Looking for insight into a very disturbing habit my parents have.
July 26, 2022 9:05 AM Subscribe
I'm trying to gain some insight into why I find a particular interaction with my parents so disturbing and enraging. It involves rumours, and them taking the side of a neighbour over me.
I'm in my 40s now and this story has gone on for 25 years. When I was 15 there was a woman who lived down the block, who for some reason was on speaking terms with all of the children, teenagers, and adults in the community. We can call her Lisa. My childhood best friend, Eric, was dating his next-door neighbour, Margaret, and this was a relationship that went on for the better part of a decade. I believe they started dating when they were 15 or 16, and they moved in together as they progressed through University and beyond. For some reason, Lisa got it into her head that she had seen me secretly kissing ("making out with") Margaret. At the time I found this unfathomable because I was happy for Eric and Margaret, we were all friends, and I would not have betrayed Eric in that way. I wasn't interested in Margaret, not even in the way a teenager might be. Lisa, however, loved her story and even went so far as to tell my parents about it. I am happy to say that Eric either never heard this story, or paid it no heed, and so it did not cause any conflict between us.
Anytime that our old neighbourhood would come up, over the next 25 years, my parents would find a way to bring up the fact that Lisa had told them I had been seen kissing Margaret. They would smile and laugh as they told me this. At first I was confused, and told them that it simply wasn't true. I remember thinking, "No, my first kiss was with ..., not Margaret." As they repeated this story over the years, I began to get angry. As I matured into my thirties, and I reflected on it more, I became deeply disgusted with it. Lisa had invented a story about the sex lives of teenagers, had spread a rumour about it, and had told my parents about it. At one point, I said, paraphrased, "I assure you that this is not true. It is important to me that you tell me you believe me instead of Lisa, the woman down the street who makes up stories about teenagers kissing. I need you to tell me now that you believe me instead of her." They did not respond to that; I suspect they found it deeply amusing that I made this speech. It got to the point where I felt like I could not discuss any of the people from our old neighbourhood, for fear of needing to endure another round of this needling.
The last time I saw them, which is now three years ago because of the pandemic, they took me for a drive through the old neighbourhood. They of course brought up this story that Lisa had seen me kissing Margaret. I guess I could not handle it anymore because I immediately yelled, "SHUT THE FUCK UP!" from the backseat of the car. They reacted to this with laughter.
This has, among other reasons, formed the basis of my reasoning for going very low contact with my parents about 2 years ago. I basically begged them over the years to stop talking to me about this. I felt betrayed that I could say clearly that it was important that they believe me. The content of the story is so insubstantive that I would not remember it if they had joked about it once. They repeated the joke time after time, however. They have a habit of bringing up the same thing for decades: a spilled drink in a restaurant, a less-than-perfect job done with household chores, a childhood phobia, difficulties with school, failed relationships. Nothing is ever "over" for them.
When I think about these incidents now, I get deeply disgusted, as if someone is touching me in a way that they should not be, and won't stop.
My questions are...
1. Should I bother to tell them what this behaviour has made me feel?
2. Does this type of behaviour have a name?
3. Can anyone suggest any resources for helping to heal from this? I have a therapist, but we are focussed on some immediate emergencies in my life.
4. Is my instinct to just stop talking to them in a meaningful way wrongheaded?
I'm in my 40s now and this story has gone on for 25 years. When I was 15 there was a woman who lived down the block, who for some reason was on speaking terms with all of the children, teenagers, and adults in the community. We can call her Lisa. My childhood best friend, Eric, was dating his next-door neighbour, Margaret, and this was a relationship that went on for the better part of a decade. I believe they started dating when they were 15 or 16, and they moved in together as they progressed through University and beyond. For some reason, Lisa got it into her head that she had seen me secretly kissing ("making out with") Margaret. At the time I found this unfathomable because I was happy for Eric and Margaret, we were all friends, and I would not have betrayed Eric in that way. I wasn't interested in Margaret, not even in the way a teenager might be. Lisa, however, loved her story and even went so far as to tell my parents about it. I am happy to say that Eric either never heard this story, or paid it no heed, and so it did not cause any conflict between us.
Anytime that our old neighbourhood would come up, over the next 25 years, my parents would find a way to bring up the fact that Lisa had told them I had been seen kissing Margaret. They would smile and laugh as they told me this. At first I was confused, and told them that it simply wasn't true. I remember thinking, "No, my first kiss was with ..., not Margaret." As they repeated this story over the years, I began to get angry. As I matured into my thirties, and I reflected on it more, I became deeply disgusted with it. Lisa had invented a story about the sex lives of teenagers, had spread a rumour about it, and had told my parents about it. At one point, I said, paraphrased, "I assure you that this is not true. It is important to me that you tell me you believe me instead of Lisa, the woman down the street who makes up stories about teenagers kissing. I need you to tell me now that you believe me instead of her." They did not respond to that; I suspect they found it deeply amusing that I made this speech. It got to the point where I felt like I could not discuss any of the people from our old neighbourhood, for fear of needing to endure another round of this needling.
The last time I saw them, which is now three years ago because of the pandemic, they took me for a drive through the old neighbourhood. They of course brought up this story that Lisa had seen me kissing Margaret. I guess I could not handle it anymore because I immediately yelled, "SHUT THE FUCK UP!" from the backseat of the car. They reacted to this with laughter.
This has, among other reasons, formed the basis of my reasoning for going very low contact with my parents about 2 years ago. I basically begged them over the years to stop talking to me about this. I felt betrayed that I could say clearly that it was important that they believe me. The content of the story is so insubstantive that I would not remember it if they had joked about it once. They repeated the joke time after time, however. They have a habit of bringing up the same thing for decades: a spilled drink in a restaurant, a less-than-perfect job done with household chores, a childhood phobia, difficulties with school, failed relationships. Nothing is ever "over" for them.
When I think about these incidents now, I get deeply disgusted, as if someone is touching me in a way that they should not be, and won't stop.
My questions are...
1. Should I bother to tell them what this behaviour has made me feel?
2. Does this type of behaviour have a name?
3. Can anyone suggest any resources for helping to heal from this? I have a therapist, but we are focussed on some immediate emergencies in my life.
4. Is my instinct to just stop talking to them in a meaningful way wrongheaded?
I'm so sorry you have to deal with this.
1 - No harm in doing so, if it won't make your life more difficult.
4 - No. You don't even need a reason to do that if it makes you happier.
Compared to everything in life, this specific thing doesn't matter. Being accused of having a teenage love affair isn't really much of a slander these days. But, it probably annoys you because it's a small part of bigger frustration with your parents. I have no resources to offer, but I do offer sympathy and best wishes. My mom hangs on to weird little stories about my childhood. Fortunately, none that are hurtful, so far. (Actually some of them go the opposite direction of yours.)
My mischievous temptation would be to lean into it in such a way that they're too embarrassed to bring it up again. Brag in graphic detail about all the unusual sexual acts you and Margaret got up to on their bed while wearing their clothes while they were out until they become embarrassed. But, that might not be your style. And it certainly won't solve the bigger problem.
posted by eotvos at 9:29 AM on July 26, 2022 [5 favorites]
1 - No harm in doing so, if it won't make your life more difficult.
4 - No. You don't even need a reason to do that if it makes you happier.
Compared to everything in life, this specific thing doesn't matter. Being accused of having a teenage love affair isn't really much of a slander these days. But, it probably annoys you because it's a small part of bigger frustration with your parents. I have no resources to offer, but I do offer sympathy and best wishes. My mom hangs on to weird little stories about my childhood. Fortunately, none that are hurtful, so far. (Actually some of them go the opposite direction of yours.)
My mischievous temptation would be to lean into it in such a way that they're too embarrassed to bring it up again. Brag in graphic detail about all the unusual sexual acts you and Margaret got up to on their bed while wearing their clothes while they were out until they become embarrassed. But, that might not be your style. And it certainly won't solve the bigger problem.
posted by eotvos at 9:29 AM on July 26, 2022 [5 favorites]
Your parents don't believe this, they're winding you up because it's amusing. I can't address their motives, but they think it's funny. My parents did this, but I didn't find it amusing and I ignored it or said, "yeah," and as soon as they didn't get a reaction it faded away. Everyone's parents do this to some extent. Stop reacting and they'll stop.
posted by AugustusCrunch at 9:31 AM on July 26, 2022 [53 favorites]
posted by AugustusCrunch at 9:31 AM on July 26, 2022 [53 favorites]
1. They know how it makes you feel but prefer their own enjoyment in upsetting you.
2. In narcissistic terms you could be the scapegoat of the family. They bond by humiliating you.
3. Look up narcissism and grey rock techniques
4. No harm in distancing yourself. I'd do a slow fade and send only cards. No phone calls, no big announcement.
posted by charlielx at 9:31 AM on July 26, 2022 [24 favorites]
2. In narcissistic terms you could be the scapegoat of the family. They bond by humiliating you.
3. Look up narcissism and grey rock techniques
4. No harm in distancing yourself. I'd do a slow fade and send only cards. No phone calls, no big announcement.
posted by charlielx at 9:31 AM on July 26, 2022 [24 favorites]
I've been leaning hard into your #4 for years now, and while it makes me sad that I don't have parents I can go to for trusted support when life is shitty, I have also protected myself from being repeatedly hurt by them in the specific way they do.
I can find other support systems when I need support. I don't have to subject myself to bad behavior. My mental health is heaps better now.
You have to accept that you cannot effect any change on the way they treat you. But you CAN reduce their opportunities to treat you in this way.
Good luck.
posted by phunniemee at 9:32 AM on July 26, 2022 [7 favorites]
I can find other support systems when I need support. I don't have to subject myself to bad behavior. My mental health is heaps better now.
You have to accept that you cannot effect any change on the way they treat you. But you CAN reduce their opportunities to treat you in this way.
Good luck.
posted by phunniemee at 9:32 AM on July 26, 2022 [7 favorites]
Their behavior (laughing at your pain) shows a deep lack of empathy for you.
One possibility is that they are uncomfortable with their own role in these situations. If the story were true about you kissing Margaret, it means your parents were clueless about their child's life and important events in it. It means their child did not trust them enough to confide in them. It means they did not teach their child healthy habits about romantic relationships, causing their child's first kiss to be one rooted in betrayal and unethical behavior.
Instead of confronting that uncomfortable reality, they choose to perpetuate a narrative that reduces it to a funny incident. After some time passes, that facade starts to crack, and they start to hear an inner voice saying, "Maybe you weren't great parents." Thus they feel a need to bring up the incident and refresh the narrative, "It was funny! Yes it was! Look at me laughing! I'm NOT a negligent parent!"
One way to stop them would be to explicitly question their role. When they say, "Lisa says you kissed Margaret, ha ha", you could say, "So you were so unaware of your child's life that you only know about it from neighbors? And you raised a child who whose first kiss would be due to cheating? You're proud of being that kind of parent? What do you think this says about your parenting?" They would probably never bring it up again.
It's also fine to go low-contact or no-contact, if they have a pattern of being low-empathy.
posted by cheesecake at 9:33 AM on July 26, 2022 [8 favorites]
One possibility is that they are uncomfortable with their own role in these situations. If the story were true about you kissing Margaret, it means your parents were clueless about their child's life and important events in it. It means their child did not trust them enough to confide in them. It means they did not teach their child healthy habits about romantic relationships, causing their child's first kiss to be one rooted in betrayal and unethical behavior.
Instead of confronting that uncomfortable reality, they choose to perpetuate a narrative that reduces it to a funny incident. After some time passes, that facade starts to crack, and they start to hear an inner voice saying, "Maybe you weren't great parents." Thus they feel a need to bring up the incident and refresh the narrative, "It was funny! Yes it was! Look at me laughing! I'm NOT a negligent parent!"
One way to stop them would be to explicitly question their role. When they say, "Lisa says you kissed Margaret, ha ha", you could say, "So you were so unaware of your child's life that you only know about it from neighbors? And you raised a child who whose first kiss would be due to cheating? You're proud of being that kind of parent? What do you think this says about your parenting?" They would probably never bring it up again.
It's also fine to go low-contact or no-contact, if they have a pattern of being low-empathy.
posted by cheesecake at 9:33 AM on July 26, 2022 [8 favorites]
Hey there, I don't know what the name for this might be, but it pings some Boundary stuff, Individuation stuff, and that Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents stuff too, and just sounds really upsetting - it's not okay for them to treat you this way. Like a lot parent/boundary stuff, one thing is probably emblematic for a whole longstanding bunch of other things.
Captain Awkward has helped me a lot with parental boundary problems, including the ones that don't fall under any category beyond "why are my family members deciding to keep doing this thing that hurts me?"
I'd add that to some degree the reason why they're doing this isn't your problem or mystery to solve - for w/e reason they're doing this, they're doing this, and they need to stop.
It sounds like you have told them, many times, how this behavior makes you feel. I don't think the problem is you finding the right words or right example to get them to understand you - probably with boundary pushing folks, the only thing they recognize are boundary consequences: if you bring up the Lisa story, I will exit the conversation/visit/house.
People want the people close to them to hear them, and to see them, and when those people, especially family, bulldoze them or neg them or otherwise communicate that who you are and what you want and how to treat you well doesn't matter - that's tremendously hurtful. And definitely worth bringing up in therapy, when there's space for it.
posted by Geameade at 9:34 AM on July 26, 2022 [14 favorites]
Captain Awkward has helped me a lot with parental boundary problems, including the ones that don't fall under any category beyond "why are my family members deciding to keep doing this thing that hurts me?"
I'd add that to some degree the reason why they're doing this isn't your problem or mystery to solve - for w/e reason they're doing this, they're doing this, and they need to stop.
It sounds like you have told them, many times, how this behavior makes you feel. I don't think the problem is you finding the right words or right example to get them to understand you - probably with boundary pushing folks, the only thing they recognize are boundary consequences: if you bring up the Lisa story, I will exit the conversation/visit/house.
People want the people close to them to hear them, and to see them, and when those people, especially family, bulldoze them or neg them or otherwise communicate that who you are and what you want and how to treat you well doesn't matter - that's tremendously hurtful. And definitely worth bringing up in therapy, when there's space for it.
posted by Geameade at 9:34 AM on July 26, 2022 [14 favorites]
Everyone's parents do this to some extent.
Holy shit, no, no they do not. Not everyone's parents mock them for DECADES about every last little thing.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 9:34 AM on July 26, 2022 [113 favorites]
Holy shit, no, no they do not. Not everyone's parents mock them for DECADES about every last little thing.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 9:34 AM on July 26, 2022 [113 favorites]
Best answer: The content of the story is so insubstantive that I would not remember it if they had joked about it once. They repeated the joke time after time, however. They have a habit of bringing up the same thing for decades: a spilled drink in a restaurant, a less-than-perfect job done with household chores, a childhood phobia, difficulties with school, failed relationships. Nothing is ever "over" for them.
This jumped out at me - because it suggests to me that this isn't even about the rumors or the spilled drink or the chores. It looks more to me like, your parents get a kick out of seeing you upset, and they know that these are the triggers that can get you upset. It's like you're this juke box and they know that all they have to do is push a button and you'll react in this predictable way and they like seeing that.
So in other words, this isn't about them believing your neighbor instead of you. This is about your parents being bullies.
Fuck that shit. You have my permission to just never talk to them again - or, instead of having a come-to-Jesus about it, maybe politely see them, but the next time they bring any of that stuff up, you tell them once that "you know, you both have a habit of picking on me for things. That is hurtful and I am not going to allow you to treat me like that any more. If you do it again I will leave." And then change the subject, and if they do it again, then say good bye and leave/hang up/whatever.
This isn't about the neighbor. They probably don't even CARE about the neighbor, they're only doing this because they know if they say something you'll flip out and they think it's funny watching you flip out. Fuck that.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:36 AM on July 26, 2022 [111 favorites]
This jumped out at me - because it suggests to me that this isn't even about the rumors or the spilled drink or the chores. It looks more to me like, your parents get a kick out of seeing you upset, and they know that these are the triggers that can get you upset. It's like you're this juke box and they know that all they have to do is push a button and you'll react in this predictable way and they like seeing that.
So in other words, this isn't about them believing your neighbor instead of you. This is about your parents being bullies.
Fuck that shit. You have my permission to just never talk to them again - or, instead of having a come-to-Jesus about it, maybe politely see them, but the next time they bring any of that stuff up, you tell them once that "you know, you both have a habit of picking on me for things. That is hurtful and I am not going to allow you to treat me like that any more. If you do it again I will leave." And then change the subject, and if they do it again, then say good bye and leave/hang up/whatever.
This isn't about the neighbor. They probably don't even CARE about the neighbor, they're only doing this because they know if they say something you'll flip out and they think it's funny watching you flip out. Fuck that.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:36 AM on July 26, 2022 [111 favorites]
They probably see this as affectionate teasing, not as not believing you or believing you are the kind of person who would kiss his best friend's girlfriend. That they see it that way doesn't make it acceptable, but it's unlikely they genuinely believe you kissed Margaret and it doesn't even matter to them. They're doing it because of the reaction, not because of the content of the story.
It's fairly common behaviour in families to give people the gears over past incidents -- in our family, we lightly mocked my Dad about accidentally following a grocery store delivery truck instead of going home for literally years, but your parents should long since have realized that this has gone well beyond a minor funny thing they can rib you about and into something that causes you genuine distress. Families can do injokes and teasing and have it be reasonably healthy, but only if everyone gets in on it and only if its allowed to go in all directions -- I bet if you teased your parents about something like this, they would *not* consider it acceptable.
If you want to stop having contact with them over this, that's probably not a wild overreaction, because if they are so concertedly mean over this one thing, I bet there are other ways in which they are really controlling and disrespectful to you, as well.
posted by jacquilynne at 9:41 AM on July 26, 2022 [26 favorites]
It's fairly common behaviour in families to give people the gears over past incidents -- in our family, we lightly mocked my Dad about accidentally following a grocery store delivery truck instead of going home for literally years, but your parents should long since have realized that this has gone well beyond a minor funny thing they can rib you about and into something that causes you genuine distress. Families can do injokes and teasing and have it be reasonably healthy, but only if everyone gets in on it and only if its allowed to go in all directions -- I bet if you teased your parents about something like this, they would *not* consider it acceptable.
If you want to stop having contact with them over this, that's probably not a wild overreaction, because if they are so concertedly mean over this one thing, I bet there are other ways in which they are really controlling and disrespectful to you, as well.
posted by jacquilynne at 9:41 AM on July 26, 2022 [26 favorites]
One term used in psychology that comes to mind is "infantilization". Your parents are asserting a power dynamic. They have found something that pushes your buttons, and using it despite you setting a clear boundary. My parents had the attitude that wounding a person's ego had some virtue like teaching Protestant humility that they used to justify their abusive behavior. For example, I wanted to minimize my consumption of meat, and they would sneak meat into what I ate then let me know later. It created a huge rift between us. So I empathize with your frustration. They have to accept and acknowledge you as an independent adult, and that's a difficult dynamic to change without their participation. Allow yourself the need to create a distance from people who abuse you.
posted by effluvia at 9:50 AM on July 26, 2022 [11 favorites]
posted by effluvia at 9:50 AM on July 26, 2022 [11 favorites]
So, look, your parents are being assholes. It's quite clear that they do this because they think it's funny that you react to it. Trying to communicate to them how upsetting it is isn't going to help - that's why they're doing it. If you want to continue to have a relationship with them, and you want them to stop doing this, your only play is not to react. Watch a couple of episodes of Succession and practice saying "uh-huh" the way Brian Cox does on that show, and do that whenever this comes up. They will likely stop eventually, once they stop getting a rise out of you. They will, however, remain assholes. Whether you want to continue to have a relationship with a couple of assholes who happen to be your parents is another question, and entirely up to you.
posted by Ragged Richard at 9:52 AM on July 26, 2022 [27 favorites]
posted by Ragged Richard at 9:52 AM on July 26, 2022 [27 favorites]
Hey, do you enjoy making me upset? Because that's not the kind of relationship I hope for with the people who have the most emotionally intimate tie possible with me. Life is hard. We need support from each other, especially if we only get to spend a few hours together every month. I'm not a fish in a tank you can thump to see me react. I'm a person who loves you.
posted by amtho at 10:01 AM on July 26, 2022 [8 favorites]
posted by amtho at 10:01 AM on July 26, 2022 [8 favorites]
Nth that they are doing this because they think it's funny, not because they believe it. They think it's a family in-joke.
There's a bromide I heard somewhere about how nobody can push your buttons the way your parents do: they installed them.
Anyhoo, it's dickish behavior, but only you know whether it's worth severing ties over. If they're nasty in other ways, then maybe that's a good idea. Personally I don't think I'd let this one idiot thing be the reason to make a major change in my life. Next time they say it, you might want to consider either grey-rocking as others have suggested, or leaning into it. "Yeah, you got me. I fucked her, too. Real nasty. Brought her inside, bent her right over your kitchen counter, mom, and drilled her ass." Might startle them into abandoning the whole thing; and it's offensive enough that it would put them on the defensive, instead of you. Only you know which is more likely to yield good results.
posted by fingersandtoes at 10:02 AM on July 26, 2022 [5 favorites]
There's a bromide I heard somewhere about how nobody can push your buttons the way your parents do: they installed them.
Anyhoo, it's dickish behavior, but only you know whether it's worth severing ties over. If they're nasty in other ways, then maybe that's a good idea. Personally I don't think I'd let this one idiot thing be the reason to make a major change in my life. Next time they say it, you might want to consider either grey-rocking as others have suggested, or leaning into it. "Yeah, you got me. I fucked her, too. Real nasty. Brought her inside, bent her right over your kitchen counter, mom, and drilled her ass." Might startle them into abandoning the whole thing; and it's offensive enough that it would put them on the defensive, instead of you. Only you know which is more likely to yield good results.
posted by fingersandtoes at 10:02 AM on July 26, 2022 [5 favorites]
Yeah, I'm definitely in camp 'they are winding you up'. They are teasing you in a way they find amusing, all the more so because you get upset. Some adults never grow out of this childish habit, and relish the opportunity to weild this power over their children.
Everyone's parents do this to some extent.
They don't. My mom does, and that's one of many reasons I've gone full no-contact with her.
posted by ananci at 10:02 AM on July 26, 2022 [6 favorites]
Everyone's parents do this to some extent.
They don't. My mom does, and that's one of many reasons I've gone full no-contact with her.
posted by ananci at 10:02 AM on July 26, 2022 [6 favorites]
Best answer: The word for what your parents are doing is Bullying. They are deliberately upsetting you for their own entertainment. Over many separate incidents, including one you have particularly and specifically told them is painful for you. They’re being bullies. And no, you do not have to maintain contact with bullies, no matter what your relationship to them is.
posted by Bottlecap at 10:05 AM on July 26, 2022 [28 favorites]
posted by Bottlecap at 10:05 AM on July 26, 2022 [28 favorites]
It does sound like a sort of playful teasing, as some others have described it. But it's also clearly ranged into being hurtful and at least a little sadistic on your parents' part.
This behavior on its own isn't necessarily a problem; it's the family context surrounding it which determine whether it's harmless fun or emotionally hurtful, and in some cases, a continuation of abusive family dynamics. And the main contextual factor is this: was there ever a strong enough foundation of trust and love within the family to begin with? When that baseline exists, it becomes possible to bracket and experience this kind of verbal aggression as a form of play, rather than as the-real-deal aggression meant to hurt and cause emotional injury.
Without that foundation, it becomes impossible to distinguish from real-deal, unbracketed aggression; in abusive family dynamics, framing it as "playful" or "loving" instead becomes a cover for actual attacks, instead of the other way around, as happens in non-abusive dynamics.
Given that you briefly reference "other reasons" for going low-contact for the past 2 years, I suspect your family did not and currently does not have the kind of foundation which could make "playful teasing" actually a form of play. So doing what you need to to protect yourself is definitely justifiable.
posted by obliterati at 10:11 AM on July 26, 2022 [12 favorites]
This behavior on its own isn't necessarily a problem; it's the family context surrounding it which determine whether it's harmless fun or emotionally hurtful, and in some cases, a continuation of abusive family dynamics. And the main contextual factor is this: was there ever a strong enough foundation of trust and love within the family to begin with? When that baseline exists, it becomes possible to bracket and experience this kind of verbal aggression as a form of play, rather than as the-real-deal aggression meant to hurt and cause emotional injury.
Without that foundation, it becomes impossible to distinguish from real-deal, unbracketed aggression; in abusive family dynamics, framing it as "playful" or "loving" instead becomes a cover for actual attacks, instead of the other way around, as happens in non-abusive dynamics.
Given that you briefly reference "other reasons" for going low-contact for the past 2 years, I suspect your family did not and currently does not have the kind of foundation which could make "playful teasing" actually a form of play. So doing what you need to to protect yourself is definitely justifiable.
posted by obliterati at 10:11 AM on July 26, 2022 [12 favorites]
I agree that it sounds like your parents are teasing you in a way they might describe as affectionate. Do you think it's possible that what they find entertaining about the story is not who you were kissing but the fact that Lisa was so interested in it that she thought they ought to know about it? If in their minds it's a story about a nosy neighbor who was overly invested in the activities of the neighborhood teenagers, they might not get why it's painful if they keep bringing it up. They might assume that it's obvious to you that they didn't care and still don't care who you were kissing and that they just think it's funny that Lisa cared.
posted by Redstart at 10:16 AM on July 26, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by Redstart at 10:16 AM on July 26, 2022 [2 favorites]
To them it is no big deal but to you it presses a deep hurt of invalidation.
My guess is, if your invalidation pain is this large then they won’t be the type to “get it” even with an eloquent speech but you could always explain it to them in these terms. “It leaves me feeling unloved, unseen and not valuable. Is this how you want me to feel?”
Work on ways to validate and take care of your Self. In time you may not come to need acknowledgment from others to this depth. In adulthood people validate / invalidate others in equal measure, it’s how we grow and see new perspectives, but the relationship basis should always be one of respect.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 10:28 AM on July 26, 2022
My guess is, if your invalidation pain is this large then they won’t be the type to “get it” even with an eloquent speech but you could always explain it to them in these terms. “It leaves me feeling unloved, unseen and not valuable. Is this how you want me to feel?”
Work on ways to validate and take care of your Self. In time you may not come to need acknowledgment from others to this depth. In adulthood people validate / invalidate others in equal measure, it’s how we grow and see new perspectives, but the relationship basis should always be one of respect.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 10:28 AM on July 26, 2022
Maybe take a look at Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents and see if you vibe with anything?
I came to recommend this. It sounds like this incident is just a symptom of a broader lack of empathy and a refusal to take you seriously as an adult. It's definitely about them, not you, and this book can give you some valuable strategies for recognizing that and dealing with the repercussions in your own life. Going no-contact is definitely a viable option, but you might also find some other tools you could try as well.
posted by rpfields at 10:42 AM on July 26, 2022 [2 favorites]
I came to recommend this. It sounds like this incident is just a symptom of a broader lack of empathy and a refusal to take you seriously as an adult. It's definitely about them, not you, and this book can give you some valuable strategies for recognizing that and dealing with the repercussions in your own life. Going no-contact is definitely a viable option, but you might also find some other tools you could try as well.
posted by rpfields at 10:42 AM on July 26, 2022 [2 favorites]
"4. No harm in distancing yourself. I'd do a slow fade and send only cards. No phone calls, no big announcement."
Yeah...no cards either. And no slow fade. And no explanation.
posted by Billiken at 10:53 AM on July 26, 2022 [3 favorites]
Yeah...no cards either. And no slow fade. And no explanation.
posted by Billiken at 10:53 AM on July 26, 2022 [3 favorites]
1. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting a different result; no.
2. The word that comes to mind is infantilizaton. Your parents have a need to interact with you on a parent:child level rather than an adult:adult level. This type of relationship fills their emotional needs somehow, or is rewarding for them in ways. This could be for any number of reasons, none of which should matter as much as your own clearly stated boundaries.
3. Recognize it for what it is: a refusal or inability to recognize or deal with you as a fully functional adult. It's on them, not you. They have a massive blind spot in their relationships if they cannot recognize and respond to boundary establishment. They are unable to participate in the usual give & take of relationships, and resort to control mechanisms of "let's turn this back into parent:child where I control things more"
4. No. The urge to remove yourself from damaging relationships is a perfectly sane and appropriate and healthy instinct.
posted by Dashy at 10:56 AM on July 26, 2022 [3 favorites]
2. The word that comes to mind is infantilizaton. Your parents have a need to interact with you on a parent:child level rather than an adult:adult level. This type of relationship fills their emotional needs somehow, or is rewarding for them in ways. This could be for any number of reasons, none of which should matter as much as your own clearly stated boundaries.
3. Recognize it for what it is: a refusal or inability to recognize or deal with you as a fully functional adult. It's on them, not you. They have a massive blind spot in their relationships if they cannot recognize and respond to boundary establishment. They are unable to participate in the usual give & take of relationships, and resort to control mechanisms of "let's turn this back into parent:child where I control things more"
4. No. The urge to remove yourself from damaging relationships is a perfectly sane and appropriate and healthy instinct.
posted by Dashy at 10:56 AM on July 26, 2022 [3 favorites]
What they're doing isn't nice, and enjoying your discomfort isn't particularly okay even if that abuse dynamic is really popular in some families. But you've already told them you don't like it and they don't care. You can't make them care.
You can attempt to make them feel awkward, though. Take the fun out of their game. You can either gray rock when they do it, either act like you can't hear it or just go "okay" whenever they bring it up. Escalate, if you're pissed off enough: "You don't even want to know what Lisa actually saw" or "*sigh* Well, at least that isn't as bad as what Lisa was saying about YOU." Gaslight back: "Wait, Lisa said WHAT about me?? Gross, I had no idea. You have to wonder why she was so interested in stories like that about kids..."
But if your parents are unpleasant people you don't want to be around, you can also just decide not to be around them. I don't think there's any point in trying to confront them about it, they'll just pretend to be shocked and DARVO you into you being the bad guy for being angry. If they show a lot of traits of narcissists, that may be something to queue up with your therapist.
posted by Lyn Never at 10:59 AM on July 26, 2022 [3 favorites]
You can attempt to make them feel awkward, though. Take the fun out of their game. You can either gray rock when they do it, either act like you can't hear it or just go "okay" whenever they bring it up. Escalate, if you're pissed off enough: "You don't even want to know what Lisa actually saw" or "*sigh* Well, at least that isn't as bad as what Lisa was saying about YOU." Gaslight back: "Wait, Lisa said WHAT about me?? Gross, I had no idea. You have to wonder why she was so interested in stories like that about kids..."
But if your parents are unpleasant people you don't want to be around, you can also just decide not to be around them. I don't think there's any point in trying to confront them about it, they'll just pretend to be shocked and DARVO you into you being the bad guy for being angry. If they show a lot of traits of narcissists, that may be something to queue up with your therapist.
posted by Lyn Never at 10:59 AM on July 26, 2022 [3 favorites]
This reminds me of my dad. He treats me like I'm still a kid. Over the years I have come to realize that he will never change because though he is a man, now well into old age, he never really grew up himself. So, he has a childlike fascination with crap. And not just crap that I would just a soon forget about, but crap he has misunderstood because of his childishness.
My advice is to limit your contact with your parents as much as possible. And if they ask why, tell them why. But don't expect them to change.
posted by Stuka at 11:03 AM on July 26, 2022 [2 favorites]
My advice is to limit your contact with your parents as much as possible. And if they ask why, tell them why. But don't expect them to change.
posted by Stuka at 11:03 AM on July 26, 2022 [2 favorites]
I find myself agreeing that your parents likely consider this "rough teasing" and find it amusing that it winds you up. Plenty of people struggle to understand that others may feel genuinely hurt by this treatment, perhaps because those doing the teasing don't intend it in a mean or hurtful way. What people can have trouble understanding is that the interpretation of the person being teased determines whether it is hurtful or playful, not the intentions of the person doing the teasing. Different people from different cultures, different families and different natural constitutions can vary widely as to their perception of where that division lies--and of course plenty of people who think it's okay to give it out can't bear a taste of their own medicine.
Sometimes it is possible to get through to a "rough teaser" that you find it genuinely distressing and unwelcome. I have strong historical reasons why I don't like being teased, and have been able to make this off limits with most of my relationship partners over the years. But, as with all things, it's impossible to get through to some people on this, and indeed some will double down on the behavior as a way of convincing themselves that it's okay. In your case, it sounds like it may have entered into the lexicon of "family jokes" that are made again and again. At this point, they may have been saying it for so long that they've come to believe it's true. It likely would be fairly difficult for them to stop what is now a behavior that has become ingrained over many years.
So, yeah, I think there's nothing at all wrong with limiting contact with your parents over this kind of thing. Perhaps it may be useful to let them know the reason for limiting contact so they have at least some opportunity to reflect and consider change. Something along the lines of, "It really bothers me that you continue to tease me over and over and over again about things from long ago when I have told you over and over and over that I don't like it and want you to stop. There's nothing I can do to force you to stop teasing me and the only thing I can to do stop being teased by you is stay away from you. So that's what I'm going to do until or unless you can stop doing it. It bothers me that much, that I'd rather not see you than have to endure your teasing." The ball's firmly in their court at that point, and if they want to interact with their son they have the ability to make that happen.
posted by slkinsey at 11:06 AM on July 26, 2022 [6 favorites]
Sometimes it is possible to get through to a "rough teaser" that you find it genuinely distressing and unwelcome. I have strong historical reasons why I don't like being teased, and have been able to make this off limits with most of my relationship partners over the years. But, as with all things, it's impossible to get through to some people on this, and indeed some will double down on the behavior as a way of convincing themselves that it's okay. In your case, it sounds like it may have entered into the lexicon of "family jokes" that are made again and again. At this point, they may have been saying it for so long that they've come to believe it's true. It likely would be fairly difficult for them to stop what is now a behavior that has become ingrained over many years.
So, yeah, I think there's nothing at all wrong with limiting contact with your parents over this kind of thing. Perhaps it may be useful to let them know the reason for limiting contact so they have at least some opportunity to reflect and consider change. Something along the lines of, "It really bothers me that you continue to tease me over and over and over again about things from long ago when I have told you over and over and over that I don't like it and want you to stop. There's nothing I can do to force you to stop teasing me and the only thing I can to do stop being teased by you is stay away from you. So that's what I'm going to do until or unless you can stop doing it. It bothers me that much, that I'd rather not see you than have to endure your teasing." The ball's firmly in their court at that point, and if they want to interact with their son they have the ability to make that happen.
posted by slkinsey at 11:06 AM on July 26, 2022 [6 favorites]
Your parents are laughing at something that hurts and confuses you, of course you feel angry. They are not listening to you and are treating you like a child.
I would find a time when they are not making the "joke" and everyone's emotions seem pretty neutral and very calmly explain to them that you would like them to stop going on about it, you'd like it to never come up again when you are around. You don't find the matter humorous, and you don't find being teased about it anything but annoying. You are not mad at them or trying to start a fight or anything you would just very much like it to stop bringing the matter up when you are around.
Their reaction to your request will tell you a lot about your options going forward. They either listen, respect your wishes and try their best to not bring it up, or they get defensive bring up the "only joking defense" and you know it's time to start limiting your contact with your parents as they don't respect you as an adult. If they don't agree to try to not bring it up again, I would also take to politely just up and leaving if they do bring the matter up again. Don't say a word, just get up, gather your things and leave, if you are visiting from a distance and staying overnight this may require sleeping in hotels during your visits.
posted by wwax at 11:17 AM on July 26, 2022 [1 favorite]
I would find a time when they are not making the "joke" and everyone's emotions seem pretty neutral and very calmly explain to them that you would like them to stop going on about it, you'd like it to never come up again when you are around. You don't find the matter humorous, and you don't find being teased about it anything but annoying. You are not mad at them or trying to start a fight or anything you would just very much like it to stop bringing the matter up when you are around.
Their reaction to your request will tell you a lot about your options going forward. They either listen, respect your wishes and try their best to not bring it up, or they get defensive bring up the "only joking defense" and you know it's time to start limiting your contact with your parents as they don't respect you as an adult. If they don't agree to try to not bring it up again, I would also take to politely just up and leaving if they do bring the matter up again. Don't say a word, just get up, gather your things and leave, if you are visiting from a distance and staying overnight this may require sleeping in hotels during your visits.
posted by wwax at 11:17 AM on July 26, 2022 [1 favorite]
They have a habit of bringing up the same thing for decades: a spilled drink in a restaurant, a less-than-perfect job done with household chores, a childhood phobia, difficulties with school, failed relationships
OK, you led with the kissing story but tossed this in at the end. This part is very important and people have given a lot of good advice about it.
But the kissing story has an added element of being based on a lie and on your parents being unwilling to accept that.
I had to deal with something similar, not based on a lie but based on my mother’s imaginary narrative of a real event (attempted kidnapping) in my life. As part of therapy I called neighbors from 20 years ago and also obtained the police report, and together with my own memory was able to sort out a somewhat factual account of what happened.
On the big day I called her, and told her I wanted to settle out exactly what happened that day. I told her the details of my research and what I found. And she responded:
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 11:34 AM on July 26, 2022 [29 favorites]
OK, you led with the kissing story but tossed this in at the end. This part is very important and people have given a lot of good advice about it.
But the kissing story has an added element of being based on a lie and on your parents being unwilling to accept that.
I had to deal with something similar, not based on a lie but based on my mother’s imaginary narrative of a real event (attempted kidnapping) in my life. As part of therapy I called neighbors from 20 years ago and also obtained the police report, and together with my own memory was able to sort out a somewhat factual account of what happened.
On the big day I called her, and told her I wanted to settle out exactly what happened that day. I told her the details of my research and what I found. And she responded:
"OK, but I think I’ll keep remembering my way.”Now to be clear she is a professional therapist. We had talked about the conflict for years whenever the story was told and she knew exactly what it meant that I had done all that research, but still:
"OK, but I think I’ll keep remembering my way.”People get attached to their stories, and if I couldn’t get the truth into the skull of someone who helps people navigate this sort of thing for a living, I honestly think that you don’t have much of a chance either.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 11:34 AM on July 26, 2022 [29 favorites]
When I was in tenth grade, my mom accused me of having sex with a boy I liked, a neighbor, who was a year older. I had a huge crush on this kid, but sex was so far out of what I was interested in at that point. Sex was a BIG DEAL for me then, and just not on the horizon. I was so upset at her that it dramatically shifted my relationship with her. She didn't know that then, and doesn't know it now, but I remember thinking, "She doesn't KNOW me because I would NEVER." And I really pulled back from sharing things with her. We were still close and I shared a lot, but I held my cards a lot closer. I'm not sure I had even kissed a boy at that point. Decades later, this is still a foundational story for me about my relationship with my mom.
I wonder if, for you, this question gets at the core of some very important values around friendship. It's interesting that you note, still with relief, that Eric never heard this story and it didn't harm your friendship. I wonder if there's part of you that still feels really vulnerable, like you are still being actively accused of betraying a dear friend.
One of the ways I've dealt with my feelings about my situation with my mom is by talking to other people, friends, about it. That's only happened in the past few years. I wonder if you've had much chance to talk to people about how much the original situation upset you. I wonder what it would mean if you reached out to Eric or Margaret, if you have a way to contact them, to talk about it. Maybe Margaret did kiss a boy who had the same haircut as you. Maybe Eric heard other weird things Lisa said.
Talking to friends, journaling, and therapy could all be good ways to process your feelings about all of this.
I also note that your frustration seems to be related to them believing or not believing you. I have a friend who also gets incredibly angry when people think he's lying. He has ADHD. I wonder if yours could be related to emotional regulation and rejection sensitive dysphoria? This would be really upsetting to me too, if someone kept insisting on something I said wasn't true. My parents used to always tell me I was "too sensitive" and then would tease me a lot. A friend of mine recently commented that it wasn't very sensitive of them to continue teasing me when it obviously upset me so much.
Seems like your parents keep picking at you about a lot of things, and it's deeply hurtful. The thing is, we should get love and care from our parents, our primary attachment figures. And they aren't communicating love. They are communicating rejection, and that sucks. Therapy is also helpful for working through this.
posted by bluedaisy at 1:37 PM on July 26, 2022 [12 favorites]
I wonder if, for you, this question gets at the core of some very important values around friendship. It's interesting that you note, still with relief, that Eric never heard this story and it didn't harm your friendship. I wonder if there's part of you that still feels really vulnerable, like you are still being actively accused of betraying a dear friend.
One of the ways I've dealt with my feelings about my situation with my mom is by talking to other people, friends, about it. That's only happened in the past few years. I wonder if you've had much chance to talk to people about how much the original situation upset you. I wonder what it would mean if you reached out to Eric or Margaret, if you have a way to contact them, to talk about it. Maybe Margaret did kiss a boy who had the same haircut as you. Maybe Eric heard other weird things Lisa said.
Talking to friends, journaling, and therapy could all be good ways to process your feelings about all of this.
I also note that your frustration seems to be related to them believing or not believing you. I have a friend who also gets incredibly angry when people think he's lying. He has ADHD. I wonder if yours could be related to emotional regulation and rejection sensitive dysphoria? This would be really upsetting to me too, if someone kept insisting on something I said wasn't true. My parents used to always tell me I was "too sensitive" and then would tease me a lot. A friend of mine recently commented that it wasn't very sensitive of them to continue teasing me when it obviously upset me so much.
Seems like your parents keep picking at you about a lot of things, and it's deeply hurtful. The thing is, we should get love and care from our parents, our primary attachment figures. And they aren't communicating love. They are communicating rejection, and that sucks. Therapy is also helpful for working through this.
posted by bluedaisy at 1:37 PM on July 26, 2022 [12 favorites]
>They have a habit of bringing up the same thing for decades: a spilled drink in a restaurant, a less-than-perfect job done with household chores, a childhood phobia, difficulties with school, failed relationships. Nothing is ever "over" for them.
I don't know what's wrong with your parents but this is not normal or ok behaviour. Probably their parents did it to them and so they think it's harmless to do to you. It's so dumb and a waste of energy to be dwelling on the past, AND things that are so miniscule. A spilled drink? Non-perfect chores? Really? If they are going to dwell on the past, why not on things like when you won the spelling bee, got straight As, made that soccer goal, learned to ride a bike, etc.?
The kissing thing bothers you in particular because they choose to believe a lie AND they enjoy getting a rise out of you. It's fucked up. I wouldn't bother telling them how you feel because you have and they completely ignored you. Your words and feelings don't matter to them unfortunately. :( You're well within your rights to go full NC if you so choose. Why be around people who can't and won't see you as who you are, and who don't even want to? Would you put up with this behaviour from anyone else? No? So why should you have lower expectations for your parents?
posted by foxjacket at 1:45 PM on July 26, 2022 [3 favorites]
I don't know what's wrong with your parents but this is not normal or ok behaviour. Probably their parents did it to them and so they think it's harmless to do to you. It's so dumb and a waste of energy to be dwelling on the past, AND things that are so miniscule. A spilled drink? Non-perfect chores? Really? If they are going to dwell on the past, why not on things like when you won the spelling bee, got straight As, made that soccer goal, learned to ride a bike, etc.?
The kissing thing bothers you in particular because they choose to believe a lie AND they enjoy getting a rise out of you. It's fucked up. I wouldn't bother telling them how you feel because you have and they completely ignored you. Your words and feelings don't matter to them unfortunately. :( You're well within your rights to go full NC if you so choose. Why be around people who can't and won't see you as who you are, and who don't even want to? Would you put up with this behaviour from anyone else? No? So why should you have lower expectations for your parents?
posted by foxjacket at 1:45 PM on July 26, 2022 [3 favorites]
Your parents are doing ill, and should listen to you and knock it off, and you should avoid discussing things that you have strong emotions about with them.
It is also true that this kind of thing is probably the major tool they have to reinforce relationships, they think that they're demonstrating that you're important, that they remember all these little things about family members, that you've known each other a very long time and love each other anyway. It is disappointing that they won't listen to you about what would actually make you feel happy / loved, but they likely don't have a lot of tools for promoting emotional closeness. There's a good chance that they just don't know what to do when you're having feelings around them, and they can't figure out how to change to get you to stop. Yes, I have a relative who does this.
If that sounds like it might be right, try to remind yourself of that and detach when they start up - you can still get yourself out of the conversation, but try to remember that they may actually be trying to do the opposite of hurt you. Have a set, fairly neutral thing you say, like "you know I hate talking about that" and change the topic. Have a few topics that are safe to discuss with your parents and stick to those as much as possible (it sounds like things in the present, like their hobbies or the weather, are a good bet). You can try modeling other ways of building relationships that you like and they may pick those up over time. Or not! It's not something you can control and the most important thing is to limit contact to a point where you're not getting mad at them all the time. This may be very little, and the amount may change over time, and all of that is also fine.
posted by momus_window at 1:47 PM on July 26, 2022 [3 favorites]
It is also true that this kind of thing is probably the major tool they have to reinforce relationships, they think that they're demonstrating that you're important, that they remember all these little things about family members, that you've known each other a very long time and love each other anyway. It is disappointing that they won't listen to you about what would actually make you feel happy / loved, but they likely don't have a lot of tools for promoting emotional closeness. There's a good chance that they just don't know what to do when you're having feelings around them, and they can't figure out how to change to get you to stop. Yes, I have a relative who does this.
If that sounds like it might be right, try to remind yourself of that and detach when they start up - you can still get yourself out of the conversation, but try to remember that they may actually be trying to do the opposite of hurt you. Have a set, fairly neutral thing you say, like "you know I hate talking about that" and change the topic. Have a few topics that are safe to discuss with your parents and stick to those as much as possible (it sounds like things in the present, like their hobbies or the weather, are a good bet). You can try modeling other ways of building relationships that you like and they may pick those up over time. Or not! It's not something you can control and the most important thing is to limit contact to a point where you're not getting mad at them all the time. This may be very little, and the amount may change over time, and all of that is also fine.
posted by momus_window at 1:47 PM on July 26, 2022 [3 favorites]
There is a line between teasing and bullying that can only be determined by the target (in this case you). My family engages in a lot of teasing, but if ever someone feels like a barb has gone too far, the teaser apologizes, and doesn't repeat. So yes, I agree with everyone that your parents are bullying you.
As to whether you should cut them off--I guess for me this would depend on how much of your time with them involves this - like, would you enjoy a visit with them if you immediately left as soon as they started in with the unwanted teasing? If so, you could tell them, "Look, I don't enjoy teasing of any form, so as soon as you start, I'm leaving." But if you don't even enjoy them much, or if they are generally non-stop teasing or unpleasant in other ways, it doesn't seem worth it.
posted by coffeecat at 2:14 PM on July 26, 2022 [2 favorites]
As to whether you should cut them off--I guess for me this would depend on how much of your time with them involves this - like, would you enjoy a visit with them if you immediately left as soon as they started in with the unwanted teasing? If so, you could tell them, "Look, I don't enjoy teasing of any form, so as soon as you start, I'm leaving." But if you don't even enjoy them much, or if they are generally non-stop teasing or unpleasant in other ways, it doesn't seem worth it.
posted by coffeecat at 2:14 PM on July 26, 2022 [2 favorites]
I'm curious if this is the only embarrassing (true or false) incident from your past that your parents bring up. Do they ever talk about that embarrassing thing you did when you were five? Or that embarrassing thing that happened when you were ten? How is your relationship with them otherwise?
You've received a number of perspectives on what might underlie this. I'm not going to say you shouldn't cut off contact with them, but that's pretty severe, and I'd want to exhaust other options first.
If you can talk about this pattern of behavior without getting worked up, ask them why they insist on bringing it up, and have a conversation about it. Let them explain themselves. Once they do that, let them know that, no fooling, it threatens your continued relationship with them.
posted by adamrice at 2:14 PM on July 26, 2022
You've received a number of perspectives on what might underlie this. I'm not going to say you shouldn't cut off contact with them, but that's pretty severe, and I'd want to exhaust other options first.
If you can talk about this pattern of behavior without getting worked up, ask them why they insist on bringing it up, and have a conversation about it. Let them explain themselves. Once they do that, let them know that, no fooling, it threatens your continued relationship with them.
posted by adamrice at 2:14 PM on July 26, 2022
Your parents enjoy hurting you. Who knows why? That they laughed when you yelled at them to stop hurting you tells you all you need to know. Avoid them, and when you can't, take control of the situation.
Parent: Lisa told us she saw you kissing Margaret....ha ha ha
You: Parent, I am honestly very worried about your memory loss. You keep telling me the same things over and over and over. Is there a lot of dementia in our family I should know about? Is there a family history of Alzheimer's?
Parent: Of course not. I am just talking about what you did when...
You: I am very very concerned about you both.This kind of memory loss at your age...now I'll be worrying about you all the time.
And as soon as you get back home, email them links to a couple of memory tests, senior cognition tests, etc.
This worked on my aunt and uncle when nothing else, including tears, could get them to stop repeatedly asking me the same questions about my divorce. In my experience the only way to deal with this kind of passive aggression is to hand it back to them.
posted by uans at 2:30 PM on July 26, 2022 [18 favorites]
Parent: Lisa told us she saw you kissing Margaret....ha ha ha
You: Parent, I am honestly very worried about your memory loss. You keep telling me the same things over and over and over. Is there a lot of dementia in our family I should know about? Is there a family history of Alzheimer's?
Parent: Of course not. I am just talking about what you did when...
You: I am very very concerned about you both.This kind of memory loss at your age...now I'll be worrying about you all the time.
And as soon as you get back home, email them links to a couple of memory tests, senior cognition tests, etc.
This worked on my aunt and uncle when nothing else, including tears, could get them to stop repeatedly asking me the same questions about my divorce. In my experience the only way to deal with this kind of passive aggression is to hand it back to them.
posted by uans at 2:30 PM on July 26, 2022 [18 favorites]
Ugh, I can totally see how this would be super annoying and distressing. Your parents are being really shitty.
To some extent I think this is infantilizing behavior, or at least... adolescent-izing? They're dwelling on this weird thing from your teens, and when you blush and get upset it makes you seem like a kid again in their eyes. This makes them feel less old for a little while, it takes them back a few decades, and never mind that that their time machine is fueled by their child's humiliation. What they're doing is wrong, but maybe it will help to think of it as kind of a sad, desperate thing on their part. They want to see you as a kid, because that means they're not as close to the grave.
posted by Ursula Hitler at 2:46 PM on July 26, 2022 [4 favorites]
To some extent I think this is infantilizing behavior, or at least... adolescent-izing? They're dwelling on this weird thing from your teens, and when you blush and get upset it makes you seem like a kid again in their eyes. This makes them feel less old for a little while, it takes them back a few decades, and never mind that that their time machine is fueled by their child's humiliation. What they're doing is wrong, but maybe it will help to think of it as kind of a sad, desperate thing on their part. They want to see you as a kid, because that means they're not as close to the grave.
posted by Ursula Hitler at 2:46 PM on July 26, 2022 [4 favorites]
They want to see you as a kid, because that means they're not as close to the grave.
Man, that is insightful and dark! I'd personally try it out before I went no contact? "Dad, is the reason you tease me about something that actually didn't happen when I was a kid because you feel the reaper's breath on your shoulder? If you want to treat me like a kid again, then tell me to eat my vegetables instead, and when we're done with dinner we'll go get ice cream"
posted by The_Vegetables at 2:56 PM on July 26, 2022 [9 favorites]
Man, that is insightful and dark! I'd personally try it out before I went no contact? "Dad, is the reason you tease me about something that actually didn't happen when I was a kid because you feel the reaper's breath on your shoulder? If you want to treat me like a kid again, then tell me to eat my vegetables instead, and when we're done with dinner we'll go get ice cream"
posted by The_Vegetables at 2:56 PM on July 26, 2022 [9 favorites]
I once got an person who looooved to do this "affectionate teasing" to stop it, by saying to them: "I find it deeply concerning that a person who claims to love me gets so much fun out of intentionally upsetting me. Why is this fun for you?"
posted by evilmomlady at 3:19 PM on July 26, 2022 [23 favorites]
posted by evilmomlady at 3:19 PM on July 26, 2022 [23 favorites]
I don’t think you’re out of line to be upset by this. You may want to reset your expectations of what kind of adult relationship is possible with your parents. That may or may not mean changing the frequency of contact — it is possible to spend a lot of time with people you’re wary of, if the situation requires it, without being intimate.
It’s not nice when parents do this. I’m sorry it’s happening to you.
posted by eirias at 3:41 PM on July 26, 2022
It’s not nice when parents do this. I’m sorry it’s happening to you.
posted by eirias at 3:41 PM on July 26, 2022
In my experience the only way to deal with this kind of passive aggression is to hand it back to them.
This is very true, and also an excellent tactic. I once got a frenemy to stop mentioning an embarrassing incident from high school by joking about "the time she peed her pants when the washroom line-up at the high school dance was too long." It never happened, but she was unpopular enough that there were a few people who were eager to "remember" along with me.
This scenario may have applications for dealing with your parents, especially if they are at the age when digs about memory loss land particularly hard.
/evil.
posted by rpfields at 3:49 PM on July 26, 2022 [1 favorite]
This is very true, and also an excellent tactic. I once got a frenemy to stop mentioning an embarrassing incident from high school by joking about "the time she peed her pants when the washroom line-up at the high school dance was too long." It never happened, but she was unpopular enough that there were a few people who were eager to "remember" along with me.
This scenario may have applications for dealing with your parents, especially if they are at the age when digs about memory loss land particularly hard.
/evil.
posted by rpfields at 3:49 PM on July 26, 2022 [1 favorite]
Your parents’ pride might prevent them from acknowledging that their “teasing” you is hurtful - especially considering how long they’ve been doing it AND how much they enjoy it.
In my experience, telling them that it is hurtful is a waste of time or even makes them double-down and think it’s funnier.
My vote is to go grey-rock on them. Don’t tell them see how hurtful it is or how easily they can get under your skin. Don’t give them that sort of power over you.
posted by Neekee at 4:08 PM on July 26, 2022 [1 favorite]
In my experience, telling them that it is hurtful is a waste of time or even makes them double-down and think it’s funnier.
My vote is to go grey-rock on them. Don’t tell them see how hurtful it is or how easily they can get under your skin. Don’t give them that sort of power over you.
posted by Neekee at 4:08 PM on July 26, 2022 [1 favorite]
You don't have to live with this.
I come from a family where a high level of teasing is encouraged, enjoyed, and rewarded, but we all stop when a boundary is set. Your parents could do this, but are choosing not to.
People are capable of changing/stopping hurtful behavior. My father has done this. It took time, but he did it because he loves and values his children more than being "right." Your parents could change, but they are choosing not to.
posted by brookeb at 4:49 PM on July 26, 2022
I come from a family where a high level of teasing is encouraged, enjoyed, and rewarded, but we all stop when a boundary is set. Your parents could do this, but are choosing not to.
People are capable of changing/stopping hurtful behavior. My father has done this. It took time, but he did it because he loves and values his children more than being "right." Your parents could change, but they are choosing not to.
posted by brookeb at 4:49 PM on July 26, 2022
Merriam-Webster definition and meaning of gaslighting, which leaped right into my mind when I read your family history. Very low contact sounds like a good approach to me. But I also agree with many of the insights and suggestions above.
posted by forthright at 5:28 PM on July 26, 2022
posted by forthright at 5:28 PM on July 26, 2022
"Gosh, I hope the people feeding you in your shitty nursing home enjoy hearing these stories as much as you enjoy telling them! WHAT? I was TEASING! You folks love a laugh! Hahaha maybe Lisa will stop by and change your diapers. Hahahaha."
I had to emotionally cut my mother out of my life at a very early age, and it was the healthiest thing I ever did. Sorry you have shitty parents.
posted by cyndigo at 5:34 PM on July 26, 2022 [5 favorites]
I had to emotionally cut my mother out of my life at a very early age, and it was the healthiest thing I ever did. Sorry you have shitty parents.
posted by cyndigo at 5:34 PM on July 26, 2022 [5 favorites]
I want to clarify that when I asked "who knows why?" your parents want to hurt you, it is NOT meant to suggest they have a legitimate reason. They certainly do not try to hurt you because they think you kissed Margaret, for example. I have read your previous posts and it seems your parents have a history of controlling you. They have a history of undermining you and neglecting you. Keeping someone feeling weak and helpless and wrong and stupid is the best form of control. Saying things that upset you is a form of control. They want to see you jump when they push the 'you are bad/wrong/stupid/lying' button.
There is nothing benign in this, in my opinion. All our lives we are told that our parents meant well, want whats best for their children, etc. Unfortunately this is not always true.
Your parents certainly have reasons for why they behave the way they do. These reasons predated your birth and have nothing to do with your worth, your behaviour, with you.
posted by uans at 6:12 PM on July 26, 2022 [1 favorite]
There is nothing benign in this, in my opinion. All our lives we are told that our parents meant well, want whats best for their children, etc. Unfortunately this is not always true.
Your parents certainly have reasons for why they behave the way they do. These reasons predated your birth and have nothing to do with your worth, your behaviour, with you.
posted by uans at 6:12 PM on July 26, 2022 [1 favorite]
I don't have much to add except that my parents are kind people but will engage in this kind of thing sometimes, especially my mother. If I show success in any way, she'll try to cut me down. I don't know if she's even aware she's doing it. My parents were visiting from out of state and I was telling them about how I commute to work by bike--I had bought a nice road bike.
Did she ask even one question about this topic? No. I had barely introduced it--basically just said what I wrote above--when she interrupted with a story about an embarrassing incident that happened maybe 15 years prior, when my bike was stolen. Which completely deflated my topic, which I think was her point: she just didn't want to talk about it, probably because it would mean accepting me making grown-up, adult decisions.
Some people learn their parents are "just people" early in life, and some of us have that knowledge trickled out slowly, year by year, and maybe it never really sinks in fully. Some of us have parents that we think/thought were good, but actually....aren't. It's hard. Hard to accept but hard to nail down in the first place, because we ourselves aren't infallible, either.
posted by zardoz at 6:38 PM on July 26, 2022 [2 favorites]
Did she ask even one question about this topic? No. I had barely introduced it--basically just said what I wrote above--when she interrupted with a story about an embarrassing incident that happened maybe 15 years prior, when my bike was stolen. Which completely deflated my topic, which I think was her point: she just didn't want to talk about it, probably because it would mean accepting me making grown-up, adult decisions.
Some people learn their parents are "just people" early in life, and some of us have that knowledge trickled out slowly, year by year, and maybe it never really sinks in fully. Some of us have parents that we think/thought were good, but actually....aren't. It's hard. Hard to accept but hard to nail down in the first place, because we ourselves aren't infallible, either.
posted by zardoz at 6:38 PM on July 26, 2022 [2 favorites]
Best answer: Oh, wow, your post history is really illuminating for contextualizing this question. You should absolutely stop talking to your parents. They were horrible to you as a kid and continue to treat you disrespectfully. I don't think you should give them any more explanations, it doesn't sound like it will go well. I'm so sorry you're dealing with this.
posted by omnie at 6:41 PM on July 26, 2022 [8 favorites]
posted by omnie at 6:41 PM on July 26, 2022 [8 favorites]
I think it’s pretty clear that your family *does* believe this story — that’s both why they think it’s funny to wind you up about it and why they feel justified in doing so. The more sincerely and genuinely you beg them to stop, the more certain they are that you kissed Margaret and you’re ashamed and defensive and lying about it. And they think it’s fun and morally appropriate to tease you forever about that — they are hoping you confess or at least get reliably upset and heated, which to them is the same thing. Notice they’ve never said they don’t believe Lisa. I bet when you ask directly if they do they raise their eyebrows, wink, and giggle. “Margaret was pretty cute back then, know what I mean?”
What you should do about that depends on what you think of them knowing that that’s where they are permanently at. I don’t think their ridiculous and unkind opinion is likely to change.
posted by shadygrove at 8:21 PM on July 26, 2022
What you should do about that depends on what you think of them knowing that that’s where they are permanently at. I don’t think their ridiculous and unkind opinion is likely to change.
posted by shadygrove at 8:21 PM on July 26, 2022
My husband's stepmother has a habit of engaging in "affectionate teasing" that often did not feel the slightest bit affectionate to me. I reached a breaking point where she and her son kind of ganged up on me at a party, and it felt a lot more like fun performance art for them at my expense.
I did not have the energy for a "when you do this, it bothers me," conversation, and writing her out of my life wasn't an option, so I just withdrew. I didn't talk to her about anything important to me, kept the level of interaction and emotion at about the same level I would for a distant acquaintance.
And after a while, she stopped trying to connect with me with "affectionate teasing." She still does it all the time with the people in her life who enjoy that kind of thing, but she noticed that I wasn't enjoying it, and she stopped trying to engage me in it. She has conversations with me now that I'm sure seem boring to her, but are much more comfortable to me. We're still not close, but it's better than it used to be.
My point is, people who actually want to connect with others through affectionate teasing will stop it if the other person isn't playing along. From what you've written above, you've already made it abundantly clear that you don't like your parents doing this, and they've continued anyway, so this isn't a case of misunderstood affectionate teasing in my opinion. Between that, and your earlier question about the way you were neglected as a child, I feel pretty comfortable saying that refusing to talk to them about anything important is a perfectly reasonable course of action for you.
posted by SockISalmon at 11:00 PM on July 26, 2022 [2 favorites]
I did not have the energy for a "when you do this, it bothers me," conversation, and writing her out of my life wasn't an option, so I just withdrew. I didn't talk to her about anything important to me, kept the level of interaction and emotion at about the same level I would for a distant acquaintance.
And after a while, she stopped trying to connect with me with "affectionate teasing." She still does it all the time with the people in her life who enjoy that kind of thing, but she noticed that I wasn't enjoying it, and she stopped trying to engage me in it. She has conversations with me now that I'm sure seem boring to her, but are much more comfortable to me. We're still not close, but it's better than it used to be.
My point is, people who actually want to connect with others through affectionate teasing will stop it if the other person isn't playing along. From what you've written above, you've already made it abundantly clear that you don't like your parents doing this, and they've continued anyway, so this isn't a case of misunderstood affectionate teasing in my opinion. Between that, and your earlier question about the way you were neglected as a child, I feel pretty comfortable saying that refusing to talk to them about anything important is a perfectly reasonable course of action for you.
posted by SockISalmon at 11:00 PM on July 26, 2022 [2 favorites]
Best answer: I am glad you have found some great advice above. Still, I wanted to share some of my experience. Before I left my husband, we saw a therapist together to deal with a parenting issue. I brought up the fact that my husband was not responsive to problems I brought up. For him, the stuff that bothered me wasn't an issue so he ignored whatever it was. After we discussed it in front of the therapist, the therapist looked at my husband and said, "If your wife says there is a problem, there is a problem. Even if you can't see it or it doesn't bother you, it is still a problem if it is a problem for her."
My husband never understood that I needed him to support me if problem X was an issue for me, even if it did not bother him in the slightest. I don't know your parents. I don't know what you should do. But I wonder what you get out of your relationship with them. Does your mother or father show that they love you in ways that you enjoy? If you need help, do they offer help in a way that is actually useful or accept that you know what you need and try to give you what you are asking for?
Honestly, I think it is hard for humans, generally, to listen to one another and give each other what they are asking for instead of what we often, mistakenly, believe those other people need regardless of their own opinions. Anyway, I learned in Al-Anon that I did not owe my parents anything. That was a shocking idea to me. But Al-Anon points out that we did not ask to be born. That was not our idea. If our parents are abusive or harmful or just a drag, as adults we can take care of ourselves and just stop seeing them. Or see them less. Or take whatever approaches we need to take in order to become more healthy.
Al-Anon is a 12-step fellowship for the friends and family of alcoholics. There is god talk, but you don't need to be religious. I don't know whether you parents drink but they do seem abusive. Perhaps ACA would be a good fellowship for you to simply try out by going to a few meetings, either online or in person. ACA is a 12-step group for Adult Children of Alcoholics & Dysfunctional Families. There are meetings all over the world and in several languages.
Your family sounds like it is fairly dysfunctional. I am sure by listening to others at ACA meetings you would get a better sense of what is healthy and what is not healthy when it comes to family dynamics. I am so sorry your parents are bullies. My dad was, too, and it sucked. After awhile, I refused to put up with it and he reduced his shitty behavior because, in the end, he did not want to lose my visits. Good luck!
posted by Bella Donna at 5:39 AM on July 27, 2022 [1 favorite]
My husband never understood that I needed him to support me if problem X was an issue for me, even if it did not bother him in the slightest. I don't know your parents. I don't know what you should do. But I wonder what you get out of your relationship with them. Does your mother or father show that they love you in ways that you enjoy? If you need help, do they offer help in a way that is actually useful or accept that you know what you need and try to give you what you are asking for?
Honestly, I think it is hard for humans, generally, to listen to one another and give each other what they are asking for instead of what we often, mistakenly, believe those other people need regardless of their own opinions. Anyway, I learned in Al-Anon that I did not owe my parents anything. That was a shocking idea to me. But Al-Anon points out that we did not ask to be born. That was not our idea. If our parents are abusive or harmful or just a drag, as adults we can take care of ourselves and just stop seeing them. Or see them less. Or take whatever approaches we need to take in order to become more healthy.
Al-Anon is a 12-step fellowship for the friends and family of alcoholics. There is god talk, but you don't need to be religious. I don't know whether you parents drink but they do seem abusive. Perhaps ACA would be a good fellowship for you to simply try out by going to a few meetings, either online or in person. ACA is a 12-step group for Adult Children of Alcoholics & Dysfunctional Families. There are meetings all over the world and in several languages.
Your family sounds like it is fairly dysfunctional. I am sure by listening to others at ACA meetings you would get a better sense of what is healthy and what is not healthy when it comes to family dynamics. I am so sorry your parents are bullies. My dad was, too, and it sucked. After awhile, I refused to put up with it and he reduced his shitty behavior because, in the end, he did not want to lose my visits. Good luck!
posted by Bella Donna at 5:39 AM on July 27, 2022 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Thank you for all of your kind answers. Bullying was indeed a big problem in my family. I think from the answers above I realized I wasn't believed about anything, really, with various bad effects. This particular story is just the longest lived and frankly most skeevy. Lots to think about and I appreciate the time everyone took to answer.
posted by chiorlemas at 1:27 PM on July 27, 2022 [9 favorites]
posted by chiorlemas at 1:27 PM on July 27, 2022 [9 favorites]
This might not be the answer you are looking for, but I just want to say to please check out a podcast called Heavyweight. It’s hosted by Jonathan Goldstein who takes on exactly this type of situations, decades long regrets/questions/disagreements, and helps the person get to the bottom of it in endearing and funny and touching ways. Episode 16 is a possibly similar situation. If you ever feel like you want an outsider to help you get to the bottom of it, it could absolutely be an, albeit unconventional, option.
posted by monologish at 4:50 PM on July 27, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by monologish at 4:50 PM on July 27, 2022 [3 favorites]
It’s a shame trying to be the adults that we truly want to be means we can’t indulge in some real shit stirring with bullying asshats like these people.
I have instances of similar bullying stories my parents would trot out for their own amusement. In my moments of reflecting on how insanely immature, psychologically arrested, intellectually wanting and shallow my parents could be, I wish I’d treated them as I had other occasional taunters at school. In your place, I wish I was able to blithely say “oh Lisa was just making up a story to distract from that time she fucked dad in your bed” shrug. Or “oh that time I spilled soup because mum flashed the waiter and things were all weird” yeah, funny as. The horrible thing is with bullies is that retorts of a ludicrous nature work to shut them up sometimes.
But alas. We can’t go back and blithely dish it out. If you could ever be bothered being around these people and they mention this again, you could try a “hey, old lady, your fucking needle’s stuck.”
I left my parental paradigm fifteen years ago, going well until my dad got in contact last year to, … do the exact same shit again. They don’t change. They just don’t.
posted by honey-barbara at 6:15 AM on July 28, 2022 [3 favorites]
I have instances of similar bullying stories my parents would trot out for their own amusement. In my moments of reflecting on how insanely immature, psychologically arrested, intellectually wanting and shallow my parents could be, I wish I’d treated them as I had other occasional taunters at school. In your place, I wish I was able to blithely say “oh Lisa was just making up a story to distract from that time she fucked dad in your bed” shrug. Or “oh that time I spilled soup because mum flashed the waiter and things were all weird” yeah, funny as. The horrible thing is with bullies is that retorts of a ludicrous nature work to shut them up sometimes.
But alas. We can’t go back and blithely dish it out. If you could ever be bothered being around these people and they mention this again, you could try a “hey, old lady, your fucking needle’s stuck.”
I left my parental paradigm fifteen years ago, going well until my dad got in contact last year to, … do the exact same shit again. They don’t change. They just don’t.
posted by honey-barbara at 6:15 AM on July 28, 2022 [3 favorites]
Yes, it's bullying. They like to see that they can cause you discomfort; they get a feeling of power/ control that they equate with winning. You've assessed it well and responded appropriately so give yourself credit.
My Mom did exactly this, turning the story of how I got a department award and a watch at HS graduation into an unkind anecdote about how she was so surprised that I won an award. I started saying Mom, didn't you leave out the end? The end of the story is supposed to be "and we were so proud". and it helped because it embarrassed her with truth and I did it in front of anybody and everybody.
I think you want to be a person who has at least some contact, and that's okay. Call them out, every time. You know, it's so weird that you tell an inaccurate story from my youth to try to make me feel bad. It makes you look unkind/ like jerks/ mean/ bad parents. it's so weird that you seldom believe me or have faith in me; it's really hard to deal with that. Your parenting style is harmful.
I visited my Mom, but always, always, with an escape plan, a rental care, a way to get to the bus station, etc. I feel better about myself as a daughter, and I gained some surprising respect from her.
posted by theora55 at 3:21 PM on July 28, 2022 [4 favorites]
My Mom did exactly this, turning the story of how I got a department award and a watch at HS graduation into an unkind anecdote about how she was so surprised that I won an award. I started saying Mom, didn't you leave out the end? The end of the story is supposed to be "and we were so proud". and it helped because it embarrassed her with truth and I did it in front of anybody and everybody.
I think you want to be a person who has at least some contact, and that's okay. Call them out, every time. You know, it's so weird that you tell an inaccurate story from my youth to try to make me feel bad. It makes you look unkind/ like jerks/ mean/ bad parents. it's so weird that you seldom believe me or have faith in me; it's really hard to deal with that. Your parenting style is harmful.
I visited my Mom, but always, always, with an escape plan, a rental care, a way to get to the bus station, etc. I feel better about myself as a daughter, and I gained some surprising respect from her.
posted by theora55 at 3:21 PM on July 28, 2022 [4 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
2. Closest I can get is "fabulation," but it's not quite that -- they're not even the ones making up the story.
3. I get a sense that this situation, legitimately frustrating and demoralizing though it is, may be the tip of a larger iceberg. Maybe take a look at Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents and see if you vibe with anything?
4. Parents who believe a lying neighbor over you, mock you repeatedly over the lie, and refuse to stop when directly asked to? Nah, an information diet from you to them is not wrongheaded at all. They certainly don't seem to be adding anything positive to your life.
posted by humbug at 9:24 AM on July 26, 2022 [17 favorites]