We three kings be transportin' the gold
May 18, 2022 8:07 AM Subscribe
Asking for a friend: how does one transport a large amount of precious metals in the form of bars and coins across state lines? There may not be enough documentation to pass through TSA inspection, is driving it the only option?
A friend of mine recently had a relative pass away, and said relative had converted most of their money into gold and silver bars and coins that were hidden away in various places on their property. Friend combed the property to gather everything and put it in a safe deposit box for now in order to prevent nosy neighbors with too much access from taking it (relative was free with information and house keys in their later years, and shady neighbors/friends had meddled greatly in their financial dealings as a result).
The stash is pretty large, which would make it quite cumbersome to transport on an airplane, requiring a separate piece of luggage. Upon researching, we've learned that TSA allows for travelers to take up to $1 million worth of precious metal with them on a plane but it should be properly documented. There is no documentation that my friend could find for this metal (relative started purchasing in the 70s and 80s and was not well organized about this). The relative's property is in a different state from where my friend lives and they usually fly back and forth to there, but it is possible to take a long drive to retrieve the stash if necessary. My friend does not want to sell the bars and coins in the state where it is currently located and wants to bring it back to their home while they figure out what to do with it.
My question is, is there any way to take this on a plane without inviting some kind of investigation? What type of documentation would my friend need? Or will my friend have to plan a summer road trip to get everything back home?
A friend of mine recently had a relative pass away, and said relative had converted most of their money into gold and silver bars and coins that were hidden away in various places on their property. Friend combed the property to gather everything and put it in a safe deposit box for now in order to prevent nosy neighbors with too much access from taking it (relative was free with information and house keys in their later years, and shady neighbors/friends had meddled greatly in their financial dealings as a result).
The stash is pretty large, which would make it quite cumbersome to transport on an airplane, requiring a separate piece of luggage. Upon researching, we've learned that TSA allows for travelers to take up to $1 million worth of precious metal with them on a plane but it should be properly documented. There is no documentation that my friend could find for this metal (relative started purchasing in the 70s and 80s and was not well organized about this). The relative's property is in a different state from where my friend lives and they usually fly back and forth to there, but it is possible to take a long drive to retrieve the stash if necessary. My friend does not want to sell the bars and coins in the state where it is currently located and wants to bring it back to their home while they figure out what to do with it.
My question is, is there any way to take this on a plane without inviting some kind of investigation? What type of documentation would my friend need? Or will my friend have to plan a summer road trip to get everything back home?
my friend is the sole heir to this relative's property, so there is no question of rightful ownership here.
I don't think it really matters how your friend's relative obtained the gold; your friend has inherited the gold from the relative. Did the assets go through any kind of probate or voluntary administration process? That would seem to be the relevant "documentation" that you would need here (and it will also be useful for tax purposes if/when the friend wants to sell the gold).
Speaking of which, what's your friend's long-term plan for the gold? Do they want to keep it? Because *to me* the easiest thing to do would be to sell the gold somewhere near where it is now.
posted by mskyle at 8:13 AM on May 18, 2022 [11 favorites]
I don't think it really matters how your friend's relative obtained the gold; your friend has inherited the gold from the relative. Did the assets go through any kind of probate or voluntary administration process? That would seem to be the relevant "documentation" that you would need here (and it will also be useful for tax purposes if/when the friend wants to sell the gold).
Speaking of which, what's your friend's long-term plan for the gold? Do they want to keep it? Because *to me* the easiest thing to do would be to sell the gold somewhere near where it is now.
posted by mskyle at 8:13 AM on May 18, 2022 [11 favorites]
Thanks to the atrocious doctrine of "Asset Forfeiture", the police can legally seize anything they want in the USA https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asset_forfeiture. If this is your first time learning about this, you might naturally think "Well I have documents proving my ownership of this stuff! And I'm not involved in a crime, I don't do anything shady at all" - And those are natural thoughts, that somehow you are a good person and the law wouldn't do something bad to you.
But there are countless stories of police seizing even modest amounts of cash from travelers who are on the way to make a large purchase like a car, machinery, etc.
I cannot stress enough that it does not matter if your assets are legally yours, if you have committed no crime or illegal doings. Simply having a lot of valuable stuff on you is sufficient cause, in the eyes of the law, to seize it. You may have civil rights, but your stuff does not, and there is often almost no legal recourse to get your property back once it's gone.
I think in this case it might make sense to arrange new secure storage at a bank or other facility that specializes in such, and to hire professionals to move the stash, like an armored car company, or someone who could otherwise ensure, with insurance, bonds, etc, the safe delivery of the assets. You could probably retain a lawyer to help you make such arrangements?
posted by rustcrumb at 8:27 AM on May 18, 2022 [43 favorites]
But there are countless stories of police seizing even modest amounts of cash from travelers who are on the way to make a large purchase like a car, machinery, etc.
I cannot stress enough that it does not matter if your assets are legally yours, if you have committed no crime or illegal doings. Simply having a lot of valuable stuff on you is sufficient cause, in the eyes of the law, to seize it. You may have civil rights, but your stuff does not, and there is often almost no legal recourse to get your property back once it's gone.
I think in this case it might make sense to arrange new secure storage at a bank or other facility that specializes in such, and to hire professionals to move the stash, like an armored car company, or someone who could otherwise ensure, with insurance, bonds, etc, the safe delivery of the assets. You could probably retain a lawyer to help you make such arrangements?
posted by rustcrumb at 8:27 AM on May 18, 2022 [43 favorites]
Yes, don't try to move this by car. There are places in the US where civil forfeiture is the cops' major source of revenue and you'll probably pass through some on a long car trip. You would need to sue to get your money back - you would probably win eventually assuming that there is absolutely nothing shady in your background and you have a good lawyer, but you'd be out a lot of money.
Talk to a lawyer, sell it in-state (moving it very carefully - possibly a dealer could come to you?), hire an armored car - just don't end up on some interstate in Nowheresville when the cops are looking to make traffic ticket quota.
posted by Frowner at 8:48 AM on May 18, 2022 [4 favorites]
Talk to a lawyer, sell it in-state (moving it very carefully - possibly a dealer could come to you?), hire an armored car - just don't end up on some interstate in Nowheresville when the cops are looking to make traffic ticket quota.
posted by Frowner at 8:48 AM on May 18, 2022 [4 favorites]
Take a look at Registered Mail, which can be insured up to $50k per package. I don't know how much value we are talking about, but perhaps it could be split into several ~$50k packages? Then the friend could fly to the destination, drive the gold over to the USPS, and fly home. Obviously, this becomes less practical as the amount of gold goes up.
posted by Mid at 8:49 AM on May 18, 2022
posted by Mid at 8:49 AM on May 18, 2022
If you really have to transport a lot of gold/money, you can hire Brinks or other armored car services to do the handling for you, but it won't be cheap (but if you have a huge pile of gold that may not be as big a deal as making sure it makes it to your Scrooge McDuck-like vault safely).
posted by AzraelBrown at 8:58 AM on May 18, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by AzraelBrown at 8:58 AM on May 18, 2022 [1 favorite]
Hire a bonded courier. Period.
Upside of not hiring a courier: Get to keep a little more of the money.
Downside of not hiring a courier: Non-trivial chance of losing all of the money -- asset forfeiture, robbery, car accident. lost checked baggage, something that you can't even think of happening for some weird reason because your friend isn't a professional courier.
posted by Etrigan at 9:06 AM on May 18, 2022 [13 favorites]
Upside of not hiring a courier: Get to keep a little more of the money.
Downside of not hiring a courier: Non-trivial chance of losing all of the money -- asset forfeiture, robbery, car accident. lost checked baggage, something that you can't even think of happening for some weird reason because your friend isn't a professional courier.
posted by Etrigan at 9:06 AM on May 18, 2022 [13 favorites]
If your friend intends to keep the gold, I agree, hire professionals to move the gold from one secured location to another. If your friend does not intend to ultimately keep the gold, I recommend they sell it off ASAP and be done with it.
posted by Stuka at 9:07 AM on May 18, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by Stuka at 9:07 AM on May 18, 2022 [5 favorites]
Apparently, $1,000,000 worth of gold weighs close to 40 pounds. (A one-kilo gold bar is about the size of an iPhone, so 17 of them isn't too bulky.)
That's at/over the weight limit for most airlines' carry-on baggage policies, and I really doubt that (s)he will want to check it! Just carrying it will be tiring, much less hoisting it into the overhead compartment.
Hire a courier or sell it while it's still in Far_State to someone in Near_State, then arrange shipping.
posted by wenestvedt at 9:41 AM on May 18, 2022
That's at/over the weight limit for most airlines' carry-on baggage policies, and I really doubt that (s)he will want to check it! Just carrying it will be tiring, much less hoisting it into the overhead compartment.
Hire a courier or sell it while it's still in Far_State to someone in Near_State, then arrange shipping.
posted by wenestvedt at 9:41 AM on May 18, 2022
Another option would be dividing it up and taking multiple trips so that if something goes awry, your friend doesn't lose everything.
posted by Larry David Syndrome at 11:12 AM on May 18, 2022
posted by Larry David Syndrome at 11:12 AM on May 18, 2022
Response by poster: Thanks for the answers, everyone, it's been very helpful. Flying has been ruled out as an option due to the sheer weight and lack of documentation. We're talking 100+ pounds here (a mix of silver and gold, including several $1k bags of silver dimes alone which are quite hefty--did I google how much a roll of dimes weighs? Yes. Yes, I did. It's about half a pound, if you're wondering).
The bonded courier option would possibly suck up a significant amount of the value of the collection, plus nobody involved has any idea of where to find one. My friend has decided to sell some of the stash in state and will return with their partner and kids on a road trip to retrieve the remainder. I doubt they will raise any suspicion but they will be taking precautions to minimize any contact with the police and the risk of asset forfeiture.
Thanks again for the advice. My friend appreciated being able to outsource this problem during what is already a difficult time for them.
posted by Fuego at 11:59 AM on May 18, 2022 [1 favorite]
The bonded courier option would possibly suck up a significant amount of the value of the collection, plus nobody involved has any idea of where to find one. My friend has decided to sell some of the stash in state and will return with their partner and kids on a road trip to retrieve the remainder. I doubt they will raise any suspicion but they will be taking precautions to minimize any contact with the police and the risk of asset forfeiture.
Thanks again for the advice. My friend appreciated being able to outsource this problem during what is already a difficult time for them.
posted by Fuego at 11:59 AM on May 18, 2022 [1 favorite]
> just shipping it with a reputable shipper like FedEx or UPS. Ship everything to a secure location (e.g. a depot) and pick it all up when you get there. Get their max insurance and check your homeowner's insurance policy, as they might insure the losses as well.
Insurance has limitations there:
https://shipware.com/blog/fedex-shipping-insurance-a-comprehensive-guide/
Insurance has limitations there:
https://shipware.com/blog/fedex-shipping-insurance-a-comprehensive-guide/
Understanding Insurance Limitationsposted by sebastienbailard at 3:35 PM on May 18, 2022 [1 favorite]
When using any carrier, including FedEx, it’s a good idea to verify which items are not covered or have limitations on coverage. For example, the Declared Value and Limits of Liability sections of the FedEx Service Guide explain that items of extraordinary value and those items with a value that is difficult to ascertain may not be declared. According to the FedEx site, limitations include the following:
For Shipments containing the following items of extraordinary value the Declared Value for Carriage is also limited and depends on the contents and destination of the Shipment:
...
Jewelry, including but not limited to, costume jewelry, watches and their parts, mount gems or stones (precious or semiprecious, cut or uncut), industrial diamonds and jewelry made of precious metal.
Precious metals, including but not limited to, gold and silver, silver bullion or dust, precipitates or platinum (except as an integral part of electronic machinery).
...
FedEx might not exclude insurance on the above items outright, but may limit the amount you can declare. For example, FedEx permits a maximum declared value up to $1,000 for the following items:
Artwork
Photos
Glassware
Jewelry
Furs
Precious metals
Plasma screens
Antiques
Stocks, bonds, and cash equivalents
Collectibles, such as coins or stamps
Some musical instruments
Models, such as dollhouses
If you state a value that exceeds the amount allowed, you simply won’t be able to recover more than what is set forth in the FedEx rules and regulations.
Probate = documentation. If probate has been avoided on this asset, documentation will be required when/ if it's sold. Personally, I would likely put the metal in sturdy locked & chained boxes in the trunk of a late model minivan, covered with camping gear, and drive, sleeping in the vehicle.
Another option is to liquidate it and put money in an account.
posted by theora55 at 7:04 AM on May 19, 2022
Another option is to liquidate it and put money in an account.
posted by theora55 at 7:04 AM on May 19, 2022
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posted by Fuego at 8:08 AM on May 18, 2022