Do you know people w/medical probelms because of flip flops/no shoes?
August 30, 2022 3:50 PM Subscribe
"What are the negatives of flat feet?" That is the heading for the list of issues caused by flat feet.
Unless the footwear don't fit right or are defective, I don't hear from or about people who have flat feet and/or wear flip flops.
"Some issues caused by flat feet include:"
"Inflammation of soft tissue.
"Foot, arch, and leg fatigue."
"Heel, foot, and ankle pain."
"Knee, hip, and lower back pain."
"Rolled-in ankles."
"Abnormal walking patterns."
"Shin splints."
"Bunions."
https://short-fact.com/is-it-bad-to-be-born-with-flat-feet/
I mean some people are born with flat feet and some arched feet. And a lot of people (in poor countries) wear no shoes all their lives.
Unless the footwear don't fit right or are defective, I don't hear from or about people who have flat feet and/or wear flip flops.
"Some issues caused by flat feet include:"
"Inflammation of soft tissue.
"Foot, arch, and leg fatigue."
"Heel, foot, and ankle pain."
"Knee, hip, and lower back pain."
"Rolled-in ankles."
"Abnormal walking patterns."
"Shin splints."
"Bunions."
https://short-fact.com/is-it-bad-to-be-born-with-flat-feet/
I mean some people are born with flat feet and some arched feet. And a lot of people (in poor countries) wear no shoes all their lives.
A few years back I looked into this for a friend who had flat feet. Most armies wouldn't take people with flat feet in case they couldn't march properly. Now they will. Every source I could find said that there are no known problems caused by this condition, and - like so many things in life - it was believed to be a problem just because it seemed as though it should be.
posted by AugustusCrunch at 4:00 PM on August 30, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by AugustusCrunch at 4:00 PM on August 30, 2022 [2 favorites]
I have plantar fasciitis, which, when it was originally diagnosed, was attributed to wearing flip flops. I’ve since mostly stopped wearing them, with a concurrent improvement in my PF pain, but when I do wear them, or walk without shoes for a while, I feel it.
There’s some controversy about this, which someone who’s not currently on their phone will probably point out.
posted by kevinbelt at 4:27 PM on August 30, 2022 [2 favorites]
There’s some controversy about this, which someone who’s not currently on their phone will probably point out.
posted by kevinbelt at 4:27 PM on August 30, 2022 [2 favorites]
I went to PT for Achilles’ tendon pain that turned out to be from my arches flattening and my ankles rolling in, now I do exercises and wear (even more) supportive shoes. I had high arches and narrow feet as a kid and they started flattening out noticeably when I started walking more. I’m sure some folks have flat feet and it’s not a problem, but it is a thing for other folks.
posted by momus_window at 4:38 PM on August 30, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by momus_window at 4:38 PM on August 30, 2022 [1 favorite]
My feet are so flat that they go smock smock smock barefoot on a smooth floor. I'm 53, overweight, but with none of the problems listed.
(yet)
posted by scruss at 4:47 PM on August 30, 2022 [5 favorites]
(yet)
posted by scruss at 4:47 PM on August 30, 2022 [5 favorites]
I'm not sure what you're asking.
Are you conflating lack of natural or high arches with going barefoot? Those things have nothing to do with one another.
The link you provide asks for a FLASH install, an app that's been dead for years, so I have no idea what's behind it.
The idea that not wearing shoes causes bunions, planter fasciitis, or any other common foot malady is absurd. Humans are born with feet that are wider in the toe than the heel. Modern shoe design is the opposite. People who live lives in places where they don't desire, need, or can't afford modern shoes have substantially healthier feet as a populace.
The reason we're seeing an increase in foot issues is *because* of the shoe industry, not despite it.
Buy shoes that are foot-shaped, not shoe-shaped, and eliminate these issues.
I realize it's only anecdotal, but I am a 54 year old male who wore Nike and Converse and other popular brands for the first 46 years of my life. I developed PF at 39 and wore custom orthotics for 7 years and things did not get better (for the first 6 years, walking was tolerable).
Only after it became unbearable did I met a foot expert who explained to me that arch support and orthotics act as a crutch that weakens feet — because they come to rely on that support and therefore are not strengthened by walking/exercising — did I ditch the orthotics and move to COMPLETELY flat shoes with wide toe boxes (foot-shaped), which allowed my feet to gain strength and work as nature intended. I now regularly walk 10 to 15 miles a day (and cycle 250km a week) without pain or discomfort of any type.
Since throwing out my custom orthotics and switching to barefoot / minimalist shoes, I went from a size 8 to a 9.5. Nike, Converse, Adidas, etc, are the worst things you can do for you feet. Let your feet be as "flat" and natural as they can and they will only become stronger.
posted by dobbs at 5:05 PM on August 30, 2022 [6 favorites]
Are you conflating lack of natural or high arches with going barefoot? Those things have nothing to do with one another.
The link you provide asks for a FLASH install, an app that's been dead for years, so I have no idea what's behind it.
The idea that not wearing shoes causes bunions, planter fasciitis, or any other common foot malady is absurd. Humans are born with feet that are wider in the toe than the heel. Modern shoe design is the opposite. People who live lives in places where they don't desire, need, or can't afford modern shoes have substantially healthier feet as a populace.
The reason we're seeing an increase in foot issues is *because* of the shoe industry, not despite it.
Buy shoes that are foot-shaped, not shoe-shaped, and eliminate these issues.
I realize it's only anecdotal, but I am a 54 year old male who wore Nike and Converse and other popular brands for the first 46 years of my life. I developed PF at 39 and wore custom orthotics for 7 years and things did not get better (for the first 6 years, walking was tolerable).
Only after it became unbearable did I met a foot expert who explained to me that arch support and orthotics act as a crutch that weakens feet — because they come to rely on that support and therefore are not strengthened by walking/exercising — did I ditch the orthotics and move to COMPLETELY flat shoes with wide toe boxes (foot-shaped), which allowed my feet to gain strength and work as nature intended. I now regularly walk 10 to 15 miles a day (and cycle 250km a week) without pain or discomfort of any type.
Since throwing out my custom orthotics and switching to barefoot / minimalist shoes, I went from a size 8 to a 9.5. Nike, Converse, Adidas, etc, are the worst things you can do for you feet. Let your feet be as "flat" and natural as they can and they will only become stronger.
posted by dobbs at 5:05 PM on August 30, 2022 [6 favorites]
I have high arches, I've always had high arches. I've gone barefoot or worn flip flops a lot, and I've almost never worn artificially pointy and/or high heeled lady-type shoes; my feet were fine for more than 65 years until one day, a very specific day around four years ago, during which I wore a pair of "natural" shoes with no arch support whatsoever. My right heel started hurting, I kept checking the shoe to see if there was something in it, nope. That fateful day with shoes I never wore again was the beginning of a year of plantar fasciitis. Even now if I wear a certain pair of sandals that do have arches but are perhaps a bit too flat somehow I feel it in my heel after a few hours. I rarely go barefoot any more, even in my house. I think everyone's feet are different, what works for some would not work for others. Those flat "natural" shoes definitely do not work for me, and yes I frequently walk several miles a day, even at my ripe old age, in my well constructed sneakers .
posted by mareli at 5:20 PM on August 30, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by mareli at 5:20 PM on August 30, 2022 [5 favorites]
So, I wear orthotics. I have since I was a kid. My flaw is both genetic and based on my activities; I have an accessory navicular bone in both feet. Then I ice skated for four years. Result: foot destruction! Very flat feet with strong overpronation. It would require surgery to correct; simply toughing it out without shoes (or with unsupportive footwear) is never going to work for me (it results in cascading pain, starting with the feet, working up to the knees, then the hips, then hey my whole body hurts!). No amount of trying to make my feet stronger will work. What does work is comfortable shoes that are shaped like my actual feet, with plenty of support.
What would have been best, to never ice skate or to listen to the pain my feet felt when I did, isn’t a thing I can do now. I was ten. I didn’t know that the pain I felt was abnormal. If I had listened, maybe I could wear those snazzy barefoot-equivalent shoes now; but that’s not the life I lived. So, nope.
Really what this tells you though is that people with crappy feet might have a hard time if they abuse their feet with certain sports (ice skating, soccer, some riding sports with stiff boots). Is being a soldier one such “sport?” I have no idea. But I can’t imagine that every soldier was historically provided with good footwear and an appropriate training regimen.
posted by nat at 6:05 PM on August 30, 2022 [3 favorites]
What would have been best, to never ice skate or to listen to the pain my feet felt when I did, isn’t a thing I can do now. I was ten. I didn’t know that the pain I felt was abnormal. If I had listened, maybe I could wear those snazzy barefoot-equivalent shoes now; but that’s not the life I lived. So, nope.
Really what this tells you though is that people with crappy feet might have a hard time if they abuse their feet with certain sports (ice skating, soccer, some riding sports with stiff boots). Is being a soldier one such “sport?” I have no idea. But I can’t imagine that every soldier was historically provided with good footwear and an appropriate training regimen.
posted by nat at 6:05 PM on August 30, 2022 [3 favorites]
Sorry if I came across as glib. I wasn't trying to suggest that you can just toss your orthotics or "modern" shoes and all your pain would instantly go away.
In my case, modern shoes had weakened my feet. Tossing them without putting in effort to strengthen my feet would have been the equivalent of removing a cast before a broken or fractured bone had properly healed.
I weaned myself off the need for "crutches" (orthotics) but doing daily exercises and minimizing time on my feet as much as I could while I strengthened them. I daily did these exercises at the guidance of the woman in those videos, who I met with in person and spoke to about my specific issues. At her recommendation, I read and followed the instructions in this book.
The whole thing was a process and the best thing I ever did for myself, health-wise.
Side-note: I also have "uncommonly high arches — considerably higher than 95% of the patients I see," according to the doctor who plastered me for orthotics.
posted by dobbs at 6:29 PM on August 30, 2022 [5 favorites]
In my case, modern shoes had weakened my feet. Tossing them without putting in effort to strengthen my feet would have been the equivalent of removing a cast before a broken or fractured bone had properly healed.
I weaned myself off the need for "crutches" (orthotics) but doing daily exercises and minimizing time on my feet as much as I could while I strengthened them. I daily did these exercises at the guidance of the woman in those videos, who I met with in person and spoke to about my specific issues. At her recommendation, I read and followed the instructions in this book.
The whole thing was a process and the best thing I ever did for myself, health-wise.
Side-note: I also have "uncommonly high arches — considerably higher than 95% of the patients I see," according to the doctor who plastered me for orthotics.
posted by dobbs at 6:29 PM on August 30, 2022 [5 favorites]
I also have feet so flat that they make suction noises on linoleum floors. I was a big believer in "bare feet and minimal shoes as much as possible" until I got PF. I did a lot of pilates, which has foot strengthening as a focus and includes some of the exercises in the videos Dobbs posted. It was great for many aspects of my health but did not resolve the PF. I did every stretch recommended by PT. Still no resolution. What resolved it was wearing slippers with some arch support (such as Gieswein boiled wool slippers) indoors at all times, and shoes with serious arch supports such as Birkenstocks anytime I was out of the house. I don't mean to sound like an advert for the German shoe industry here; they just happen to be the things that fit my feet, my needs and my style. I am not sure if my flat feet were the reason I got PF, but I suspect they didn't help. And it is interesting to me that Dobbs had great results from those feet-strengthening exercises, while they didn't do a damn thing for my PF issues.
posted by rednikki at 6:41 PM on August 30, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by rednikki at 6:41 PM on August 30, 2022 [1 favorite]
"Some issues caused by flat feet include:"
I'm not sure if this list is supposed to be an example of problems caused by flat feet/barefoot/flops, because the symptoms are so vague that they equally apply to people who have non-flat feet and are always clad in shoes.
For example, runners routinely complain about shin splints, and virtually all of them are wearing running shoes. Probably a majority of people over the age of 60 complain about knee, lower back, and foot pain from time to time.
posted by meowzilla at 7:51 PM on August 30, 2022
I'm not sure if this list is supposed to be an example of problems caused by flat feet/barefoot/flops, because the symptoms are so vague that they equally apply to people who have non-flat feet and are always clad in shoes.
For example, runners routinely complain about shin splints, and virtually all of them are wearing running shoes. Probably a majority of people over the age of 60 complain about knee, lower back, and foot pain from time to time.
posted by meowzilla at 7:51 PM on August 30, 2022
Anecdata to add: I have never worn high heels or tight shoes and I wear flip flops much of the summer, and though I have high arches, my one bout with plantar fasciitis didn’t correspond with that season. It probably had more to do with the weird things the sport of fencing does to my feet. I do have bunions but that’s more likely genetics.
Honestly what problems I have with my feet (I can think of a Morton’s neuroma offhand, and I currently have a black toenail growing out) seem to be more related to a cascade effect from accumulated stresses than any one thing. If I put my foot wrong, stumble, or otherwise tweak my foot, and I am heavier at the time or walking a lot or wearing unsupportive shoes, then sometimes I get chronic problems.
In other words, I’m providing an anti-answer to your question, and making things less clear, sorry about that.
posted by Peach at 4:14 AM on August 31, 2022
Honestly what problems I have with my feet (I can think of a Morton’s neuroma offhand, and I currently have a black toenail growing out) seem to be more related to a cascade effect from accumulated stresses than any one thing. If I put my foot wrong, stumble, or otherwise tweak my foot, and I am heavier at the time or walking a lot or wearing unsupportive shoes, then sometimes I get chronic problems.
In other words, I’m providing an anti-answer to your question, and making things less clear, sorry about that.
posted by Peach at 4:14 AM on August 31, 2022
I have flat feet (congenital).
When I wear flip flops, the Baker's cyst behind my right knee gets worse (I've had a number of injuries to that joint).
posted by Ms Vegetable at 8:02 AM on August 31, 2022
When I wear flip flops, the Baker's cyst behind my right knee gets worse (I've had a number of injuries to that joint).
posted by Ms Vegetable at 8:02 AM on August 31, 2022
I don't quite understand what you're asking. I have very, very flat feet (suction noises here too). In my 50+ years on this planet, I have worn all kinds of shoes, including flip flops, which I rather like. The only shoes I can't wear are super pointy women's heels because my feet are wide and those things are awful. I avoid shoes with aggressive arch support because they are uncomfortable. I have zero foot problems. Could you maybe clarify what you're asking?
posted by pleasant_confusion at 1:04 PM on August 31, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by pleasant_confusion at 1:04 PM on August 31, 2022 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Thank all so much!!
My question which I had to reduce a lot because it was more than 200? words. Anyway I was trying to see how many people out there experience or hear about these medical conditions simply because they have flat feet and/or they don't wear
The following paragraph from dobbs @5.05PM:
"Only after it became unbearable did I met a foot expert who explained to me that arch support and orthotics act as a crutch that weakens feet — because they come to rely on that support and therefore are not strengthened by walking/exercising — did I ditch the orthotics and move to COMPLETELY flat shoes with wide toe boxes (foot-shaped), which allowed my feet to gain strength and work as nature intended. I now regularly walk 10 to 15 miles a day (and cycle 250km a week) without pain or discomfort of any type."
I found the following after I posted:
https://www.webmd.com/fitness-exercise/understanding-plantar-fasciitis-basics
"You’re at greater risk of plantar fasciitis if you:
Are female
Are 40 to 60 years old
Are obese
Have flat feet or high arches (emphasis mine)
Have tight Achilles tendons, or “heel cords
Have an unusual walk or foot position
Often wear high-heeled shoes"
Spend many hours standing each day
Wear worn-out shoes with thin soles"
So, high arches or flat feet can cause PF? I'm even more confused. It doesn't explain how it can be both.
Did you all find the link I posted not usable, like dobbs did? I'm guesssing if you use desktop or laptop it's no problem?
posted by nfub at 2:20 PM on August 31, 2022
My question which I had to reduce a lot because it was more than 200? words. Anyway I was trying to see how many people out there experience or hear about these medical conditions simply because they have flat feet and/or they don't wear
The following paragraph from dobbs @5.05PM:
"Only after it became unbearable did I met a foot expert who explained to me that arch support and orthotics act as a crutch that weakens feet — because they come to rely on that support and therefore are not strengthened by walking/exercising — did I ditch the orthotics and move to COMPLETELY flat shoes with wide toe boxes (foot-shaped), which allowed my feet to gain strength and work as nature intended. I now regularly walk 10 to 15 miles a day (and cycle 250km a week) without pain or discomfort of any type."
I found the following after I posted:
https://www.webmd.com/fitness-exercise/understanding-plantar-fasciitis-basics
"You’re at greater risk of plantar fasciitis if you:
Are female
Are 40 to 60 years old
Are obese
Have flat feet or high arches (emphasis mine)
Have tight Achilles tendons, or “heel cords
Have an unusual walk or foot position
Often wear high-heeled shoes"
Spend many hours standing each day
Wear worn-out shoes with thin soles"
So, high arches or flat feet can cause PF? I'm even more confused. It doesn't explain how it can be both.
Did you all find the link I posted not usable, like dobbs did? I'm guesssing if you use desktop or laptop it's no problem?
posted by nfub at 2:20 PM on August 31, 2022
Mayo Clinic generally has a better website when it comes to online medical info. Their page on PF is here. From that page you can get to their pages on treatment and diagnosis as well; they specifically don’t recommend going without shoes for current PF sufferers.
But yes, Mayo also lists both flat feet and high arches as possible PF causes. Along with stating that the causes are poorly understood.
posted by nat at 12:06 AM on September 1, 2022
But yes, Mayo also lists both flat feet and high arches as possible PF causes. Along with stating that the causes are poorly understood.
posted by nat at 12:06 AM on September 1, 2022
Did you all find the link I posted not usable, like dobbs did? I'm guesssing if you use desktop or laptop it's no problem?
I'm on a laptop.
Most barefoot shoe companies have data pages on their site, which you may find useful. For instance: Vivobarefoot and Feelgrounds. Keep in mind of course that they're both trying to sell flat shoes.
You can also find many videos on youtube by searching for barefoot walking or barefoot running. For instance, here's one from Harvard.
posted by dobbs at 6:59 AM on September 1, 2022
I'm on a laptop.
Most barefoot shoe companies have data pages on their site, which you may find useful. For instance: Vivobarefoot and Feelgrounds. Keep in mind of course that they're both trying to sell flat shoes.
You can also find many videos on youtube by searching for barefoot walking or barefoot running. For instance, here's one from Harvard.
posted by dobbs at 6:59 AM on September 1, 2022
Response by poster: Thank you.
nat, I don't know what to make of it. If it's "poorly understood" by Mayo clinic and the like there is no hope for me trying to understand it.
dobbs, I only mentioned laptop desktops because many times I find when people say they can't access whatever site it seems when they are on a smartphone, (I don't know what kind) , not on laptop desktop. It looks like others whatever they are on they have no problem? Or I wonder if they read your report about the link and/or my question "Did you all find the link I posted not usable...?"
posted by nfub at 5:20 PM on September 1, 2022
nat, I don't know what to make of it. If it's "poorly understood" by Mayo clinic and the like there is no hope for me trying to understand it.
dobbs, I only mentioned laptop desktops because many times I find when people say they can't access whatever site it seems when they are on a smartphone, (I don't know what kind) , not on laptop desktop. It looks like others whatever they are on they have no problem? Or I wonder if they read your report about the link and/or my question "Did you all find the link I posted not usable...?"
posted by nfub at 5:20 PM on September 1, 2022
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posted by nfub at 3:53 PM on August 30, 2022