Roommate predicament, should I pay or not?

April 10, 2006 3:40 PM

Roommate predicament, should I pay or not?

Short summary: The former roommate in the house I was planning to move in to tried her best to be discreet about telling me that I might not be getting into a good rental situation when I asked her. I pulled out but left the live-in landlord with half my deposit as not to screw her over. Now the landlord has contacted the old roommate telling her she is liable for rent because things with me fell through. The old roommate was only trying to protect me – and now she is about to get hurt because of it. HELP! I need advice.



(Very) Long version: I arrived at my new apartment, ready to move in with my car half full of stuff ready to unload. My new landlady who I would be living with was at work, and the roommate who was moving out was home finishing up the bathroom cleaning. After checking out the empty room, I was headed downstairs to start with the first load of stuff, and I asked the roommate who was leaving if there was anything I should know about the landlady or the living situation before I took the plunge.

Her response left me baffled – she refused to go into any details until she got her full deposit back, but the look in her eyes and the fact that she felt worried that she wouldn’t get her deposit back from this lady didn’t fare well for what kind of situation I was about to get myself into. I tried to get more information out of her so I could make the right decision, but she wouldn’t budge one bit. She seemed very very nice, and sympathetic, and the more I tried to get info out of her, the more I understood that this was NOT a living situation I should be entering into. She even mentioned wishing that she had the phone number of the other roommate who recently moved out, insinuating that that person had a bad story to tell as well.

So...the former roommate and I exchanged phone numbers and agreed to talk later, so I could tell her what I was planning to do, and so that she could eventually tell me, once she got her deposit back, what was so wrong with the landlady/living situation, regardless of my decision. The landlady never knew that she and I came into contact, and we agreed to keep it that way.



After giving it much thought that afternoon, I decided that the best way for us all to get out of it – for me to not have to move in with a crazy lady, and for the former roommate to not be affected by my decision – was to make up a story that got me out of it. So, I did – I made up a life altering event, the end result of which meaning that I couldn’t move in. The landlady was sympathetic to my situation, I told her to keep the deposit money I gave her to cover the half month of rent that it could, and the former roommate wasn’t involved and should therefore get her money back – everybody wins, right?

So I thought until I received a call from the former roommate – the landlady called and told her that because things with the new roommate (me) fell through, she was still responsible for paying rent until she found someone who could take the room. Obviously this is unfair and ridiculous – the deposit money that I left should be what covers the rent until a new person comes in – but as far as the landlady knows, the former tenant and I never touched base, so she doesn’t know that we each know what she’s trying to do. The problem now being, this former tenant can’t get her deposit back from the landlady, and it’s at least partially, if not fully, my fault.

So – what should I do? Should I offer to pay the former tenant a portion or all of the deposit that she won’t be able to get back? That would be money I’m paying, literally, for NOTHING! Should I tell the tenant that I’m sorry she is in this situation, but I can’t help, and risk having her tell the landlady about our interaction, and therefore I would be held responsible for my end of the rental agreement?

I really want to do what is right for everyone, including myself…but what is right? What would you do in my situation?

I'm in California, if that helps/matters.

posted by thefinned1 to law & government (28 comments total)

walk away, just keep walking even if they are yelling really loud, not your problem and you don't want it to be
posted by Meatbomb at 3:55 PM on April 10, 2006

I'd say it's her problem. If you didn't sign a lease or contract, screw it.
posted by cellphone at 3:57 PM on April 10, 2006

did you sign a lease? Were you going to fill out the remainder of the lease of the former roommate (i.e. she'd signed up for a year, only lived there six months, got you to live there for the duration of the lease agreement)?

If you didn't sign a lease, then it's not your problem. If she's not on a lease, then it's probably not her problem either.
posted by luneray at 4:00 PM on April 10, 2006

It seems strange to me that the former tenant would be responsible for paying rent because things with you fell through. That says to me that she was leaving before her lease was up - otherwise, having given notice and terminated her lease, it is up to the landlord to find someone new for the place. (Unless the law in California is strange and profoundly unfair, which I'm going to assume it's not.)

Now, if she is leaving her lease early, and thus had simply made an agreement with the landlord that she would stop paying when someone else took over her lease...well, it sucks that she's now stuck continuing to pay, but it's also her fault. She clearly insinuated to you that you shouldn't move in, and you did a rational thing by finding a way to bail. If she was so desperate about getting out of her lease early, she should have been much more circumspect with you. I feel badly for her, but it's not your problem; she's got a legal commitment to the lease, and it's her problem to get out of it if it's a bad situation, not yours.

Now, if her lease is ended and the landlady is trying to make her continue to pay until she finds someone new, she can probably tell the landlady to take a hike. You should make sure she knows her legal rights, maybe, or refer her to a tenant hotline or something.

One line is giving me trouble: and therefore I would be held responsible for my end of the rental agreement

Did you, in fact, sign a rental agreement? If you did, did the landlady, upon hearing your story, simply agree to void it? If you did sign an agreement, I cannot understand how the former tenant has any continuing obligations, regardless of what goes on between you and this landlady. This makes me think that the agreement was, in fact, to take over the lease. If this is the case, I'd be worried that the former tenant will simply take you to court to fulfill your legal obligation. You need to clarify this for us. The more I think about it, the less sense it makes. Please clarify.
posted by Dasein at 4:01 PM on April 10, 2006

I arrived at my new apartment, ready to move in with my car half full of stuff ready to unload.

Had you already signed a lease? Had the person who just moved out given written (however many days) notice, at a time when her lease said she could?

As far as I know (IANAL), if the former tenant moved out appropriately, it is absolutely not legal to take her deposit and use it to cover the empty room. Not only that, there are fairly strict laws in CA about when and how you get them back -- the person who just moved out should receive the remainder of deposit + itemized receipt of how it was used within two weeks of her moving out. In my experience non-professional landlords often ignore this, though. I have no idea what happens to yours, but presumably it depends on whether you had signed a lease; if you had, it was probably at least a month-long contract, and the deposit (I think) can go towards that month's rent. A little more information here.

(To point out the obvious:) It sounds like you (and the former roommate) should talk to a lawyer who specializes in this stuff.
posted by advil at 4:02 PM on April 10, 2006

Why should the landlady get to keep the other persons deposit? Why is she responsible for paying the rent until someone else comes in. Provided she has given notice as specified in her lease she is fine. If she hasn't then she may have difficulties. Note - SHE - not you, may have difficulties.

If they have moved out what happens beyond that has nothing to do with anything. Get the former tenant to put in a claim to a small claims court (or the US equivalent) to get her deposit back. Get legal quickly. A request from a court may get the land lady to prompty return the money.

Oh - and maybe look for a site that talks about awful land lords and put an entry up for this person.
posted by sien at 4:05 PM on April 10, 2006

Assuming that the other roomate completed her lease and you were moving in - i.e. that you wern't taking over her lease, she is entited to her deposit back or she can take this matter to small claims court AND EASILY WIN. If she had made some sort of agreement with the landlady that she would get her deposit back only if she got someone else to move in, that's her problem.

Like Meatbomb said, walk away if you didnt sign anything. The roommate intentionally dropped hints for you to stay away so she has to deal with the consequences.
posted by special-k at 4:09 PM on April 10, 2006

Lets say I did sign something but the landlord is waiving the agreement we made due to her sympathy for my (phony) situation. Then what?
posted by thefinned1 at 4:16 PM on April 10, 2006

Get it in writing, for starters.
posted by cellphone at 4:18 PM on April 10, 2006

I also think you should walk away. It sounds like there was a bad situation in place between the landlady and the former tenant before you entered the picture, and the landlady is probably just using any excuse she can to screw the former tenant. This situation doesn't really involve you, even though you wandered into the middle out.

Kudos to you for doing what you did - with a carful of your stuff downstairs, it must have been hard to decide not to stay. I think that letting the landlady keep the money was a noble decision, but I don't think this situation requires any more nobility from you.
posted by chudmonkey at 4:19 PM on April 10, 2006

Just to clear up something sien (and others) I believe the situation is that the landlady is attempting to get more money out of the former roommate. She got a half month from the original poster, but assumes the former roommate doesn't know this. So she's asking for that money again. Essentially, she wants to make a full month's rent off of it.
posted by Captaintripps at 4:20 PM on April 10, 2006

Lets say I did sign something but the landlord is waiving the agreement we made due to her sympathy for my (phony) situation. Then what?

Then that's a really complicated situation. You should really just walk away, otherwise the landlord can always 'un-wave' her waver, and claim she never did if she feels like she's getting screwed.

If the former roommate signed a lease saying she would pay rent until X then she's responsible for doing that, under most circumstances. It sucks, but that's generally how it works. The landlord is doing you a favor out of sympathy to you, but she still wants to get paid by someone.

You basically feel that it's OK to screw the landlord out of rent?

But there are a ton of details to look at, including the specific wording on the lease. You'll (or more specifically, she will) really have to have a lawyer look over the lease and specific situation and get advice. There is really no way to go over the details here.

Hopefully there is a place that will help you in Cali.
posted by delmoi at 4:24 PM on April 10, 2006

Just to clear up something sien (and others) I believe the situation is that the landlady is attempting to get more money out of the former roommate. She got a half month from the original poster, but assumes the former roommate doesn't know this. So she's asking for that money again. Essentially, she wants to make a full month's rent off of it.

Okay, so this is only about one months rent? Half of which she has?

The former tenant has legal recourse if she feels she's not getting her full deposit back.
posted by delmoi at 4:26 PM on April 10, 2006

thefinned1 writes "Lets say I did sign something but the landlord is waiving the agreement we made due to her sympathy for my (phony) situation. Then what?"

This could come back to bite you in the ass. Do you have it in writing? If not, there's still your signature on a legally binding lease agreement, and no proof that this agreement has been waived. Plus, you obtained the waiver fraudulently. "Walk away" seems like good advice, but if you're legally tied to this apartment, I'm not sure how practical it is.

Your best bet might be to help find a new tenant. So long as the landlady has a steady stream of income, she won't come looking for alternate sources. Like that lease you signed.

Of course, if you got the waiver or lease cancellation in writing, feel free to walk away...
posted by mr_roboto at 4:28 PM on April 10, 2006

If you lied to get out of your agreement with the landlady, that's one thing. If you feel it was the right decision, then just live with it and walk away. But you having done so shouldn't affect the legal/financial arrangements between the landlady and the former tenant, since they were likely made well before you entered the picture.

So really, same advice. Sounds like you did screw-over the landlady, but probably before she could screw you first. Tough decision, but it's already made, right?
posted by chudmonkey at 4:33 PM on April 10, 2006

Lets say I did sign something

What did you sign? A new lease or a sublet?

If I understand your situation:
1. Previous tenant let you know this was a bad place to live after you already signed a lease because she was afraid landlady would retaliate..
2. You made up a story to get out of the lease
3. Landlady buys your story, but doesn't cancel your lease in writing.
4. LL goes after previous tenant.
5. You are afraid previous tenant will tell LL about your meeting which prompted #2

which leads to:

6. You are afraid that LL will make you fulfill your end of the rental agreement.
posted by luneray at 4:34 PM on April 10, 2006

Luneray: Mostly. I wouldn't call what we signed an official lease, but it could be construed as such.

What if the LL canceled my lease in writing? What if she thinks she never signed it, or has lost it. (She has no recollection of that event.)

I haven’t met with her to give her the keys back. Would I be clear if she cancelled it in writing?

I'm very concerned about the former tenant. I want to do right by her; she was only trying to help after all. I am considering telling her to tell the LL to keep 1/2 her deposit and paying her (tenant) that half out of my pocket.

I'm looking for a way to get everyone square here.

Clearly this is a very sticky situation.
posted by thefinned1 at 4:46 PM on April 10, 2006

Then do that asap. Return the keys to the LL, get your signed lease back and then deal with the rest. As long as you're no longer legally leasing the place, you only have to deal with your conscience.
posted by special-k at 4:52 PM on April 10, 2006

Also, please make note that this isn't a professional land lord or rental agency, it is just a lady with an extra room in her house.
posted by thefinned1 at 5:01 PM on April 10, 2006

It's really hard to give you advice not knowing what you signed. What is a not-official lease that could be construed as a lease?

Also, your landlady doesn't have any recollection that she released you from your obligations? That bodes ill for you.

I know we say this all the time, but GET EVERYTHING IN WRITING. That is the safest way to cover your ass. When you return your keys, bring with you a short letter that you've drafted - make it FROM the landlady TO you, and simply state that the landlady releases you from all obligations as stated in the lease (or whatever the title of the document is). Have the landlady sign it. That should be good enough if you're ever in small claims court pro se.

Though it is admirable that you want to, it is not your responsibility to sort out the agreement that the former tenant had with the landlady. If you still want to, get a copy of the former tenant's lease/agreement, and read through it. It will have terms in there for breaking the agreement or subletting.
posted by MeetMegan at 5:04 PM on April 10, 2006

The young woman you met was going to move out even if you never showed up at all. The landlady was going to try to cheat her even if you never existed. You've done more than enough. Seriously: if you were in the position of that girl, would you be blaming the guy who got smart and didn't move in? I doubt it.

I live in San Francisco. Here, the landlord has to make a reasonable effort to find a new tenant, and can't lawfully take rent money from two people for the same period of time. I'm guessing that the law offers some protection for the former tenant. It's up to her to assert her rights.
posted by wryly at 5:07 PM on April 10, 2006

Just to clarify (I used poor wording before) the LL doesn't remember signing a lease, we haven't met to absolve it yet.
posted by thefinned1 at 5:08 PM on April 10, 2006

She doesn't remember signing a lease but you did sign a lease? But it's not really a lease? You are not an easy person to help, fish-man.

But based on what you have said thus far, walk away. It was nice of you to surrender your deposit in an effort to get this other person off the hook but at some point you have to let others take responsibility for their actions.

The former tenant took a chance in tipping you off when she knew it might bite her in the ass. It's unfortunate that doing the right thing (assuming she wasn't the whacko here, which is a possibility you should consider) can be painful, but there you go.

The landlady, if she's jerking this old tenant around, is responsible for her bad behavior, not you. Maybe she's actually the one being jerked around. Maybe she's pure evil. Maybe she'll be getting to you soon enough.

If she does turn on you, you may want to look into what the laws are for taking in roomers in that area. She may not have a legal right to take in people so any claim she tries to make to more money could be legally unenforceable. Most municipalities have stricter rules about this kind of thing than most people think. That may be why the former tenant is freaked - she may not have any documentation on this deposit and having lived there illegally she may have fewer avenues of recourse.

Take care of yourself first.
posted by phearlez at 5:34 PM on April 10, 2006

Lets say I did sign something but the landlord is waiving the agreement we made due to her sympathy for my (phony) situation. Then what?

Just to clarify (I used poor wording before) the LL doesn't remember signing a lease, we haven't met to absolve it yet.

This is just getting more confusing - you signed "something," which she is waiving, but does not remember signing. How is she waiving it if she doesn't remember it existing? And what is wrong with this woman that she doesn't remember you signing something? Does she not have a copy of it?

Anyway, if you signed a contract, you're on the hook if she wants you to be. She'd have to dissolve it in writing, so you'd better find a way to get that dissolved, or hope that she can't find her copy of it.

It sounds to me like she has no right to demand anything of her former tenant. That girl has no obligations at all, given that you have signed something with this landlady. Tell the girl that she doesn't owe the landlady anything, and that you're sorry for this situation. But make sure she knows that she doesn't have any continuing obligation to the landlady. She needn't fear being taken to court, because the landlady has no claim against her. Just make sure she doesn't throw away any documentation. This landlady does sound like a screwball.
posted by Dasein at 5:56 PM on April 10, 2006

I think we're getting a little carried away here.

This is just a crazy (literally and figuratively) little old lady. She's not taking anybody to court. It would cost her more to take this to court than to just re-rent the place. There's no need to get into lawyers. This is all just "hot air."

You're "done," poster. You were more than generous in letting her keep the deposit (was it one month or two out of curiosity). You could always pay 15 bucks or so to get a copy of the cancelled check, if you don't automatically get them from your bank.

I would just tell the roommate(s) that they are free to point out to the old lady that you gave her some dough to compensate her during the time she looks for a new tenant. Beyond that, the old roommates are the ones who need to duke it out with the landlady over any remaining issues. Personally, I'd just kiss the deposit goodbye and tell the old lady to piss off and to not call me again.

Good thing you didn't move in. You made the right decision, IMHO.
posted by bim at 6:40 PM on April 10, 2006

Here's the steps you should take:

1) Return the key to landlady
2) While returning the key, demand that you get your original agreement back, and if the landlady "doesn't remember" (sounds more like she's planning on screwing YOU in the future too), get a NEW piece of paper, with the date of the returned key, saying that due to unforeseen circumstances, both of the undersigned parties agree to waive all previous signed contracts.
3) Run in the opposite direction as fast as you can.

As far as the current tenant? If they have properly terminated their lease, they are not responsible for keeping up the landlady's income until they find a new tenant. If they have NOT properly terminated their lease, they ARE responsible (at least until the end of their current lease agreement).

And it doesn't matter if it's a real management company, or a little old lady renting out a room. If you sign a piece of paper that says "I agree to pay x dollars for x number of months/years in order to live at such and such an address", that is pretty much a legally binding lease, as far as I'm concerned.
posted by antifuse at 2:11 AM on April 11, 2006

And it doesn't matter if it's a real management company, or a little old lady renting out a room. If you sign a piece of paper that says "I agree to pay x dollars for x number of months/years in order to live at such and such an address", that is pretty much a legally binding lease, as far as I'm concerned.

This is just silly. There are always costs to enforcing "agreements" and sometimes they are prohibitive. For this little old lady -- who is acting like a child -- I'm willing to bet that the costs of enforcing any lease are far beyond what she's willing to incur. Let her stamp her feet and throw a hissy fit if she wants. It's not the poster's problem.

It's real simple. The only leverage this old gal has got is somebody's deposit. And it's not the poster's deposit. The poster should mail her the key (certified mail with a return receipt) if he still has it and stop worrying.

I'm all for being a "nice guy" but this doesn't mean that a person has to be a "sucker," antifuse. :)
posted by bim at 5:09 AM on April 11, 2006

One more comment, if you will. :)

I have lived in many apartments over the years and never in an apartment complex. Only once I have I lived in a house with the landlord on the premises. And it was nothing but trouble. IMHO, sharing a house with a landlord is to be avoided. A landlord living next door might be just fine.

There will always be problems of one sort or another between tenants. Unfortunately, you will never be on equal footing with your landlord as the other tenant. It has moved beyond being a mere business arrangement. You are essentially GUEST in their home and oftentimes they want the money but don't want you in any way to infringe on their personal lifestyle. And sometimes (like little old ladies) they even invade your privacy and snoop around your apartment while you're not home.

And when looking for an apartment, always ask "if they have a handy man" to ease into a discussion of how likely a landlord is to fix things. I like living in apartments in houses but you have to be sure that the landlord is treating it as a business transaction and understands the give and take of such a relationship. Good luck, finn, on finding a nice new home.
posted by bim at 5:45 AM on April 11, 2006