What are the pros and cons of wood windows, can I even get them?
August 21, 2022 12:44 PM Subscribe
We’re looking at replacing the windows in our 1980’s home in North Carolina. The current windows are wood, and the windows and indoor trim are stained wood which we’d like to keep. It seems like all windows are vinyl these days. Do we give up and just go with the vinyl?
We like the stained wood trim in our home and want to keep it. The includes crown molding and the windows. However, in recent research about window replacements it looks like everything is just vinyl. The outside of the house has the trim painted brown which kind of continues the wood “look” versus the white that’s more popular in the area.
Most of our windows are double hung. We’re replacing because they don’t all stay open well on their own, seem a bit drafty, and some of the trim has rotted and needs to be replaced.
Additional questions
1. It seems like there some sort of vinyl (alternative?) that has the fake wood grain on it. I’m not loving that option but do you have any personal experience with how it looks?
2. We don’t have a historical or “old” home, are wood windows just not done anymore?
3. Is it possible to change from double hung to casement windows? Do wood windows exist for casement windows?
4. A company rep we talked to about siding said they commonly installed vinyl windows inside the wood trim. This seems a bit strange cosmetically, but I’m open to hearing more insight on this.
(Always welcome for an area business if you happen to have one)
Open to hearing all other advice/experience you may have to offer. This is our first house and we’ve been living here almost a year.
We like the stained wood trim in our home and want to keep it. The includes crown molding and the windows. However, in recent research about window replacements it looks like everything is just vinyl. The outside of the house has the trim painted brown which kind of continues the wood “look” versus the white that’s more popular in the area.
Most of our windows are double hung. We’re replacing because they don’t all stay open well on their own, seem a bit drafty, and some of the trim has rotted and needs to be replaced.
Additional questions
1. It seems like there some sort of vinyl (alternative?) that has the fake wood grain on it. I’m not loving that option but do you have any personal experience with how it looks?
2. We don’t have a historical or “old” home, are wood windows just not done anymore?
3. Is it possible to change from double hung to casement windows? Do wood windows exist for casement windows?
4. A company rep we talked to about siding said they commonly installed vinyl windows inside the wood trim. This seems a bit strange cosmetically, but I’m open to hearing more insight on this.
(Always welcome for an area business if you happen to have one)
Open to hearing all other advice/experience you may have to offer. This is our first house and we’ve been living here almost a year.
Vinyl is incredibly toxic and fumes last for years. Vinyl burns so fast and puts out so much smoke, it would kill you if there was ever a fire. You could find a joiner, such this one, or talk to one of the five North Carolina woodworking schools about your project.
Alternatively, aluminium wood effect windows are usually covered with an epoxy coated real wood veneer.
posted by parmanparman at 1:06 PM on August 21, 2022
Alternatively, aluminium wood effect windows are usually covered with an epoxy coated real wood veneer.
posted by parmanparman at 1:06 PM on August 21, 2022
Wood windows are absolutely available, both wood inside and out and wood inside with fiberglass or other more durable materials on the outside. The advantage of vinyl is that it is cheap. Companies like FiberTec or ThermoTech make good fiberglass/wood windows, which would be what I'd opt for if I wanted wood inside, but they are not cheap. There are many companies that will make you wood/wood windows as well. They probably aren't going to be sold in your local big box store or via most local contractors; you would probably have to order directly from the manufacturer or seek out a local contractor who works with more expensive windows.
To answer your specific questions, wood windows are less common these days because they are significantly more expensive than vinyl, they require maintenance and they will wear faster on the outside than good quality fiberglass or aluminum-clad windows.
Of course you can get wood casement windows. You can also get wood inside tilt and turn windows, if you prefer the European style.
Many people do install vinyl windows with wood trim around them. I don't think it's the most aesthetically pleasing option, but it is a cheap way to still have some wood in the picture.
posted by ssg at 1:07 PM on August 21, 2022 [1 favorite]
To answer your specific questions, wood windows are less common these days because they are significantly more expensive than vinyl, they require maintenance and they will wear faster on the outside than good quality fiberglass or aluminum-clad windows.
Of course you can get wood casement windows. You can also get wood inside tilt and turn windows, if you prefer the European style.
Many people do install vinyl windows with wood trim around them. I don't think it's the most aesthetically pleasing option, but it is a cheap way to still have some wood in the picture.
posted by ssg at 1:07 PM on August 21, 2022 [1 favorite]
Best answer: I urge you to search your local area for folks who do "window restoration" or "window restoration and repair." Those are the people who can fix what you've got and/or replace it with beautiful wood windows.
We have a house with loads of old wood windows of varying sizes and shapes, and most of them were in some state of disrepair: double-hung windows that didn't open, or opened but wouldn't stay open; a window whose frame was rotting; a window in a dangerous second-floor area where we needed something to be super secure so kids wouldn't fall out; and many more idiosyncrasies including draftiness.
We found the window restoration and repair company in our area, waited a good long time for an appointment, and the guy was amazing. He looked at everything, told us what could be repaired (most of it), what needed to be replaced (one that was just beyond fixing), what were some options for ones we wanted to replace because of the way they looked. Then we had to wait a good long time for our repair date, but this company, at least, scheduled things so that when it was your date, a massive crew arrived and did all the work in one day. (Which was good because we don't live in an area where it would be okay for us to just, you know, have open spaces instead of windows.)
We LOVED what they did. It was not cheap. But the windows are great, they're all still wood (including the new one they installed). Later, we had them do some more custom work for us, and it was equally good. I love having all-wood windows and I urge you to stick with yours if at all possible. (These guys also fixed our metal casement windows, and would have worked on our wood casement windows except they're all in good working order right now.)
posted by BlahLaLa at 2:48 PM on August 21, 2022 [10 favorites]
We have a house with loads of old wood windows of varying sizes and shapes, and most of them were in some state of disrepair: double-hung windows that didn't open, or opened but wouldn't stay open; a window whose frame was rotting; a window in a dangerous second-floor area where we needed something to be super secure so kids wouldn't fall out; and many more idiosyncrasies including draftiness.
We found the window restoration and repair company in our area, waited a good long time for an appointment, and the guy was amazing. He looked at everything, told us what could be repaired (most of it), what needed to be replaced (one that was just beyond fixing), what were some options for ones we wanted to replace because of the way they looked. Then we had to wait a good long time for our repair date, but this company, at least, scheduled things so that when it was your date, a massive crew arrived and did all the work in one day. (Which was good because we don't live in an area where it would be okay for us to just, you know, have open spaces instead of windows.)
We LOVED what they did. It was not cheap. But the windows are great, they're all still wood (including the new one they installed). Later, we had them do some more custom work for us, and it was equally good. I love having all-wood windows and I urge you to stick with yours if at all possible. (These guys also fixed our metal casement windows, and would have worked on our wood casement windows except they're all in good working order right now.)
posted by BlahLaLa at 2:48 PM on August 21, 2022 [10 favorites]
Best answer: 1. It seems like there some sort of vinyl (alternative?) that has the fake wood grain on it. I’m not loving that option but do you have any personal experience with how it looks?
I live in an 80's house with some stained wood trim too. I love the stained wood trim, but it does make it more difficult to 1) choose paint colors, and 2) buy windows. We actually do have some vinyl windows with the brown "wood grain" look. Up close it wouldn't fool anyone into thinking it's wood, but I think it looks better than wood trim around white vinyl windows would've looked.
These windows were already on the house when we bought it. I don't know what brand they are, or if they were the top-of-the-line option for that sort of thing or not.
posted by wondermouse at 2:52 PM on August 21, 2022
I live in an 80's house with some stained wood trim too. I love the stained wood trim, but it does make it more difficult to 1) choose paint colors, and 2) buy windows. We actually do have some vinyl windows with the brown "wood grain" look. Up close it wouldn't fool anyone into thinking it's wood, but I think it looks better than wood trim around white vinyl windows would've looked.
These windows were already on the house when we bought it. I don't know what brand they are, or if they were the top-of-the-line option for that sort of thing or not.
posted by wondermouse at 2:52 PM on August 21, 2022
I just remembered that when we first bought the house, I thought the wood look vinyl windows were kind of funny, and it bugged me a little that they aren't exactly the same color as the actual wood in that room. At any rate, over time they've blended into the scenery and I think they're okay.
posted by wondermouse at 3:10 PM on August 21, 2022
posted by wondermouse at 3:10 PM on August 21, 2022
Try Kolbe, they make great, secure, windows of all kinds.
Here is their site. I saw these in a middle class house across the street a while back. They open three ways, very hard to break in through these.
posted by Oyéah at 3:26 PM on August 21, 2022
Here is their site. I saw these in a middle class house across the street a while back. They open three ways, very hard to break in through these.
posted by Oyéah at 3:26 PM on August 21, 2022
Best answer: Seconding BlahLaLa. We have a historic house with original wood windows (much older than yours if your house is not old), and we have a local craftsperson who has restored and repaired them to as good as new, at a much lower cost than even new vinyl windows, let alone new wood windows. It's possible yours do truly need to be replaced, but I think it's worth consulting with a restoration expert first.
posted by primethyme at 3:36 PM on August 21, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by primethyme at 3:36 PM on August 21, 2022 [1 favorite]
I forgot to say I prefer wood windows to vinyl or metal. They are less conductive of sound, heat, or cold.
posted by Oyéah at 4:13 PM on August 21, 2022
posted by Oyéah at 4:13 PM on August 21, 2022
I believe Kolbe, Anderson, Pella, and Trim line all make full wood windows and aluminum clad wood windows, in both a small amount of stock sizes and a ton of custom sizes. I would first try to get yours repaired or replaced.
posted by sepviva at 6:53 PM on August 21, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by sepviva at 6:53 PM on August 21, 2022 [2 favorites]
We replaced some of our pretty/shitty vintage windows with modern vinyl windows.
The interior wood frames were kept completely intact. They dismantled and re-installed the exterior frames, and the exterior sills were re-cladded in metal because: Canada. It was decent and affordable.
My advice is Vinyl Windows from a decent installer.
posted by ovvl at 7:24 PM on August 21, 2022
The interior wood frames were kept completely intact. They dismantled and re-installed the exterior frames, and the exterior sills were re-cladded in metal because: Canada. It was decent and affordable.
My advice is Vinyl Windows from a decent installer.
posted by ovvl at 7:24 PM on August 21, 2022
I don't know if aluminium windows are available where you are, but these might be a better alternative - the frames are very slim so they're less obtrusive, are very robust and won't shrink or warp in any way.
Vinyl windows are cheap for a reason and they will tend to warp from the sun if it's hot. The frames are quite large in section, so they're very obvious and won't fit in well with your timber.
I agree with the suggestions to find someone local to look at restoring the windows first, if you want to keep the current appearance. It will almost certainly be less expensive and create less disruption to do this. The disadvantage would be if you want to change the size or style of any existing windows - this would obviously necessitate new frames. A mix of restoring what you want to keep the same and new wood windows for those you want to change may end up being the best solution all round.
posted by dg at 8:16 PM on August 21, 2022
Vinyl windows are cheap for a reason and they will tend to warp from the sun if it's hot. The frames are quite large in section, so they're very obvious and won't fit in well with your timber.
I agree with the suggestions to find someone local to look at restoring the windows first, if you want to keep the current appearance. It will almost certainly be less expensive and create less disruption to do this. The disadvantage would be if you want to change the size or style of any existing windows - this would obviously necessitate new frames. A mix of restoring what you want to keep the same and new wood windows for those you want to change may end up being the best solution all round.
posted by dg at 8:16 PM on August 21, 2022
Sure, look into someone who might restore bits of those windows. If they're not staying open, you might just need to replace sash cords or weights, and small amounts of rotting can be easily replaced.
We had to replace or repair many wood windows at our house. The *cheapest* restoring option was $8,000 for them to remove the windows, remove the glass, remove the paint, and then we would be on our own to reglaze them, repaint and reinstall them. That seemed absolutely insane. Replacing them with vinyl was $3,000. We chose that option. We retained the interior and exterior trim.
I had resisted replacing them for years because the math *never* works out on energy saving from installing new windows. But with the new vinyl windows our house is less drafty, quieter, and has far less heat gain from the direct sun.
If you need them to match better visually, I think you can easily get vinyl windows in white, black, or putty. Custom colors are possible but take more lead time.
My friend is in the middle of a complete remodel, and his contractor said that vinyl is so expensive right now that wood clad (wood on the inside, fiberglass clad wood on the outside) windows are now only 30% more expensive than vinyl, instead of the usual 300%, so he upgraded to wood clad. My window guy says that's hogwash. So YMMV.
Vinyl windows do not warp.
posted by MonsieurBon at 10:16 PM on August 21, 2022
We had to replace or repair many wood windows at our house. The *cheapest* restoring option was $8,000 for them to remove the windows, remove the glass, remove the paint, and then we would be on our own to reglaze them, repaint and reinstall them. That seemed absolutely insane. Replacing them with vinyl was $3,000. We chose that option. We retained the interior and exterior trim.
I had resisted replacing them for years because the math *never* works out on energy saving from installing new windows. But with the new vinyl windows our house is less drafty, quieter, and has far less heat gain from the direct sun.
If you need them to match better visually, I think you can easily get vinyl windows in white, black, or putty. Custom colors are possible but take more lead time.
My friend is in the middle of a complete remodel, and his contractor said that vinyl is so expensive right now that wood clad (wood on the inside, fiberglass clad wood on the outside) windows are now only 30% more expensive than vinyl, instead of the usual 300%, so he upgraded to wood clad. My window guy says that's hogwash. So YMMV.
Vinyl windows do not warp.
posted by MonsieurBon at 10:16 PM on August 21, 2022
Go to Fitch. They have half the store reserved for window people and you can talk to them and get estimates. We did that and were happy with the outcome.
posted by melodykramer at 11:13 PM on August 21, 2022
posted by melodykramer at 11:13 PM on August 21, 2022
Best answer: I don't know if aluminium windows are available where you are, but these might be a better alternative
Aluminum windows are the worst kind of windows. They transfer heat and cold though like nothing, so if you live in anything other than a temperate climate don't get them.
White vinyl is the most common because it's the cheapest, but now they also make black vinyl and there are fiberglass options that look like wood, but have none of the downsides.
Wood windows still exist, but think $1200+ per new window vs $500 for the cost of window plus installation for white vinyl. That's why lots of people choose white vinyl.
Existing wood windows are actually pretty great if you can replace the glass with modern glass and are willing to do the maintenance they require.
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:42 AM on August 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
Aluminum windows are the worst kind of windows. They transfer heat and cold though like nothing, so if you live in anything other than a temperate climate don't get them.
White vinyl is the most common because it's the cheapest, but now they also make black vinyl and there are fiberglass options that look like wood, but have none of the downsides.
Wood windows still exist, but think $1200+ per new window vs $500 for the cost of window plus installation for white vinyl. That's why lots of people choose white vinyl.
Existing wood windows are actually pretty great if you can replace the glass with modern glass and are willing to do the maintenance they require.
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:42 AM on August 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
This is in the UK, but as an example we were looking at these efficient windows with wooden frames. We didn't get as far as investigating exactly how high the price would be.
Some of our current windows are the vinyl ones with the wood-effect "wrap". On the one hand I hate them because I'm a modernist "truth to materials" type and these feel like a lie to me. On the other hand I can't deny they look less jarring and bright than white plastic frames would be. If I was going to get new vinyl windows I'd see what other colours I could have other than white - grey, moss green, etc.
posted by fabius at 5:16 AM on August 23, 2022
Some of our current windows are the vinyl ones with the wood-effect "wrap". On the one hand I hate them because I'm a modernist "truth to materials" type and these feel like a lie to me. On the other hand I can't deny they look less jarring and bright than white plastic frames would be. If I was going to get new vinyl windows I'd see what other colours I could have other than white - grey, moss green, etc.
posted by fabius at 5:16 AM on August 23, 2022
Response by poster: All of these comments have been extremely helpful in understanding the window market. I’ll update after we get some more information locally but again, I appreciate the information, especially when it comes to restoration.
posted by raccoon409 at 7:25 AM on August 25, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by raccoon409 at 7:25 AM on August 25, 2022 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: As an update, updating any windows is out of our budget right now, though we will be updating our backdoor and many of the comments helped us with that. In the end we ended up with a composite, which is fine, though not my favorite.
I really wanted Fitch Lumber to be the answer to my questions and it seemed like it should have been. Unfortunately I had a horrendous customer service experience there, to an almost comic level. I’m not sure if it was sexism, or because they mostly sell to contractors, but I won’t be giving them our business.
And I will continue looking into restoration for the windows. Thank you everyone!
posted by raccoon409 at 8:10 AM on December 2, 2022 [1 favorite]
I really wanted Fitch Lumber to be the answer to my questions and it seemed like it should have been. Unfortunately I had a horrendous customer service experience there, to an almost comic level. I’m not sure if it was sexism, or because they mostly sell to contractors, but I won’t be giving them our business.
And I will continue looking into restoration for the windows. Thank you everyone!
posted by raccoon409 at 8:10 AM on December 2, 2022 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by cooker girl at 12:59 PM on August 21, 2022 [1 favorite]