Help a professor deal with the koolaid drinkers
January 23, 2022 8:47 AM Subscribe
What resource(s) can I post in my online Federal Government course to deal with students who still think “Democrats stole the presidential elections”? I would prefer if it was just one link/resource, but could link to other sources.
I would like to post some sort of link(s) to resources with obviously credible information, preferably all in one place. Usually something concise is more effective but that might not be possible. Even if the MAGA folks don’t read it, at least the other students will have this resource at hand. Got any ideas? Know anything similar?
I don’t want it to become a debate or a back-and-forth with those students. I am not the crazy person whisperer - and honestly I’m not paid enough for that.
For the record: this is a required course at a university, so all sorts of majors.
Help! Thank you!
I would like to post some sort of link(s) to resources with obviously credible information, preferably all in one place. Usually something concise is more effective but that might not be possible. Even if the MAGA folks don’t read it, at least the other students will have this resource at hand. Got any ideas? Know anything similar?
I don’t want it to become a debate or a back-and-forth with those students. I am not the crazy person whisperer - and honestly I’m not paid enough for that.
For the record: this is a required course at a university, so all sorts of majors.
Help! Thank you!
Best answer: it's not a deficit of factual information, it's an unwillingness to change attititude.
all the links in the world won't help. parts 1-3 are useful to hear in order, up to 4, as new research unfolds.
posted by j_curiouser at 10:31 AM on January 23, 2022 [10 favorites]
all the links in the world won't help. parts 1-3 are useful to hear in order, up to 4, as new research unfolds.
posted by j_curiouser at 10:31 AM on January 23, 2022 [10 favorites]
Best answer: maybe useful...
republican DAs and other LE can't find fraud.
R judges can't find fraud
R election officers can't find fraud.
Bill Barr and his FBI can't find fraud.
the individuals most highly motivated to find large scale voter fraud can't find it.
posted by j_curiouser at 10:33 AM on January 23, 2022 [6 favorites]
republican DAs and other LE can't find fraud.
R judges can't find fraud
R election officers can't find fraud.
Bill Barr and his FBI can't find fraud.
the individuals most highly motivated to find large scale voter fraud can't find it.
posted by j_curiouser at 10:33 AM on January 23, 2022 [6 favorites]
it's not a deficit of factual information, it's an unwillingness to change attititude.
If we're talking about college students, it's entirely possible that they're coming out of an environment where they have faced a deficit of factual information, and this is entirely the necessary antidote.
posted by NotMyselfRightNow at 11:47 AM on January 23, 2022 [17 favorites]
If we're talking about college students, it's entirely possible that they're coming out of an environment where they have faced a deficit of factual information, and this is entirely the necessary antidote.
posted by NotMyselfRightNow at 11:47 AM on January 23, 2022 [17 favorites]
The burden of proof is on the person who makes the claim. Ask them to write a paper about it. Have them provide written proof with citations from legitimate sources. And make them back up what constitutes a legitimate source.
posted by ananci at 12:04 PM on January 23, 2022 [22 favorites]
posted by ananci at 12:04 PM on January 23, 2022 [22 favorites]
I would have to agree with j curiouser: rather than posting objective journalism, consider posting a politically neutral, well written article on flexible world view. I'm sorry I don't have anything more specific at the moment.
posted by firstdaffodils at 12:22 PM on January 23, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by firstdaffodils at 12:22 PM on January 23, 2022 [2 favorites]
I like ananci's approach.
Regardless of any given student's side in this debate, they can ask themselves how they arrived at their views and how a logical, rational person might have come to the opposite conclusion. Gathering and presenting evidence themselves and teaching them how to analyse it seems like a good solution to that, if it fits within your course. And seeing the opposing viewpoint laid bare is also no bad thing.
posted by How much is that froggie in the window at 1:00 PM on January 23, 2022 [6 favorites]
Regardless of any given student's side in this debate, they can ask themselves how they arrived at their views and how a logical, rational person might have come to the opposite conclusion. Gathering and presenting evidence themselves and teaching them how to analyse it seems like a good solution to that, if it fits within your course. And seeing the opposing viewpoint laid bare is also no bad thing.
posted by How much is that froggie in the window at 1:00 PM on January 23, 2022 [6 favorites]
It doesn't really feel like a teacher's place to engage in this kind of partisan bickering imo. I'd treat it just like flat earthers. If they asked in particular I'd say something like
"when you go through life you have to update your belief based on the evidence you're presented with. If you only listen to a certain source, some pretty radical claims can start sounding true. We should all compare new information to what we believe in both directions. However, all the evidence I've seen has led me to believe that the claims around that are pretty unfounded. Of course, I'd be happy to discuss any particular claim, like of polling results in a certain state, or something, after class, I think we should use classtime to prepare yourself for X."
posted by bbqturtle at 1:48 PM on January 23, 2022 [1 favorite]
"when you go through life you have to update your belief based on the evidence you're presented with. If you only listen to a certain source, some pretty radical claims can start sounding true. We should all compare new information to what we believe in both directions. However, all the evidence I've seen has led me to believe that the claims around that are pretty unfounded. Of course, I'd be happy to discuss any particular claim, like of polling results in a certain state, or something, after class, I think we should use classtime to prepare yourself for X."
posted by bbqturtle at 1:48 PM on January 23, 2022 [1 favorite]
As a young person, I grew up in a very conservative household (both religious and political). It wasn’t until I went to college that I began to really learn that there were new ways to see the world, different ways to be a human. This process took time.
Some students who may appear “willfully ignorant” simply need time and space to learn what it looks like to fully engage in the process of critical thinking. College campuses can provide a unique opportunity for students to interact with ideas while (often) away from their families and familiar social groups. The peer review process isn’t often applied to conspiracy theories. I suspect that this is often why college campuses are frequently criticized by the far right as being liberal bastions (even if they’re not).
Giving students the chance to interact with educated, well-researched sources is a gift. Thank you for the work you’re doing.
posted by WaspEnterprises at 6:46 PM on January 23, 2022 [5 favorites]
Some students who may appear “willfully ignorant” simply need time and space to learn what it looks like to fully engage in the process of critical thinking. College campuses can provide a unique opportunity for students to interact with ideas while (often) away from their families and familiar social groups. The peer review process isn’t often applied to conspiracy theories. I suspect that this is often why college campuses are frequently criticized by the far right as being liberal bastions (even if they’re not).
Giving students the chance to interact with educated, well-researched sources is a gift. Thank you for the work you’re doing.
posted by WaspEnterprises at 6:46 PM on January 23, 2022 [5 favorites]
I supposed you can teach the basics of critical thinking, i.e. how to evaluate which information sources can be trusted, and which ones are just faith without any factual evidence to back them up.
A lot of conspiracy thinking is basically circular logic.
Q: Why do you think the election is stolen?
A: Because it is!
Q: But what evidence do you have that it's stolen, when it's been investigated by X, Y, and Z?
A: Because it's a conspiracy and they destroyed the evidence!
Q: So you don't have any evidence for your belief, and the reason that you don't have any evidence is also because of your belief?
A: Yes... Wait... f*** you! You're a part of the conspiracy!
:D
I used to point out financial scams (pyramid schemes, some MLMs, plenty of Ponzi schemes) and there's really no debating the victims enthralled by the scam narrative out of anything. As Fox Muldar supposedly said, "I want to believe." They enjoy belonging to a cult, and they are not swayed by logic. The best you can do is to point out critical thinking resources, and subtly point out how to determine which sources are trustworthy and which ones are not, why getting information from one source is basically subjecting oneself to cult mind control (see Steven Hassan's BITE model) and MAYBE they can deprogram themselves a little at a time, as they start to notice the problems in their thinking, like: "if there's no evidence of fraud after all this, why do I still believe there is? Do I believe in it like religion and faith, instead of logically?"
posted by kschang at 7:44 PM on January 23, 2022 [1 favorite]
A lot of conspiracy thinking is basically circular logic.
Q: Why do you think the election is stolen?
A: Because it is!
Q: But what evidence do you have that it's stolen, when it's been investigated by X, Y, and Z?
A: Because it's a conspiracy and they destroyed the evidence!
Q: So you don't have any evidence for your belief, and the reason that you don't have any evidence is also because of your belief?
A: Yes... Wait... f*** you! You're a part of the conspiracy!
:D
I used to point out financial scams (pyramid schemes, some MLMs, plenty of Ponzi schemes) and there's really no debating the victims enthralled by the scam narrative out of anything. As Fox Muldar supposedly said, "I want to believe." They enjoy belonging to a cult, and they are not swayed by logic. The best you can do is to point out critical thinking resources, and subtly point out how to determine which sources are trustworthy and which ones are not, why getting information from one source is basically subjecting oneself to cult mind control (see Steven Hassan's BITE model) and MAYBE they can deprogram themselves a little at a time, as they start to notice the problems in their thinking, like: "if there's no evidence of fraud after all this, why do I still believe there is? Do I believe in it like religion and faith, instead of logically?"
posted by kschang at 7:44 PM on January 23, 2022 [1 favorite]
I think I would simply declare such political derails as not within the scope of the course and move on. It just isn’t worth your time to engage in what will almost certainly be a fruitless and distracting debate. If the student persists on pushing their politics, put them on notice that doing so will result in their failing the class.
posted by Thorzdad at 3:28 AM on January 24, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by Thorzdad at 3:28 AM on January 24, 2022 [3 favorites]
You may be interested in the writings of Heather Cox Richardson, a Harvard-educated history professor who teaches at Boston College. Each day, she discusses current events and ties them in with historical events, and provides sources.
posted by SillyShepherd at 7:51 PM on January 25, 2022
posted by SillyShepherd at 7:51 PM on January 25, 2022
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posted by box at 10:11 AM on January 23, 2022