Do I butt in on this work incident? (academia, dysfunctional)

August 9, 2022 6:47 PM

I am a technical staff member in a research lab office. Another newer staff member did something that made a newest staff member uncomfortable. I think the victim is getting screwed and it all is being handled in a very upsetting way, but I heard this secondhand and can’t decide whether to butt in and try to sway the outcome although I think I have to do it in soon if so.

I work in academia as support staff in a research lab office environment that is Very Dysfunctional. I am a cis female and have been here about 6 years which is forever in our high turnover lab.

We have a new-ish (1 year) male employee A who sent a message on our unofficial lab Slack to a newer (2-month) female employee B. I have not seen the message but I am told the message was a joke that was very explicit and disgusting and the message sender described it as "hilarious." B screen capped it immediately and sent it to her direct manager C who is another staff member basically at the same level as me. B also sent it to the lab manager D (male) who is both C's and my manager. It got sent along to the lab PI (my boss's boss, female) and included someone from HR on it. The message was also sent to the department head, my PI's boss.

I am hearing this all from C - we frequently commiserate about how shitty and dysfunctional everything is here.

Before this incident, I had a strange incident with A. He wasn't doing quality work even after a year of training, and was frequently just MIA or sitting at his desk not working. Once I attempted to go over some mistakes with him on some work he did and I said something like "you missed this part and need to correct it" He got upset and said "could you not use the word you?" and I said "huh?" and he said it felt accusatory to him. I went to talk to to my manager D and said this was really weird and A was just not doing quality work or accepting assistance and frequently just not doing any work he was asked to.

(It is extremely unusual for anyone to get fired or reprimanded in my lab. The last person we had who screwed around just got her duties shifted around until she eventually got caught falsifying her time sheets and then let go.)

Interacting with my manager D is always ridiculously casual. he is always very friendly and easy to talk to and wants to make sure everyone is happy and everything is smoothed over which is very nice but things get unprofessional very quickly. For example: Over the next couple days D talked to A, then D talked to me and told me A has family trouble and my corrections were triggering him and D was trying to convince A to go to therapy but he won't do it (yeah D always tells everyone everyone's stuff like this). D said A wants to move his desk to the isolated area because he doesn't want to sit near me. I discussed with D and we determined that would be a bad idea because it would just be easier for him to screw around instead of working. Then of course the whole thing just kind of got dropped. Whatever. I always have a loooot to do so as long as A isn't actively dragging me down I can survive.

So the Slack incident with B happened. C told me about it that day and said PI was very displeased and there was a meeting set up with PI, an HR person, and A. Before that meeting happened, C and I chatted in person about it and C was fairly confident that A would be let go.

The meeting happened today and I just asked C if he knew how it went. C told me that A apologized to PI and HR person and they forgave him and now it's going to be the department head's decision.

C said he and D also met with B. C and D have been having B work from home so she and A don't have to interact with each other (me, A, B, and C are all in the same open office area). C said he told D that he thinks B being the one who has to work from home while A gets to work in our area is unfair. C said that D is thinking about moving B's desk to the isolated area. C and I both agree that this is insane.

I am livid. I have experienced many incidents in this job where academia is just revealed as a horribly unethical awful place and I have a mental crisis about whether I should leave my job or try to switch labs. This is another one of those times. My job is so good though except for all this. All the benefits that people sometimes screw around and take advantage of are really freaking good, and I have seen how low you have to go to get fired. The pay is shit but job security/benefits/commute are so great and I love (most of) the work I do. I am trying not to puff myself up but I am pretty valuable in the lab since I hold a lot of accumulated technical knowledge in a high turnover place and they would likely be in a tough spot if I left.

But I am not writing about whether I should leave this job (yet).

C and I agree that department head will probably do nothing so A will probably stay. I am SO pissed off that A is probably going to get to keep his job and probably keep his desk in the social main area next to me. To me D moving B to the isolated spot is so wrong, "punishing the victim" levels of insane. B is super sweet and is excelling at her training and for her to get screwed like this is really killing me. B and C would still have meetings together and PI pushes hard for "team bonding" and for us to do social lab stuff. I can't get my head around how the worst possible outcome is unfolding and I am so, so pissed.

Given that I heard all this second hand from C... I told C I was thinking of messaging D to talk to him about it because I am so so pissed off (C is too). I asked C if that was a good idea and he suggested waiting since nothing is really fully decided yet. It's probably wise for me to cool down first but I feel like I should butt in and register that this is VERY BAD before things get dropped. I'm very close to doing any of these things: messaging D, emailing PI and/or HR person to let them know I am VERY upset about this potential outcome, emailing department head to say something to him before he decides (but what???), setting up an IRL meeting with D, looking for some anonymous whistleblower form on the institution website??

I am feeling like this is very urgent because of department head's potential decision. I feel like once that is done (ie department head decides to do nothing) then it's all over and B is so screwed and shit will be swept under the rug. I feel like I can tell D that he'd be punishing the victim by moving B and not A and he would listen, but I feel weird about that because this info is second hand from C. I am really feeling like I need to act now!! Ugh. I really appreciate any advice.

posted by crime online to Work & Money (19 answers total)

Are you in the US? If yes, seek out your institution’s Title IX Coordinator. If you’re not in the US, see if there is a similar office that responds to sexual harassment issues.
posted by Kriesa at 7:18 PM on August 9, 2022 [17 favorites]

C and I agree that department head will probably do nothing so A will probably stay.

Sorry, where the fuck is the PI? She is the one who needs to own this and make it right. Sorry I lost track of all the several layers of people, but in my world of natural science labs in academia, the PI is the one you need to talk to, and if she isn't hearing it, well then maybe you know it's time to look elsewhere. Everything else is a red herring. It doesn't matter if you "only heard this second hand", there are screenshots and other documentation right? So this is just advocating (hopefully as a group) for the rights of a new employee to not be harassed in the workplace slack, full stop. If you fear your PI's reaction to you speaking up against harassment, then you can seek title IX help etc, but that's also a clear sign to move on.
You all deserve better than this, it does not reflect well on your lab, PI, dept., or institution. If it were me I may be tempted to wave that around too, ymmv.
posted by SaltySalticid at 7:20 PM on August 9, 2022 [18 favorites]

I am pretty valuable in the lab since I hold a lot of accumulated technical knowledge in a high turnover place and they would likely be in a tough spot if I left.

That puts you in a pretty solid place from which to have a Come To Jesus talk with D. I'd do that. Have in fact done that in similar circumstances, with satisfactory results.
posted by flabdablet at 7:39 PM on August 9, 2022 [8 favorites]

This is probably hopelessly naive of me, but are you folks unionized??
posted by Sweetchrysanthemum at 7:46 PM on August 9, 2022 [4 favorites]

This is pretty location-dependent. Where I am, this decision should never be handled by a PI or a department head--it should go straight to the university-level office that handles harassment issues. If the PI had failed to report it to this office, they would be negligent (and potentially in big trouble). Your institution must have some sort of policy on this, and I agree with the answers above that the Title IX office would be the first place to look.
posted by mr_roboto at 7:52 PM on August 9, 2022 [3 favorites]

Response by poster: Ohohohohhh ahahaha we are so incredibly not unionized

Want to add: My partner just got home and I filled him in and he pointed out that I probably shouldn’t do anything without B’s approval so I’m not escalating this and making her the focus of it without her consent. Ugh, he’s got a point.

I did send B a “Hey, I heard about all this and the response is bullshit/it was badass of you to send that screen cap” message earlier but am not planning to send anything further.

I have an anonymous HR/harassment violation reporting form almost filled out but don’t really know what to say in the incident description box other than “the response is unfair to the victim!!” since the situation has already been escalated and “handled” by PI and HR.

Title IX stuff at my institution seems to only be police assault reporting forms or scheduling a IRL meeting with a staff ombudsperson.

I’d reeeeally prefer to stay anonymous if I report anything because of my touchy history with A, and because let’s face it, I’m probably going to still be working at the desk next to A after this blows over.
posted by crime online at 8:03 PM on August 9, 2022

Definitely look for another job, this is bananas.
posted by grouse at 8:14 PM on August 9, 2022 [6 favorites]

Every time an A is allowed to become a Missing Stair in an organization, he inevitably ends up costing exponentially more in terms of turnover/actual talent than it would cost to repair or replace his Missing Stair ass. That goes double in academic research, IMHO, especially when PIs and HR avert their eyes.

All this is to say that I’m glad you’re willing to report this (pending B’s blessing, and however anonymously).

Does your institution also have an anonymous ethics hotline you can consult? Talking in real time might help you crystallize your message for the form.
posted by armeowda at 8:14 PM on August 9, 2022 [4 favorites]

I'm a manager-of-managers at a FAANG company and would quit if I weren't empowered to remove A. I realize this may not be 100% helpful but I do want to validate your being outraged here.

Holy shit, do consequences ever need to fall on A and not B.
posted by ethand at 8:52 PM on August 9, 2022 [9 favorites]

fwiw in my work environment I'd strongly suggest focusing on the Slack sexual harassment and not the other issues you mention, annoying/weird as they may have been.

I don't know if that'll be the same in a university but I think there's a significant difference between someone not doing their job (or being deeply weird about it) and someone harassing their coworkers. The appropriate remedy is not at all the same, you want the remedy for "harassing" and not for "unproductive".
posted by ethand at 9:13 PM on August 9, 2022 [5 favorites]

Response by poster: ethand- absolutely, i would only report anything related to the incident with B (hesitant to call it harassment because it was only one message?? but maybe that is wrong??). I’m worried that if word got out that it was reported, and it probably would, it’d be obvious it was me that did it, since I was the only one who had a prior issue with him.
posted by crime online at 9:49 PM on August 9, 2022

IANAL but yes, a single incident absolutely can be considered harassment if it is egregious enough.

I would suggest talking to D, or at the very least filling out the anonymous form, to indicate your concern that changing B's work environment and opportunities as a result of her reporting A's inappropriate behavior could put the organization at risk for a Retaliation claim. That ought to get their attention.

Here's a quick link that covers both those topics if you want to brush up first.
posted by platinum at 10:35 PM on August 9, 2022 [5 favorites]

Credentials: I'm a PI of an academic research lab in a dysfunctional department and university.

Don't do the anonymous form. Don't have anything to do with HR or the Title 9 office.

You have to use the power you have. In a bad environment, institutional processes don't have power to do good, so don't bother.

The power you have is your value to the lab, especially if you leave or refuse to do certain things. This power is greatly, greatly magnified if you can get anyone else in the lab on board. Maybe C? Maybe anyone else you can talk into joining you?

So you (and ideally your posse) meet with the lab manager and PI together. Make it clear to them how seriously you take this and that you think it would seriously damage lab morale if B experiences any retaliation, and that you no longer are willing to work with A. Basically imply that you would leave over this without actually saying those words. Turn it into a lab rebellion - that's basically your only shot.
posted by medusa at 10:58 PM on August 9, 2022 [44 favorites]

So the outcome of sexual harassment is to have B (the victim) work from home and move her desk away from the others? Outrageous. She should quit this lab (which is still putting all the consequences on the victim but why would anyone want to stay in such a dysfunctional environment) and you should talk to the PI and let them know you're considering resigning over this incident. A PI who is successful enough to run a lab with multiple levels of staff needs to take responsibility for managing said staff.
I'm sorry you are dealing with this. I think you should look for other jobs as well, sounds like you have a lot to offer and I bet you could find another job that pays better and isn't a shitshow.
posted by emd3737 at 2:08 AM on August 10, 2022 [2 favorites]

Send the form. I don’t know about your campus, but on ours, they are pretty clear that incidents should be reported whether or not the victim or target wants it reported. Rather than just saying it is simply unfair, I would spell out that it is sexual discrimination to not merely tolerate A’s harassment of B but for her report of it to result in working conditions that favor A over B, and that it reflects poorly on the institution, and discourages reporting.
posted by Kriesa at 2:42 AM on August 10, 2022 [8 favorites]

If you or B do report, “retaliation” is the key word to use. Your university will have an anti-retaliation policy that says if B made a complaint about harassment in good faith, she has to be protected from retaliation. It sounds as if you, and maybe B, are interpreting this response as retaliation. The university may or may not agree when all is said and done, but framing it that way can help kick them into gear to investigate it.
posted by Stacey at 3:58 AM on August 10, 2022 [17 favorites]

My response echo's Stacey's. I'm not in academia so I can't speak to that. What I do know is as a manager in the state of California, I have to go through anti-harassment training every year. In those trainings, they make it very clear that if someone has reported harassment, under no circumstances is that specific individual's working conditions to be changed in any way that can be interpreted as them being denied opportunities or otherwise materially worse than they were before harassment was reported, because that can absolutely be deemed as retaliation and makes the claimant's case around harassment stronger. Reason is, the laws state something along the lines of anyone making a good faith claim of harassment must be protected and a proper investigation is to take place, something along those lines. I'm not a lawyer, for the record.

If any changes at work are supposed to happen during or after the investigation, depending on the outcome of the investigation, is that the harasser can be told to work from home or moved to a different department, etc. in order to protect those that have been harassed. So, it sounds like your lab has done it the other way around which is why you are livid.

The training stated you can encourage the harassed individual to report the retaliation to their manager and HR and mention what you have observed to your manager and HR. When an investigation takes places, respond honestly with the facts. I have never gone through this myself and am sharing based on what I have picked up from training.
posted by Goblin Barbarian at 8:01 AM on August 10, 2022 [3 favorites]

Ugh, I would also be livid in this situation. It is grossly unfair and sounds like your workplace is basically doing the opposite of what they are supposed to when something like this happens. To me, this looks like clear retaliation and it is creating a hostile work environment for everyone except A. If you use those words with your management, even the most clueless should realize that this is serious and they need to make things right.

That said, when reading your question, I was struck by the lack of mention of B's reaction to what is happening to her, and by how much conversation seems to be happening without her involvement. Your partner is right to warn that she and her needs/desires should be centred in any response that references her case specifically. It would be a bad idea to make assumptions and act on them without talking to her.
posted by rpfields at 6:23 PM on August 10, 2022 [1 favorite]

I'm not sure what discipline your PI is in and from where they receive funding but the federal funding agencies in the US - the National Science Foundation, National Institutes of Health, etc. - have begun to get much more serious about sexual harassment and not funding PIs associated with sexual harassment. That may be useful information for you and your colleagues. Of course, you'll want to research the specifics of the relevant funder(s) and policy(ies).
posted by ElKevbo at 7:33 PM on August 11, 2022 [1 favorite]