Extreme Anxiety, Mom Edition
January 27, 2022 11:41 AM Subscribe
My mom's anxiety is running my life. How do I set boundaries with her when everything feels like a life-or-death scenario to her? And how do I help her with her anxiety without making her feel invalidated?
I turned 30 last year. I still have no idea how to deal with my mom's extreme anxiety. I'm currently on a long visit with my parents, so this is coming up more than usual. She's been through some major traumas and she is medicated for severe depression and anxiety. Her anxiety has been a huge presence in our lives for at least the last ten years.
There are times when I (or another family member) really needs to set boundaries with my mom, and we don't know how to do that. I've often done things I don't want to just to satisfy her anxiety. When I say no to her, her response is often along the lines of "you're crazy!!!" and "are you trying to have [TERRIBLE THING] happen??" She sees her anxieties as totally reasonable and then understandably thinks that I'm being dangerous or negligent if I don't want to do things the same way. I think she also feels like I'm not listening to her if I don't do things her way.
These things come up all the time in large and small ways, and it's exhausting. I know it's even more exhausting for her to be anxious all the time. I try to be as calm and supportive as I can, and I'm trying to help her find a therapist (her idea). Also trying to get therapy for myself and my dad, who also struggles to have patience around this.
I love my mom so much, and I need to figure out how to support her and also live my life. How have you handled extreme anxiety with your loved one, especially setting boundaries and saying no? Are there any resources you can recommend for us? Thanks in advance.
I turned 30 last year. I still have no idea how to deal with my mom's extreme anxiety. I'm currently on a long visit with my parents, so this is coming up more than usual. She's been through some major traumas and she is medicated for severe depression and anxiety. Her anxiety has been a huge presence in our lives for at least the last ten years.
There are times when I (or another family member) really needs to set boundaries with my mom, and we don't know how to do that. I've often done things I don't want to just to satisfy her anxiety. When I say no to her, her response is often along the lines of "you're crazy!!!" and "are you trying to have [TERRIBLE THING] happen??" She sees her anxieties as totally reasonable and then understandably thinks that I'm being dangerous or negligent if I don't want to do things the same way. I think she also feels like I'm not listening to her if I don't do things her way.
These things come up all the time in large and small ways, and it's exhausting. I know it's even more exhausting for her to be anxious all the time. I try to be as calm and supportive as I can, and I'm trying to help her find a therapist (her idea). Also trying to get therapy for myself and my dad, who also struggles to have patience around this.
I love my mom so much, and I need to figure out how to support her and also live my life. How have you handled extreme anxiety with your loved one, especially setting boundaries and saying no? Are there any resources you can recommend for us? Thanks in advance.
I'm so sorry you're dealing with this. High anxiety is such a self-reinforcing bad habit. My mom is also like this, but refused therapy or respecting boundaries so I eventually cut off 99% of contact. It sounds like your mom is more open to putting the work in to shift this. And that's what it takes: work and discipline. From everyone, but especially her.
I would recommend finding CBT therapy for her and EFT or possibly EMDR for you. Later on, family counseling can help establish healthier communication habits. But until you find and settle in to your therapy, I think you should both read Three Minute Therapy and really put good efforts into following that program. It's surprisingly effective.
Ultimately she is going to have to accept that her catastrophizing thoughts are not reality, and she needs to be able to step away from the rush of emotions to examine her thoughts and assumptions in a more objective way. The book will help her develop those skills.
Please remember to take care of yourself.
You can't force your mom to be rational or respectful of boundaries, so sometimes you may have to walk away. That's OK. You have to respect your own boundaries as well. Don't set yourself on fire to keep other people warm.
Good luck, I hope you can all get to a better place with each other.
posted by ananci at 12:05 PM on January 27, 2022 [3 favorites]
I would recommend finding CBT therapy for her and EFT or possibly EMDR for you. Later on, family counseling can help establish healthier communication habits. But until you find and settle in to your therapy, I think you should both read Three Minute Therapy and really put good efforts into following that program. It's surprisingly effective.
Ultimately she is going to have to accept that her catastrophizing thoughts are not reality, and she needs to be able to step away from the rush of emotions to examine her thoughts and assumptions in a more objective way. The book will help her develop those skills.
Please remember to take care of yourself.
You can't force your mom to be rational or respectful of boundaries, so sometimes you may have to walk away. That's OK. You have to respect your own boundaries as well. Don't set yourself on fire to keep other people warm.
Good luck, I hope you can all get to a better place with each other.
posted by ananci at 12:05 PM on January 27, 2022 [3 favorites]
Best answer: This is a put your own oxygen mask on first kind of situation. I think you know that even if you listened to her and did everything exactly as she asked, she would still feel this anxious and look to others to soothe her anxiety. She is trying to exert some kind of control.
You can only set boundaries if you're willing to enforce them. So if she wants you to do something her way, eventually you have to say "I've thought about this a lot, and I'm comfortable with the plan I have, let's talk about something else" and THEN DON'T TALK ABOUT IT AGAIN. If she tries to physically intervene, you have to leave. You can do it with compassion - "I am sorry you are feeling anxious right now, I understand how difficult that is, but this is what I'm doing." "Sounds like something you can talk about with your therapist." If she insists ""are you trying to have [TERRIBLE THING] happen??" You can say, "No, and I don't think that's likely to happen, so I'm not interested in debating it. What can you do right now to feel better, Mom?" and then suggest whatever distraction or thing she likes (hang out with a pet, knit, cook or bake, read, listen to music, have a drink, go for a walk, whatever).
You can be there for her without engaging with the anxiety by saying something like, I'm not going to discuss this anymore, but I'd love to take a walk around the neighborhood or go for a drive, or help you bake some cookies, or play with the dog in the yard or whatever. It's good to have a few of these things in mind when you visit her. Maybe you can even start a new "tradition" of distraction together working on a project or doing something. Are there any activities she likes doing around the house or creative things? Try to get familiar with them.
(For years I asked my mom to move to a place with outdoor space because she loves to garden, hoping I could garden with her, but her fear of change never allowed that to happen, so she has like 20 houseplants in her tiny apartment and that's it. Unfortunately, the houseplants don't require that much maintenance for us to do.) When I was a kid we made fresh pasta with a pasta machine, which is time consuming and fiddly and a great way to pass an afternoon.
I don't find the boundary setting part hard. What I find hard is fighting the reactionary wave of guilt that comes when I disengage, as well as the grief that I feel, knowing there are large parts of my life experience and worldview my mother will never understand or relate to, and will only ever react to with unwarranted fear and anxiety. There is also a grief of looking back at my own life and seeing how much I missed out on, because for so long I shared some of that anxiety in my worldview.
The grief has been hardest to process. The guilt I have learned to talk myself through. Definitely seek the help of a therapist for both. You really have to internalize that there's nothing you can do to interrupt this cycle for her, so you have to take care of your own mental health and wellbeing. Same goes for your dad. It's hard. I'm sorry you're going through this.
posted by zdravo at 12:07 PM on January 27, 2022 [29 favorites]
You can only set boundaries if you're willing to enforce them. So if she wants you to do something her way, eventually you have to say "I've thought about this a lot, and I'm comfortable with the plan I have, let's talk about something else" and THEN DON'T TALK ABOUT IT AGAIN. If she tries to physically intervene, you have to leave. You can do it with compassion - "I am sorry you are feeling anxious right now, I understand how difficult that is, but this is what I'm doing." "Sounds like something you can talk about with your therapist." If she insists ""are you trying to have [TERRIBLE THING] happen??" You can say, "No, and I don't think that's likely to happen, so I'm not interested in debating it. What can you do right now to feel better, Mom?" and then suggest whatever distraction or thing she likes (hang out with a pet, knit, cook or bake, read, listen to music, have a drink, go for a walk, whatever).
You can be there for her without engaging with the anxiety by saying something like, I'm not going to discuss this anymore, but I'd love to take a walk around the neighborhood or go for a drive, or help you bake some cookies, or play with the dog in the yard or whatever. It's good to have a few of these things in mind when you visit her. Maybe you can even start a new "tradition" of distraction together working on a project or doing something. Are there any activities she likes doing around the house or creative things? Try to get familiar with them.
(For years I asked my mom to move to a place with outdoor space because she loves to garden, hoping I could garden with her, but her fear of change never allowed that to happen, so she has like 20 houseplants in her tiny apartment and that's it. Unfortunately, the houseplants don't require that much maintenance for us to do.) When I was a kid we made fresh pasta with a pasta machine, which is time consuming and fiddly and a great way to pass an afternoon.
I don't find the boundary setting part hard. What I find hard is fighting the reactionary wave of guilt that comes when I disengage, as well as the grief that I feel, knowing there are large parts of my life experience and worldview my mother will never understand or relate to, and will only ever react to with unwarranted fear and anxiety. There is also a grief of looking back at my own life and seeing how much I missed out on, because for so long I shared some of that anxiety in my worldview.
The grief has been hardest to process. The guilt I have learned to talk myself through. Definitely seek the help of a therapist for both. You really have to internalize that there's nothing you can do to interrupt this cycle for her, so you have to take care of your own mental health and wellbeing. Same goes for your dad. It's hard. I'm sorry you're going through this.
posted by zdravo at 12:07 PM on January 27, 2022 [29 favorites]
Best answer: OMG Metafilter has absolutely saved my life on this question. This is my mom too, and I would be so, so much worse if it weren't for the advice given here over the years.
My mother doesn't just have anxiety, but she also has this manipulative/bullying/guilting thing as well which says to me, "you're a horrible person if you don't completely agree with me always."
I'm 52 now, and it took me a while, but basically the only thing you can do is 1) keep pushing back and 2) accept that even with pushing back, it won't go away. Having a calm demeanor helps. There were many times I'd go home and eat a bag of Doritos and take deep breaths and repeat to myself "it's not you, it's her; it's not you, it's her ..."
Nowadays, when she gets upset about things, I just say very quietly, "I can't manage your anxiety for you" and "I'm sorry that you don't agree with my choice." There was a recent manipulative example when I went on a short driving trip to maintain my sanity, and she was absolutely adamant that I not go due to covid. (It was a trip to a rural area, and I stayed distant from everyone.) But did she start the conversation with that? No. She called me and with no introduction said "I think you should start seeing a therapist." What? "So that you can explore the issues as to why you need a trip to maintain your sanity. What is it about your sanity that you need to maintain?" ranting a little sorry
In the olden days, we would have gotten into a long argument about whether or not I need a therapist, or I might have lied to shut her up by saying, yes, ok, I'll look into therapy. But now I'm just too exhausted to say anything but the truth, and I said quietly, "I'm sorry that you don't agree with my choice." "But you'll get covid!" "I'm sorry that you don't agree with my choice." "But you don't know what you're doing! I'm your mother! I know better than you!" "I'm sorry that you don't agree with my choice."
Then I went on the trip, and ate a small bag of Doritos, and felt better.
posted by sockerpup at 12:15 PM on January 27, 2022 [45 favorites]
My mother doesn't just have anxiety, but she also has this manipulative/bullying/guilting thing as well which says to me, "you're a horrible person if you don't completely agree with me always."
I'm 52 now, and it took me a while, but basically the only thing you can do is 1) keep pushing back and 2) accept that even with pushing back, it won't go away. Having a calm demeanor helps. There were many times I'd go home and eat a bag of Doritos and take deep breaths and repeat to myself "it's not you, it's her; it's not you, it's her ..."
Nowadays, when she gets upset about things, I just say very quietly, "I can't manage your anxiety for you" and "I'm sorry that you don't agree with my choice." There was a recent manipulative example when I went on a short driving trip to maintain my sanity, and she was absolutely adamant that I not go due to covid. (It was a trip to a rural area, and I stayed distant from everyone.) But did she start the conversation with that? No. She called me and with no introduction said "I think you should start seeing a therapist." What? "So that you can explore the issues as to why you need a trip to maintain your sanity. What is it about your sanity that you need to maintain?" ranting a little sorry
In the olden days, we would have gotten into a long argument about whether or not I need a therapist, or I might have lied to shut her up by saying, yes, ok, I'll look into therapy. But now I'm just too exhausted to say anything but the truth, and I said quietly, "I'm sorry that you don't agree with my choice." "But you'll get covid!" "I'm sorry that you don't agree with my choice." "But you don't know what you're doing! I'm your mother! I know better than you!" "I'm sorry that you don't agree with my choice."
Then I went on the trip, and ate a small bag of Doritos, and felt better.
posted by sockerpup at 12:15 PM on January 27, 2022 [45 favorites]
I also have this mother. Most of the time I just say 'ok I've heard you and your opinion and I've decided otherwise, which is what's best for me' and she'll keep going and going and going and eventually when she comes up for air, I'll repeat the same thing. Then she keeps going and going and at the next break I'll just be silent and when she asks me for a response I'll just say 'you have my response' and then grey rock her until she changes the subject. Sometimes I'll slip a 'It's not up to me to manage your anxiety. I'm taking necessary precautions to move forward with my choice safely. Any issue you have with that you are welcome to keep to yourself because I have already spoken my piece and if you continue talking about it I will leave/hang up' and walk away or hang up. It was so much worse as a kid because I felt like a prisoner, but as an adult, it's so freeing to just cut off the conversation.
posted by greta simone at 12:49 PM on January 27, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by greta simone at 12:49 PM on January 27, 2022 [5 favorites]
Oh man, we are in the thick of this ourselves. It has been very difficult to know where to draw the lines and boundaries, especially as in our case our mother's anxiety and other mental health conditions have put her in actual danger and caused tremendous problems for her overall life. It sounds like our situation is a little different from yours (my mother's anxiety doesn't make her tell us how to do things; it prevents HER from doing anything).
But in my own case what I have done is slowly, over time, work out what exactly I can handle and then that...is all I handle. I then communicate to her, clearly, what I am going to do, and make sure to explicitly say that I understand her anxieties and this is the extent of what I can do about them. This does involve being a little cold to her guilt trips and tears--which takes practice. And it also involves me definitely holding up my end of the bargain! If I say, "I have to go and take care of my housework now, but I will call you tomorrow," then I do actually call her tomorrow.
And as much as possible, I try to offer things that help her tackle her own fears and problems, rather than just removing them. For example, "I am not going to travel across the state in a pandemic to fix your internet. But why don't we start a FaceTime and you show me what's up, and I can walk you through a restart."
It's really hard. They're your mom, you just want them to be happy and have an easy life. But that's not necessarily in your power here. As we get older, it can start to seem like our parents are actually the children in the equation, but (barring dementia-type conditions) they are in fact full, capable, adult humans, and to a certain extent if they want to make themselves miserable, that is their right, and not your responsibility.
I hope you are able to find therapy support for everyone involved--it will really help so much, having third parties to navigate all of this with.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 12:51 PM on January 27, 2022 [5 favorites]
But in my own case what I have done is slowly, over time, work out what exactly I can handle and then that...is all I handle. I then communicate to her, clearly, what I am going to do, and make sure to explicitly say that I understand her anxieties and this is the extent of what I can do about them. This does involve being a little cold to her guilt trips and tears--which takes practice. And it also involves me definitely holding up my end of the bargain! If I say, "I have to go and take care of my housework now, but I will call you tomorrow," then I do actually call her tomorrow.
And as much as possible, I try to offer things that help her tackle her own fears and problems, rather than just removing them. For example, "I am not going to travel across the state in a pandemic to fix your internet. But why don't we start a FaceTime and you show me what's up, and I can walk you through a restart."
It's really hard. They're your mom, you just want them to be happy and have an easy life. But that's not necessarily in your power here. As we get older, it can start to seem like our parents are actually the children in the equation, but (barring dementia-type conditions) they are in fact full, capable, adult humans, and to a certain extent if they want to make themselves miserable, that is their right, and not your responsibility.
I hope you are able to find therapy support for everyone involved--it will really help so much, having third parties to navigate all of this with.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 12:51 PM on January 27, 2022 [5 favorites]
I would have to have a scenario to understand. But I may do exactly what I did with my toddler. Acknowledge and then calm, and give them an action. I'll switch it a bit for a likely mom scenario. "I know you are concerned about me driving there in the dark, and that makes sense. Cars were so much more unsafe as you were growing up. My car has amazing headlights and visibility, airbags all over, and is one of the best rated for safety, and I am a very cautious driver. I haven't been in an accident in XYZ years, and even then it was a minor fender bender. I promise mom, I'll be thinking of you and will extra cautious. Do you wanna text me later to make sure I'm safe? "
When I am anxious about something with my husband, if he blows me off I am MORE anxious. Like now I have to worry for the both of us! Pretend you worry a bit too so you can take a bit of her worry away.
posted by ReluctantViking at 1:00 PM on January 27, 2022 [12 favorites]
When I am anxious about something with my husband, if he blows me off I am MORE anxious. Like now I have to worry for the both of us! Pretend you worry a bit too so you can take a bit of her worry away.
posted by ReluctantViking at 1:00 PM on January 27, 2022 [12 favorites]
ReluctantViking is giving you good advice. I was a very anxious person in my marriage because I was the only one who ever worried about anything. The more I worried, the more my husband became entrenched in his position that everything was FINE, which put me in the position of ever more strenuously insisting that everything was NOT FINE. I'm in a better relationship now, one where my partner is willing to see my point of view, and I'm so much less anxious I'm almost unrecognizable to myself. So you really do have the ability to affect her anxiety--I mean, I can't guarantee it, but there's a good chance that acknowledging and sharing (or pretending to share) the anxiety will have a beneficial effect.
posted by HotToddy at 1:09 PM on January 27, 2022 [7 favorites]
posted by HotToddy at 1:09 PM on January 27, 2022 [7 favorites]
I was more adventurous than most people my age when I was in my 20s. I traveled overseas alone, moved to a new place, etc. I got a lot of OMG and waving of arms, etc. ReluctantViking is spot-on. Lots of reassurance while you do it anyway.
Distraction helps. Teach her to knit, do puzzles, any mildly interesting activity will help her occupy her brain. Load her smartphone with tetris, bejeweled and other games.
If she isn't exercising and using breathing and other physical techniques, there's a lot that helps.
Remind her a little bit that it's her anxiety reacting, that she was anxious when you did this or that, and that you have good sense and were okay last time.
posted by theora55 at 2:14 PM on January 27, 2022
Distraction helps. Teach her to knit, do puzzles, any mildly interesting activity will help her occupy her brain. Load her smartphone with tetris, bejeweled and other games.
If she isn't exercising and using breathing and other physical techniques, there's a lot that helps.
Remind her a little bit that it's her anxiety reacting, that she was anxious when you did this or that, and that you have good sense and were okay last time.
posted by theora55 at 2:14 PM on January 27, 2022
It may be that you have unintentionally rewarded your mother's worst anxiety. If she's anxious, and you don't do what she wants, but then she gets REALLY anxious and you do -- well, that's a reward for her for being REALLY anxious. What a sucky cycle to be stuck in. I agree with zdravo that this is very much about control and her inability to control -- the world, you, etc. I don't know if it's all useful to think of her as controlling rather than anxious. Maybe, in a way, that makes it easier to start to think about setting boundaries? Because here's the thing: she'll never have the control she wants, and getting more of it doesn't help reduce her anxiety, not really.
I also note that you said her anxiety has been a big problem for the past ten years and that you are 30. Is some of this about you being an adult and out and about in the world, and your mom trying to reel you back into her sphere of influence? Maybe it was easier for her to feel like she had control when you (and perhaps siblings?) were closer to home.
It sounds like you want to be supportive of your mom. I think you would also benefit by letting go of the idea that it's your job to help your mom manage her emotions. It's not clear that supporting her in the ways she wants is actually helpful to her or you in the long run. You all said her anxiety is more exhausting to her than to you -- but, again, you're super focused on your mom's emotions here. I mean, of course you are, because she's throwing big emotions at you! I think folks here have given you some really good strategies. I do think you have to get out of the cycle of in any way rewarding her anxiety, whether you mean to or not.
posted by bluedaisy at 2:18 PM on January 27, 2022 [1 favorite]
I also note that you said her anxiety has been a big problem for the past ten years and that you are 30. Is some of this about you being an adult and out and about in the world, and your mom trying to reel you back into her sphere of influence? Maybe it was easier for her to feel like she had control when you (and perhaps siblings?) were closer to home.
It sounds like you want to be supportive of your mom. I think you would also benefit by letting go of the idea that it's your job to help your mom manage her emotions. It's not clear that supporting her in the ways she wants is actually helpful to her or you in the long run. You all said her anxiety is more exhausting to her than to you -- but, again, you're super focused on your mom's emotions here. I mean, of course you are, because she's throwing big emotions at you! I think folks here have given you some really good strategies. I do think you have to get out of the cycle of in any way rewarding her anxiety, whether you mean to or not.
posted by bluedaisy at 2:18 PM on January 27, 2022 [1 favorite]
Individual therapy for everyone is great, no objections there, but might not a bit of family therapy be helpful with boundary stuff? One of the nice things about couples/family therapy is that there is someone there, hearing her tell you you're crazy. That person is not a line judge, of course, but may be able to help your mother understand what she's doing to your relationship with her.
posted by less-of-course at 2:39 PM on January 27, 2022
posted by less-of-course at 2:39 PM on January 27, 2022
Best answer: Lots of conflicting advice here! I guess that means you get to try out different approaches and see what works for you....
The clinical advice that I got in dealing with this with anxious children is that anxieties are like vines - the more attention you give them, the more they grow. Because of that, reassurances - especially repeated, extended, detailed reassurances - only validate the anxiety and make it stronger in the long run. That goes DOUBLE for actually giving into the anxiety and curtailing your activities. Giving in makes the comfort bubble shrink, not grow.
We were taught to do ONE calm, loving, logic-based reassurance, and then gently let the person know that that particular issue was no longer up for discussion. When they brought the issue back up, we'd just say, 'we already discussed it, let's move on to something else. It was enormously helpful for everyone, and ultimately much more kind than joining into the worry-reassure-worry-reassure-worry dance-spiral that we had been engaged in before.
posted by Ausamor at 2:43 PM on January 27, 2022 [21 favorites]
The clinical advice that I got in dealing with this with anxious children is that anxieties are like vines - the more attention you give them, the more they grow. Because of that, reassurances - especially repeated, extended, detailed reassurances - only validate the anxiety and make it stronger in the long run. That goes DOUBLE for actually giving into the anxiety and curtailing your activities. Giving in makes the comfort bubble shrink, not grow.
We were taught to do ONE calm, loving, logic-based reassurance, and then gently let the person know that that particular issue was no longer up for discussion. When they brought the issue back up, we'd just say, 'we already discussed it, let's move on to something else. It was enormously helpful for everyone, and ultimately much more kind than joining into the worry-reassure-worry-reassure-worry dance-spiral that we had been engaged in before.
posted by Ausamor at 2:43 PM on January 27, 2022 [21 favorites]
Best answer: I just want to provide some reassurance that the beginning of enforcing boundaries is hard and stressful, but once you start using that muscle it strengthens really quickly. Even if your mother never takes it down a notch, you will have that internal feeling of oh, I am actually doing the appropriate thing here and wow is it easier to just stay calm and not feel guilty or catch another person's anxiety when you are confident in your position.
It doesn't entirely erase the exhaustion of dealing with someone else's big feels, but it does dampen it.
posted by Lyn Never at 2:47 PM on January 27, 2022 [10 favorites]
It doesn't entirely erase the exhaustion of dealing with someone else's big feels, but it does dampen it.
posted by Lyn Never at 2:47 PM on January 27, 2022 [10 favorites]
She's been through some major traumas and she is medicated for severe depression and anxiety. Her anxiety has been a huge presence in our lives for at least the last ten years.
You and your mother might both find it useful to read The Body Keeps The Score, which goes into quite some detail on the kinds of physical changes that trauma makes to the brain and might help you understand each other better.
posted by flabdablet at 5:46 PM on January 27, 2022 [2 favorites]
You and your mother might both find it useful to read The Body Keeps The Score, which goes into quite some detail on the kinds of physical changes that trauma makes to the brain and might help you understand each other better.
posted by flabdablet at 5:46 PM on January 27, 2022 [2 favorites]
not to be glib but "she is medicated for severe depression and anxiety" - really does not sound like it's working very well at all.
the fact that she's taking medication is good, as that's a big opening. I wonder if an approach you could take (in addition to all the other ones) would be to push back on this issue and reflect some of this back to her? "Gee mom, you are working with Dr. X on this and taking medicine Y and Z, but sometimes I feel like maybe you aren't getting the relief you really deserve, as you seem so (anxious/depressed/distraught) to me. Can I help you talk to Dr. X about this? Let's make a list of things that the medicine is or is not doing to help, so on your next visit Dr. X can understand"
posted by soylent00FF00 at 6:04 PM on January 27, 2022 [1 favorite]
the fact that she's taking medication is good, as that's a big opening. I wonder if an approach you could take (in addition to all the other ones) would be to push back on this issue and reflect some of this back to her? "Gee mom, you are working with Dr. X on this and taking medicine Y and Z, but sometimes I feel like maybe you aren't getting the relief you really deserve, as you seem so (anxious/depressed/distraught) to me. Can I help you talk to Dr. X about this? Let's make a list of things that the medicine is or is not doing to help, so on your next visit Dr. X can understand"
posted by soylent00FF00 at 6:04 PM on January 27, 2022 [1 favorite]
To be honest, the way that I have dealt with this is by telling my mother very little about what is going on in my life. I just don't give her a chance to weigh in.
posted by amaire at 7:14 PM on January 27, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by amaire at 7:14 PM on January 27, 2022 [5 favorites]
It's interesting to me that she's open to seeing a therapist and is already medicated. This doesn't sound like the medication is working, honestly. The thing about anxiety is that when you're anxious it's SOOO much work to keep things in perspective and not give in, and then those things fade away when you're not. Anything you can do to help her prevent the anxiety will be far better. (This isn't to say "don't also enforce boundaries" or "her anxiety is your problem to solve.")
What about a gentle conversation about how, while you're still trying to find a therapist, she could talk to the prescribing psychiatrist about whether the medicine is working?
posted by slidell at 11:29 PM on January 27, 2022
What about a gentle conversation about how, while you're still trying to find a therapist, she could talk to the prescribing psychiatrist about whether the medicine is working?
posted by slidell at 11:29 PM on January 27, 2022
I just realised that this is kind of similar to trip sitting someone who is having a very anxious, bad trip, looking after someone having a non-drug induced psychotic break with a lot of paranoid fears. Experience with the latter meant I've ended up looking after a series of people at festivals who had lost touch with reality and everyone else was having trouble dealing with (hey, at least I started getting festival tickets out of it as a volunteer rather than just doing it *anyway*).
I dunno how much of this is translatable to people having irrational but not fully-broken-with-reality-fears, but I'm going to talk about how I've dealt with that, incase there's any useful crossover, because it seems similar, it's just a matter of degree kinda?
I think maybe it looks harder when the anxieties look semi-rational, but there's a point where you realise you can't go along with someone's anxieties because there truly *aren't* any assassins about to kill them tonight, that there isn't a gun hidden in someone's food wrap, and that we are not trying to poison them with water or food etc. And you also realise that going along with that genuinely won't make them less anxious...
I'm guessing some of the irrational anxieties being raised more sound a lot more plausible than the ones above, but fundamentally, they aren't actually any more real?
In those situations, the things I have found that help is - first thing, people tend to mirror the emotions, and empathise with whoever they're talking too. With someone really anxious, don't. If you get stressed or frustrated because they're anxious/scared/stressed, they pick up on your stress, and it just makes them more anxious, and you're in a feedback loop. People tend to equate 'caring' with mirroring emotions, but it just makes anxious people feel more scared - it's not the compassionate thing to do if you do care for them, ironically.
They're in a heavy sea of big scary feelings, and you want to be a nice calm rock for them to be able to anchor too. Just imagine you're pretty much radiating a sense of calm and safety and compassion, and that you basically love them (if they're a stranger, in the mild way that you care for all humans kind of? But really focus on that). That that's like, the first useful thing you can do.
And then, I guess, I've had moments with both people having psychotic episodes and, well, I guess drug induced temporary psychotic episodes, where I've said something like, "I know you feel unsafe/etc, and it's hard for you to trust/believe us right now, but I believe/know we are safe." I've followed up with saying that I'm going to do my best to keep us safe (for people in drug trips worried they were being harmed), or even kind of said that I know that they had trouble telling what was real or believing things, but I'd be here believing they were safe for the both of us (Uh, that kind of made more sense at the time).
That seems really simple, but, I dunno, they're really anxious, they don't really *want* to believe their worst fears are true, they just think it's too risky not to act as if they are. On some level they usually want an option that lets them feel less scared, as long as it seems like it's from someone really trustworthy, not *risky*.
And just radiating a rock solid surety in that.
It's easy to get pulled into someone else's uncertainty or fears or unsureness, but I dunno how to put it - someone who's anxious is hung up on the possibility of danger, but they don't really have a rock solid certainty on anything really, let alone a particular fear, and so being a kind of unshakeable calm confident rock can be really helpful for them?
If they bring up the fear, just really calmly and confidently state that you feel that you will be safe, that you've taken reasonable precautions or whatever, then redirect to a new topic.
If they bring it up again, provide less justification not more, just state that you are confident that you & they are safe etc, then redirect to a new topic.
Physical need babysitting:
Even with adults, think of it like a kid having an emotional meltdown, and how frequently it's because they have a physical need they haven't met? Are they tired, hungry, cold, in pain? Usually yeah. Adults also have this going on.
I think the 'give someone a cup of tea' is so ingrained because it is a quick fix if someone is dehydrated, hungry/low on sugar, cold, tired, and gives them something to do with their hands (a distractor).
I guess another wrinkle is, the times I've been in this situation dealing with strangers having drug induced bad trips, they calmed down when I did the above, but they did often decide I was maybe a benevolent authority figure, like... God. Or NZ Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern. Or the director of the play we were all in.
Uh, I know that sounds weird, but I think that's what makes it especially hard with a parent - because with an irrationally anxious person, you're most useful when you're radiating the kind of calm, unflappable compassion that I think many people are kind of hoping to get from parental authority figures? And so if you're the child, you're kind of flipping the script.
But sometimes you kind of do have to. Like, almost mentally check out of the situation as former-child, and step back in as the 'calm professional adult'.
I was gonna stop there, but this also seems related there's little cycles or patterns that people we know kind of like to get us stuck in, and it's interesting how when we kind of opt out of them, the pattern can get shaken up. And there are ways that family members act with us, and they wouldn't act like that around strangers.
It's not quite the same, but I have an estranged father who, when I'd visit each year, would kind of always insist I help them, because otherwise I was lazy or some other insult, but it would always be something that seemed like it was setting me up for failure?? Eh, hard to explain.
One holiday I just pretended like I was this adult stranger, I dunno how to explain better. Put myself firmly in the role of an adult professional guest, was kind of more formal, gave them a bottle of wine when I arrived (not actually something either of us would do or even necessarily *like*, but I knew it would make them feel like I was an adult guest rather than I guess me when I was a child or teenager??), I kind of took charge and told them what I/we would be doing for next few days rather than trying to be considerate and fitting in with them.
I cooked a meal (I'd always offered, but this time I kind of steamrolled and just said I was doing it, and didn't try to make food like they normally have, but did a vegetarian curry so it was *different* too) and just decided to take up a gardening project. These were things I can do semi-competently, rather than the weird setting-me-up-for-failure tasks they always seemed to insist on. I flatly declined options that sounded like they were going down the same old patterns, and just announced what was happening instead.
Anyway, I'd actually tried to accommodate him *less*, and yet he clearly respected me more, he seemed... impressed, and the holiday went better.
posted by Elysum at 7:17 AM on January 28, 2022 [2 favorites]
I dunno how much of this is translatable to people having irrational but not fully-broken-with-reality-fears, but I'm going to talk about how I've dealt with that, incase there's any useful crossover, because it seems similar, it's just a matter of degree kinda?
I think maybe it looks harder when the anxieties look semi-rational, but there's a point where you realise you can't go along with someone's anxieties because there truly *aren't* any assassins about to kill them tonight, that there isn't a gun hidden in someone's food wrap, and that we are not trying to poison them with water or food etc. And you also realise that going along with that genuinely won't make them less anxious...
I'm guessing some of the irrational anxieties being raised more sound a lot more plausible than the ones above, but fundamentally, they aren't actually any more real?
In those situations, the things I have found that help is - first thing, people tend to mirror the emotions, and empathise with whoever they're talking too. With someone really anxious, don't. If you get stressed or frustrated because they're anxious/scared/stressed, they pick up on your stress, and it just makes them more anxious, and you're in a feedback loop. People tend to equate 'caring' with mirroring emotions, but it just makes anxious people feel more scared - it's not the compassionate thing to do if you do care for them, ironically.
They're in a heavy sea of big scary feelings, and you want to be a nice calm rock for them to be able to anchor too. Just imagine you're pretty much radiating a sense of calm and safety and compassion, and that you basically love them (if they're a stranger, in the mild way that you care for all humans kind of? But really focus on that). That that's like, the first useful thing you can do.
And then, I guess, I've had moments with both people having psychotic episodes and, well, I guess drug induced temporary psychotic episodes, where I've said something like, "I know you feel unsafe/etc, and it's hard for you to trust/believe us right now, but I believe/know we are safe." I've followed up with saying that I'm going to do my best to keep us safe (for people in drug trips worried they were being harmed), or even kind of said that I know that they had trouble telling what was real or believing things, but I'd be here believing they were safe for the both of us (Uh, that kind of made more sense at the time).
That seems really simple, but, I dunno, they're really anxious, they don't really *want* to believe their worst fears are true, they just think it's too risky not to act as if they are. On some level they usually want an option that lets them feel less scared, as long as it seems like it's from someone really trustworthy, not *risky*.
And just radiating a rock solid surety in that.
It's easy to get pulled into someone else's uncertainty or fears or unsureness, but I dunno how to put it - someone who's anxious is hung up on the possibility of danger, but they don't really have a rock solid certainty on anything really, let alone a particular fear, and so being a kind of unshakeable calm confident rock can be really helpful for them?
If they bring up the fear, just really calmly and confidently state that you feel that you will be safe, that you've taken reasonable precautions or whatever, then redirect to a new topic.
If they bring it up again, provide less justification not more, just state that you are confident that you & they are safe etc, then redirect to a new topic.
Physical need babysitting:
Even with adults, think of it like a kid having an emotional meltdown, and how frequently it's because they have a physical need they haven't met? Are they tired, hungry, cold, in pain? Usually yeah. Adults also have this going on.
I think the 'give someone a cup of tea' is so ingrained because it is a quick fix if someone is dehydrated, hungry/low on sugar, cold, tired, and gives them something to do with their hands (a distractor).
I guess another wrinkle is, the times I've been in this situation dealing with strangers having drug induced bad trips, they calmed down when I did the above, but they did often decide I was maybe a benevolent authority figure, like... God. Or NZ Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern. Or the director of the play we were all in.
Uh, I know that sounds weird, but I think that's what makes it especially hard with a parent - because with an irrationally anxious person, you're most useful when you're radiating the kind of calm, unflappable compassion that I think many people are kind of hoping to get from parental authority figures? And so if you're the child, you're kind of flipping the script.
But sometimes you kind of do have to. Like, almost mentally check out of the situation as former-child, and step back in as the 'calm professional adult'.
I was gonna stop there, but this also seems related there's little cycles or patterns that people we know kind of like to get us stuck in, and it's interesting how when we kind of opt out of them, the pattern can get shaken up. And there are ways that family members act with us, and they wouldn't act like that around strangers.
It's not quite the same, but I have an estranged father who, when I'd visit each year, would kind of always insist I help them, because otherwise I was lazy or some other insult, but it would always be something that seemed like it was setting me up for failure?? Eh, hard to explain.
One holiday I just pretended like I was this adult stranger, I dunno how to explain better. Put myself firmly in the role of an adult professional guest, was kind of more formal, gave them a bottle of wine when I arrived (not actually something either of us would do or even necessarily *like*, but I knew it would make them feel like I was an adult guest rather than I guess me when I was a child or teenager??), I kind of took charge and told them what I/we would be doing for next few days rather than trying to be considerate and fitting in with them.
I cooked a meal (I'd always offered, but this time I kind of steamrolled and just said I was doing it, and didn't try to make food like they normally have, but did a vegetarian curry so it was *different* too) and just decided to take up a gardening project. These were things I can do semi-competently, rather than the weird setting-me-up-for-failure tasks they always seemed to insist on. I flatly declined options that sounded like they were going down the same old patterns, and just announced what was happening instead.
Anyway, I'd actually tried to accommodate him *less*, and yet he clearly respected me more, he seemed... impressed, and the holiday went better.
posted by Elysum at 7:17 AM on January 28, 2022 [2 favorites]
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I stuck to it, and she realised I was serious. That was over a decade ago and it changed our relationship permanently. She now tries very hard not to put pressure on me or to burden me with her anxiety. I know part of her is still worried about losing me, and that makes me sad for her, but I am so much happier than I was, and so is she. Because when she doesn't stress me out in unreasonable ways then I like being around her and want to spend more time with her. She sees the net benefit. Don't get me wrong, she fails a lot, especially as time passes and she gets older. She's still an anxious person. But it bothers me less, because I know she is trying, so I can breezily change the subject and she will get the drift.
I know I was lucky, this doesn't work for everyone. But I had no idea my mum was going to do come around, and I was willing to put my mental health first to survive. You can give her a chance to change and hope that she will take it. Sending lots of good vibes and luck.
posted by guessthis at 12:04 PM on January 27, 2022 [6 favorites]