Ratio for cold brew that equals a shot of espresso?
June 11, 2022 2:14 AM Subscribe
How much coffee to how much water produces the equivalent of a shot of espresso? Alternatively, how much coffee to how much water produces 250ml of liquid that is as strong as a shot of espresso? Grams and ml measurements appreciated.
I have this Hario cold brew jug and I use pre-ground coffee from the supermarket (but, like, not the cheap stuff).
I already know I need to buy coarser-ground coffee because I get a lot of grounds seeping into the water as is, but I'm trying to make this process as low entry bar as possible right now, hence supermarket coffee.
The internet is full of recommended ratios, including the cold brew jug page I linked to above, but pretty much every one of these recipes ends with "dilute to taste". The taste is not an issue for me, I like the taste stronger, I like it weaker. What I do want to know is approx how much caffeine I'm consuming. If I buy a regular flat white from a coffee shop, it generally has one shot of espresso. I want to know how to make the equivalent cup of cold brew.
Ideal scenario:
- strainer basket on digital scale
- spoon in Xg of ground coffee
- place in jug with 1L water
- leave overnight
- take out basket
- pour 30ml of coffee liquid (shot glass as measuring device)
- add water to fill cup
- drink
Or same as above, but pour 250ml of coffee liquid and do not add anything else.
It doesn't have to be exact, just ballpark. Is it even possible?
Bonus question for people using a similar jug: what's your technique? Filling the jug with water first, putting the basket in on top? Then kinda swirling it? Or pouring the water over the basket through the coffee? I feel like any agitation makes the grounds seep through even more, but if I don't there's completely dry/unextracted coffee in the centre of the basket, but again that could be the grind.
I have this Hario cold brew jug and I use pre-ground coffee from the supermarket (but, like, not the cheap stuff).
I already know I need to buy coarser-ground coffee because I get a lot of grounds seeping into the water as is, but I'm trying to make this process as low entry bar as possible right now, hence supermarket coffee.
The internet is full of recommended ratios, including the cold brew jug page I linked to above, but pretty much every one of these recipes ends with "dilute to taste". The taste is not an issue for me, I like the taste stronger, I like it weaker. What I do want to know is approx how much caffeine I'm consuming. If I buy a regular flat white from a coffee shop, it generally has one shot of espresso. I want to know how to make the equivalent cup of cold brew.
Ideal scenario:
- strainer basket on digital scale
- spoon in Xg of ground coffee
- place in jug with 1L water
- leave overnight
- take out basket
- pour 30ml of coffee liquid (shot glass as measuring device)
- add water to fill cup
- drink
Or same as above, but pour 250ml of coffee liquid and do not add anything else.
It doesn't have to be exact, just ballpark. Is it even possible?
Bonus question for people using a similar jug: what's your technique? Filling the jug with water first, putting the basket in on top? Then kinda swirling it? Or pouring the water over the basket through the coffee? I feel like any agitation makes the grounds seep through even more, but if I don't there's completely dry/unextracted coffee in the centre of the basket, but again that could be the grind.
I punted this question to the owner of a local coffee shop that makes and sells cold brew concentrate.
They said that if your goal is to match the amount of caffeine, the only way to be sure is to test your brews using a TDS (Total Dissolved Solids) meter.
As follow-up, I Googled and found this science-y post: https://fellowproducts.com/blogs/learn/the-beginner-s-guide-to-total-dissolved-solids-and-coffee
posted by D.Billy at 7:36 AM on June 11, 2022
They said that if your goal is to match the amount of caffeine, the only way to be sure is to test your brews using a TDS (Total Dissolved Solids) meter.
As follow-up, I Googled and found this science-y post: https://fellowproducts.com/blogs/learn/the-beginner-s-guide-to-total-dissolved-solids-and-coffee
posted by D.Billy at 7:36 AM on June 11, 2022
To learn about making better coffee, I really recommend James Hoffmann's youtube channel where he covers everything including brew ratios.
The first 2 steps are: Buy better coffee, nothing you find on a supermarket shelf is going to be fresh, and get yourself a grinder, even the cheapest grinder is a giant step up from stale pre-ground coffee.
posted by Lanark at 9:30 AM on June 11, 2022 [1 favorite]
The first 2 steps are: Buy better coffee, nothing you find on a supermarket shelf is going to be fresh, and get yourself a grinder, even the cheapest grinder is a giant step up from stale pre-ground coffee.
posted by Lanark at 9:30 AM on June 11, 2022 [1 favorite]
I think measuring the TDS will inform you about the overall extraction of your coffee, but that is separate from the extraction of caffeine. I believe James Hoffman said somewhere that caffeine is one of the more water soluble compounds in coffee, meaning that a higher TDS extraction may still have the same amount of caffeine as a lower TDS extraction because the caffeine is extracted faster than the other stuff in the grounds.
According to the Kruve article above, 60 ml of cold brew and 30 ml of espresso are, within the margin of error, about the same. Of course it depends on the exact ratios used, but if you're following any kind of standard cold brew recipe you'll be in the ballpark because of the "caffeine is extracted quickly" idea above.
posted by papayaninja at 12:31 PM on June 11, 2022
According to the Kruve article above, 60 ml of cold brew and 30 ml of espresso are, within the margin of error, about the same. Of course it depends on the exact ratios used, but if you're following any kind of standard cold brew recipe you'll be in the ballpark because of the "caffeine is extracted quickly" idea above.
posted by papayaninja at 12:31 PM on June 11, 2022
Best answer: There's pretty wide variability in how much caffeine is in a a shot of espresso, depending on the beans, the roast, the extraction time, etc. Here's a study.
I think your best bet is simply to assume the caffeine extraction percentage is the same for both methods (caffeine is highly soluble in hot water and still quite soluble in cold water, but you're leaving it in there for a long time, so it probably works out about the same). A standard shot is 7g, a double shot is 14g.
So brewing your cold brew with 14g per 100ml of water will give you roughly one double shot worth of caffeine in 100ml of liquid. Adjust the volume as desired, but it probably makes more sense to stick to a larger volume rather than trying to cold brew 14g in 30ml, where you may get less extraction because of the very high concentration. It may be easier just to brew it at the final concentration you desire.
posted by ssg at 1:25 PM on June 11, 2022
I think your best bet is simply to assume the caffeine extraction percentage is the same for both methods (caffeine is highly soluble in hot water and still quite soluble in cold water, but you're leaving it in there for a long time, so it probably works out about the same). A standard shot is 7g, a double shot is 14g.
So brewing your cold brew with 14g per 100ml of water will give you roughly one double shot worth of caffeine in 100ml of liquid. Adjust the volume as desired, but it probably makes more sense to stick to a larger volume rather than trying to cold brew 14g in 30ml, where you may get less extraction because of the very high concentration. It may be easier just to brew it at the final concentration you desire.
posted by ssg at 1:25 PM on June 11, 2022
Best answer: We do our cold brew* dilution by weight of beans.
We coarsely grind 150g of beans and brew it in 1.7l of water. After filtering, we get about 1.5l of concentrate back; so each 100ml of concentrate has about 10g of bean power in it.
Typically for a 500ml go cup I'll use 120ml of concentrate and 360ml of water, or a 1:3 dilution. This produces is flavourful but not overpoweringly strong. At 12g of bean power, this is like a double.
For an americano I'll do about 70ml of concentrate plus 100ml of water or so, making a single americano with a rich, strong flavour. Sometimes I'll add chocolate....
For espresso I just take it straight up, however much I want.
Anyway, weighing your beans and measuring your water, and using the same cold brew technique gives you a consistent extract that you can then use to create drinks of whatever strength you want.
* It's more a hybrid; I add 96C water to the ground beans in a gallon glass jug and give it a swirl then let it sit on the counter 24 hours.
posted by seanmpuckett at 4:05 PM on June 11, 2022
We coarsely grind 150g of beans and brew it in 1.7l of water. After filtering, we get about 1.5l of concentrate back; so each 100ml of concentrate has about 10g of bean power in it.
Typically for a 500ml go cup I'll use 120ml of concentrate and 360ml of water, or a 1:3 dilution. This produces is flavourful but not overpoweringly strong. At 12g of bean power, this is like a double.
For an americano I'll do about 70ml of concentrate plus 100ml of water or so, making a single americano with a rich, strong flavour. Sometimes I'll add chocolate....
For espresso I just take it straight up, however much I want.
Anyway, weighing your beans and measuring your water, and using the same cold brew technique gives you a consistent extract that you can then use to create drinks of whatever strength you want.
* It's more a hybrid; I add 96C water to the ground beans in a gallon glass jug and give it a swirl then let it sit on the counter 24 hours.
posted by seanmpuckett at 4:05 PM on June 11, 2022
Best answer: General coffee wisdom is that cold brew extracts about 80% of the caffeine that an equal weight hot brew would extract. Assuming a strong espresso pull of 9g and a standard 30ml cup then you want 11g per 30ml or 363g in your (almost) 1L of water.
FYI - people do this all the time. It is called "Cold Brew Concentrate."
posted by forbiddencabinet at 4:38 PM on June 11, 2022
FYI - people do this all the time. It is called "Cold Brew Concentrate."
posted by forbiddencabinet at 4:38 PM on June 11, 2022
I have done several years of measurements using the D.U.J. methodology (drink until jittery).
When I make hot brew coffee I start feel a little uncomfortable if I drink two mugs in quick succession (total about 700 ML). When I make cold brew coffee, I have not gotten jittery, no matter how much I drink. I've concluded that the cold brew has significantly less caffeine, although it's possible some other compound is involved.
I make both the cold brew and the hot coffee with the same coffee: dark roast, ground coarsely at home, prepared in a 1 liter Bodum coffee press.
For hot brew, I use 25-30 grams of coffee & 1 liter of boiling water, and brew for 6 minutes.
For cold brew, I use 45-50 grams of coffee & 1 liter of cold tap water, put both in the Bodum, and let it sit for 12 to 24 hours before pressing. I drink it straight up with a little simple syrup and milk. No dilution.
I prefer the cold brew. It is much less acidic, and as I said above, I can drink it all day without getting jittery. I would be very interested in knowing how much caffeine it has relative to the hot brew I make, but it appears there's so much variation between coffee beans and brew setups that there's no general rule. I'd need a way to measure it, and that appears to involve expensive lab equipment.
If you can't get an exact number, maybe you could just increase the strength of the cold brew until achieve D.U.J. equivalency.
posted by Winnie the Proust at 5:09 PM on June 11, 2022 [1 favorite]
When I make hot brew coffee I start feel a little uncomfortable if I drink two mugs in quick succession (total about 700 ML). When I make cold brew coffee, I have not gotten jittery, no matter how much I drink. I've concluded that the cold brew has significantly less caffeine, although it's possible some other compound is involved.
I make both the cold brew and the hot coffee with the same coffee: dark roast, ground coarsely at home, prepared in a 1 liter Bodum coffee press.
For hot brew, I use 25-30 grams of coffee & 1 liter of boiling water, and brew for 6 minutes.
For cold brew, I use 45-50 grams of coffee & 1 liter of cold tap water, put both in the Bodum, and let it sit for 12 to 24 hours before pressing. I drink it straight up with a little simple syrup and milk. No dilution.
I prefer the cold brew. It is much less acidic, and as I said above, I can drink it all day without getting jittery. I would be very interested in knowing how much caffeine it has relative to the hot brew I make, but it appears there's so much variation between coffee beans and brew setups that there's no general rule. I'd need a way to measure it, and that appears to involve expensive lab equipment.
If you can't get an exact number, maybe you could just increase the strength of the cold brew until achieve D.U.J. equivalency.
posted by Winnie the Proust at 5:09 PM on June 11, 2022 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Turns out it's just as sciencey as I thought! When I have the capacity I'm definitely diving into the research.
For right now, unless I'm completely off base with my very fudged figures based on above suggestions, I think I can steep 100g of ground coffee in 1L water, not dilute and call a 300ml cup a double shot?
posted by Adifferentbear at 6:46 PM on June 11, 2022
For right now, unless I'm completely off base with my very fudged figures based on above suggestions, I think I can steep 100g of ground coffee in 1L water, not dilute and call a 300ml cup a double shot?
posted by Adifferentbear at 6:46 PM on June 11, 2022
Using the 80% extraction number that is going to be around 21g extracted/300ml. That would make it closer to a triple shot, assuming the espresso shot in question is the typical 7-9g. YMMV, of course.
posted by forbiddencabinet at 7:07 PM on June 11, 2022
posted by forbiddencabinet at 7:07 PM on June 11, 2022
Response by poster: 75g per 1L?
I swear I understand mathematical concepts, but it's like my brain is at its limit and it refuses to grasp anything past x in y = z in this one specific circumstance.
Is this the thing that breaks me?
posted by Adifferentbear at 7:24 PM on June 11, 2022
I swear I understand mathematical concepts, but it's like my brain is at its limit and it refuses to grasp anything past x in y = z in this one specific circumstance.
Is this the thing that breaks me?
posted by Adifferentbear at 7:24 PM on June 11, 2022
Best answer: Yes, 75g per litre of water would be 22.5g per 300ml. Assuming extraction efficiency is 80% relative to espresso, then that is equivalent to the 18g double shot.
I'm not convinced cold brew extracts that much less caffeine than espresso (solids, sure, but caffeine is going to be extracted quite well in either case), but there are so many variables here that I think you could call it anything from say 30-100g and still end up with an amount of caffeine that would be equivalent to a double shot you might get at any random coffee shop.
posted by ssg at 8:36 PM on June 11, 2022
I'm not convinced cold brew extracts that much less caffeine than espresso (solids, sure, but caffeine is going to be extracted quite well in either case), but there are so many variables here that I think you could call it anything from say 30-100g and still end up with an amount of caffeine that would be equivalent to a double shot you might get at any random coffee shop.
posted by ssg at 8:36 PM on June 11, 2022
seanmpuckett: It's more a hybrid; I add 96C water to the ground beans in a gallon glass jug and give it a swirl then let it sit on the counter 24 hours.
Doesn't that cause the hot phase to bring out excessive bitterness when it's cold again? The thinking with cold brewing is that keeping it cold avoids damaging delicate lighter flavour compounds with heat. You may only notice this with lightly roasted beans.
posted by k3ninho at 5:01 AM on June 12, 2022 [1 favorite]
Doesn't that cause the hot phase to bring out excessive bitterness when it's cold again? The thinking with cold brewing is that keeping it cold avoids damaging delicate lighter flavour compounds with heat. You may only notice this with lightly roasted beans.
posted by k3ninho at 5:01 AM on June 12, 2022 [1 favorite]
k3ninho: I developed this method to make great black coffee out of mediocre beans (which it definitely does) but lighter beans we get from local roasters seem to bloom very nicely with it also. There's no bitterness or unpleasantness no matter how cold the cup gets on drinking, a nice bonus. There are only one or two local coffee shops that make coffee that is arguably better and we go there once a week (Rooster, if you're in Toronto).
posted by seanmpuckett at 6:56 AM on June 12, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by seanmpuckett at 6:56 AM on June 12, 2022 [1 favorite]
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posted by papayaninja at 3:09 AM on June 11, 2022