My best friend stalked his roommate not sure if I should be his friend?

August 10, 2022 8:22 AM

My best guy friend who is in his late thirties has been stalking his twenty-something year old female roommate who he was friends with. I am not sure if I should continue being friends with him as his mental health is very bad right now.

My friend has been stalking his female roommate for months and has been giving her unwanted hugs and handshakes and she looked very uncomfortable. He has a hard time finding a girlfriend for several reasons and I have a feeling his intent was sexual as well which creeped me out. I am not sure if I should give him another chance to be friends if he seeks therapy and help and realise what he has done is wrong. But I feel so creeped out by the situation and I feel so sorry for the female friend that had to experience this. His mental health is quite bad as well right now and he is apparently dangerous and threatening his other roommates. He has refused to seek therapy and did not complete his hospitalised stay. I feel so drained out but I also feel like a bad friend for wanting to cut ties. I just feel so weirded out with him touching her and following her around and talking about her non-stop. It's very scary to me but sad at the same time that he has trouble finding a partner.

Should I cut all ties with him for my safety and mental well being? Should I give him a chance in the future? I think my gut is telling me to cut all ties for good just to be on the safe side but it would be good to have different opinions on this.

posted by anonymous to Human Relations (24 answers total)

why would you want to be friends with an unhinged creep?

Tell him that what he's doing is wrong, though, before you cut ties.

Don't worry about the future. It's unlikely he'll asking you for a "chance" and if he does you can cross the bridge when you come to it.
posted by fingersandtoes at 8:30 AM on August 10, 2022 [16 favorites]

Your gut is right. If, years from now, he turns out to have had some kind of treatable problem and comes to you and says that he regrets his past actions and has obtained treatment, you can see how you feel then.

Is there any help that you can offer the roommate? This doesn't just sound stressful to her, it sounds dangerous. Does she have a strong social support network? If there are other roommates, how are they responding? This sounds like a situation where he needs to be evicted and a safety plan made. You can't just sweep in and take over and problem-solve, but you could make a few enquiries if you have any significant connection to any of these people. You could express to the other roommates that you see what is going on and that it is in fact troubling and unsafe - sometimes people don't really recognize what is going on around them until someone else points it out.

IME, it is really difficult to parse out the interactions between "this person is in some way intrinsically a creep", "this person's life circumstances are sad" and "this person has a mental health issue which makes them likely to become obsessive and lowers their impulse control". Sometimes fixing the obsessive/impulse part fixes the rest; sometimes the rest is what is driving the obsessive part. The thing is, you can't try to parse that out on your own - you have to look at what the guy is doing and how it is affecting others.
posted by Frowner at 8:31 AM on August 10, 2022 [28 favorites]

Cut ties, I've found this kind of thing doesn't come with happy character growth arcs.
posted by johngoren at 8:32 AM on August 10, 2022 [13 favorites]

I think he should know why his behaviour is so unacceptable, but I don't think you should do this by yourself. Do you know all his roommates well enough to see if they'd be willing to join you in a sort-of intervention, where you all get together and confront him? Then you can let him know that what he's doing is not okay, that he needs to get some help, and that until he does, you can't be friends with him. In that way, it's not just individuals trying to deal with him, and the female roommate will know that other people have her back.
posted by essexjan at 8:34 AM on August 10, 2022 [5 favorites]

One thing: If you are his best friend and you have ties to his family and this seems to be escalating into delusions, violence, really obviously non-standard behavior, etc, you can make sure his family is aware. They would want to know if it seems like he is moving toward violence or paranoid delusions and they will probably have more capacity to deal with it than a group of casual roommates.
posted by Frowner at 8:36 AM on August 10, 2022 [33 favorites]

No, you shouldn't stay friends. It's not safe for you and it's also a message to other people that you are not a safe friend to have because you consort with people you know to behave in unacceptable ways.

Depending on how concerned you are for your own safety, when you part ways you could do it with a "I'm concerned about you, I hope you commit to getting help, here are some resources for you" message. But I don't think we can judge from here whether that would be either an appropriate or safe thing for you to do. Likewise, if you can do it safely for both of you, I would consider whether you can offer the roommate any help or resources in getting out of the situation she's in.

I would not plan to give him a chance in the future now. Sure, if he comes back to you at some point down the road and has demonstrably changed, spent time (like, many months or years) consistently in therapy, on meds, or whatever that will look like for him, you could consider your own mental state and resources at that time and decide how you feel about that. But I think you can leave that decision to future you and for now just assume this is a door you're shutting permanently. He's mentally ill and not getting treated properly, and that's sad and scary, but that doesn't give him a pass for behavior that scares, harms, or endangers other people, and you don't have to stand by him while he does that.
posted by Stacey at 8:55 AM on August 10, 2022 [8 favorites]

Trust your gut. Some people are actually worth the effort. But, also, the world is full of great people who don't require effort. (If you feel like spending time on volunteer community service, tell him about it. But, it's not your job.)
posted by eotvos at 8:58 AM on August 10, 2022

You could stay in the "friendship", but not as his friend-- as a witness, for the roommate's safety.

Get him out of his house for hangouts as much as you can so he's not there to harass his roommate.

When you hang out at his place, keep him away from the roommate as much as you can, and do your best to be present when he interacts with her. Say "hey man, stop that" when he starts being creepy at her or about her, or shows you information he's gained from stalking her.

He may then cut ties with you. But if your presence gives him less freedom to be creepy, that's a win for you and for the roommate.
posted by Pallas Athena at 9:11 AM on August 10, 2022 [3 favorites]

I guess I'm really stuck on the idea that this guy is your best friend... but you can't seem to help him or impress upon him in anyway that his behavior is far, far outside the boundary of normal, socially acceptable behavior and is likely illegal.

Further, I feel so bad for the roommate who is being harassed and hugged and touched without wanting that in front of others who notice their discomfort and say nothing. This is how people who violate social boundaries get away with it again and again. We look to our village, our family, our cohort for how to behave and right now the cohort is saying, "We'll all be uncomfortable but you will need to be the most uncomfortable because we can't step over the boundary that is calling out unacceptable behavior in a male!" Women know but all of us know that the reason we tolerate this is because we are afraid of the tinder box that is a man losing his sense of power and control. We all know as a culture that this is when people get dangerous and others are in danger.

Having said that, if you truly think that your best friend is dangerous, I'd like to think there's something you could do about that. And, yeah, doing anything about that is likely going to mean that they are definitely not your friend anymore. The best you can hope for is an approach of compassion: "Hey, buddy, I see that you are hurting and having a hard time... what is going on with you and how can I help?" But that also should come with a boundary, "I feel strongly that [roommate] is not open to a relationship with you beyond that of platonic roommates, what needs to change in this situation so that they are safe and you are safe?"

And if your best friend has weapons or access to weapons, I think you need to take more action than you are but I don't really know the best course here. I think the idea of reaching out to his family, if you are able to, is a good idea. Like, I'm glad you asked this question and there are no great answers here but it just feels like there's something else that could be done, should be done. At a minimum, talking to the roommate and getting their take on the situation and their feelings of concern. If they are concerned for their own safety, someone needs to take steps to help them out of that situation.

I'm sorry this is happening to you. It's a real crappy situation.
posted by amanda at 9:12 AM on August 10, 2022 [22 favorites]

This sounds a lot like the only friend I've ever cut ties with. Before I did that I spent a huge amount of time and energy trying to help and trying to be supportive without enabling and enduring a bunch of vitriol whenever I tried to gently point out that he's being creepy, and in retrospect it was a huge waste of time, and wasn't really any benefit to anyone: him, me, or the women he was a creep towards.
posted by aubilenon at 9:12 AM on August 10, 2022 [3 favorites]

in retrospect it was a huge waste of time, and wasn't really any benefit to anyone: him, me, or the women he was a creep towards

Hm. I don't know. I think if there's even a hitch in the step of these guys, it's of value. I get that it doesn't seem worth it if you see the same behavior again and again but I have to think there is value in establishing a baseline. So many people never even bother and men are written off very quickly as being untrainable, unredeemable, unreachable. So, I just want to say, the fact that you tried is admirable and likely did do some good even if it didn't fix the issue.

ETA: And I think that is the issue here with OP. Is it worth it to try something? I think yes even if ultimately you have to walk away from the whole situation.
posted by amanda at 9:22 AM on August 10, 2022 [1 favorite]

He has serious mental problems that are above your ability to help with. He did not even complete his hospitalised stay. The issue is not should you remain friends. In what respect? The issue is should you try to help him and/or his roommates? I also think you are leaving someone out of the risk category. YOU. If you cut all ties with this person and do it in a large way, they may turn on you too.

I would cut ties by slowly fading away. I have a delusional former employee that has been hospitalised several times against their will. Every time they get out they stalk me on the internet. This is not just a case of him being a bad friend who does not call you. This is a seriously mentally ill person that is probably unpredictable. If they are forced to move their focus from their female roommate, they could move it to you.

I would make sure the roommates are aware of the situation. (Of course they are). I would let the roommates know that you offered to get him help, but now you are stepping away from the situation. Whatever that means to them, they should take steps to prepare. Then, stop contacting this person. If they contact you, keep it short and direct.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 9:33 AM on August 10, 2022 [2 favorites]

I would be concerned about safety here not friendship. There are plenty of documentaries about nice people that no one would have expected could do such a thing but maybe seemed off or like they were going through something. The road to hell is paved with good intentions and IF he is stalking and inappropriately touching a woman he lives with I would get a restraining order and an eviction proceeding as quickly as possible.
posted by VyanSelei at 9:35 AM on August 10, 2022 [3 favorites]

I think the only moral obligation you have here is to the roommate who is being stalked and may be in danger of violent behavior (including but not limited to rape).

Whatever energy you have for this situation, I'd urge you to focus it on getting the targeted party to safety.
posted by basalganglia at 9:37 AM on August 10, 2022 [22 favorites]

Are there things your friend is doing that his roommate isn’t aware of (e.g., recording her, talking to you/others about her)? If so, you should tell her directly. Women are socialized to laugh off things that make us uncomfortable and to give the benefit of the doubt (“he didn’t mean that in a creepy way, he’s just socially awkward”). She deserves to have the benefit of your insight and information so she can take steps to keep herself safe.

Once that’s done—and only then—ask yourself which of the following statements you’d like to be true of yourself:

A) “I keep people in my life who engage in scary, inappropriate, and creepy behavior toward women.”

B) “I don’t associate with people who engage in scary, inappropriate, and creepy behavior toward women.”
posted by theotherdurassister at 9:45 AM on August 10, 2022 [17 favorites]

Well, there's "being a friend" like hanging out with him and implicitly condoning his behavior by providing no pushback or commentary, and then there's "being a friend" like pushing hard to talk him into getting help, returning to the hospital program, and trying to get his family to help you intervene, because you care about him as a person and do not want him to die or go to jail (and then die) even if you never socialize with him again.

But also, this: It's very scary to me but sad at the same time that he has trouble finding a partner. Wow, no. This has absolutely zero to do with finding a partner, this is not how a partner is obtained, this is not a legitimate way to behave when someone is not interested with you, it is not a good time to start dating when you are in what appears to be psychotic freefall. It is sad and scary that some woman is being tormented, harassed, and assaulted while you all watch, end of sentence. There is no justification for your friend doing this, and you should encourage the other people around her to actually stand up for her instead of all of y'all letting this happen and being like "lol he just wants a girlfriend".
posted by Lyn Never at 10:58 AM on August 10, 2022 [44 favorites]

Losing friends is one of the ways people get wake-up calls about their behavior. Do both of yourselves a favor and walk away.

Many things may happen in the future, but right now your place is someplace else.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 12:14 PM on August 10, 2022 [2 favorites]

How will you feel if he kills her? This woman is in danger. Help her find somewhere else to live. Support her, not your creepy "friend."
She needs to know she is seen, and that harrassment and stalking are not normal, and she shouldn't have to endure it.
Preserve a life, not a dangerous "friendship."
posted by Enid Lareg at 12:15 PM on August 10, 2022 [12 favorites]

You must TELL HIM TO STOP. Your silence is functioning as approval. You are a person he will listen to so you must leverage your privilege with him to increase her safety. This is not the time to be conflict-averse. This is the time to be an ally to that woman.

Sample scripts:

You did WHAT? Dude, what? NO!
Whoa, dude, that's creepy.
That's stalking.
That's illegal.
That's not ok.
You're crossing a line.
The way you're touching her is inappropriate.
Do not go to her home / workplace / school.
Dude, you need to stop.
Name, this is stalking.
Your fixation on her is a problem.
You need therapy.
Name, as your best friend, I'm saying this with love; (any of the above).

Also, support the woman. Can you help her move, and keep her new location secret? Can you be a witness to her restraining order?

It's not the time to show what a good person you are by cutting ties with a creep. It's time to show what a good person you are by TRYING TO PERSUADE HIM TO STOP BEING A CREEP.
posted by nouvelle-personne at 12:53 PM on August 10, 2022 [19 favorites]

I was stalked at one point, it's hard to know for definite how how dangerous this guy is but it doesn't sound great. If you can speak to her, I would advise the roommate to speak to a stalking support agency. If in UK I spoke to Action for Stalking, and I also got long-term support from Paladin. They assessed the person stalking me quite quickly (though it was kind of obvious) so I moved out straight away for safety (I was lucky enough to be able to do this). I hope you are in a country with support. If you are most of the agencies should be able to tell the roommate quite quickly if he's high risk and advise on safety plans/whether/how to speak to the police. They deal with calls day in/day out and are well trained and good at assessing situations. They should also give you advice if you call them directly.
I'm hesitant on whether or not it's the right approach for you to say to someone who's potentially dangerous what he's doing wrong, again they should be able to advise you. I've also called Refuge in the UK for advise on a friend's domestic violence situation and how to support her. The only issue you may find at times is getting through to them on the phone as they can be busy. The other thing I'd say is don't delay, even if you don't say something to him it sounds like she's at risk. Agencies can also sign-post on how to get restraining orders/other types of orders.
posted by blue_eyes at 2:30 PM on August 10, 2022 [2 favorites]

Agree that the safety of the woman here comes first, then any other responsibilities you may have.

I had a friend once who turned out to be a manipulative serial rapist and I wish I had paid closer attention to my gut and/or talked about it with the women involved. But it was not obvious and we all also felt a responsibility as his friend even as the crimes were piling up. It's a bad feeling, I sympathize.

Talking with the roommate about this and helping her take action to ensure her own safety (moving out, confrontation, restraining order etc) is priority 1, and may also provide the context needed for the scripts suggested above. "I helped her because she asked me for help, and because what you've been doing is way over the line. I'm telling you as a friend that you need to stop" and that sort of thing.

Hope this goes OK for you and her and that this guy can be made to understand his behavior here.
posted by BlackLeotardFront at 2:32 PM on August 10, 2022 [1 favorite]

I think my gut is telling me to cut all ties for good

To me, cutting all ties means you also cut ties with others who know the person like the roommates, so I'm assuming that's what you are asking about. At least make sure they know the extent of his behavior and that he didn't complete his treatment. Make sure they are aware that this behavior is dangerous and in what way, if they are in their 20's they might not have encountered such things before and not understand the danger.

Personally I wouldn't feel good about knowing people are in danger and cutting ties with them. At least talk to the roommates about the situation! The danger might increase for them after you cut ties.

It's very scary to me but sad at the same time that he has trouble finding a partner.

There are plenty of people who do these scary things and do have a partner. Not having a partner isn't a reason or excuse, and having a partner doesn't stop creepy people from doing these things.
posted by yohko at 3:07 PM on August 10, 2022 [5 favorites]

I think my gut is telling me to cut all ties for good

By the way, I cannot recommend enough The Gift Of Fear for both you and your friend.

The whole book is worth reading, but I heavily push chapter 4 on young people of every gender as they graduate high school. Fear has gotten a uniformly bad rap in our society, and there are times when you really should be listening.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 9:20 AM on August 11, 2022 [3 favorites]

There’s great advice above, and the comments telling you to at least inform the family are really important.

Cutting all ties is the easiest option, but it means that there will be no one left to monitor his behaviour. If you feel guilty for being witness to his behaviour, please don’t just walk away leaving the door open to escalation. The woman needs to know, as does his family and wider social sphere.

I’m sorry to be so dour about it, but good people seeing evil behaviour and doing nothing is how you can end up with tragedy . I speak from experience. There was a young man in my wider friend group several years ago who was stalking and obsessing over his ex in a similar way, and his male friends just figured they’d hang out with him less and that would solve it… but instead a few months later he ended up breaking into her home and raping her. All the women in my group only found out about this after his friends talked about their guilt for staying silent (and despite that guilt, they never showed up to support her when she filed for a restraining order).

Resist the urge to be complacent. This sucks and is exhausting, yes, but please consider taking the high road on this. You don’t have to correct his behaviour, but you need people to know so they can protect themselves and hold him accountable.
posted by Pemberly at 6:21 PM on August 13, 2022 [1 favorite]