I’m having post engagement anxiety…
December 18, 2021 8:13 AM Subscribe
I am 29F and just got engaged a couple of weeks ago. Everything was fine and now I am having major questions about our compatibility.
We have been together for four years and have lived together for three. Everything was pretty much fine, although I felt like we were drifting, no clear goals to work towards. He proposed on December 3rd and I said yes.
I’m really confused. Ever since I was little I decided to live my life as I would if I had children (didn’t do the best job at it). I’ve always thought on every holiday, what would my traditions be if I had little ones? When I pick out things for my home, I think about how I would want my home to look if I was a mother of children. I have financial goals and want to buy a house. I eventually want to move out of the city and into a suburb with good schools. Idk, I think I romanticize the idea of being a mother and having a family of my own. I feel less children will give me a new purpose, focus to my life, hope, someones to care for, it would be such a good step in my development I feel. I would want to raise my children to be good adults, of course. But, as many of you know I have a family history that was very destructive, I was an accident, my dad wanted an abortion, mom only had me because she was extremely religious and didn’t believe in abortion (she turned around on the way to the clinic). Anyway, mom was very mentally ill, both parents were very anusive and neglectful… I just wonder if my idea having children and being a “good parent” are responses from not creeping up so well and wanting to correct that. I have a lot of emotional and self esteem issues from my past.
My SO and I have kinda vaguely discussed children, he’s said in the last he could go either way, and I was like at least that’s not a no. For the past couple days I have been having a ton of anxiety, and he’s noticed I’ve been very withdrawn and stressed and tears. I asked him last night if he wanted kids very out of the blue, and he said maybe, but they’re expensive, and he didn’t want to have kids if he couldn’t really afford it.
So the kids issue is one thing…. There are two other issues, his money habits/lack of goals, and his weed habit.
His parents are both pharmacists who are married, had 4 children intentionally, were very involved and had their kids in many activities, and paid for their college, vacations to Disney etc.. My fiancé went to university for several years, kept changing his major, and eventually dropped, maybe failed, out. We got together and he decided to get a culinary arts degree, he got it and makes at least $45,000 a year. When I met him he had bill collectors calling about a really expensive pockets at home he bought and wasn’t paying for…… I actually broke up with him after 1 year because he was irresponsible, etc… anyways, he paid off that, and we’ve lived together for 3 years. He only has $700 in savings though, he did buy my ring for $1,400 and it took him a year to save that. I was having major anxiety over finances last week, and I signed us up for Dave Ramsey’s Financial Peace University to start on Sunday. He said he doesn’t want to but knows he should be better with money. I also have student loans, $35,000 saved for retirement, and no savings…. I’ve been bad with money because I guess I deal with emotions by spending, I’ve bought almost every single thing in our house, all the furniture, everything. Which leads me to… where is his money going??
He has been smoking weed for a long time. I very occasionally do with him but usually never enjoy it because it sales me paranoid and very anxious. He smokes every single day and a LOT. His best friend will come over about five times a week, and they will get completely stoned. My SO doesn’t act tooo much differently when he is stoned, I can’t really tell, but maybe that’s because he’s always high? His friend is a little much, he lives with his parents, had a decent job (retail management), a ton of money saved, but no interest in a relationship or anything. I asked him how much he was spending on weed a month and he said $200. I feel like it’s probably more, he probably lowballed it. Ideally I do not want a partner who smokes or at least so much. I feel like it is a waste of money and drains your motivation. Most of his college friends smoke, his coworkers all smoke, his dad also partakes.
Several years ago I asked him what his goals are and he said he didn’t have any. I know he mentioned that since his parents are so successful he feels it’s a lot to live up to. I would really like the regular middle class family life I think, but maybe I’m disillusioned. I want to get married, buy a house, become financially healthy, have a couple kids. I’m 29 and it’s starting to sink in now. But then I question if I’ll even be a good parent, because I have a lot of issues from my past, and in reality I’m very awkward around kids, and don’t have good relationships with my own family.
I sometimes feel resentful of the fact that his parents gave him so much and support him so much and never abused him, but that he still doesn’t have skill with money and spends his life high all the time.
I wonder if I have an issue because sometimes I am perfectly happy in our relationship, and then a switch flips and a start seeing it as all bad and stuff. It sucks. Last night I was acting very withdrawn and he went to bed early because she said I’ve been distant and weird.
I don’t know what to do. I have a lot of relationship anxiety in general. The engagement feels like bringing a microscope to our relationship and my life goals. I’m getting old. If I want to have kids I need to soon.
What are your thoughts. I’m scared to face a painful reality. I don’t know what to do. Maybe this will all blow over and I’ll feel better. Ive read engagement anxiety is a real thing.
We have been together for four years and have lived together for three. Everything was pretty much fine, although I felt like we were drifting, no clear goals to work towards. He proposed on December 3rd and I said yes.
I’m really confused. Ever since I was little I decided to live my life as I would if I had children (didn’t do the best job at it). I’ve always thought on every holiday, what would my traditions be if I had little ones? When I pick out things for my home, I think about how I would want my home to look if I was a mother of children. I have financial goals and want to buy a house. I eventually want to move out of the city and into a suburb with good schools. Idk, I think I romanticize the idea of being a mother and having a family of my own. I feel less children will give me a new purpose, focus to my life, hope, someones to care for, it would be such a good step in my development I feel. I would want to raise my children to be good adults, of course. But, as many of you know I have a family history that was very destructive, I was an accident, my dad wanted an abortion, mom only had me because she was extremely religious and didn’t believe in abortion (she turned around on the way to the clinic). Anyway, mom was very mentally ill, both parents were very anusive and neglectful… I just wonder if my idea having children and being a “good parent” are responses from not creeping up so well and wanting to correct that. I have a lot of emotional and self esteem issues from my past.
My SO and I have kinda vaguely discussed children, he’s said in the last he could go either way, and I was like at least that’s not a no. For the past couple days I have been having a ton of anxiety, and he’s noticed I’ve been very withdrawn and stressed and tears. I asked him last night if he wanted kids very out of the blue, and he said maybe, but they’re expensive, and he didn’t want to have kids if he couldn’t really afford it.
So the kids issue is one thing…. There are two other issues, his money habits/lack of goals, and his weed habit.
His parents are both pharmacists who are married, had 4 children intentionally, were very involved and had their kids in many activities, and paid for their college, vacations to Disney etc.. My fiancé went to university for several years, kept changing his major, and eventually dropped, maybe failed, out. We got together and he decided to get a culinary arts degree, he got it and makes at least $45,000 a year. When I met him he had bill collectors calling about a really expensive pockets at home he bought and wasn’t paying for…… I actually broke up with him after 1 year because he was irresponsible, etc… anyways, he paid off that, and we’ve lived together for 3 years. He only has $700 in savings though, he did buy my ring for $1,400 and it took him a year to save that. I was having major anxiety over finances last week, and I signed us up for Dave Ramsey’s Financial Peace University to start on Sunday. He said he doesn’t want to but knows he should be better with money. I also have student loans, $35,000 saved for retirement, and no savings…. I’ve been bad with money because I guess I deal with emotions by spending, I’ve bought almost every single thing in our house, all the furniture, everything. Which leads me to… where is his money going??
He has been smoking weed for a long time. I very occasionally do with him but usually never enjoy it because it sales me paranoid and very anxious. He smokes every single day and a LOT. His best friend will come over about five times a week, and they will get completely stoned. My SO doesn’t act tooo much differently when he is stoned, I can’t really tell, but maybe that’s because he’s always high? His friend is a little much, he lives with his parents, had a decent job (retail management), a ton of money saved, but no interest in a relationship or anything. I asked him how much he was spending on weed a month and he said $200. I feel like it’s probably more, he probably lowballed it. Ideally I do not want a partner who smokes or at least so much. I feel like it is a waste of money and drains your motivation. Most of his college friends smoke, his coworkers all smoke, his dad also partakes.
Several years ago I asked him what his goals are and he said he didn’t have any. I know he mentioned that since his parents are so successful he feels it’s a lot to live up to. I would really like the regular middle class family life I think, but maybe I’m disillusioned. I want to get married, buy a house, become financially healthy, have a couple kids. I’m 29 and it’s starting to sink in now. But then I question if I’ll even be a good parent, because I have a lot of issues from my past, and in reality I’m very awkward around kids, and don’t have good relationships with my own family.
I sometimes feel resentful of the fact that his parents gave him so much and support him so much and never abused him, but that he still doesn’t have skill with money and spends his life high all the time.
I wonder if I have an issue because sometimes I am perfectly happy in our relationship, and then a switch flips and a start seeing it as all bad and stuff. It sucks. Last night I was acting very withdrawn and he went to bed early because she said I’ve been distant and weird.
I don’t know what to do. I have a lot of relationship anxiety in general. The engagement feels like bringing a microscope to our relationship and my life goals. I’m getting old. If I want to have kids I need to soon.
What are your thoughts. I’m scared to face a painful reality. I don’t know what to do. Maybe this will all blow over and I’ll feel better. Ive read engagement anxiety is a real thing.
Take this with a grain of salt since I’m single and childless, but if I had a friend in your position I would suggest not binding yourselves legally til you sort some of this stuff out.
Also, while I’m not recommending it I know plenty of people who’ve had their first or second kids in their late thirties to mid forties and seem happy with that decision. I’m not sure marrying into an uneasy situation asap for the purpose of having kids you’re not 100% certain you want (or so I gathered from the beginning of your post) is the best approach here. People do often meet their partners when they’re a bit older, they have families, and a nice life.
As I once read somewhere: many people climb up the ladder only to eventually realize that it was propped up against the wrong wall.
posted by cultureclash82 at 8:34 AM on December 18, 2021 [23 favorites]
Also, while I’m not recommending it I know plenty of people who’ve had their first or second kids in their late thirties to mid forties and seem happy with that decision. I’m not sure marrying into an uneasy situation asap for the purpose of having kids you’re not 100% certain you want (or so I gathered from the beginning of your post) is the best approach here. People do often meet their partners when they’re a bit older, they have families, and a nice life.
As I once read somewhere: many people climb up the ladder only to eventually realize that it was propped up against the wrong wall.
posted by cultureclash82 at 8:34 AM on December 18, 2021 [23 favorites]
My sibling went through a similar situation with her unmoored, unmotivated, constantly stoned ex. She lived the life of a single parent when she was with him--paying for everything herself, managing the household, raising her kids. She realized after a few years that she would be better off jettisoning the dead weight and just being an actual single parent. Her only regret was getting married in the first place.
posted by yellowcandy at 8:42 AM on December 18, 2021 [13 favorites]
posted by yellowcandy at 8:42 AM on December 18, 2021 [13 favorites]
Response by poster: He is a very kind partner, he does some things around the house like feeding our cats, changing litter boxes, making our dog food, and laundry (he slacks in laundry a bit though). I just feel like he doesn’t have any goals or wishes for his life that he’s working towards. He says thinking of the future stresses him out. He did actually do a half marathon every month this year. He lost a lot of weight previously and has kept it off for years. He wants to set a mew goal of doing a long hike in a new place monthly next year. It’s just that I feel he doesn’t have any interest in being financially healthy and retiring, or owning a home, or having kids. He’s happy getting high, playing video games, whatever. He does pay for his half of all our shared expenses.
posted by anon1129 at 8:47 AM on December 18, 2021
posted by anon1129 at 8:47 AM on December 18, 2021
Don’t do it. You did not mention the word ‘love’ anywhere in your post. If you loved him you could work things out, but if you don’t and you go with the engagement because he proposed, expensive ring, don’t want to waste 4 years, etc. you will be miserable. You and him are in very different places in life and he needs to work things out for himself about his life and goals. If you are after a family life and kids he is not the one.
posted by slimeline at 8:50 AM on December 18, 2021 [12 favorites]
posted by slimeline at 8:50 AM on December 18, 2021 [12 favorites]
Best answer: I think the urge to be a great parent to make up for deficiencies in one's own upbringing is common and understandable. It also doesn't really work that way. Your emotional (and other) needs that didn't get met when you were a child will not be met by being a parent. Any work you can do to identify and meet your own needs and prepare to see the children you have as their own independent people will be critical to making their childhoods supportive and healthy. Parenting is not holidays and furniture - it is a long, long period of difficult physical and emotional work.
What would your life be like if you took the frame of your future children out of the picture, and starting asking yourself things like "What traditions would I enjoy myself this year?" and "How do I want my home to look for me and my own enjoyment?" There's almost a sense you think good things have to be reserved for your hypothetical future children, rather than giving yourself the things you want for your own enjoyment and satisfaction.
All that said, if your goal is to have a suburban, "middle class" life with the house and kids, it doesn't sound like you're going to get there with this dude. Achieving that requires focus, planning, an ability and willingness to do a job that makes enough money to accomplish this (way more than 45k), and then a healthy dose of luck. And an interest in maintaining a house and having kids. It doesn't sound like he has or wants any of that. He doesn't want kids he can't afford, and he is doing nothing to be able afford kids. Ergo, he essentially does not want kids.
Now that you are engaged, it is time to get really clear on goals and values. Not "well he didn't say no" but clearly understanding what he thinks is next for himself and for you two together. What are his goals for himself? For you together as a family? Where does he want to be in 10 years? How strongly does he seem to feel about what he is saying (for example, if he says, "Yeah maybe I could have kids in 10 years but you know only if I can afford it" then he does not feel strongly)? You don't know what he spends money on after 3 years of living together - it is time to find out! Look at account statements together and talk about spending in the context of goals.
If the vision you have described here is important to you, you may have to grapple with the fact that it isn't achievable with this partner. It's okay to love someone and enjoy time spent with them, and also realize that your life plans are not compatible. If having kids is important to you, you need to marry someone who definitely wants kids. If you want to move to the suburbs, your partner should also want that.
posted by jeoc at 8:53 AM on December 18, 2021 [22 favorites]
What would your life be like if you took the frame of your future children out of the picture, and starting asking yourself things like "What traditions would I enjoy myself this year?" and "How do I want my home to look for me and my own enjoyment?" There's almost a sense you think good things have to be reserved for your hypothetical future children, rather than giving yourself the things you want for your own enjoyment and satisfaction.
All that said, if your goal is to have a suburban, "middle class" life with the house and kids, it doesn't sound like you're going to get there with this dude. Achieving that requires focus, planning, an ability and willingness to do a job that makes enough money to accomplish this (way more than 45k), and then a healthy dose of luck. And an interest in maintaining a house and having kids. It doesn't sound like he has or wants any of that. He doesn't want kids he can't afford, and he is doing nothing to be able afford kids. Ergo, he essentially does not want kids.
Now that you are engaged, it is time to get really clear on goals and values. Not "well he didn't say no" but clearly understanding what he thinks is next for himself and for you two together. What are his goals for himself? For you together as a family? Where does he want to be in 10 years? How strongly does he seem to feel about what he is saying (for example, if he says, "Yeah maybe I could have kids in 10 years but you know only if I can afford it" then he does not feel strongly)? You don't know what he spends money on after 3 years of living together - it is time to find out! Look at account statements together and talk about spending in the context of goals.
If the vision you have described here is important to you, you may have to grapple with the fact that it isn't achievable with this partner. It's okay to love someone and enjoy time spent with them, and also realize that your life plans are not compatible. If having kids is important to you, you need to marry someone who definitely wants kids. If you want to move to the suburbs, your partner should also want that.
posted by jeoc at 8:53 AM on December 18, 2021 [22 favorites]
Best answer: Something that's really important to me in life partner types of relationships is having shared goals. We are both interested in heading in the same direction, and supportive of the other in getting there. Not everyone needs this, but I get the impression that you may be looking for a relationship that's more like that, and you're not going to get that from this guy at this point in time.
And different feelings about wanting children is a fundamental incompatibility. If you definitely want children, get together with someone else who is excited about that, not someone who might eventually be willing to.
posted by metasarah at 8:56 AM on December 18, 2021 [5 favorites]
And different feelings about wanting children is a fundamental incompatibility. If you definitely want children, get together with someone else who is excited about that, not someone who might eventually be willing to.
posted by metasarah at 8:56 AM on December 18, 2021 [5 favorites]
The life he wants for himself (setting physical goals, going hiking, getting high and hanging out) sounds totally fine! There's nothing at all wrong with that and if that way of life appeals to you as well, then you're all set! Hang out! Go hiking! Play video games!
If you want something different from that, then you're not compatible long term. It doesn't mean he's bad or you're bad or anything is wrong. It's just a mismatch of goals and everyone is better off moving on to the next things.
posted by jeoc at 8:59 AM on December 18, 2021 [41 favorites]
If you want something different from that, then you're not compatible long term. It doesn't mean he's bad or you're bad or anything is wrong. It's just a mismatch of goals and everyone is better off moving on to the next things.
posted by jeoc at 8:59 AM on December 18, 2021 [41 favorites]
Best answer: I think what you long for is safety and stability. I too had a chaotic upbringing and let me tell you, if I’m right and this is your deepest need, it will be a balm on your soul to be with someone who is solid and reliable. When you feel it, you will know it, and be so thankful to be relieved of that feeling of precarity. And once you do have kids, your need for stability is only going to increase. You seem pretty self-aware. The hard part is acting on it, but please, don’t be like me—I spent most of my adult life close but oh so far from what I really needed. My need to feel secure made it impossible for me to leave. But once I got out of that situation, it turned out that the right guy was not even hard to find. Will that happen for you, who knows, but right now you’re choosing the one thing that will guarantee you don’t get the life you really want.
posted by HotToddy at 8:59 AM on December 18, 2021 [26 favorites]
posted by HotToddy at 8:59 AM on December 18, 2021 [26 favorites]
Throughout your description you say things like “I feel like he doesn’t have goals” or “it seems like he’s not motivated “
So take out the qualifiers and imagine your future with an unmotivated partner who is satisfied with his current level of responsibilities and contributions to the relationship.
posted by calgirl at 9:05 AM on December 18, 2021 [4 favorites]
So take out the qualifiers and imagine your future with an unmotivated partner who is satisfied with his current level of responsibilities and contributions to the relationship.
posted by calgirl at 9:05 AM on December 18, 2021 [4 favorites]
Response by poster: So he complains a lot every day about work, how his coworkers leave him screwed every day by not doing prep work, stocking, or just not showing up or calling in. I’ve been frustrated and I said you could always get a different job. He says yeah but I do like this job if people weren’t irresponsible, he likes that it’s laid back, chill.
And then he said kids are expensive, but I was like, well we’ll probably make more in the future, careers are supposed to progress. I’m just wondering if he sounds unmotivated or what type of person objectively he is.
I DO love him, I have been pretty much perfectly happy with him, I’m just so scared to not live the life I want, or have to pull him along with my goals. I feel like I’m less motivated because he is t motivated and so I kinda give up on my vague dreams.
posted by anon1129 at 9:10 AM on December 18, 2021
And then he said kids are expensive, but I was like, well we’ll probably make more in the future, careers are supposed to progress. I’m just wondering if he sounds unmotivated or what type of person objectively he is.
I DO love him, I have been pretty much perfectly happy with him, I’m just so scared to not live the life I want, or have to pull him along with my goals. I feel like I’m less motivated because he is t motivated and so I kinda give up on my vague dreams.
posted by anon1129 at 9:10 AM on December 18, 2021
Best answer: Read your question out loud, pretending that your best friend was telling you this while you were out at a cafe/bar, and asking you for advice. What would you tell them?
To me, it does not sound like this is the person you want as your partner to go through life with. It sounds like trying to motivate him is draining your energy, and may hold you back from pursuing what it is that you want to do. It also sounds like you might be stepping slightly into the "mom" role instead of feeling like an equal partner, and that is not a good place to be. There are so many other potential partners out there that will have ambition, and goals, and importantly, will truly support you in achieving yours.
posted by Sparky Buttons at 9:10 AM on December 18, 2021 [7 favorites]
To me, it does not sound like this is the person you want as your partner to go through life with. It sounds like trying to motivate him is draining your energy, and may hold you back from pursuing what it is that you want to do. It also sounds like you might be stepping slightly into the "mom" role instead of feeling like an equal partner, and that is not a good place to be. There are so many other potential partners out there that will have ambition, and goals, and importantly, will truly support you in achieving yours.
posted by Sparky Buttons at 9:10 AM on December 18, 2021 [7 favorites]
I think the foundational question is: Do you two want the same life?
posted by Charity Garfein at 9:13 AM on December 18, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by Charity Garfein at 9:13 AM on December 18, 2021 [6 favorites]
You should ask yourself if you can be happy with him if he never changes the things about him that you don't like. Because, honestly, it sounds like he's pretty happy with the way his life is. He likes smoking weed, doesn't seem to need long-term goals or money in the bank to be satisfied, doesn't really want children. Those are all fine for some people, but it doesn't sound compatible with what you want. These are fundamental things, and I worry that the strategy you're holding in the back of your mind is that you can eventually convince him to change these things. That's a recipe for resentment on both sides, and it probably won't work anyway. Also: it sounds like you don't fully trust him, and I'm sure you know that's a giant red flag.
So: Is the person he is today, right now, the person you want to be married to? Or are you hoping he will somehow change into a person whose values are more compatible with yours? You really, really can't count on that.
posted by something something at 9:14 AM on December 18, 2021 [15 favorites]
So: Is the person he is today, right now, the person you want to be married to? Or are you hoping he will somehow change into a person whose values are more compatible with yours? You really, really can't count on that.
posted by something something at 9:14 AM on December 18, 2021 [15 favorites]
Best answer: "He does some things around the house like feeding our cats, changing litter boxes, making our dog food, and laundry (he slacks in laundry a bit though)."
So you do 99% of the work around the house.
"His best friend will come over about five times a week, and they will get completely stoned."
So he spends the majority of his time with his friend and not with you?
I've very very sorry to say this, but I think you may be unconsciously recreating your childhood abandonment and instability. You couldn't change your parents and you won't be able to change this guy. Please consider how you can prioritize what you need. All of those thoughts about how you would parent and care for your children? You can do that for yourself, too! Be kind and caring and protective of yourself, just like you would of your own children.
posted by mcduff at 9:19 AM on December 18, 2021 [34 favorites]
So you do 99% of the work around the house.
"His best friend will come over about five times a week, and they will get completely stoned."
So he spends the majority of his time with his friend and not with you?
I've very very sorry to say this, but I think you may be unconsciously recreating your childhood abandonment and instability. You couldn't change your parents and you won't be able to change this guy. Please consider how you can prioritize what you need. All of those thoughts about how you would parent and care for your children? You can do that for yourself, too! Be kind and caring and protective of yourself, just like you would of your own children.
posted by mcduff at 9:19 AM on December 18, 2021 [34 favorites]
Response by poster: In the back of my mind I have always hoped he would change some (stop smoking weed, save money, want kids).
After we had a weird night last night I woke up to him having a ton of laundry folded and no weed smell I can detect.
His one friends who are married couples seem like what he would want, they smoke all the time, play games, travel, don’t have much money, have lots of friends. They’re really nice. But I never organically wanted that. But I wonder if having kids would really make me happy at all. I feel like I place all my hopes as being a mother and neglect myself.
posted by anon1129 at 9:22 AM on December 18, 2021 [1 favorite]
After we had a weird night last night I woke up to him having a ton of laundry folded and no weed smell I can detect.
His one friends who are married couples seem like what he would want, they smoke all the time, play games, travel, don’t have much money, have lots of friends. They’re really nice. But I never organically wanted that. But I wonder if having kids would really make me happy at all. I feel like I place all my hopes as being a mother and neglect myself.
posted by anon1129 at 9:22 AM on December 18, 2021 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: I do the cleaning and cooking. The cleaning is slacking because I feel I don’t have enough time and sometimes motivation.
His friend and him have a good time playing games by themselves next to each other. My dad was always high as well and absent
His friend wasn’t over last night and I feel that we didn’t have much to do, we played Minecraft separately. We bowl with his one friend and mom every Wednesday. He likes horror games and movies, I’m not into them really. Idk. I don’t have many hobbies. I like cooking for him after work.
His friend and him are on the phone almost every day sometimes for hours at a time. I do get mad sometimes and wish his friend would get a life of his own and stop coming over so so much just to get stoned. Idk.
posted by anon1129 at 9:27 AM on December 18, 2021
His friend and him have a good time playing games by themselves next to each other. My dad was always high as well and absent
His friend wasn’t over last night and I feel that we didn’t have much to do, we played Minecraft separately. We bowl with his one friend and mom every Wednesday. He likes horror games and movies, I’m not into them really. Idk. I don’t have many hobbies. I like cooking for him after work.
His friend and him are on the phone almost every day sometimes for hours at a time. I do get mad sometimes and wish his friend would get a life of his own and stop coming over so so much just to get stoned. Idk.
posted by anon1129 at 9:27 AM on December 18, 2021
Having some familiarity with your posting history, I think you really tend to doubt your own feelings and desires, often wondering if you "really" feel (or "should" feel) the way you do, or if it is a symptom of other issues. Which makes a lot of sense given your upbringing! I wonder how it would feel, though, to gently just let yourself want the things you've mentioned here (children and a stable, middle-class life), whether they're compatible with this relationship or not. (It's also ok to want those things, begin working toward them, and then decide you want other things more!) I don't think wanting stability or a family as a reaction to a traumatic upbringing is a bad thing, or less valid. And I think you are doing hard work in therapy to understand and deal with some of the traumas of your childhood, such that I don't think you're at a great danger of trying to "solve" all your problems by having children--you're already aware of some of these tendencies, which in itself is huge.
In many ways your boyfriend sounds depressed--which, yes, is a situation that can change. I also think it's worth acknowledging the reality that the life successes his parents might have had are much harder to accomplish for your generation--they just are--and I know many young people are reacting to this by feeling like, "what's the point of planning for a future?" or giving up on the idea of a stable career, kids, or middle-class existence. Maybe addressing his own feelings or this potential depression will help your boyfriend change, or discover goals of his own. But maybe not!
With all you've presented here, no one can tell you whether your boyfriend will change, or will want what you want (or whether he already does). That's because you don't know yet, either. The good news is that an engagement is a perfectly valid time to clarify this and to really find out if you two want the same things out of life. If it's helpful, you might take a look at this list of "13 Questions to Ask Before Getting Married." Maybe if you are both able to answer these questions honestly it will give you some insight into the appropriateness of building a life together. If many of his (or your) answers to these questions are "I don't know," I would take that as a strong indication that this relationship is not ready for marriage.
posted by EL-O-ESS at 9:37 AM on December 18, 2021 [1 favorite]
In many ways your boyfriend sounds depressed--which, yes, is a situation that can change. I also think it's worth acknowledging the reality that the life successes his parents might have had are much harder to accomplish for your generation--they just are--and I know many young people are reacting to this by feeling like, "what's the point of planning for a future?" or giving up on the idea of a stable career, kids, or middle-class existence. Maybe addressing his own feelings or this potential depression will help your boyfriend change, or discover goals of his own. But maybe not!
With all you've presented here, no one can tell you whether your boyfriend will change, or will want what you want (or whether he already does). That's because you don't know yet, either. The good news is that an engagement is a perfectly valid time to clarify this and to really find out if you two want the same things out of life. If it's helpful, you might take a look at this list of "13 Questions to Ask Before Getting Married." Maybe if you are both able to answer these questions honestly it will give you some insight into the appropriateness of building a life together. If many of his (or your) answers to these questions are "I don't know," I would take that as a strong indication that this relationship is not ready for marriage.
posted by EL-O-ESS at 9:37 AM on December 18, 2021 [1 favorite]
This is who he is. This is who you are. Do not get married expecting to change each other’s fundamental nature. Do not even get married if you can’t reasonably trust how the other person will grow. Do you have any good reason to expect that the two of you will wake up ten years from now and want the same things in life?
Abusive childhoods condition us to think that these kinds of incompatibility are our fault, either for not being loving enough, or for not being deserving enough of love. Love should be “enough” to bridge those gaps, right? Surely if you loved him more, you could make him love you enough to want to change, right? Maybe if he doesn’t change it’s because you don’t really deserve someone who shares your values?
Wrong. These are lies your past is telling you. Stop listening to it.
Listen more and more to that other voice that’s trying to break through — the one that’s telling you it’s OK to know what you really want. A lot of people around you told that voice to hush for a very long time. You know better.
posted by armeowda at 9:43 AM on December 18, 2021 [14 favorites]
Abusive childhoods condition us to think that these kinds of incompatibility are our fault, either for not being loving enough, or for not being deserving enough of love. Love should be “enough” to bridge those gaps, right? Surely if you loved him more, you could make him love you enough to want to change, right? Maybe if he doesn’t change it’s because you don’t really deserve someone who shares your values?
Wrong. These are lies your past is telling you. Stop listening to it.
Listen more and more to that other voice that’s trying to break through — the one that’s telling you it’s OK to know what you really want. A lot of people around you told that voice to hush for a very long time. You know better.
posted by armeowda at 9:43 AM on December 18, 2021 [14 favorites]
Best answer: Your fiancé sounds a lot like my ex-husband (take away the weed issue and add in intimacy/sex issues). I loved him very much, we got along very well most of the time, had fun together, etc. I still love him, but I regret not leaving sooner. I had doubts before we were married, but didn’t listen to my gut telling me that I would never be fully happy with him. He was the same way about kids, and although he’s extremely smart and talented, he had very little motivation or life goals. I’m glad I didn’t have children with him because it made the split so much easier, but now I’m 38 and childless and regret not moving on sooner.
It is possible to be in love with someone who is not your ideal partner. It is possible, but rare, for people to change. Your fiancé may struggle with (or ignore) underlying mental health issues, and that may be something that, if addressed, could improve his motivation and outlook. But it’s going to require that he acknowledges it and seeks help on his own. Are you willing to wait for that? Are you willing to compromise forever on these things if it never happens?
Leaving was one of the scariest, hardest things I’ve ever had to do. I think I stayed as long as I did simply because I wanted to avoid the difficulty and pain of it. I knew it would devastate him. And it was so easy to stay. Things were comfortable and easy most of the time. I was neglecting my own feelings and needs to spare his, and I eventually just got to a breaking point where I felt like a shell of my former self.
Your needs and values and goals are valid. Be an advocate for yourself and build towards the future you want. If your fiancé is ready and willing to join you on that journey, that’s great. But be willing to stand up for yourself—you DESERVE a happy, fulfilling marriage and family life. And it’s not wrong or selfish or a failure on your part to make that happen in whatever way you need to.
posted by a.steele at 9:44 AM on December 18, 2021 [9 favorites]
It is possible to be in love with someone who is not your ideal partner. It is possible, but rare, for people to change. Your fiancé may struggle with (or ignore) underlying mental health issues, and that may be something that, if addressed, could improve his motivation and outlook. But it’s going to require that he acknowledges it and seeks help on his own. Are you willing to wait for that? Are you willing to compromise forever on these things if it never happens?
Leaving was one of the scariest, hardest things I’ve ever had to do. I think I stayed as long as I did simply because I wanted to avoid the difficulty and pain of it. I knew it would devastate him. And it was so easy to stay. Things were comfortable and easy most of the time. I was neglecting my own feelings and needs to spare his, and I eventually just got to a breaking point where I felt like a shell of my former self.
Your needs and values and goals are valid. Be an advocate for yourself and build towards the future you want. If your fiancé is ready and willing to join you on that journey, that’s great. But be willing to stand up for yourself—you DESERVE a happy, fulfilling marriage and family life. And it’s not wrong or selfish or a failure on your part to make that happen in whatever way you need to.
posted by a.steele at 9:44 AM on December 18, 2021 [9 favorites]
Response by poster: Also, I do feel like my boyfriend has decided that living a “successful” typical life is too hard, yes his parents are very successful (though not perfect, his mom never cleans and there is like moldy sponges sitting in their sink for years). He thinks it’s too hard and doesn’t try. I told him I have $35,000 saved for retirement, he doesn’t have anything. I said my work offered a plan, his work doesn’t, and he said, “ I guess I just won’t retire”. But inside I’m like, THERE ARE OTHER OPTIONs, it seems like he just doesn’t really care, he can open his own account!!!! I just get annoyed by how he doesn’t try or have any interest in learning important things, only watching game theories and learning random food facts. I just don’t get it.
posted by anon1129 at 9:44 AM on December 18, 2021
posted by anon1129 at 9:44 AM on December 18, 2021
I know a late-bloomer like this who "flipped the switch" at age 40. George Clooney flipped his switch at age 55, with someone 17 years younger.
All that is to say, this guy may or may not share your goals one day, but he's not compatible with you in this timeline.
posted by dum spiro spero at 10:00 AM on December 18, 2021 [2 favorites]
All that is to say, this guy may or may not share your goals one day, but he's not compatible with you in this timeline.
posted by dum spiro spero at 10:00 AM on December 18, 2021 [2 favorites]
I think your second-to-last response says a lot. The story you're telling is that you had a hard childhood and you are willing to work very hard to overcome it. He had a comparatively easy childhood that may be difficult now to replicate, and he's not super motivated to do that work. Are you prepared to have to drag him along with you? Will he simply hold you back from what you want? Would you have to get there by yourself?
It's super scary, but these are things you need to talk about, honestly. You will probably not get what you need by just ruminating on these questions silently until you make a decision for yourself. Marriage will require constant communication, so try that out first, maybe with the help of a relationship counselor if that feels useful.
Maybe it takes a little extra time but you two get where you need to be, together, with communication and effort. Or maybe this relationship is not ultimately what you need. You do deserve to be loved for exactly who you are, and you do deserve a partner who will work with you to build a shared life you both want. This is a big world and there are many potential partners for each of us.
posted by EL-O-ESS at 10:05 AM on December 18, 2021 [1 favorite]
It's super scary, but these are things you need to talk about, honestly. You will probably not get what you need by just ruminating on these questions silently until you make a decision for yourself. Marriage will require constant communication, so try that out first, maybe with the help of a relationship counselor if that feels useful.
Maybe it takes a little extra time but you two get where you need to be, together, with communication and effort. Or maybe this relationship is not ultimately what you need. You do deserve to be loved for exactly who you are, and you do deserve a partner who will work with you to build a shared life you both want. This is a big world and there are many potential partners for each of us.
posted by EL-O-ESS at 10:05 AM on December 18, 2021 [1 favorite]
I really think marriage is a business transaction. There's no need to get married if people just like hanging out together, doing what they're doing, and love each other, and it's all good!
But you want to enter into binding life and business decisions together, like buying property, procreating, intertwining your life goals? Then marriage is a useful commitment to a set of shared challenges and goals.
posted by stray at 10:06 AM on December 18, 2021 [10 favorites]
But you want to enter into binding life and business decisions together, like buying property, procreating, intertwining your life goals? Then marriage is a useful commitment to a set of shared challenges and goals.
posted by stray at 10:06 AM on December 18, 2021 [10 favorites]
I don’t know who would want to date me, a friendless, damaged person who doesn’t speak to half of their immediate family, and 29, and wants to have children.
As someone who divorced at age 31 with many of these issues, after an 11 year marriage, I will tell you the answer is A LOT OF PEOPLE. The real question is, who do *you* want to date. I wish I had given more thought to that. You are not damaged goods. You deserve a partner who is on the same page as you about life. Don't settle because you're afraid no one will want the same things.
posted by ananci at 10:06 AM on December 18, 2021 [25 favorites]
As someone who divorced at age 31 with many of these issues, after an 11 year marriage, I will tell you the answer is A LOT OF PEOPLE. The real question is, who do *you* want to date. I wish I had given more thought to that. You are not damaged goods. You deserve a partner who is on the same page as you about life. Don't settle because you're afraid no one will want the same things.
posted by ananci at 10:06 AM on December 18, 2021 [25 favorites]
Response by poster: Also, is it reasonable to be resentful or angry by how much his best friend os around? We’re about to leave to go to a Christmas party, he is on the phone with his friend (they talk multiple hours a day on the phone with his earbuds and he comes over almost every day of the week), and his friend is going to stop by to get high while we’re gone before going home to his parents house. His friend has a key. I’m just kinda pissed off. I don’t want our house being the weed smoking house. But I’ve never made it a rule. But inside I’m angry.
posted by anon1129 at 10:14 AM on December 18, 2021
posted by anon1129 at 10:14 AM on December 18, 2021
Best answer: I don’t know who would want to date me, a friendless, damaged person who doesn’t speak to half of their immediate family, and 29, and wants to have children.
Do you want to be asking that question again except at 36 with a kid or two (whose dad will take them only on Sunday-Mondays because you don't get weekends off in a restaurant, and they have tons of fun but you get them back on Monday night having not brushed their hair, taken a bath, or done homework since you saw them last)?
Break up, spend a couple years in therapy, sort out your damage, get your priorities in order, make some friends, become your own best advocate with high standards for a partner, and decide if you want kids enough to have them alone and worry about a partner later. When many of your peers' first marriages/long-term relationships fall apart over the next 5 years you will find your dating pool roughly as large as it's ever been except a number of your options will have actually learned something and evolved past the "stoner in a dead-end career" stage.
You have to live in the situation you're actually in, not daydreaming of how much better the situation would be if your partner made any effort. Your only control is over you. It doesn't matter what anyone else thinks is reasonable - is it what you want? Is this how you want to live? Your only control is over whether you keep doing it or stop doing it.
Your partner spends more time with someone else than you. Your partner is effectively a child for the amount of responsibility he takes for his life, only does teenager chores, and proposed to you because he can sense your frustration and can coast on that gesture for a year or two (same as folding towels in the middle of the night because he can sense he's in trouble). You. Are. Settling. It will not be enough, and you will always ache for more until you snap and go out to find it.
You deserve better. Break up and go to therapy until you can agree with that statement, and only then start dating again.
posted by Lyn Never at 10:22 AM on December 18, 2021 [63 favorites]
Do you want to be asking that question again except at 36 with a kid or two (whose dad will take them only on Sunday-Mondays because you don't get weekends off in a restaurant, and they have tons of fun but you get them back on Monday night having not brushed their hair, taken a bath, or done homework since you saw them last)?
Break up, spend a couple years in therapy, sort out your damage, get your priorities in order, make some friends, become your own best advocate with high standards for a partner, and decide if you want kids enough to have them alone and worry about a partner later. When many of your peers' first marriages/long-term relationships fall apart over the next 5 years you will find your dating pool roughly as large as it's ever been except a number of your options will have actually learned something and evolved past the "stoner in a dead-end career" stage.
You have to live in the situation you're actually in, not daydreaming of how much better the situation would be if your partner made any effort. Your only control is over you. It doesn't matter what anyone else thinks is reasonable - is it what you want? Is this how you want to live? Your only control is over whether you keep doing it or stop doing it.
Your partner spends more time with someone else than you. Your partner is effectively a child for the amount of responsibility he takes for his life, only does teenager chores, and proposed to you because he can sense your frustration and can coast on that gesture for a year or two (same as folding towels in the middle of the night because he can sense he's in trouble). You. Are. Settling. It will not be enough, and you will always ache for more until you snap and go out to find it.
You deserve better. Break up and go to therapy until you can agree with that statement, and only then start dating again.
posted by Lyn Never at 10:22 AM on December 18, 2021 [63 favorites]
Best answer: Nope nope nope! Thank your gut for telling you to get out, and obey what it’s saying. This is not the person for you.
Your self-assessment is not accurate or fixed:
Friendless - make it a 2022 goal to make 2 new friends.
Damaged - we’re allllll damaged
29 and childless - My friend just had a healthy baby at 43. Try not to wait that long but you likely have another 6-10 years of good fertility. You can find and commit with a new person in under a year.
Don’t let fear hold you with this person who you know in your gut is not a good match. Make plans to move out and cancel the engagement.
posted by nouvelle-personne at 10:31 AM on December 18, 2021 [10 favorites]
Your self-assessment is not accurate or fixed:
Friendless - make it a 2022 goal to make 2 new friends.
Damaged - we’re allllll damaged
29 and childless - My friend just had a healthy baby at 43. Try not to wait that long but you likely have another 6-10 years of good fertility. You can find and commit with a new person in under a year.
Don’t let fear hold you with this person who you know in your gut is not a good match. Make plans to move out and cancel the engagement.
posted by nouvelle-personne at 10:31 AM on December 18, 2021 [10 favorites]
Also, is it reasonable to be resentful or angry by how much his best friend os around?
This is unequivocally the wrong question. I also have a somewhat bleak history and also spent a lot of time trying to measure my reactions against a hypothetical better and more reasonable person, whose opinions would obviously be more valuable than my own. Don't do that.
You are angry. You don't like how much this other guy gets high in your house, and how much time and energy your maybe-future-husband spends on him. Whether that's a thing Ms. Jane Q. Public would be resentful about or not is irrelevant.
It is not important whether your feelings are shared by a statistical majority of people. It is important whether your feelings are considered important by the people you share your life with. Has either this friend or your fiancé talked to you about what you're comfortable with, or checked in with you about how late you're happy to have the guy over?
Break up now. You don't sound compatible.
posted by All Might Be Well at 10:33 AM on December 18, 2021 [14 favorites]
This is unequivocally the wrong question. I also have a somewhat bleak history and also spent a lot of time trying to measure my reactions against a hypothetical better and more reasonable person, whose opinions would obviously be more valuable than my own. Don't do that.
You are angry. You don't like how much this other guy gets high in your house, and how much time and energy your maybe-future-husband spends on him. Whether that's a thing Ms. Jane Q. Public would be resentful about or not is irrelevant.
It is not important whether your feelings are shared by a statistical majority of people. It is important whether your feelings are considered important by the people you share your life with. Has either this friend or your fiancé talked to you about what you're comfortable with, or checked in with you about how late you're happy to have the guy over?
Break up now. You don't sound compatible.
posted by All Might Be Well at 10:33 AM on December 18, 2021 [14 favorites]
Response by poster: I mean sometimes I’m fine with him coming over, he comes over before I get off of work around 3, I work from home, and he leaves maybe around 5-8 (I get off at 5). So sometimes I like it because it keeps my fiancé entertained so I can work, cause sometimes he bugs me. And then when it’s just me and my fiancé after I make dinner I play video games by myself and he goes to bed soon after because he’s tired and works from 4-5am to 1-3pm. Idk….!!!
posted by anon1129 at 10:38 AM on December 18, 2021
posted by anon1129 at 10:38 AM on December 18, 2021
Best answer: Hi OP, just a caution - a mod *might* come in and say that ask mefi isn't for back and forth and not to post so many of your own comments.
Ok so this is what I understand that you want:
-a partner who doesn't smoke or at least not so much
-a partner that wants to be financially healthy, who wants to own a home, and wants to have kids
-to get married
-be financially healthy
-buy a house
-have a couple of kids
You do not want:
-to live a life you don't want
-to drag someone to live the life you want
-a life where you and your partner smoke all the time, play games, travel, don't have much money, have lots of friends
-your house to be the weed smoking house
A few points:
-I know you love each other
-Love is not enough to have a great marriage and the life that you want
-You two are not compatible in what you want out of life, therefore, don't get married
-Your anxiety is trying to tell you something, LISTEN TO IT
-Do NOT let this blow over and hope that it will get better
-Do NOT hope that he will change. He is who he is. Both of you want different things. That's ok. What's not ok is getting married hoping that he will change, and to someone who doesn't want the same things as you. Don't do that to yourself!
Woo portion of my comment: You're in your Saturn Return, which happens around age 28-30 or so. "It’s a moment for self-reflection and planning, and above all, a way to check whether you’re on the right life path or not in terms of career, romance and relationships with friends and family... If you aren’t on the right path, Saturn has a way of helping you to readjust... The Saturn Return can be an auspicious time for healing, urging us to see others and certain relationships in a new light." Link. I think this is pretty accurate in terms of what's happening to you. I think you're right to be questioning whether this relationship works for you.
Ultimately, YOU know what's right for you. You know deep down that this relationship is not for you, despite you loving him. Despite all the abuse and shit you had to go through from your family, you still have an intact instinct about knowing what's right for you. Honour and love yourself enough to listen to it now.
posted by foxjacket at 10:41 AM on December 18, 2021 [13 favorites]
Ok so this is what I understand that you want:
-a partner who doesn't smoke or at least not so much
-a partner that wants to be financially healthy, who wants to own a home, and wants to have kids
-to get married
-be financially healthy
-buy a house
-have a couple of kids
You do not want:
-to live a life you don't want
-to drag someone to live the life you want
-a life where you and your partner smoke all the time, play games, travel, don't have much money, have lots of friends
-your house to be the weed smoking house
A few points:
-I know you love each other
-Love is not enough to have a great marriage and the life that you want
-You two are not compatible in what you want out of life, therefore, don't get married
-Your anxiety is trying to tell you something, LISTEN TO IT
-Do NOT let this blow over and hope that it will get better
-Do NOT hope that he will change. He is who he is. Both of you want different things. That's ok. What's not ok is getting married hoping that he will change, and to someone who doesn't want the same things as you. Don't do that to yourself!
Woo portion of my comment: You're in your Saturn Return, which happens around age 28-30 or so. "It’s a moment for self-reflection and planning, and above all, a way to check whether you’re on the right life path or not in terms of career, romance and relationships with friends and family... If you aren’t on the right path, Saturn has a way of helping you to readjust... The Saturn Return can be an auspicious time for healing, urging us to see others and certain relationships in a new light." Link. I think this is pretty accurate in terms of what's happening to you. I think you're right to be questioning whether this relationship works for you.
Ultimately, YOU know what's right for you. You know deep down that this relationship is not for you, despite you loving him. Despite all the abuse and shit you had to go through from your family, you still have an intact instinct about knowing what's right for you. Honour and love yourself enough to listen to it now.
posted by foxjacket at 10:41 AM on December 18, 2021 [13 favorites]
Your impulse to not try and make your partner into the person you want is wise, I think. I can tell you from experience, as the partner someone tried to change, that it won't work and the trying will hurt both of you.
The flip side to that is you either need to be okay being in a committed long-term relationship with who he is right now, or walk away.
posted by Alterscape at 10:49 AM on December 18, 2021
The flip side to that is you either need to be okay being in a committed long-term relationship with who he is right now, or walk away.
posted by Alterscape at 10:49 AM on December 18, 2021
You are right, he might change! People do. And if he does you can marry him *then*.
posted by Vatnesine at 10:56 AM on December 18, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by Vatnesine at 10:56 AM on December 18, 2021 [3 favorites]
Best answer: This guy is a loser -- I don't mean that in a cruel or derogatory way -- he simply has no aspirations whatsoever. That might change one day, but he has to find that in himself. You should not marry him.
posted by so fucking future at 11:12 AM on December 18, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by so fucking future at 11:12 AM on December 18, 2021 [6 favorites]
Mod note: Heya, asker: Ask MeFi isn't meant to have a lot of back-and-forth. It's okay to offer a clarifying followup or two but try to keep it just to necessary updates vs. ongoing responses to various answers.
posted by cortex (staff) at 11:13 AM on December 18, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by cortex (staff) at 11:13 AM on December 18, 2021 [4 favorites]
You know, I feel like proposing (and honestly, even accepting) marriage is something that's best to do after you've made sure you're on the same page about the most basic things, like children and money.
So first, the fact that you're now taking the time to think about this is a very good thing, not something to feel bad about. Proposing without a solid foundation was something out of a romcom script, and now you're thinking about reality. It's not weird that it's a comedown.
Second, the fact that he proposed to you without talking about kids (and money) shows a pretty unrealistic understanding of marriage and adult life. What bothers me more is that it shows a lack of care for your needs. I mean, if you've been as child-oriented as you describe your whole life, how could he feel comfortable proposing to you without making it clear he might not want kids, so that you have that information when deciding whether to accept?
The information in your updates - like that he's fine letting you cook and clean for him - also seems like it's saying the same thing, that he's happy to do what's comfortable for him and not worry too much about how it feels to be you. I don't know, maybe this is a cultural thing, and maybe this is coming from you too (for example, if the sponges at his parents' place are dirty, why is that only his mom's responsibility and not his dad's). Still - is this what you want?
(This also might be a cultural thing, and it might be a personal thing, so I don't know if it's relevant for you. For me, if I was stressed about money and made it clear that I thought financial responsibility was important, and my partner went and spent $1400 on a ring when they didn't even have any savings, I would take that as a sign that the two of us were really not on the same page about money and priorities. If my dream was financial stability and the life that enables, that ring would feel the opposite of romantic. Romantic would be them saying "I've been saving my weed money each month for us to use for our future together". But I know rings are very important to a lot of people too, so ymmv.)
You're right that having kids might not make you happy, and it'll almost definitely be different than what you've envisioned. But I don't know, no one can predict the future accurately, so you've got to decide based on what you do know and feel as of now. And (based on what you described) it seems like you love each other, but it's a pretty self-centered love on his part. It seems like his needs are always going to come first, and you'll have to drag him painfully into making any changes that will make your life more comfortable and solid at the expense of his own comfort. What does he bring to your picture of your ideal future? Would it possibly be easier to have kids even on your own as a single parent, than to have to nag him and push him every step of the way into doing a fraction of the work of parenting?
If you stay with him and he stays the way he is, will the contempt it seems you're starting to develop for him keep growing? Or will you be able to ask yourself "Am I happy with this as my future?" and honestly answer yes?
posted by trig at 11:15 AM on December 18, 2021 [4 favorites]
So first, the fact that you're now taking the time to think about this is a very good thing, not something to feel bad about. Proposing without a solid foundation was something out of a romcom script, and now you're thinking about reality. It's not weird that it's a comedown.
Second, the fact that he proposed to you without talking about kids (and money) shows a pretty unrealistic understanding of marriage and adult life. What bothers me more is that it shows a lack of care for your needs. I mean, if you've been as child-oriented as you describe your whole life, how could he feel comfortable proposing to you without making it clear he might not want kids, so that you have that information when deciding whether to accept?
The information in your updates - like that he's fine letting you cook and clean for him - also seems like it's saying the same thing, that he's happy to do what's comfortable for him and not worry too much about how it feels to be you. I don't know, maybe this is a cultural thing, and maybe this is coming from you too (for example, if the sponges at his parents' place are dirty, why is that only his mom's responsibility and not his dad's). Still - is this what you want?
(This also might be a cultural thing, and it might be a personal thing, so I don't know if it's relevant for you. For me, if I was stressed about money and made it clear that I thought financial responsibility was important, and my partner went and spent $1400 on a ring when they didn't even have any savings, I would take that as a sign that the two of us were really not on the same page about money and priorities. If my dream was financial stability and the life that enables, that ring would feel the opposite of romantic. Romantic would be them saying "I've been saving my weed money each month for us to use for our future together". But I know rings are very important to a lot of people too, so ymmv.)
You're right that having kids might not make you happy, and it'll almost definitely be different than what you've envisioned. But I don't know, no one can predict the future accurately, so you've got to decide based on what you do know and feel as of now. And (based on what you described) it seems like you love each other, but it's a pretty self-centered love on his part. It seems like his needs are always going to come first, and you'll have to drag him painfully into making any changes that will make your life more comfortable and solid at the expense of his own comfort. What does he bring to your picture of your ideal future? Would it possibly be easier to have kids even on your own as a single parent, than to have to nag him and push him every step of the way into doing a fraction of the work of parenting?
If you stay with him and he stays the way he is, will the contempt it seems you're starting to develop for him keep growing? Or will you be able to ask yourself "Am I happy with this as my future?" and honestly answer yes?
posted by trig at 11:15 AM on December 18, 2021 [4 favorites]
I think you need counseling for yourself and couples counseling for the two of you before you make any decisions.
posted by nancynickerson at 11:39 AM on December 18, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by nancynickerson at 11:39 AM on December 18, 2021 [3 favorites]
I think Lyn Never has it, and I just want to add that it is so, so, so, much easier to sort out what it is you want from life when you're not tied to another person's way of being in the world. Your posts contain a lot of doubt and contradictions, which is okay and nothing to be ashamed of at 29, especially with a rough upbringing, but does suggest you have some room for further self-reflection. Break up, be single for at least a year - completely prioritize yourself - and then start dating again. Lots of people dating in their early 30s, and you'll still have some time to have kids. Good luck.
posted by coffeecat at 11:41 AM on December 18, 2021 [11 favorites]
posted by coffeecat at 11:41 AM on December 18, 2021 [11 favorites]
Hi friend! I would like to tell you a short story.
Many years ago, I was desperately in love with a guy who had some similar red flags as the guy you mention. I wound up breaking up with him for a number of reasons, and raising my kid with another guy, who wasn’t perfect, but wanted the same things I wanted around family.
I still see the first guy from time to time, and he is in his mid forties, and still basically the same man, except he has gotten worse. He’s an alcoholic who doesn’t try to make any stability in his life. His kid texts me from time to time when she wants to ask a stable adult something.
The real thing I want to tell you though is that I enjoy being a parent, however, more than I have enjoyed either of them, more than literally anything else in my life. It is glorious. I am not a perfect mom myself, but I just got the “mom, I appreciate you” talk and it was wonderful.
So I suggest doing what you think is going to bring the best chance of happiness, but just be aware that more and more men are not “shaping up” post marriage in the way that the expectation used to be. Please do not make any assumptions based on that this guy is going to change. Ask yourself: if you were still doing this in ten years, and he were still like this, how would you feel?
posted by corb at 12:10 PM on December 18, 2021 [21 favorites]
Many years ago, I was desperately in love with a guy who had some similar red flags as the guy you mention. I wound up breaking up with him for a number of reasons, and raising my kid with another guy, who wasn’t perfect, but wanted the same things I wanted around family.
I still see the first guy from time to time, and he is in his mid forties, and still basically the same man, except he has gotten worse. He’s an alcoholic who doesn’t try to make any stability in his life. His kid texts me from time to time when she wants to ask a stable adult something.
The real thing I want to tell you though is that I enjoy being a parent, however, more than I have enjoyed either of them, more than literally anything else in my life. It is glorious. I am not a perfect mom myself, but I just got the “mom, I appreciate you” talk and it was wonderful.
So I suggest doing what you think is going to bring the best chance of happiness, but just be aware that more and more men are not “shaping up” post marriage in the way that the expectation used to be. Please do not make any assumptions based on that this guy is going to change. Ask yourself: if you were still doing this in ten years, and he were still like this, how would you feel?
posted by corb at 12:10 PM on December 18, 2021 [21 favorites]
Best answer: and his friend is going to stop by to get high while we’re gone before going home to his parents house
Something has gone very, very wrong in the establishment of your household boundaries.
posted by a box and a stick and a string and a bear at 12:19 PM on December 18, 2021 [24 favorites]
Something has gone very, very wrong in the establishment of your household boundaries.
posted by a box and a stick and a string and a bear at 12:19 PM on December 18, 2021 [24 favorites]
Best answer: OP, if you haven’t read it lately, take a look at your question about this guy from nearly four years ago, when you’d been dating for eight months. It doesn’t sound like much has improved?
posted by a box and a stick and a string and a bear at 12:29 PM on December 18, 2021 [16 favorites]
posted by a box and a stick and a string and a bear at 12:29 PM on December 18, 2021 [16 favorites]
I have to ask: if he was getting drunk, really drunk, not just a little buzzed from wine with dinner, almost every night with a friend, would you have different feelings? There's a big lie that you can't be addicted to weed. Your guy sounds a lot like my ex before recovery. (And if the friend who's getting high with him is driving a car, that is really, really bad.) Most people would look at someone drinking that much and say, yeah, he has an alcohol problem. I think you know where I'm heading with this because I think you understand, under the equivocation, where he's at.
posted by kitten kaboodle at 12:58 PM on December 18, 2021 [8 favorites]
posted by kitten kaboodle at 12:58 PM on December 18, 2021 [8 favorites]
Anon, at the end of the day, you don't have to listen to any of us. I do know exactly the sadness and fear of wanting a family and seeing few to no opportunities to get one. Maybe this guy feels close enough; he won't stop you from having kids, he's not mean or abusive, and time's running out. Why not marry and get at least part of the life you want?
Having and raising a child is meaningful work. It is one of the very few things women are given anything like praise, respect, or acceptance for. We are pointed towards it from childhood, taught to see it as a way if being fulfilled. Of being loved. So we crave it, especially if the rest of our lives don't provide much of that.
The problem is, that's mostly a lie. You will get some respect, but also contempt. You will get praise, unless you have any difficulty whatsoever, then you will get told you should have known better. If your child has any issues or ever acts up, you will be scrutinized. That is the flip side of how we treat mothers.
You already know this dude is a means to end. He won't pull his weight once a kid arrives. You will need help and not receive it. Your child will feel like a vortex of unending need and it will exhaust you. Not because children are bad but because they are helpless and it can be a long long time before they show any appreciation for your unending work. That's not their job, their job is to grow up and become people, not to fill the holes in your soul. But that doesn't mean it doesn't hurt when they say mean shit to you or reject something you want them to have.
So now what? Am I telling you to give up this dream? I guess what I'm saying is, maybe doing this particular hard task may not get you what you need..love, fulfillment, stability. I know there are other ways and other work that can, though. There is so much good work in the world that needs doing that is just as hard as raising a family, but that you don't have to do by yourself. There are people out there who will love and appreciate you outside of a nuclear family.
posted by emjaybee at 1:18 PM on December 18, 2021 [9 favorites]
Having and raising a child is meaningful work. It is one of the very few things women are given anything like praise, respect, or acceptance for. We are pointed towards it from childhood, taught to see it as a way if being fulfilled. Of being loved. So we crave it, especially if the rest of our lives don't provide much of that.
The problem is, that's mostly a lie. You will get some respect, but also contempt. You will get praise, unless you have any difficulty whatsoever, then you will get told you should have known better. If your child has any issues or ever acts up, you will be scrutinized. That is the flip side of how we treat mothers.
You already know this dude is a means to end. He won't pull his weight once a kid arrives. You will need help and not receive it. Your child will feel like a vortex of unending need and it will exhaust you. Not because children are bad but because they are helpless and it can be a long long time before they show any appreciation for your unending work. That's not their job, their job is to grow up and become people, not to fill the holes in your soul. But that doesn't mean it doesn't hurt when they say mean shit to you or reject something you want them to have.
So now what? Am I telling you to give up this dream? I guess what I'm saying is, maybe doing this particular hard task may not get you what you need..love, fulfillment, stability. I know there are other ways and other work that can, though. There is so much good work in the world that needs doing that is just as hard as raising a family, but that you don't have to do by yourself. There are people out there who will love and appreciate you outside of a nuclear family.
posted by emjaybee at 1:18 PM on December 18, 2021 [9 favorites]
This kind of life-intention differences was what made me finally break off a relationship/engagement after EIGHT years. It wasn't going to GO anywhere, and I wanted a true partner in life that would work WITH me toward goals, not just be wishy-washy or pay lip service to them. It ended up with me realizing that he'd actually, intentionally or not, I don't know, do things that would undermine even my individual goals, like going to school, and screw them up for me.
I'd wanted a child with him, too. He claimed to want kids, eventually. Fortunately, I had children from a previous relationship, and got to see how he interacted with them. It wasn't a parent relationship - it was more of a disinterested older brother sort of relationship. The main thing he managed to find in common with them was video games - sort of - because he would only play what HE wanted to play.
It's been SIX years since I broke things off with him, and he drifted his way into another relationship. He's actually smoking less pot these days, because his girlfriend and their 3-4 roommates smoke so much. He keeps his high-end restaurant jobs, because that's all he does other than games. He's even worse with money than before, and it's snowballing. And yet he wonders why he's always broke.
We ended up learning to be friends, long after the breakup, and until Covid, we'd go to lunch once every couple weeks and explore new restaurants in the city we'd both happened to move to. He's wondered aloud if I had any interested in exploring our relationship again; he's not really happy in the one he's in. I've been blunt but kind in the way I frame it - I'm nowhere near interested in any relationship with anyone right now, and don't really expect to be anytime soon. But honestly? No, I couldn't be with him again. I loved him, but I've grown past that. I'm more stable financially alone than I ever was with him... and he'd be a risk to that. Besides. I raised my kids, and am mostly raising my granddaughter. He's 40 now. I don't really feel like going back to being his mother.
I'd recommend, if you're not in therapy, find some. It's easier to process with help. Your emotional dependency isn't enough to sustain the relationship when things get worse, as they will. And work toward moving on and finding a partner to raise your future children with, not an adult child.
posted by stormyteal at 1:35 PM on December 18, 2021 [8 favorites]
I'd wanted a child with him, too. He claimed to want kids, eventually. Fortunately, I had children from a previous relationship, and got to see how he interacted with them. It wasn't a parent relationship - it was more of a disinterested older brother sort of relationship. The main thing he managed to find in common with them was video games - sort of - because he would only play what HE wanted to play.
It's been SIX years since I broke things off with him, and he drifted his way into another relationship. He's actually smoking less pot these days, because his girlfriend and their 3-4 roommates smoke so much. He keeps his high-end restaurant jobs, because that's all he does other than games. He's even worse with money than before, and it's snowballing. And yet he wonders why he's always broke.
We ended up learning to be friends, long after the breakup, and until Covid, we'd go to lunch once every couple weeks and explore new restaurants in the city we'd both happened to move to. He's wondered aloud if I had any interested in exploring our relationship again; he's not really happy in the one he's in. I've been blunt but kind in the way I frame it - I'm nowhere near interested in any relationship with anyone right now, and don't really expect to be anytime soon. But honestly? No, I couldn't be with him again. I loved him, but I've grown past that. I'm more stable financially alone than I ever was with him... and he'd be a risk to that. Besides. I raised my kids, and am mostly raising my granddaughter. He's 40 now. I don't really feel like going back to being his mother.
I'd recommend, if you're not in therapy, find some. It's easier to process with help. Your emotional dependency isn't enough to sustain the relationship when things get worse, as they will. And work toward moving on and finding a partner to raise your future children with, not an adult child.
posted by stormyteal at 1:35 PM on December 18, 2021 [8 favorites]
I agree with kitten kaboodle. The pot is a lifestyle thing for him and it is hugely entrenched with a friend who is there to reinforce the habit, and with a career where drinking and using is the norm. If this changes, it's going to be through some sort of real reversal, the kind that relationships often don't survive anyway. Don't marry this guy. A divorce would seriously undermine the progress you have made, including in terms of your financial stability.
posted by BibiRose at 1:37 PM on December 18, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by BibiRose at 1:37 PM on December 18, 2021 [2 favorites]
From what you say above, he doesn't have any goals of his own, but does not strongly oppose the things you want. He has a job, he's made a small stab at saving some money, he hasn't said no to kids or a house or a middle-class life. So it's possible you can sort of drag him along for the ride on those things, if you feel you can't live without him. He will probably not be a huge help or a huge hindrance, either one.
The thing that seems like a showstopper here is the friend who he spends hours a day with, and the weed, and his obvious enjoyment of and commitment to both. Not sure how much one influences the other. But it seems like he's built his life around this friend. It's not just "he's my buddy and I like him and we hang out sometimes", they have a relationship. He and the friend both are likely to resent your attempts to set limits and boundaries that neither of them want.
I feel like basically the same thing could be said about the weed.
posted by Serene Empress Dork at 1:47 PM on December 18, 2021 [6 favorites]
The thing that seems like a showstopper here is the friend who he spends hours a day with, and the weed, and his obvious enjoyment of and commitment to both. Not sure how much one influences the other. But it seems like he's built his life around this friend. It's not just "he's my buddy and I like him and we hang out sometimes", they have a relationship. He and the friend both are likely to resent your attempts to set limits and boundaries that neither of them want.
I feel like basically the same thing could be said about the weed.
posted by Serene Empress Dork at 1:47 PM on December 18, 2021 [6 favorites]
Best answer: If you have kids with this guy, you'll be doing all the cooking, cleaning, child rearing, household management, financial planning and saving, and he will be smoking weed with his friend. Is that acceptable to you? I think you need to be confident in the answer, because you can't rely on him changing. He doesn't seem at all interested in changing.
posted by Mavri at 1:50 PM on December 18, 2021 [23 favorites]
posted by Mavri at 1:50 PM on December 18, 2021 [23 favorites]
Also, if it hasn't been said, you don't need this dude to have a family. Sperm banks exist, and while single parenting is hard, it's harder to be a parent with a spouse doesn't do any work and also keeps spending what money you do have on pot. Which, by the way, you don't want to have around kids.
posted by emjaybee at 1:57 PM on December 18, 2021 [10 favorites]
posted by emjaybee at 1:57 PM on December 18, 2021 [10 favorites]
Best answer: One thing that sticks out to me about your question is you say things about how you want to have kids, have a regular middle class life, etc, and then undercut yourself by saying, "oh, but maybe I'm just romanticizing the idea of having kids" or "maybe I'm disillusioned" or "maybe I wouldn't be a good parent anyway." Like you are trying to find a reason why you don't "really" want the things you want and you just "think" you want them when in reality, it wouldn't be a good idea.
Here's the thing, these are totally normal things to want. No explanation or justification is required for wanting these things. Tons of people want to have children. It's a very common human desire, you wanting this is not a sign that you are just trying to make up for your terrible childhood or have unrealistic expectations. Your overall goals for stability are very modest and very common, you're not asking for "too much" to look for a partner who shares the same goals.
Rather, I think your struggles with your sense of self worth are causing you to doubt yourself and stay in a relationship that isn't a good fit.
He may be a great guy for someone else, someone who is more content to just drift along without particular goals, but this doesn't sound like a good relationship for you long term. You're either going to be dragging him along with your life decisions, feeling like you don't have an equal partner in your life, or just giving up on your own goals because he's not enthusiastically on board. You deserve better than that. Your "post engagement anxiety" is your gut telling you it's time to get out of this relationship.
posted by Squalor Victoria at 2:00 PM on December 18, 2021 [13 favorites]
Here's the thing, these are totally normal things to want. No explanation or justification is required for wanting these things. Tons of people want to have children. It's a very common human desire, you wanting this is not a sign that you are just trying to make up for your terrible childhood or have unrealistic expectations. Your overall goals for stability are very modest and very common, you're not asking for "too much" to look for a partner who shares the same goals.
Rather, I think your struggles with your sense of self worth are causing you to doubt yourself and stay in a relationship that isn't a good fit.
He may be a great guy for someone else, someone who is more content to just drift along without particular goals, but this doesn't sound like a good relationship for you long term. You're either going to be dragging him along with your life decisions, feeling like you don't have an equal partner in your life, or just giving up on your own goals because he's not enthusiastically on board. You deserve better than that. Your "post engagement anxiety" is your gut telling you it's time to get out of this relationship.
posted by Squalor Victoria at 2:00 PM on December 18, 2021 [13 favorites]
children will give me a new purpose, focus to my life, hope, someones to care for, it would be such a good step in my development I feel
You do not have a baby to fix your shit. You do not bring a child into existence as a developmental prop for yourself. I mean, you shouldn't even really get a pet for those reasons.
You go to therapy and do your own work to find your purpose, focus for your life, hope, and development. You put that on a grown-ass adult with advanced degrees to help you, not a baby. Not a toddler. Not a teenager. This isn't a shortcut, and it's certainly not some kind of curse where you get relief from your trauma by letting your children inherit it.
You go do the work and make a shitload of healing and development happen to the point that you are fairly sure you can take on the myriad challenges of parenting. You stop the intergenerational trauma at you.
posted by Lyn Never at 5:50 PM on December 18, 2021 [43 favorites]
You do not have a baby to fix your shit. You do not bring a child into existence as a developmental prop for yourself. I mean, you shouldn't even really get a pet for those reasons.
You go to therapy and do your own work to find your purpose, focus for your life, hope, and development. You put that on a grown-ass adult with advanced degrees to help you, not a baby. Not a toddler. Not a teenager. This isn't a shortcut, and it's certainly not some kind of curse where you get relief from your trauma by letting your children inherit it.
You go do the work and make a shitload of healing and development happen to the point that you are fairly sure you can take on the myriad challenges of parenting. You stop the intergenerational trauma at you.
posted by Lyn Never at 5:50 PM on December 18, 2021 [43 favorites]
He is not going to change.
He will not change after you get married.
He is always going to be like this.
Is this what you want?
posted by SLC Mom at 6:51 PM on December 18, 2021 [1 favorite]
He will not change after you get married.
He is always going to be like this.
Is this what you want?
posted by SLC Mom at 6:51 PM on December 18, 2021 [1 favorite]
A relationship can work if you've got different hobbies, spend a lot of downtime pursuing separate interests, have separate goals, etc., but I think you've still got to have something you're building towards together. Whether that's a tangible goal or something more abstract, you both should agree on what your shared mission is. Do you and your fiancé have that?
You're concerned about his (lack of) goals for his life. What are his goals for your relationship? I'd be curious what he'd say if you ask about what made him decide to propose. What does he want out of marriage? How does he think being married will change your relationship?
It might take some coaxing to get past "I dunno, I love you, I just want you around, this just seemed like the next step," but maybe there are aspects of, for example, his parents' marriage that he wants to have in his own life. It took him a long time to save up for the ring, so obviously this is something he's wanted and thought about for a long time.
You say you're spiraling, and that can be hard to stop by yourself. I think talking to your partner about what you both want from/with each other would afford you some clarity. For better or worse, it should help you measure the distance between your perspectives. You two have a lot more things to figure out before you sign a marriage certificate. Best case scenario, you can talk and either reassure yourself that there is a foundation worth building on. Worst case scenario, you get on the same page about which things you're not on the same page about -- and then you can decide what to do about that.
posted by katieinshoes at 8:19 PM on December 18, 2021 [1 favorite]
You're concerned about his (lack of) goals for his life. What are his goals for your relationship? I'd be curious what he'd say if you ask about what made him decide to propose. What does he want out of marriage? How does he think being married will change your relationship?
It might take some coaxing to get past "I dunno, I love you, I just want you around, this just seemed like the next step," but maybe there are aspects of, for example, his parents' marriage that he wants to have in his own life. It took him a long time to save up for the ring, so obviously this is something he's wanted and thought about for a long time.
You say you're spiraling, and that can be hard to stop by yourself. I think talking to your partner about what you both want from/with each other would afford you some clarity. For better or worse, it should help you measure the distance between your perspectives. You two have a lot more things to figure out before you sign a marriage certificate. Best case scenario, you can talk and either reassure yourself that there is a foundation worth building on. Worst case scenario, you get on the same page about which things you're not on the same page about -- and then you can decide what to do about that.
posted by katieinshoes at 8:19 PM on December 18, 2021 [1 favorite]
Do be cautious about the pattern of when your partner exerts effort in your relationship. The house is free of pot smell and he’s folding the laundry this morning… does that ever happen when he doesn’t sense that you’re having doubts about the relationship?
posted by eviemath at 7:05 AM on December 19, 2021 [8 favorites]
posted by eviemath at 7:05 AM on December 19, 2021 [8 favorites]
A lot of people have done a great job of covering the fact that he will not change if you get married. He will not change for you. He will not change unless he wants to, and it really doesn't sound like he wants to. It sounds like he likes his life the way it is right now, and would like for his life continue this way indefinitely.
What I also want to point out, though, is that you also will not change by getting married. You will not change by having a baby, or by buying a house, or by accomplishing any of your other life goals. If you're not happy with yourself--with the way you relate to your past, with your ability to create strong attachments with other people--none of that is going to change if you're married and live in a house with a white picket fence and have a savings account. That's deep, personal work you need to do, likely with the help of a therapist or other professional you trust. But it's work you have to do for yourself. Please, please don't have a child because you're hoping the child will help you feel a connection with others that you've been able to find elsewhere. That's too much pressure to put on a child. Figure out your purpose in life, your hopes, and how to create caring relationships with others first, now. Then once you've done that work and feel more contented and settled with yourself, you can think about whether you want to have a child, hopefully with a partner who really wants to have a child with you.
posted by decathecting at 9:25 AM on December 19, 2021 [6 favorites]
What I also want to point out, though, is that you also will not change by getting married. You will not change by having a baby, or by buying a house, or by accomplishing any of your other life goals. If you're not happy with yourself--with the way you relate to your past, with your ability to create strong attachments with other people--none of that is going to change if you're married and live in a house with a white picket fence and have a savings account. That's deep, personal work you need to do, likely with the help of a therapist or other professional you trust. But it's work you have to do for yourself. Please, please don't have a child because you're hoping the child will help you feel a connection with others that you've been able to find elsewhere. That's too much pressure to put on a child. Figure out your purpose in life, your hopes, and how to create caring relationships with others first, now. Then once you've done that work and feel more contented and settled with yourself, you can think about whether you want to have a child, hopefully with a partner who really wants to have a child with you.
posted by decathecting at 9:25 AM on December 19, 2021 [6 favorites]
Best answer: Gently, things like feeding the cats and mostly doing the laundry are so unimpressive that I always kind of find it informative when someone takes pains to point it out in defense of their partner ... like, ANY person worth being in a relationship with should be proactively doing an equitable share of housework, this should be a bare minimum to entry and not some sort of highlight. It would be like me trying to talk up my car by pointing out that it has a steering wheel and four - count em, FOUR! - tires. And they're mostly not even flat!
Less gently, your dude sounds like he'd have been fun to hang out with in high school, but as you both near 30 he sounds tiresome and immature. I loved my high school years and still love video games at 46, but don't think I want to hang out with (let alone be married to) someone whose mentalities haven't evolved beyond high school.
It sounds to me like your relationship has been floating along for several years more due to comfort and inertia rather than because you've been joyfully building a future together - super easy to do when there's no major decisions or commitments about to happen, but now that he's proposed I would imagine everything feels a whole lot more real, and that many things that you've been pushing under your mental/emotional rug are suddenly un-ignorable. He is very, very unlikely to change. Your married life is very, very likely to be just like it is right now. Are you okay with that? Because it doesn't sound like you're okay with that - and I wouldn't be, either.
(and nthing the advice to seek out counseling for yourself and work on your childhood pain before having kids - you deserve to do that both for your future kids AND for yourself)
posted by DingoMutt at 9:43 AM on December 19, 2021 [13 favorites]
Less gently, your dude sounds like he'd have been fun to hang out with in high school, but as you both near 30 he sounds tiresome and immature. I loved my high school years and still love video games at 46, but don't think I want to hang out with (let alone be married to) someone whose mentalities haven't evolved beyond high school.
It sounds to me like your relationship has been floating along for several years more due to comfort and inertia rather than because you've been joyfully building a future together - super easy to do when there's no major decisions or commitments about to happen, but now that he's proposed I would imagine everything feels a whole lot more real, and that many things that you've been pushing under your mental/emotional rug are suddenly un-ignorable. He is very, very unlikely to change. Your married life is very, very likely to be just like it is right now. Are you okay with that? Because it doesn't sound like you're okay with that - and I wouldn't be, either.
(and nthing the advice to seek out counseling for yourself and work on your childhood pain before having kids - you deserve to do that both for your future kids AND for yourself)
posted by DingoMutt at 9:43 AM on December 19, 2021 [13 favorites]
In the back of my mind I have always hoped he would change some ...
People don't change. If you don't see a future with the person he is now, there isn't one.
posted by dg at 2:33 PM on December 19, 2021 [1 favorite]
People don't change. If you don't see a future with the person he is now, there isn't one.
posted by dg at 2:33 PM on December 19, 2021 [1 favorite]
Best answer: I can well imagine that this guy thinks he's won the jackpot with you. He can drift along, stoned to the gills, in the house that you've furnished and that you maintain, with zero expectations of financial accountability (where does that money go? Have you ever seen his credit card bill?)
In one of your comments you mentioned that your dad was always high and absent. There is a very good reason why marriage and family therapists look to one's upbringing to explain one's adult relationship patterns. You are way, way too accustomed to men being high and absent, so much so that you are completely missing what a glaring red flag his behavior is.
Don't beat yourself up about this mistake. This is how people learn, grow, mature. Just don't make a bigger mistake. Give him back his ring, move out (better yet, move *him* out), keep taking that financial planning training, and hold out for someone who is worth all the brains and energy and effort that you bring to a relationship.
posted by Sublimity at 6:33 PM on December 19, 2021 [12 favorites]
In one of your comments you mentioned that your dad was always high and absent. There is a very good reason why marriage and family therapists look to one's upbringing to explain one's adult relationship patterns. You are way, way too accustomed to men being high and absent, so much so that you are completely missing what a glaring red flag his behavior is.
Don't beat yourself up about this mistake. This is how people learn, grow, mature. Just don't make a bigger mistake. Give him back his ring, move out (better yet, move *him* out), keep taking that financial planning training, and hold out for someone who is worth all the brains and energy and effort that you bring to a relationship.
posted by Sublimity at 6:33 PM on December 19, 2021 [12 favorites]
You aren't too old to get paid for donating your eggs ... and you can freeze some of them. Or just dip into your savings, freeze your own eggs, and get away from this guy.
posted by cyndigo at 7:04 PM on December 19, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by cyndigo at 7:04 PM on December 19, 2021 [1 favorite]
Best answer: 29 is really young as in your have many, many years ahead of you to find a partner who shares your life vision, which is beautiful!! This guy sounds like a nice enough person but a pretty horrid partner for someone serious and focused like you. If you break up, I think with time you’ll be so glad you did because he’s bringing you down now; stay together and have kids and I can almost guarantee that you’ll be miserable (and divorced if you’re lucky) in a few years. You deserve to be happy and have a wonderful partner… who is out there is you’re willing to take the risk! Ultimately, the choice is yours but as I read your post, I see an amazing young woman who has great goals and the ability to achieve them. I mean, you’re already doing so much!
I am 38 and single. I also would like to be married and a mom one day… and could be if that were the biggest goal in my life. I may or may not achieve this goal/wish but am SOOOOOO GLAD I didn’t marry and have kids with any past partners who were like your current person. It has taken me a long time to appreciate who I am and how far I’ve come. I definitely have kissed a lot of toads but eventually left. My friends who stuck it out with their toads love their kids but are so unhappy with their marriages; conversely, those who kept trying and found lovely partners could tell you that being a parent is hard enough with a great partner. I don’t usually answer so fully sure of one perspective here because I want people to feel empowered to choose what’s best for them. He may turn things around as most of us do get more mature with him but it will likely be a slow and painful process for you both.
posted by smorgasbord at 7:06 PM on December 19, 2021 [3 favorites]
I am 38 and single. I also would like to be married and a mom one day… and could be if that were the biggest goal in my life. I may or may not achieve this goal/wish but am SOOOOOO GLAD I didn’t marry and have kids with any past partners who were like your current person. It has taken me a long time to appreciate who I am and how far I’ve come. I definitely have kissed a lot of toads but eventually left. My friends who stuck it out with their toads love their kids but are so unhappy with their marriages; conversely, those who kept trying and found lovely partners could tell you that being a parent is hard enough with a great partner. I don’t usually answer so fully sure of one perspective here because I want people to feel empowered to choose what’s best for them. He may turn things around as most of us do get more mature with him but it will likely be a slow and painful process for you both.
posted by smorgasbord at 7:06 PM on December 19, 2021 [3 favorites]
Please please do not marry this guy. All the things you resent now will only get worse with time. Please do not have kids with this guy. It will be so much harder to untangle your lives and figure out co-parenting later than to break up amicably now.
If you do want to really work this out, TALK to him. Don't be wishy washy, but tell him you do not want a guy who smokes so much weed (is he planning on being high around his kid?) Or a guy who spends more time with his friends than you. Be 100% honest. Try going to therapy together to have a neutral third party help you through these talks.
Only when you are happy, truly happy, and not making excuses for him or trying to explain here why he's maybe not that bad, then you can consider planning your life with this guy, if he has the same goals of kids, etc.
posted by never.was.and.never.will.be. at 7:48 PM on December 19, 2021
If you do want to really work this out, TALK to him. Don't be wishy washy, but tell him you do not want a guy who smokes so much weed (is he planning on being high around his kid?) Or a guy who spends more time with his friends than you. Be 100% honest. Try going to therapy together to have a neutral third party help you through these talks.
Only when you are happy, truly happy, and not making excuses for him or trying to explain here why he's maybe not that bad, then you can consider planning your life with this guy, if he has the same goals of kids, etc.
posted by never.was.and.never.will.be. at 7:48 PM on December 19, 2021
You might do therapy and make friends and decide that you're in a healthy place to have the kids you want in the future... Or you might not.
But at the moment, you are with your partner because you know they wouldn't be a good parent (they remind you of your dad in some ways) and that means you can avoid the problem.
This isn't the partner you want to be with long term. If he *changed* you would want to be with him long term, but that's not a reasonable thing to expect. Changing your partner vs changing who your partner is, is the reasonable thing to expect.
You have stuff to work on, like friends, and doing the financial peace university thing. It might not happen right away, but you'll regret it if you don't *let yourself* try to be the sort of person who could be a good parent.
You may find yourself with children in your life some other way, like providing respite care for kids in hard situations or making friends who have kids, so making sure kids are getting the level of attention they need from multiple adults! You can have those kids over for Christmas.
If you were to have your own kids, building your own support structure is important, you do need to work on your own friends, children really do *need* a village. Regardless of your age it is possible, people move to new cities and make new friend groups - it just involves building new skills, and letting people know you are going through a life transition. People are more likely to reach out with social invites when you are new to a city, or if you let them know you've had a relationship breakup and are making new friends etc, people just need to know that's what you're looking for.
Good luck!
posted by Elysum at 11:35 PM on December 19, 2021 [2 favorites]
But at the moment, you are with your partner because you know they wouldn't be a good parent (they remind you of your dad in some ways) and that means you can avoid the problem.
This isn't the partner you want to be with long term. If he *changed* you would want to be with him long term, but that's not a reasonable thing to expect. Changing your partner vs changing who your partner is, is the reasonable thing to expect.
You have stuff to work on, like friends, and doing the financial peace university thing. It might not happen right away, but you'll regret it if you don't *let yourself* try to be the sort of person who could be a good parent.
You may find yourself with children in your life some other way, like providing respite care for kids in hard situations or making friends who have kids, so making sure kids are getting the level of attention they need from multiple adults! You can have those kids over for Christmas.
If you were to have your own kids, building your own support structure is important, you do need to work on your own friends, children really do *need* a village. Regardless of your age it is possible, people move to new cities and make new friend groups - it just involves building new skills, and letting people know you are going through a life transition. People are more likely to reach out with social invites when you are new to a city, or if you let them know you've had a relationship breakup and are making new friends etc, people just need to know that's what you're looking for.
Good luck!
posted by Elysum at 11:35 PM on December 19, 2021 [2 favorites]
And please stop falling for the "time running out" thing, not unusual at 29. My wife was in a hopeless relationship from your age with someone who just wanted a free nanny for their existing kids and pretended the whole time to have reversed a vasectomy (the reason she wasn't becoming pregnant). She waited until 38 to realise nothing was happening and she needed to get out. At that point you need to decide whether you want kids and to get on with it. We have two fabulous boys now.
You have a whole decade to get single, get your life sorted, and meet a really good guy. They're out there waiting for you
posted by tillsbury at 1:29 AM on December 20, 2021 [4 favorites]
You have a whole decade to get single, get your life sorted, and meet a really good guy. They're out there waiting for you
posted by tillsbury at 1:29 AM on December 20, 2021 [4 favorites]
Best answer: In the back of my mind I have always hoped he would change some ...
That 4 year old post is a mirror of this one. He's not gonna change. Everyone was right then and the advice is the same now. Get rid of this guy.
posted by The_Vegetables at 8:50 AM on December 20, 2021 [3 favorites]
That 4 year old post is a mirror of this one. He's not gonna change. Everyone was right then and the advice is the same now. Get rid of this guy.
posted by The_Vegetables at 8:50 AM on December 20, 2021 [3 favorites]
Best answer: I had a boyfriend so much like your fiance that I feel I could've written this question. My boyfriend also had very successful parents, a cushy upbringing with lots of love and support, a low-paying job that he complained about but stayed at because he knew any other employer would expect a lot more out of him, similarly directionless friends coming and going at all hours of the day, no savings or assets, and a daily pot habit.
I loved him truly. We had so much fun together. He was funny, smart, affectionate, and talented in many things, and despite all his potential there wasn't much to show for it. We never fought about anything except his excessive pot smoking and his refusal to plan for the future. I don't care what anyone says about weed not being addictive - it absolutely is, if not chemically, then emotionally - it's a crutch when you need it every single day, an artificial and temporary escape.
One day he finally said that he wanted a nice, comfortable life like the one his parents had, and to raise a family with me. When I heard that, it didn't make me happy the way I thought it would. After all, I wanted those things too. But it hit me at that moment, that he meant he expected ME to provide him with that life, and I felt sick thinking about it. He was never going to grow up and be an equal partner, and why would he? As long as he had me and my coattails to ride on, he didn't need to. He wasn't willing to sacrifice any of his own comfort in order to strive for anything better. I was to sacrifice my comfort. I was to strive for the both of us.
I broke up with him and he spent months crying and begging me to take him back. He swore up and down that he would change but I knew it wasn't true. That was 15 years ago. I google him from time to time, and see that he is still at the exact same job. Still living at the exact same party house with the same friends whose only aim is to get drunk and high as often as possible. Nothing changed except that he is now well into in his 40's and still living like he's fresh out of high school. If losing me wasn't enough for him to realize the consequences of his choices, then me staying definitely wouldn't have accomplished anything except to waste my own time and tears on someone who would be content to hold me back from the things I wanted.
Life is way too short. Please don't shortchange yourself. Please don't end up looking back with regret 15 years from now.
posted by keep it under cover at 6:16 PM on December 20, 2021 [16 favorites]
I loved him truly. We had so much fun together. He was funny, smart, affectionate, and talented in many things, and despite all his potential there wasn't much to show for it. We never fought about anything except his excessive pot smoking and his refusal to plan for the future. I don't care what anyone says about weed not being addictive - it absolutely is, if not chemically, then emotionally - it's a crutch when you need it every single day, an artificial and temporary escape.
One day he finally said that he wanted a nice, comfortable life like the one his parents had, and to raise a family with me. When I heard that, it didn't make me happy the way I thought it would. After all, I wanted those things too. But it hit me at that moment, that he meant he expected ME to provide him with that life, and I felt sick thinking about it. He was never going to grow up and be an equal partner, and why would he? As long as he had me and my coattails to ride on, he didn't need to. He wasn't willing to sacrifice any of his own comfort in order to strive for anything better. I was to sacrifice my comfort. I was to strive for the both of us.
I broke up with him and he spent months crying and begging me to take him back. He swore up and down that he would change but I knew it wasn't true. That was 15 years ago. I google him from time to time, and see that he is still at the exact same job. Still living at the exact same party house with the same friends whose only aim is to get drunk and high as often as possible. Nothing changed except that he is now well into in his 40's and still living like he's fresh out of high school. If losing me wasn't enough for him to realize the consequences of his choices, then me staying definitely wouldn't have accomplished anything except to waste my own time and tears on someone who would be content to hold me back from the things I wanted.
Life is way too short. Please don't shortchange yourself. Please don't end up looking back with regret 15 years from now.
posted by keep it under cover at 6:16 PM on December 20, 2021 [16 favorites]
Have you sat down with him to tell him how you feel? Communication is very important in a relationship.
posted by GiveUpNed at 10:42 AM on December 23, 2021
posted by GiveUpNed at 10:42 AM on December 23, 2021
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by randomquestion at 8:33 AM on December 18, 2021 [69 favorites]