is probably a bad idea if you want to be an ally to your own overseers against your collective underlings.
just depends on how you understand your own role. as an ex-middle-manager I prided myself on doing the former although I was supposed to be doing the latter. this was not good for my own advancement but who cares.
[as far as this person's anger goes, I was in a similar position once, and my direct supervisor was actually to blame (in that he gave me his "personal guarantee" re: career trajectories during recruitment and then once I was hired & let down, fucked off to a better job somewhere else. personal guarantees are obviously meaningless in employment situations, and would have been even if he had the power to back up his mouth. a good lesson for me to learn.)
and yeah I wanted an honest apology. would have quit anyway, but it would have been nice.]
posted by queenofbithynia at 11:27 AM on September 11, 2022 [2 favorites]
How did you react when the person gave you the backstory in last week's meeting?
posted by Iris Gambol at 11:51 AM on September 11, 2022
posted by Iris Gambol at 11:51 AM on September 11, 2022
Maybe it would be good to ask HR for some back story here if you are new to this position…
posted by Bottlecap at 1:17 PM on September 11, 2022
posted by Bottlecap at 1:17 PM on September 11, 2022
queenofbithynia said a lot of what I wanted to say: where is your allegiance really?
I also want to also press on the idea that maybe your job isn't so great and maybe you both should look for opportunities elsewhere?
Really Not Cool to get screamed at for suggesting advancement for people under you. Also Not Cool to imply a position has good chance of promotion if it doesn't. Also what are these 'fit' issues that they can't possibly work on? Often that is code for 'just a little bit too [female/old/poor/brown/queer] for our [racist/sexist/shitty] corporate culture'.
posted by SaltySalticid at 1:52 PM on September 11, 2022 [3 favorites]
I also want to also press on the idea that maybe your job isn't so great and maybe you both should look for opportunities elsewhere?
Really Not Cool to get screamed at for suggesting advancement for people under you. Also Not Cool to imply a position has good chance of promotion if it doesn't. Also what are these 'fit' issues that they can't possibly work on? Often that is code for 'just a little bit too [female/old/poor/brown/queer] for our [racist/sexist/shitty] corporate culture'.
posted by SaltySalticid at 1:52 PM on September 11, 2022 [3 favorites]
I have not been in this exact position but have been on the receiving end of news I wouldn't get a role change that my manager had strongly indicated I would get (to the point of prepping me for it). My manager let me know he didn't agree with the decision and that he had no control over it *, and apologized that I would be disappointed.
This meeting highlighted for me that my manager was either actually not able to help me advance my career, or comfortable with letting me think that he wasn't. That was far more helpful than the apology itself.
This was not 100% true.
Like I said, I realize that this isn't exactly the same situation but at the point of this conversation, no, I didn't find an apology helpful.
posted by sm1tten at 2:42 PM on September 11, 2022 [1 favorite]
This meeting highlighted for me that my manager was either actually not able to help me advance my career, or comfortable with letting me think that he wasn't. That was far more helpful than the apology itself.
This was not 100% true.
Like I said, I realize that this isn't exactly the same situation but at the point of this conversation, no, I didn't find an apology helpful.
posted by sm1tten at 2:42 PM on September 11, 2022 [1 favorite]
Best answer: I think apologizing is the wrong thing. This isn't between you and them. It wasn't a mistake that you made. It's their life that they're living and you're not responsible for all of it. You can be their coach; you can be their manager; you can clarify that you were not aware of this previous discussion (but why should it matter unless you made the hiring decision for that position?); but it's not your place to apologize.
I'd be more like "I could tell how angry you were last week and wanted to talk more about how I can help you in gaining an understanding of the opportunities available for you here and elsewhere, and the extent to which your work in this position can prepare you for the next step." This is all very similar to what mph said above.
I also think you should be communicating with your supervisor along the lines of "this person was extremely disappointed and feels misled," "what are their opportunities likely to be? Can we adjust their responsibilities to prepare them?" and that they may well be exploring other options.
posted by slidell at 3:22 PM on September 11, 2022 [1 favorite]
I'd be more like "I could tell how angry you were last week and wanted to talk more about how I can help you in gaining an understanding of the opportunities available for you here and elsewhere, and the extent to which your work in this position can prepare you for the next step." This is all very similar to what mph said above.
I also think you should be communicating with your supervisor along the lines of "this person was extremely disappointed and feels misled," "what are their opportunities likely to be? Can we adjust their responsibilities to prepare them?" and that they may well be exploring other options.
posted by slidell at 3:22 PM on September 11, 2022 [1 favorite]
Best answer: be very careful about making apologies or representations on behalf of the company. Whatever happened, it happened before you were there. You don't actually know the facts and you could be causing yourself a giant headache.
If this is a good employee who deserves a promotion, help her get a promotion. Train her, give her opportunities to build skills, talk her up. That's much more concrete help anyway.
Also - this is counterintuitive but, I had a manager once, whom I adored, who was very frank with me about ways in which the company sucked. This made me like them, in an "it's us against the man" sort of way, but did nothing for my morale at the company. In retrospect, I think having my manager being like "yeah we kinda do suck huh" was one of the reasons I left the company, which turned out to be a disastrous decision. While I enjoyed what I thought was honesty at the time, I would have been much better served by them helping me look on the bright side.
posted by fingersandtoes at 3:22 PM on September 11, 2022
If this is a good employee who deserves a promotion, help her get a promotion. Train her, give her opportunities to build skills, talk her up. That's much more concrete help anyway.
Also - this is counterintuitive but, I had a manager once, whom I adored, who was very frank with me about ways in which the company sucked. This made me like them, in an "it's us against the man" sort of way, but did nothing for my morale at the company. In retrospect, I think having my manager being like "yeah we kinda do suck huh" was one of the reasons I left the company, which turned out to be a disastrous decision. While I enjoyed what I thought was honesty at the time, I would have been much better served by them helping me look on the bright side.
posted by fingersandtoes at 3:22 PM on September 11, 2022
Best answer: In the employee's place, I think I'd rather get a lay of the land: what promotions are available or what do I need to do to make them available to me. And if this I was in a dead end position, I'd want to know that too (ideally with a side of "I'll be a reference if you need it.")
I'd also want to know what changed,but you may not be able to answer that.
I may be an outlier, but if you had this meeting and told me you "understood" my feelings without giving me the lay of the land, I'd find that a waste of my time. They've made it clear they want to progress their career, thought they had a path that is not available to them, and now that path no longer exists (or never did). Whether the company misled them or they just were mistaken, an apology or empathetic language without a new plan seems like you just want to soothe my feelings so I'll get back to work. Which is not what you want, although it may be what your boss wants.
Based on your description of your earlier attempt to help another employee, I'm inclined to believe your workplace is at least a bit toxic and give the employee the benefit of the doubt vs the company. Which means that I'm not sure that being forthright with this person would work out well for you, career wise. So your best judgement on what kind of risk you can take. If it is true, that you think being truthful would be bad, then that may not be a place you want to be long term, so I'd make what moves I could to leave. And in the mean time I'd be sure to not mislead anyone working under me.
posted by ghost phoneme at 4:16 PM on September 11, 2022 [1 favorite]
I'd also want to know what changed,but you may not be able to answer that.
I may be an outlier, but if you had this meeting and told me you "understood" my feelings without giving me the lay of the land, I'd find that a waste of my time. They've made it clear they want to progress their career, thought they had a path that is not available to them, and now that path no longer exists (or never did). Whether the company misled them or they just were mistaken, an apology or empathetic language without a new plan seems like you just want to soothe my feelings so I'll get back to work. Which is not what you want, although it may be what your boss wants.
Based on your description of your earlier attempt to help another employee, I'm inclined to believe your workplace is at least a bit toxic and give the employee the benefit of the doubt vs the company. Which means that I'm not sure that being forthright with this person would work out well for you, career wise. So your best judgement on what kind of risk you can take. If it is true, that you think being truthful would be bad, then that may not be a place you want to be long term, so I'd make what moves I could to leave. And in the mean time I'd be sure to not mislead anyone working under me.
posted by ghost phoneme at 4:16 PM on September 11, 2022 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
Not telling them seems like it's more likely to keep them frustrated.
posted by sagc at 9:22 AM on September 11, 2022 [7 favorites]