Married managers having an affair?
June 25, 2022 8:29 PM Subscribe
I've written about Fergus before and well, here we go again. Snowflakes inside...
I work with "Fergus", who is married and supposedly known for having affairs at the workplace.
He's always trying to get with female coworkers. He tries to be good friends with his targets at first and then escalates the situation. So right now he's with Melissa (new manager, married with a kid) and it seems that she's reciprocating. He's fixated on her big time. She seems to really enjoy his attention. They are constantly together. All I see is he's going to mess up her life and that poor kid's life.
Melissa will lie and say that she is "running an errand" but we see her get in Fergus's truck. It’s amusing because they’re talking about their spouses but it’s a pathetic attempt at covering up whatever is going on between them. Fergus has never mentioned his wife by name at all during all the years I’ve been with the company and he finally did when it was just Melissa and I in the room.
Fergus used to be with another coworker "Shelly". She left the company and broke off her engagement supposedly because of him.
People might be inclined to brush it off as them being just friends. But this guy is a predator. He's extremely manipulative in a sociopathic kind of way.
Fergus will also make up lies and tries to pit Melissa and I against one another. He blurted out that I was giving her the middle finger. I wasn't- I was in the middle of writing a report. I told him to stop it. I think he says other stuff though because Melissa will seem upset with me though I don't know why.
I am tempted to say something to Melissa and warn her but she seems to be infatuated with him big time and I'm not that close to her.
We have to work together so I can't ignore or avoid him completely. It's just awkward and uncomfortable.
I'm upset and maybe even a little jealous at the fact that he seems nicer towards her. He acts hostile towards me at times and bullies me, yet gaslights and somehow I'm the one to blame.
When I started he and I would be talking or laughing and people would make comments, yet say nothing about him going to lunch with Melissa. They notice it, yet no one says anything to their face.
When he was out to lunch with her, we were supposed to have a meeting with my boss. I had to present my end of things and cover for him. When it begins to impact my work and job, I have an issue with it. Yet, he seems to get away with stuff that no one else would be able to get away with.
Do guys like this ever get caught? Why make it so obvious? We seem them coming and going- why not be more discreet? Why do they get away with it? Why does no one say anything to them?
I work with "Fergus", who is married and supposedly known for having affairs at the workplace.
He's always trying to get with female coworkers. He tries to be good friends with his targets at first and then escalates the situation. So right now he's with Melissa (new manager, married with a kid) and it seems that she's reciprocating. He's fixated on her big time. She seems to really enjoy his attention. They are constantly together. All I see is he's going to mess up her life and that poor kid's life.
Melissa will lie and say that she is "running an errand" but we see her get in Fergus's truck. It’s amusing because they’re talking about their spouses but it’s a pathetic attempt at covering up whatever is going on between them. Fergus has never mentioned his wife by name at all during all the years I’ve been with the company and he finally did when it was just Melissa and I in the room.
Fergus used to be with another coworker "Shelly". She left the company and broke off her engagement supposedly because of him.
People might be inclined to brush it off as them being just friends. But this guy is a predator. He's extremely manipulative in a sociopathic kind of way.
Fergus will also make up lies and tries to pit Melissa and I against one another. He blurted out that I was giving her the middle finger. I wasn't- I was in the middle of writing a report. I told him to stop it. I think he says other stuff though because Melissa will seem upset with me though I don't know why.
I am tempted to say something to Melissa and warn her but she seems to be infatuated with him big time and I'm not that close to her.
We have to work together so I can't ignore or avoid him completely. It's just awkward and uncomfortable.
I'm upset and maybe even a little jealous at the fact that he seems nicer towards her. He acts hostile towards me at times and bullies me, yet gaslights and somehow I'm the one to blame.
When I started he and I would be talking or laughing and people would make comments, yet say nothing about him going to lunch with Melissa. They notice it, yet no one says anything to their face.
When he was out to lunch with her, we were supposed to have a meeting with my boss. I had to present my end of things and cover for him. When it begins to impact my work and job, I have an issue with it. Yet, he seems to get away with stuff that no one else would be able to get away with.
Do guys like this ever get caught? Why make it so obvious? We seem them coming and going- why not be more discreet? Why do they get away with it? Why does no one say anything to them?
The question isn’t whether they’ll get caught, it’s whether there will be any notable consequences when they do. Since the answer to that is usually “no” they don’t worry too much about getting caught.
As a society we rely a lot on shame for keeping people’s behavior in check. We are woefully ill-equipped to deal with people who have none.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 9:51 PM on June 25, 2022 [15 favorites]
As a society we rely a lot on shame for keeping people’s behavior in check. We are woefully ill-equipped to deal with people who have none.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 9:51 PM on June 25, 2022 [15 favorites]
Re: saying something to Melissa: the best you can do is drop a sarcastic aside “oh is he hitting on you too? Won’t be the first office side piece he’s fished. So anyways…” or don’t even make it about her just make some comment how he’s boneing his way through the office.
This lets her know it ain’t so special as all that. What she does with it is up to her.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 9:58 PM on June 25, 2022 [5 favorites]
This lets her know it ain’t so special as all that. What she does with it is up to her.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 9:58 PM on June 25, 2022 [5 favorites]
Most of this is a big old whatever and just not any of your business. You'll be a lot happier when you learn to ignore this kind of workplace tomfoolery.
posted by praemunire at 10:41 PM on June 25, 2022 [63 favorites]
posted by praemunire at 10:41 PM on June 25, 2022 [63 favorites]
A former mentor of mine used to say, “All chickens come home to roost.” (She was from a southern part of the US where folksy sayings are common.) Her guidance taught me an invaluable work lesson: stay out of it. These situations have a way of resolving themselves.
posted by WaspEnterprises at 11:18 PM on June 25, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by WaspEnterprises at 11:18 PM on June 25, 2022 [5 favorites]
I would not recommend you ignore your supervisor lying about you and attempting to gaslight you. That is absolutely your business. We generally don't advise abuse victims to 'learn to ignore it', and this is abusive behavior. That is not normal and not acceptable to me, though there is probably not much you can do to make this jerk act better.
I would start looking for a new job immediately. Yes to cultivating any relationship you may have with grandbosses, and consider keeping records of every time you see him lie about you, or skip his responsibilities and lie about why, so you have some defense ready when he throws you under the bus.
posted by SaltySalticid at 4:51 AM on June 26, 2022 [8 favorites]
I would start looking for a new job immediately. Yes to cultivating any relationship you may have with grandbosses, and consider keeping records of every time you see him lie about you, or skip his responsibilities and lie about why, so you have some defense ready when he throws you under the bus.
posted by SaltySalticid at 4:51 AM on June 26, 2022 [8 favorites]
He may get caught, but unless your company has a very specific workplace relationship policy banning employee relationships, nothing is likely to come of it. Melissa is a grown up and knows he is married and can make her own (terrible!) decisions about having an affair. I definitely would not advise talking to her about any of this.
I don’t think you need to go out of your way to cover for him, though. If he doesn’t show up to something because he is off with. Melissa you can handle it exactly as you would if you didn’t know why he was missing. “I know it was on his calendar, no idea why he’s not here, but I saw him leave the office a few minutes ago. Do you want to go ahead without him or reschedule?” is fine.
Document however he’s messing up your actual work and handle that with your boss. The reason he’s messing it up doesn’t actually matter except to the extent it’s personally aggravating.
posted by Stacey at 5:17 AM on June 26, 2022 [20 favorites]
I don’t think you need to go out of your way to cover for him, though. If he doesn’t show up to something because he is off with. Melissa you can handle it exactly as you would if you didn’t know why he was missing. “I know it was on his calendar, no idea why he’s not here, but I saw him leave the office a few minutes ago. Do you want to go ahead without him or reschedule?” is fine.
Document however he’s messing up your actual work and handle that with your boss. The reason he’s messing it up doesn’t actually matter except to the extent it’s personally aggravating.
posted by Stacey at 5:17 AM on June 26, 2022 [20 favorites]
Ask A Manager seems to post about this a lot; you might get some advice there.
In some ways, this is a classic "missing stair" issue, but the way the missing stair gets fixed is not through the whispernet of telling the other stairs to step up their game. It's telling the carpenter (boss) how the missing stair has impacted you, personally, and your work. You mention jealousy -- if Fergus tried this business on you (and if you trust your HR), I would go to them first, not Melissa.
My own take on workplace drama is one I think I saw here a few years ago: not your circus, not your monkeys. I am also a fan of the phrase "don't be a drama llama."
The only piece of this that impacts you directly are these two lines:
He acts hostile towards me at times and bullies me, yet gaslights and somehow I'm the one to blame.
we were supposed to have a meeting with my boss. I had to present my end of things and cover for him.
These would be massive problems regardless of the alleged affair. Are you documenting these incidents of bullying and gaslighting and bizarre accusations, like the part about you flipping M off? Are you upfront with your boss about how his absences are impacting your ability to get your work done? I like Stacey's language on this.
I would not recommend you ignore your supervisor lying about you and attempting to gaslight you.
I read this as Fergus and lawgirl are all on the same level in this company. If there is a power differential, that only amplifies the problem.
posted by basalganglia at 5:37 AM on June 26, 2022 [8 favorites]
In some ways, this is a classic "missing stair" issue, but the way the missing stair gets fixed is not through the whispernet of telling the other stairs to step up their game. It's telling the carpenter (boss) how the missing stair has impacted you, personally, and your work. You mention jealousy -- if Fergus tried this business on you (and if you trust your HR), I would go to them first, not Melissa.
My own take on workplace drama is one I think I saw here a few years ago: not your circus, not your monkeys. I am also a fan of the phrase "don't be a drama llama."
The only piece of this that impacts you directly are these two lines:
He acts hostile towards me at times and bullies me, yet gaslights and somehow I'm the one to blame.
we were supposed to have a meeting with my boss. I had to present my end of things and cover for him.
These would be massive problems regardless of the alleged affair. Are you documenting these incidents of bullying and gaslighting and bizarre accusations, like the part about you flipping M off? Are you upfront with your boss about how his absences are impacting your ability to get your work done? I like Stacey's language on this.
I would not recommend you ignore your supervisor lying about you and attempting to gaslight you.
I read this as Fergus and lawgirl are all on the same level in this company. If there is a power differential, that only amplifies the problem.
posted by basalganglia at 5:37 AM on June 26, 2022 [8 favorites]
I am tempted to say something to Melissa and warn her
I'm not sure what you could warn her of. I assure you that she already knows she is married.
men who pursue married women at work are a particular type. they are not all exactly the same or all exactly as bad as each other, but they are all of that type. she knows he is of that type because she knows she is married and she knows he is pursuing her. you can't warn people away from knowingly wanting bad things.
if you suspected she was just enduring his attentions out of fear or powerlessness and wanted to help her avoid or report him, that would be a different thing. but you seem distressed that she is voluntarily doing whatever she's doing with him. and if that is really what's going on, she knows what she's doing.
posted by queenofbithynia at 6:27 AM on June 26, 2022 [5 favorites]
Response by poster: @ St. Peepsburg - I actually said something like that once. Melissa stated how Fergus was joking around and locked her in this vestibule. I spoke up and said, "He used to do that to me too!"
"Marge", an older coworker who has been there for years, was like, "Lawgirl..." kind of like to warn me not to say anything or stop talking. It was weird.
I think Marge knows and turns the blind eye because she doesn't want to get stuck doing someone's job. She even said, "I don't want anyone leaving because that means more work for us."
_______________
I know it's not any of my business, but Melissa seemed so different compared to when she started in the position. Fergus poisons the well and I'm frustrated by that. I'm thinking that if I had better social skills or if I was friendlier with Melissa in the beginning, things would have been different maybe. There's this sort of "divide" now that there wasn't before.
posted by lawgirl at 2:16 PM on June 26, 2022
"Marge", an older coworker who has been there for years, was like, "Lawgirl..." kind of like to warn me not to say anything or stop talking. It was weird.
I think Marge knows and turns the blind eye because she doesn't want to get stuck doing someone's job. She even said, "I don't want anyone leaving because that means more work for us."
_______________
I know it's not any of my business, but Melissa seemed so different compared to when she started in the position. Fergus poisons the well and I'm frustrated by that. I'm thinking that if I had better social skills or if I was friendlier with Melissa in the beginning, things would have been different maybe. There's this sort of "divide" now that there wasn't before.
posted by lawgirl at 2:16 PM on June 26, 2022
If he fails to show up for a meeting again, say, "Ferg was scheduled to be here but let's do what we can" Or, I'll give you my end of things, and Ferg can give you his when he arrives/later." If he asks you to cover for him, tell him you did that last time and that was his only freebie.
He can't gaslight you if you don't point out his behavior. Be super sweet to him. If he tell someone you did something like flip the bird, laugh and say, "He loves to joke around, doesn't he?"
"Time wounds all heels." -- attributed to Ann Landers, Dorothy Parker, Groucho Marx, John Lennon, and many others.
posted by wryly at 2:29 PM on June 26, 2022
He can't gaslight you if you don't point out his behavior. Be super sweet to him. If he tell someone you did something like flip the bird, laugh and say, "He loves to joke around, doesn't he?"
"Time wounds all heels." -- attributed to Ann Landers, Dorothy Parker, Groucho Marx, John Lennon, and many others.
posted by wryly at 2:29 PM on June 26, 2022
Legit none of your business and unless you are one of their direct supervisor or your have some kind of fantastic relationship with someone high up, you just have to live with it.
posted by elvissa at 5:48 PM on June 26, 2022
posted by elvissa at 5:48 PM on June 26, 2022
This sounds awful. Awful for you to endure without being able to help, as well as just awful behaviour.
I know you’re not directly asking if you should intervene, but the “divide” sounds to me like Fergus has already primed this woman to disbelieve any warning you could give anyway — a classic “my crazy ex” manoeuvre (even though you’re not a literal ex). So, it’d be doomed if you did. We all get stupid and credulous towards the objects of our infatuation, so you could probably never have kept her safe. Don’t beat yourself up over it.
He sounds like a nasty manipulator that you may need to protect yourself from in general. The best defences against such people are things you likely aim for anyway — good relationships with other colleagues, and a reputation for being reliable, trustworthy and a person of integrity. Records, as per SaltySalticid and Stacey’s suggestions, could be useful for this too. Keep them factual, no opinions. (Given your username, that’s probably second nature anyway.)
How do people get away with this? Well, it’s probably your male colleagues who shoulder a lot of the blame for this one. There’s no way they should find this acceptable, and they would be at the least risk if they were to confront him or blow the whistle on it to superiors. It’s easier for him to portray women as somehow involved and ignorable: jealous, bitter, jilted… Men are less vulnerable in this specific situation.
I also agree with Stacey, this loser does not deserve you covering for him. I’d be pre-composing innocent-sounding phrases like, “I’m a bit concerned he might have forgotten, I did see him going for lunch with M…” in case of future incidents. But again, as a male I’d have way less at risk from any fallout, so there’s no shame in a simple, “I’m sorry, I just don’t know where Fergus is.” He’s earned a bit of sweating in front of the boss, in lieu of those chickens coming home just yet.
posted by breakfast burrito at 6:04 PM on June 26, 2022 [1 favorite]
I know you’re not directly asking if you should intervene, but the “divide” sounds to me like Fergus has already primed this woman to disbelieve any warning you could give anyway — a classic “my crazy ex” manoeuvre (even though you’re not a literal ex). So, it’d be doomed if you did. We all get stupid and credulous towards the objects of our infatuation, so you could probably never have kept her safe. Don’t beat yourself up over it.
He sounds like a nasty manipulator that you may need to protect yourself from in general. The best defences against such people are things you likely aim for anyway — good relationships with other colleagues, and a reputation for being reliable, trustworthy and a person of integrity. Records, as per SaltySalticid and Stacey’s suggestions, could be useful for this too. Keep them factual, no opinions. (Given your username, that’s probably second nature anyway.)
How do people get away with this? Well, it’s probably your male colleagues who shoulder a lot of the blame for this one. There’s no way they should find this acceptable, and they would be at the least risk if they were to confront him or blow the whistle on it to superiors. It’s easier for him to portray women as somehow involved and ignorable: jealous, bitter, jilted… Men are less vulnerable in this specific situation.
I also agree with Stacey, this loser does not deserve you covering for him. I’d be pre-composing innocent-sounding phrases like, “I’m a bit concerned he might have forgotten, I did see him going for lunch with M…” in case of future incidents. But again, as a male I’d have way less at risk from any fallout, so there’s no shame in a simple, “I’m sorry, I just don’t know where Fergus is.” He’s earned a bit of sweating in front of the boss, in lieu of those chickens coming home just yet.
posted by breakfast burrito at 6:04 PM on June 26, 2022 [1 favorite]
IANAL, but I have experience with sexual harassment in a couple of workplaces. If Fergus is your manager, or is in your supervisory chain, you may wish to review EEOC descriptions of sexual harassment.
Unfortunately, in scenarios like this, in which the company leadership obviously tolerates a lot of drama, the best course of action is usually to find another job asap. And be blazingly honest in your exit interview, through the lens of company liability. Life is too short to put up with drama like this.
posted by ImproviseOrDie at 10:03 AM on June 27, 2022 [1 favorite]
Unfortunately, in scenarios like this, in which the company leadership obviously tolerates a lot of drama, the best course of action is usually to find another job asap. And be blazingly honest in your exit interview, through the lens of company liability. Life is too short to put up with drama like this.
posted by ImproviseOrDie at 10:03 AM on June 27, 2022 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
anyway... they make it obvious because it's part of the power trip. "I'm a big sexy big shot, I do what I want."
Say nothing about it to Melissa, but be friendly and kind to her. Do what you can to cultivate your grandboss, so that if it comes down to it, you'll have banked credibility there when and if you have to tell the truth about Fergus.
Oh and yes, they often do get caught. But in the cases I've seen, it will officially be for something else, not for consensual affairs.
posted by fingersandtoes at 8:41 PM on June 25, 2022 [1 favorite]