Infection risk being around people who are still + after 10 days are up
May 27, 2022 7:44 PM Subscribe
We're doing our show tomorrow night after it became a super spreader event 2 weeks ago. Supposedly after 10 days you are not supposed to be infectious. One person told me that on day 10 they are still testing positive. How worried should I be?
I asked if he was out of the show and he said as far as he knows he'll have to wear a mask in the building. Supposedly the CDC says you're not infectious after 10 days and today is day 10, but.... As for the rest of the cast, of the six people actually onstage without masks on, two have tested negative, the one I asked is still positive, and I don't know about the other three but they haven't said anything today, so.... Suffice it to say I'm near everybody remaining unknown, plus the positive one, at some point or other. I presume most/all people are still going to be free facing it :/
I'm pretty close to saying "fuck it, I'm keeping a mask on even if nobody else is, it's the last show anyway," but thought I'd ask if anyone knows more on this than just rereading the effing CDC page over and over again. How worried should I be? I presume this is a rapid test positive and not a PCR since I know those stay positive for months.
I asked if he was out of the show and he said as far as he knows he'll have to wear a mask in the building. Supposedly the CDC says you're not infectious after 10 days and today is day 10, but.... As for the rest of the cast, of the six people actually onstage without masks on, two have tested negative, the one I asked is still positive, and I don't know about the other three but they haven't said anything today, so.... Suffice it to say I'm near everybody remaining unknown, plus the positive one, at some point or other. I presume most/all people are still going to be free facing it :/
I'm pretty close to saying "fuck it, I'm keeping a mask on even if nobody else is, it's the last show anyway," but thought I'd ask if anyone knows more on this than just rereading the effing CDC page over and over again. How worried should I be? I presume this is a rapid test positive and not a PCR since I know those stay positive for months.
My previous answer assumes you're fully vaccinated and boosted. If you're not boosted but fully vaccinated, I'd still say it's OK to perform with a mask. But if you're only partially vaccinated or not vaccinated at all, I would say you shouldnt take the stage at all
Also, the CDC's 10-day guideline is somewhat controversial. I'm one of a sizeable minority (20% or so) of physicians who feel the cut-off for contagiousness should be in the range of 14 to 18 days
posted by BadgerDoctor at 8:53 PM on May 27, 2022 [5 favorites]
Also, the CDC's 10-day guideline is somewhat controversial. I'm one of a sizeable minority (20% or so) of physicians who feel the cut-off for contagiousness should be in the range of 14 to 18 days
posted by BadgerDoctor at 8:53 PM on May 27, 2022 [5 favorites]
If this person by any chance is experiencing a paxlovid rebound they should be extending their isolation, I believe, per the new CDC guidance since no one seems to know what the heck is up with the rebound thing yet.
posted by Stacey at 8:57 PM on May 27, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by Stacey at 8:57 PM on May 27, 2022 [2 favorites]
My daughter was in a musical at their college about three or four months ago. None of the other cast wore a mask onstage, which was odd. But they were playing a scientist, so it kind of worked with the story.
I was proud at their resolve.
posted by Windopaene at 9:20 PM on May 27, 2022 [2 favorites]
I was proud at their resolve.
posted by Windopaene at 9:20 PM on May 27, 2022 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: No idea if they had paxlovid, but he didn't sound bad enough to need it so I'm assuming not. Everyone's vaxxed/boosted as far as I know, they aren't allowing the unvaxxed to perform these days.
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:33 PM on May 27, 2022
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:33 PM on May 27, 2022
Best answer: If you’re testing positive on antigen test, you’re still infectious. There’s wide variability in how long people stay infectious. Ten days is an average, not a guarantee. Positive dude should stay home.
posted by shadygrove at 9:40 PM on May 27, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by shadygrove at 9:40 PM on May 27, 2022 [2 favorites]
Best answer: Rapid antigen tests are correlated very closely with infectiousness; they’re the best tool we have to determine it (other than culturing virus in a lab). Before we had home rapid antigen tests it made sense to base isolation on timing, since we didn’t have a better option, but now that we have the tests people should be waiting until they’re negative to exit isolation.
Michael Mina tweets about this a lot - for example.
In my opinion, if the person still testing positive is testing positive with a dark line, he should stay home - even a mask isn’t sufficient protection for someone who potentially has a high infectious viral load. If it’s very faint and only showing up at the end of the test window, he should absolutely still wear a high quality mask, but it miiight be ok for him to come - it depends on everyone’s risk tolerance (and everyone coming to see the show should be informed of the situation, so they can make their own decision).
posted by maleficent at 4:53 AM on May 28, 2022 [3 favorites]
Michael Mina tweets about this a lot - for example.
In my opinion, if the person still testing positive is testing positive with a dark line, he should stay home - even a mask isn’t sufficient protection for someone who potentially has a high infectious viral load. If it’s very faint and only showing up at the end of the test window, he should absolutely still wear a high quality mask, but it miiight be ok for him to come - it depends on everyone’s risk tolerance (and everyone coming to see the show should be informed of the situation, so they can make their own decision).
posted by maleficent at 4:53 AM on May 28, 2022 [3 favorites]
Best answer: Hi professional theatre manager here who is also CSM (Covid Safety Manager) trained. Here’s our protocol.
No one is allowed in the building if they are testing positive on an antigen test. That includes faint line positives after recovering. All negative tests mean we perform without masks. Masks are worn when not on stage (lots of individual command hooks with initials on each side of the stage for masks).
Cast is vaxxed and boosted and rapid tests required every day before work. Must have negative test to enter the building. If you test positive we call the understudy or crew subs in.
If you test positive you are out for five days mandatory then start testing again. After five days if you test negative and have no symptoms (or only slight cough) you can return to work but must wear a respirator mask at all times even when in stage. We use KF94 as they are easier to breathe talk and sing. Ten days after infection, if you keep testing negative, you can perform with the mask off.
The rest of the cast performs without masks.
That’s our official policy. I’m not going into what happens if there is known exposure, that’s a whole other mask/testing routine. Unofficially I have worked it that it is eight days minimum before anyone returns to work after testing positive.
So if you are an actor/crew in the workplace and people have tested positive - and your protocols are less strict than mine, I would wear a mask around other potentially positive people, or call in sick to avoid exposure.
When we have a positive case, I’m worried about the other cast members that may be exposed and asymptomatic but contagious, and therefore continuing to work, as much as I am worried about the positive person. That’s why we stick with daily testing.
It’s really hard right now In the performing arts.
posted by sol at 5:25 AM on May 28, 2022 [11 favorites]
No one is allowed in the building if they are testing positive on an antigen test. That includes faint line positives after recovering. All negative tests mean we perform without masks. Masks are worn when not on stage (lots of individual command hooks with initials on each side of the stage for masks).
Cast is vaxxed and boosted and rapid tests required every day before work. Must have negative test to enter the building. If you test positive we call the understudy or crew subs in.
If you test positive you are out for five days mandatory then start testing again. After five days if you test negative and have no symptoms (or only slight cough) you can return to work but must wear a respirator mask at all times even when in stage. We use KF94 as they are easier to breathe talk and sing. Ten days after infection, if you keep testing negative, you can perform with the mask off.
The rest of the cast performs without masks.
That’s our official policy. I’m not going into what happens if there is known exposure, that’s a whole other mask/testing routine. Unofficially I have worked it that it is eight days minimum before anyone returns to work after testing positive.
So if you are an actor/crew in the workplace and people have tested positive - and your protocols are less strict than mine, I would wear a mask around other potentially positive people, or call in sick to avoid exposure.
When we have a positive case, I’m worried about the other cast members that may be exposed and asymptomatic but contagious, and therefore continuing to work, as much as I am worried about the positive person. That’s why we stick with daily testing.
It’s really hard right now In the performing arts.
posted by sol at 5:25 AM on May 28, 2022 [11 favorites]
Best answer: Perhaps too late, but I would be quite cautious here. While a couple studies have shown that very few people are infectious after ten days, they were generally quite small studies (tens of people) and they were testing people in general, not those with RAT positives. A RAT positive is likely to mean there is virus present and it is potentially infectious. Secondly, Paxlovid may be a factor and emerging data shows that people likely can be infectious after a post-Paxlovid rebound, which seems to be fairly common.
I think there is probably a reasonable chance this person is mildly infectious (assuming they are still testing positive today). Certainly not the same risk as someone who is five days into their infection, but not zero either.
posted by ssg at 1:46 PM on May 28, 2022
I think there is probably a reasonable chance this person is mildly infectious (assuming they are still testing positive today). Certainly not the same risk as someone who is five days into their infection, but not zero either.
posted by ssg at 1:46 PM on May 28, 2022
Response by poster: Here's what I ended up doing: I didn't quit at the last minute (some people suggested I do so, but I think that would have been pretty rude and bridge-burn-y, nor did I really want to because I wanted to say goodbye to people), but I did tell them I was going to be wearing a mask during the show, even onstage, even during pictures. I also remembered that oh yeah, I'm supposed to be taking a friend to the hospital next week, so...double reasons for precaution. I had a fresh N95 on and then a surgical over that (mostly just for looks since this theater has/had people wearing mostly gray masks "because people don't notice them").They were fine with that and one guy in the audience after the show even said he was impressed with me singing double masked.
As for the people who had had it that were there last night: four have tested negative, one of the returnees told me they hadn't tested to check and were assuming they were fine. One guy never said if he did or not, but did say he had been on Paxlovid (not the fellow I mentioned) so I dunno there. As for ah, Mr. Positive, he told me he took a test when he got up that morning and another right before he left, showed me photos on his phone and said the line had been getting fainter and fainter in between tests (and indeed the last one was barely seeable) and he said he was pretty sure that by the time the show started and the mask came off, he was probably fine. So....that's about how that went.
I wish people had all masked up again for the entire show, but...yeah, not under my control there. I note that we had another sick person turn out to be too sick to perform still, so they were down to the absolute bare minimum of ensemble dudes they needed to perform the show (they had 5 usually and need a minimum of 4, 3 of the 5 got it) and I think Mr. Positive still feels guilty that he was the straw that broke the camel's back and got the show canceled for the last weekend in the first place and didn't want to do that again.
And now, I do the 2 week wait again, I suppose. Hopefully things come out all right. I was as masked as I could get.
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:29 AM on May 29, 2022 [1 favorite]
As for the people who had had it that were there last night: four have tested negative, one of the returnees told me they hadn't tested to check and were assuming they were fine. One guy never said if he did or not, but did say he had been on Paxlovid (not the fellow I mentioned) so I dunno there. As for ah, Mr. Positive, he told me he took a test when he got up that morning and another right before he left, showed me photos on his phone and said the line had been getting fainter and fainter in between tests (and indeed the last one was barely seeable) and he said he was pretty sure that by the time the show started and the mask came off, he was probably fine. So....that's about how that went.
I wish people had all masked up again for the entire show, but...yeah, not under my control there. I note that we had another sick person turn out to be too sick to perform still, so they were down to the absolute bare minimum of ensemble dudes they needed to perform the show (they had 5 usually and need a minimum of 4, 3 of the 5 got it) and I think Mr. Positive still feels guilty that he was the straw that broke the camel's back and got the show canceled for the last weekend in the first place and didn't want to do that again.
And now, I do the 2 week wait again, I suppose. Hopefully things come out all right. I was as masked as I could get.
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:29 AM on May 29, 2022 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: On a related note, just found this NYT article where the answer is "maybe they're infectious, maybe they're not, who the hell knows, shrug emoji!"
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:15 AM on May 30, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:15 AM on May 30, 2022 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
Wear a mask. Tell your co-performers to as well, most of all "Mr Positive"
The connection between having a high enough "viral load" to test positive, and how high a viral load one has to have to be contagious, is very complicated. Just play it safe
posted by BadgerDoctor at 8:18 PM on May 27, 2022 [15 favorites]