Grandma wants me to move back home to live with my mom when she passes
December 9, 2021 7:19 PM Subscribe
I'm 39 years old, and I have a difficult relationship with my mother. In short, I love her, but I feel like I have no voice, and can't be my own person when I'm with her. She has good intentions, but criticized me a ton when growing up, easily gets upset (so you have to walk on eggshells around her) and is heavily dependent on others for everything since she lived with my Grandma her whole life, like a child who never left home. I'm not allowed to have feelings around her aside from being happy all the time. No crying, being angry, etc. Not allowed.
Basically after her divorce from my dad, my mom moved back home with her parents (my grandparents) and never left. So my mom raised us at our grandparents' house, and my grandparents never made my mom move out, never made her pay rent, bills, whatsoever. So the result is that my mom is in her mid-60s and has never become an independent adult. She had full custody of my brother and me and cut us off from our father growing up (I had no memory of him). Our childhood was very stable and comfortable (despite the things above), for which I'm very grateful, but I have to say that it is almost too comfortable. About 10 years ago I reconnected with my dad and I have been building a relationship with him ever since. Otherwise he is not in the picture with my mom.
I was lucky enough to be able to get a job in my late 20s that allowed me to move out, across the country. I finally had space to start figuring out who I am and what I want out of life. I haven't figured those things out yet, but it's a journey. I haven't met a partner like I hoped, but maybe one day I will.
Anyway, on to my question. I'm home for the holidays for the first time since COVID. I didn't want to come home because my Grandma has been getting more insistent about how she wants me to move back home. She kept asking what I need to go back to California for, it's not like I have family there. She has never shown much interest in my life there or what I'm doing or who I am. Today, she said that she doesn't know how much longer she has to live (but is trying to make it to 100) and she told me that after she passes she wants me to move back to the house and live with my mom so that my mom won't be alone. I told her that I have issues with my relationship with my mom, and that I would like to be free to make my own choices about where I live. I would be unhappy living with my mom. As much as I love her, it would be a living hell. My mom would simultaneously be like a "daughter", depending on me for everything (money, transportation, emotional support, social life, sounding board, etc), while at the same time, telling me what to do every second of the day, not showing interest in who I am as a person, not holding space for my opinions if they differ from hers, etc. My mom isn't a bad person, she is just emotionally immature. I told my Grandma this and she said she understands how I feel, and she feels the same way about my mom and she blames herself for not raising her right.
I feel like I'm in an impossible position. I don't want my Grandma to worry. She's 93 years old. I told her not to worry and that I'd figure something out. She said she will not be stressed as long as I'm here. So I'm responsible now for her feelings too? How is this even fair??!! I don't want to be the selfish one, who doesn't care for family. My brother is in the area but spends most of his time with his girlfriend, so my Grandma doesn't expect him to be the one to live with my mom. My mom and Grandma did do a lot for us growing up, and I want to honor and respect that. And we will need to figure out what my mom will do, living in that huge house all by herself after my Grandma passes. She can't drive anywhere (because she has a driving phobia), is too scared to do anything by herself, etc. She goes to work every day using Uber but that's about it. The job doesn't pay her a living wage by any means. So she will need help after my Grandma passes and I understand my Grandma's concern and why she wants me to move back home.
On the other hand, I don't think it's fair that it's now on me to have to bear the burden of dropping my life in California (which NO ONE in the family, including my Grandma, has shown much interest in) like it never happened, and moving back to NC. No one considers what I want, what would make me happy. They just tell me they want me to come home. It feels like a mandate and not an option. I thought parents and Grandparents are supposed to encourage their children and grandchildren to seek their own dreams and fly. I'd never burden my kids or grandkids with this (if I ever become a parent or grandparent). Just because I don't have a partner or kids now, it doesn't mean my life is something I can just drop like it never happened. Maybe if my mom were easier to live with or if they took the time to see ME, I'd be more willing to consider it. My mom is already driving me crazy, telling me what to do and how to do it, and not really listening to me. I don't like living in the suburbs where there's nothing to do. I like the energy of the big city and living in a place with decent transit and walkability.
Anyway, I have to be here at home for the rest of the month. I want to enjoy the holiday, but my Grandma constantly making references to me moving home or guilting me into moving back is burning me out. I want to go back to California, I really do. I told her my concerns that I expressed above, and she said she understands. She said maybe my brother can stay with our mom. But then she joked later that she's going to kidnap me and lock me up in her closet, and I won't have any control over the situation. She was joking but still. How did this all become my responsibility? I told her I am not making ANY decisions about moving right now and that I'm going to work with a therapist to figure SOMETHING out. I haven't found a therapist yet, but I do need to figure it out. I have no idea what to do. I feel like I lose either way. I would love any insights. Am I selfish for feeling this conflicted and not wanting to take on this burden? What should I do? I'm all out of ideas for how to handle this situation, so if you have any, please help!
And my family isn't bad. They are all great people. I am not trying to paint them out to be such. We just have too many emotional problems, and I am not healed enough myself to be able to live with it 24/7.
Basically after her divorce from my dad, my mom moved back home with her parents (my grandparents) and never left. So my mom raised us at our grandparents' house, and my grandparents never made my mom move out, never made her pay rent, bills, whatsoever. So the result is that my mom is in her mid-60s and has never become an independent adult. She had full custody of my brother and me and cut us off from our father growing up (I had no memory of him). Our childhood was very stable and comfortable (despite the things above), for which I'm very grateful, but I have to say that it is almost too comfortable. About 10 years ago I reconnected with my dad and I have been building a relationship with him ever since. Otherwise he is not in the picture with my mom.
I was lucky enough to be able to get a job in my late 20s that allowed me to move out, across the country. I finally had space to start figuring out who I am and what I want out of life. I haven't figured those things out yet, but it's a journey. I haven't met a partner like I hoped, but maybe one day I will.
Anyway, on to my question. I'm home for the holidays for the first time since COVID. I didn't want to come home because my Grandma has been getting more insistent about how she wants me to move back home. She kept asking what I need to go back to California for, it's not like I have family there. She has never shown much interest in my life there or what I'm doing or who I am. Today, she said that she doesn't know how much longer she has to live (but is trying to make it to 100) and she told me that after she passes she wants me to move back to the house and live with my mom so that my mom won't be alone. I told her that I have issues with my relationship with my mom, and that I would like to be free to make my own choices about where I live. I would be unhappy living with my mom. As much as I love her, it would be a living hell. My mom would simultaneously be like a "daughter", depending on me for everything (money, transportation, emotional support, social life, sounding board, etc), while at the same time, telling me what to do every second of the day, not showing interest in who I am as a person, not holding space for my opinions if they differ from hers, etc. My mom isn't a bad person, she is just emotionally immature. I told my Grandma this and she said she understands how I feel, and she feels the same way about my mom and she blames herself for not raising her right.
I feel like I'm in an impossible position. I don't want my Grandma to worry. She's 93 years old. I told her not to worry and that I'd figure something out. She said she will not be stressed as long as I'm here. So I'm responsible now for her feelings too? How is this even fair??!! I don't want to be the selfish one, who doesn't care for family. My brother is in the area but spends most of his time with his girlfriend, so my Grandma doesn't expect him to be the one to live with my mom. My mom and Grandma did do a lot for us growing up, and I want to honor and respect that. And we will need to figure out what my mom will do, living in that huge house all by herself after my Grandma passes. She can't drive anywhere (because she has a driving phobia), is too scared to do anything by herself, etc. She goes to work every day using Uber but that's about it. The job doesn't pay her a living wage by any means. So she will need help after my Grandma passes and I understand my Grandma's concern and why she wants me to move back home.
On the other hand, I don't think it's fair that it's now on me to have to bear the burden of dropping my life in California (which NO ONE in the family, including my Grandma, has shown much interest in) like it never happened, and moving back to NC. No one considers what I want, what would make me happy. They just tell me they want me to come home. It feels like a mandate and not an option. I thought parents and Grandparents are supposed to encourage their children and grandchildren to seek their own dreams and fly. I'd never burden my kids or grandkids with this (if I ever become a parent or grandparent). Just because I don't have a partner or kids now, it doesn't mean my life is something I can just drop like it never happened. Maybe if my mom were easier to live with or if they took the time to see ME, I'd be more willing to consider it. My mom is already driving me crazy, telling me what to do and how to do it, and not really listening to me. I don't like living in the suburbs where there's nothing to do. I like the energy of the big city and living in a place with decent transit and walkability.
Anyway, I have to be here at home for the rest of the month. I want to enjoy the holiday, but my Grandma constantly making references to me moving home or guilting me into moving back is burning me out. I want to go back to California, I really do. I told her my concerns that I expressed above, and she said she understands. She said maybe my brother can stay with our mom. But then she joked later that she's going to kidnap me and lock me up in her closet, and I won't have any control over the situation. She was joking but still. How did this all become my responsibility? I told her I am not making ANY decisions about moving right now and that I'm going to work with a therapist to figure SOMETHING out. I haven't found a therapist yet, but I do need to figure it out. I have no idea what to do. I feel like I lose either way. I would love any insights. Am I selfish for feeling this conflicted and not wanting to take on this burden? What should I do? I'm all out of ideas for how to handle this situation, so if you have any, please help!
And my family isn't bad. They are all great people. I am not trying to paint them out to be such. We just have too many emotional problems, and I am not healed enough myself to be able to live with it 24/7.
Your mom is not your responsibility.
You are not being selfish AT ALL.
I think you are doing a darn good job of listening to what your gut is telling you (which is that what you are being asked is Just Not Right).
These people do not have your best interests in mind or in heart.
Look up : parentification
Miserable people try to get others to make the same choices they did, so they don’t have to feel miserable about their own choices. Misery loves company. Gramma, unsaid: “Against my wishes, I sacrificed a lot, by taking care of your mother way longer than I should have. Why can’t you do the same?”
I’m sorry you have to deal with this. It’s incredibly selfish and unfair of Grandma to put this on you.
I would get on that plane to California and never look back.
It’s your life.
In the meantime, you do not owe them a damn thing. You have every right to — for the time you are home — tell them what they want to hear, so they will give you some peace (hopefully). Then after you’re gone, the story can change. You’re an adult. You can control the narrative and you owe them no honesty nor full disclosure, esp if they are treating you as they are. “Hey Gramma, calling you from CA… I got a great new job! I met a nice guy / girl! “. Whatever.
Don’t ruin your own life by living someone else’s.
posted by armoir from antproof case at 7:45 PM on December 9, 2021 [32 favorites]
You are not being selfish AT ALL.
I think you are doing a darn good job of listening to what your gut is telling you (which is that what you are being asked is Just Not Right).
These people do not have your best interests in mind or in heart.
Look up : parentification
Miserable people try to get others to make the same choices they did, so they don’t have to feel miserable about their own choices. Misery loves company. Gramma, unsaid: “Against my wishes, I sacrificed a lot, by taking care of your mother way longer than I should have. Why can’t you do the same?”
I’m sorry you have to deal with this. It’s incredibly selfish and unfair of Grandma to put this on you.
I would get on that plane to California and never look back.
It’s your life.
In the meantime, you do not owe them a damn thing. You have every right to — for the time you are home — tell them what they want to hear, so they will give you some peace (hopefully). Then after you’re gone, the story can change. You’re an adult. You can control the narrative and you owe them no honesty nor full disclosure, esp if they are treating you as they are. “Hey Gramma, calling you from CA… I got a great new job! I met a nice guy / girl! “. Whatever.
Don’t ruin your own life by living someone else’s.
posted by armoir from antproof case at 7:45 PM on December 9, 2021 [32 favorites]
And I realize you've been raised with your grandparents' beliefs about your mother and how she isn't really an adult. My saying she's an adult and might get therapy or fall in love or whatever probably sounds unrealistic in the extreme to you. But she is an adult, and people who've been deeply dependent on others are often capable of becoming independent when they have to (often because of a death). It isn't helpful for you to join in your grandmother's poor parenting and savior behavior around your mother. Mom is a grown woman. Expressing the idea that she is a grownup who is fully capable of learning and evolving and adapting and getting therapy and overcoming her phobias and so on when grandma is gone, without your or your brother's live-in help, may be useful for everyone in this situation.
posted by shadygrove at 7:49 PM on December 9, 2021 [41 favorites]
posted by shadygrove at 7:49 PM on December 9, 2021 [41 favorites]
You are not selfish! And you are not responsible for other people’s feelings.
I personally have a lot of complicated feelings about my role in taking care of my parents as they grow older, but even complicated feelings don’t make you fiscally responsible for your mom. When she is, eventually, on her own, it is *her* responsibility, not yours, to make rent, take charge of her medical care, manage her commute, etc.
I come from a poor family, which is a blessing in disguise insofar as it means there is no worry about “getting cut out of the will” or cut off from financial support - it sounds like you support yourself, too, and aren’t being told by your grandma that she *would* leave you independent wealth on the condition that you come home and take care of your mom.
Have you ever talked to your mom/grandma about money stuff? It’s hard as hell, but it can be really worth it. Would it help to make a plan for that talk together with a social worker from your hometown who specializes in elder care? That might be a practical route to take even if you can’t find a therapist in the next couple of weeks.
Many communities have non-profits dedicated to helping retirees and their families navigate support systems like Medicare/Medicaid, as well as to learn about strategies or services that they might not have known were available. (Some examples I’ve found in searches about helping my own parents: does your mom qualify for disability? Your grandma might be able to put money in a specific kind of trust that could help your mom manage approved expenses like groceries, rent, utilities, entertainment costs, etc. My home state of New York has various ways for seniors to get extra money for help with heating costs, internet connectivity, etc.)
A therapist will probably help sort through feelings and find a good, steady place where you feel like you’re able to act in accordance with your values, rather than in response to other people’s demands. I wish you luck and send you lots of empathy!
posted by rrrrrrrrrt at 7:52 PM on December 9, 2021 [9 favorites]
I personally have a lot of complicated feelings about my role in taking care of my parents as they grow older, but even complicated feelings don’t make you fiscally responsible for your mom. When she is, eventually, on her own, it is *her* responsibility, not yours, to make rent, take charge of her medical care, manage her commute, etc.
I come from a poor family, which is a blessing in disguise insofar as it means there is no worry about “getting cut out of the will” or cut off from financial support - it sounds like you support yourself, too, and aren’t being told by your grandma that she *would* leave you independent wealth on the condition that you come home and take care of your mom.
Have you ever talked to your mom/grandma about money stuff? It’s hard as hell, but it can be really worth it. Would it help to make a plan for that talk together with a social worker from your hometown who specializes in elder care? That might be a practical route to take even if you can’t find a therapist in the next couple of weeks.
Many communities have non-profits dedicated to helping retirees and their families navigate support systems like Medicare/Medicaid, as well as to learn about strategies or services that they might not have known were available. (Some examples I’ve found in searches about helping my own parents: does your mom qualify for disability? Your grandma might be able to put money in a specific kind of trust that could help your mom manage approved expenses like groceries, rent, utilities, entertainment costs, etc. My home state of New York has various ways for seniors to get extra money for help with heating costs, internet connectivity, etc.)
A therapist will probably help sort through feelings and find a good, steady place where you feel like you’re able to act in accordance with your values, rather than in response to other people’s demands. I wish you luck and send you lots of empathy!
posted by rrrrrrrrrt at 7:52 PM on December 9, 2021 [9 favorites]
I would just smile and nod. Yes, it would be nice to move back. Uh huh. Then change the subject. You're not moving back no matter what they have to say, so don't let them bait you into a pointless argument. Break out the scrabble, watch something they like on tv, talk about something else.
posted by bleep at 7:52 PM on December 9, 2021 [20 favorites]
posted by bleep at 7:52 PM on December 9, 2021 [20 favorites]
Fwoo - shadygrove, your comments are wisdom for me to listen to. Thank you.
posted by rrrrrrrrrt at 7:53 PM on December 9, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by rrrrrrrrrt at 7:53 PM on December 9, 2021 [4 favorites]
Tell them you will not be moving back and you won't be discussing it. When they push, walk away, cut your visit short, hang up. Maybe explore options to help your mother become more independent--therapy, budgeting classes, socialization (church, volunteering). Offer these options to her, and then your mom can choose to grow up or choose not to. If she knows you're not moving back, she knows she needs to prepare. It's up to her to do that. You can't control her. You're not responsible for her choices or her feelings.
You are not selfish.
posted by Mavri at 8:32 PM on December 9, 2021 [6 favorites]
You are not selfish.
posted by Mavri at 8:32 PM on December 9, 2021 [6 favorites]
I knew someone when I was growing up who was diagnosed with stage 4 cancer, and asked his eldest son to move back home because there was so little time left. The son, who had a specialized profession that could only be practiced several states away, in one way or another. The father (who was sincere in his original request), went on to live another dozen years. Had the son taken that much time out of his career at age 25, say, he might never have been able to return to it. If you're in your late 20s now, you're at prime career-building age, if you move home and get caught up in caretaking rather than career, or if there are few career opportunities for you there, statistically, you might never be able to economically recover. So what your grandmother is asking is much bigger than it looks on the surface. Stick to your guns if moving back home isn't right for you.
posted by Violet Blue at 8:35 PM on December 9, 2021 [30 favorites]
posted by Violet Blue at 8:35 PM on December 9, 2021 [30 favorites]
It sounds like your grandma and mom need to meet with a social worker who can help walk them through all the resources and supports available to both of them. That way they don't have to see you as the only solution to your mom's dependence
You could, while setting some clear boundaries about not moving back to NC, agree to meet with a social worker all together to understand what the various options are.
You can start with your county or state senior services agency and go from there.
A visit with a lawyer specializing in elder law might be able to help set up finances or other structures to make sure your mom has a basic safety net in place.
You do not have to be the safety net. There are options.
posted by brookeb at 8:36 PM on December 9, 2021 [9 favorites]
You could, while setting some clear boundaries about not moving back to NC, agree to meet with a social worker all together to understand what the various options are.
You can start with your county or state senior services agency and go from there.
A visit with a lawyer specializing in elder law might be able to help set up finances or other structures to make sure your mom has a basic safety net in place.
You do not have to be the safety net. There are options.
posted by brookeb at 8:36 PM on December 9, 2021 [9 favorites]
My cred: I lived with my grandmother until she passed away in her 90s. My parents lived around the corner. It was fucking awesome. (It also had its share of family stresses and dysfunctions, so some of my suggestions might sound flip or dismissive).
You do not have to move 3000 miles across the country to live with your mother, and no one can make you.
Things I would do in your shoes: Redirect all conversations about you moving back, Mom needing help, etc in relentlessly cheerful and positive ways. "Mom will need you!" "Mom has a good job and raised two great kids. She is a capable person who can solve problems." "We're worried about the future!" "Well, I love seeing you and we don't know what the future holds. You'll probably live another 10 years at least!" "Your brother never visits!" "I'm sure that will change when he and girlfriend have kids!" (Will your brother be mad at you about the kid thing? Maybe! He can come visit and set the record straight! I'm serious. Hang him out to dry.)
Offer to help your grandparents get their papers in order while you are home this month, meeting with an estate attorney and making sure your mom's access to the house is secure (if that's what your grandparents want). Either they've already done this (good), they take you up on your offer (fine, productive, reduces worry for everyone), or they get freaked out about talking about money and stop asking you (not great but solves a WHOLE lot of problems right now).
You don't have to stay the whole month if they are stressing you out. Maybe you go visit a high school friend for a couple days. Maybe that friend's name is "Courtyard Marriott."
posted by Snarl Furillo at 8:42 PM on December 9, 2021 [36 favorites]
You do not have to move 3000 miles across the country to live with your mother, and no one can make you.
Things I would do in your shoes: Redirect all conversations about you moving back, Mom needing help, etc in relentlessly cheerful and positive ways. "Mom will need you!" "Mom has a good job and raised two great kids. She is a capable person who can solve problems." "We're worried about the future!" "Well, I love seeing you and we don't know what the future holds. You'll probably live another 10 years at least!" "Your brother never visits!" "I'm sure that will change when he and girlfriend have kids!" (Will your brother be mad at you about the kid thing? Maybe! He can come visit and set the record straight! I'm serious. Hang him out to dry.)
Offer to help your grandparents get their papers in order while you are home this month, meeting with an estate attorney and making sure your mom's access to the house is secure (if that's what your grandparents want). Either they've already done this (good), they take you up on your offer (fine, productive, reduces worry for everyone), or they get freaked out about talking about money and stop asking you (not great but solves a WHOLE lot of problems right now).
You don't have to stay the whole month if they are stressing you out. Maybe you go visit a high school friend for a couple days. Maybe that friend's name is "Courtyard Marriott."
posted by Snarl Furillo at 8:42 PM on December 9, 2021 [36 favorites]
OK I am no expert but I have one thing to say.
Even if it _were_ selfish to put your life ahead of any other considerations in this situation, _that's_okay_. Nothing wrong with that.
Okay, two things (I just thought of one more): you are not responsible for your Mom's financial situation. If she inherits the house, the best thing for her to do is to sell it, put the money in the bank, and use that money monthly to rent (or purchase) a place that she _can_ afford with her current salary. If you later are in a good situation and want to help out, that's okay for you to do but I don't think you should be obligated.
posted by TimHare at 8:57 PM on December 9, 2021 [4 favorites]
Even if it _were_ selfish to put your life ahead of any other considerations in this situation, _that's_okay_. Nothing wrong with that.
Okay, two things (I just thought of one more): you are not responsible for your Mom's financial situation. If she inherits the house, the best thing for her to do is to sell it, put the money in the bank, and use that money monthly to rent (or purchase) a place that she _can_ afford with her current salary. If you later are in a good situation and want to help out, that's okay for you to do but I don't think you should be obligated.
posted by TimHare at 8:57 PM on December 9, 2021 [4 favorites]
"I haven't met a partner like I hoped, but maybe one day I will...My brother is in the area but spends most of his time with his girlfriend, so my Grandma doesn't expect him to be the one to live with my mom."
I also want to say that there is an EXTREMELY strong cultural expectation that daughters, ESPECIALLY single daughters, become the primary and uncompensated caregivers of elderly family members, while sons are expected to help move furniture occasionally. (That is essentially what your mom did when she became single, and for her to become more independent now would be a betrayal of her probably unspoken agreement with her parents to help them in their old age, in exchange for their help raising her children.). This expectation is probably driving some of your grandmother's insistence that YOU move home while your brother, WHO NEVER LEFT, provides the expected furniture moving and twice-yearly gutter cleaning. It's bullshit and you don't have to subscribe to it. You can decide for yourself how much or little and what kind of assistance you are able to provide to your mom in the future.
posted by Snarl Furillo at 8:58 PM on December 9, 2021 [61 favorites]
I also want to say that there is an EXTREMELY strong cultural expectation that daughters, ESPECIALLY single daughters, become the primary and uncompensated caregivers of elderly family members, while sons are expected to help move furniture occasionally. (That is essentially what your mom did when she became single, and for her to become more independent now would be a betrayal of her probably unspoken agreement with her parents to help them in their old age, in exchange for their help raising her children.). This expectation is probably driving some of your grandmother's insistence that YOU move home while your brother, WHO NEVER LEFT, provides the expected furniture moving and twice-yearly gutter cleaning. It's bullshit and you don't have to subscribe to it. You can decide for yourself how much or little and what kind of assistance you are able to provide to your mom in the future.
posted by Snarl Furillo at 8:58 PM on December 9, 2021 [61 favorites]
No.
is a complete sentence. Remember that. You're going to need it.
I could be totally wrong, but here's my guesses from what you've said - and not said - up above.
I suspect your mother landed somewhere in the "borderline personality" section, with some dependency issues that were encouraged and enabled by your grandparents.
I don't have a good read on your grandmother from what you've said, other than controlling, and some things that suggest to me there might be covert narcissist traits, too. I also see things that suggest there might be a golden child/scapegoat dynamic going on with you and your brother, but I'm not sure who is who, or if it is perhaps one that changes. (Honestly, the demand that you move back - and that you left in the first place - suggest both that you're the scapegoat, and that things weren't nearly as rosy as you're now remembering.
You're really not obligated to these people for anything. You escaped for a reason - so YOU could have a life. If they manage to guilt you into moving back, you will be giving that up, I guarantee it. They'll chip away at you a bit at a time, and in the end, you'll hate yourself for it. I'd really recommend not doing that.
Really.
Spending the rest of your mother's life walking on eggshells around her is NOT something to look forward to. If she won't do well alone, then she needs the phone number for services, preferably starting with the therapy I'd bet she never got. You're not qualified to provide that sort of help, I'd bet... because if you were, you wouldn't be asking this question here.
posted by stormyteal at 9:16 PM on December 9, 2021 [13 favorites]
is a complete sentence. Remember that. You're going to need it.
I could be totally wrong, but here's my guesses from what you've said - and not said - up above.
I suspect your mother landed somewhere in the "borderline personality" section, with some dependency issues that were encouraged and enabled by your grandparents.
I don't have a good read on your grandmother from what you've said, other than controlling, and some things that suggest to me there might be covert narcissist traits, too. I also see things that suggest there might be a golden child/scapegoat dynamic going on with you and your brother, but I'm not sure who is who, or if it is perhaps one that changes. (Honestly, the demand that you move back - and that you left in the first place - suggest both that you're the scapegoat, and that things weren't nearly as rosy as you're now remembering.
You're really not obligated to these people for anything. You escaped for a reason - so YOU could have a life. If they manage to guilt you into moving back, you will be giving that up, I guarantee it. They'll chip away at you a bit at a time, and in the end, you'll hate yourself for it. I'd really recommend not doing that.
Really.
Spending the rest of your mother's life walking on eggshells around her is NOT something to look forward to. If she won't do well alone, then she needs the phone number for services, preferably starting with the therapy I'd bet she never got. You're not qualified to provide that sort of help, I'd bet... because if you were, you wouldn't be asking this question here.
posted by stormyteal at 9:16 PM on December 9, 2021 [13 favorites]
This is not your responsibility. Your grandmother has enabled this behavior from your mom, to the extent that she's trying to perpetuate it after she's gone by putting you in her role.
Do you really have to stay for the next month? What happens if you just go back to California now?
I'm not saying you should consider this, but if your grandmother was truly worried about your mom, she'd be asking you to take your mother in. Note that she's trying to get you to disrupt your entire life. No is a fine answer. Please don't feel guilty or bad. If you do, that's a great conversation for therapy.
posted by bluedaisy at 9:26 PM on December 9, 2021 [4 favorites]
Do you really have to stay for the next month? What happens if you just go back to California now?
I'm not saying you should consider this, but if your grandmother was truly worried about your mom, she'd be asking you to take your mother in. Note that she's trying to get you to disrupt your entire life. No is a fine answer. Please don't feel guilty or bad. If you do, that's a great conversation for therapy.
posted by bluedaisy at 9:26 PM on December 9, 2021 [4 favorites]
When your grandma passes away, what is keeping your mom where she is? She could move to be closer to you, your brother, some internet crush in New Zealand… If she has enough things where she is that moving elsewhere when she no longer feels obligated to care for her aging parents doesn’t seem tenable, then she has enough things to build her own life by herself. Maybe she’ll move in with some friends her own age - lots of older people are eschewing nuclear family setups when their kids are grown and they look towards or begin retirement. Maybe she’ll inherit the house and get a raise and make it her own. Maybe she’ll go traveling. Maybe she’ll get connected with therapy via grief counseling and end up working on herself and her relationships. It’s up to her!
I’m so glad that my parents have transitioned our relationship to one that more resembles friendship than parent and child now that I’m heading towards middle age. I can ask them about their life plans and we can talk about family money and assets without a bunch of the baggage of hierarchy. I know you have a very complicated relationship with your mom, but have you approached her as an equal, ever? What does she think about her mom’s plans for her? Does she have anything she always wished she could do? Maybe you’ll be rebuffed, but then you’d know how little your thoughts and opinions matter to these folks and you can lower your respect accordingly.
I would super highly suggest getting some space for a bit a few times over your stay. Make plans for overnight trips. Maybe go somewhere with your brother for “sibling bonding”, maybe do an airbnb somewhere scenic, maybe do a touristy thing a day’s drive away and meander back. When you come back you can talk about what you did instead of the same issues, and you might even give the impression that you’re getting to know the area better as an adult.
You are not being selfish, and even if you were, that would be okay! We can’t be selfless all the time, otherwise nobody would ever be happy. What is being asked of you is all tangled up in a ball of systemic misogyny, generational friction, family baggage, and probably a bunch of other things too. If it helps you to smile and nod through the rest of your visit, do so, but nobody can make you commit to anything right now and it’s perfectly okay to say so.
posted by Mizu at 11:55 PM on December 9, 2021 [4 favorites]
I’m so glad that my parents have transitioned our relationship to one that more resembles friendship than parent and child now that I’m heading towards middle age. I can ask them about their life plans and we can talk about family money and assets without a bunch of the baggage of hierarchy. I know you have a very complicated relationship with your mom, but have you approached her as an equal, ever? What does she think about her mom’s plans for her? Does she have anything she always wished she could do? Maybe you’ll be rebuffed, but then you’d know how little your thoughts and opinions matter to these folks and you can lower your respect accordingly.
I would super highly suggest getting some space for a bit a few times over your stay. Make plans for overnight trips. Maybe go somewhere with your brother for “sibling bonding”, maybe do an airbnb somewhere scenic, maybe do a touristy thing a day’s drive away and meander back. When you come back you can talk about what you did instead of the same issues, and you might even give the impression that you’re getting to know the area better as an adult.
You are not being selfish, and even if you were, that would be okay! We can’t be selfless all the time, otherwise nobody would ever be happy. What is being asked of you is all tangled up in a ball of systemic misogyny, generational friction, family baggage, and probably a bunch of other things too. If it helps you to smile and nod through the rest of your visit, do so, but nobody can make you commit to anything right now and it’s perfectly okay to say so.
posted by Mizu at 11:55 PM on December 9, 2021 [4 favorites]
Do not set yourself on fire to keep other people warm.
Your mom is an adult and capable. Your brother is a sexist ass. Say no, be cheerful and refuse to explain why.
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 12:27 AM on December 10, 2021 [23 favorites]
Your mom is an adult and capable. Your brother is a sexist ass. Say no, be cheerful and refuse to explain why.
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 12:27 AM on December 10, 2021 [23 favorites]
Don’t do it. As the above commenter rightly said you do not have to set yourself on fire to keep others warm. Your brother can check in on her periodically even if he has a girlfriend slash is male and not expected to do much.
This is learned incompetence. Maybe you can provide some guidance/support but you don’t need to sacrifice your entire life and be miserable so adult mother can be enabled even further. That is what you’re being asked to do.
posted by cultureclash82 at 1:59 AM on December 10, 2021 [4 favorites]
This is learned incompetence. Maybe you can provide some guidance/support but you don’t need to sacrifice your entire life and be miserable so adult mother can be enabled even further. That is what you’re being asked to do.
posted by cultureclash82 at 1:59 AM on December 10, 2021 [4 favorites]
Also: ask yourself (or grandma) what happens if god forbid, something were to happen to you and/or your brother? Your mom actually needs to learn to take care of herself for her own well being and security.
Some people are forced to “grow up” in their teens…some people have to do it in their sixties!
posted by cultureclash82 at 2:17 AM on December 10, 2021 [2 favorites]
Some people are forced to “grow up” in their teens…some people have to do it in their sixties!
posted by cultureclash82 at 2:17 AM on December 10, 2021 [2 favorites]
"I know you want the best for everyone, but I can't promise to do that"
"I'm sure you want me to be happy too, and so I can't agree to that"
"I'm really happy with my life in California, and I'm not going to change it"
Pick a sentence and stick with it. For my Gran it was "I know you want me to be happy, and I'm happy as I am thank you".
It's not your job to make everyone feel happy. In fact you can't make anyone feel happy. They have to do it themselves. Sometimes letting someone sink or swim is the kindest thing you can do.
It's ok to put yourself first.
Also yes, look up parentification, and enmeshment.
posted by london explorer girl at 2:39 AM on December 10, 2021 [7 favorites]
"I'm sure you want me to be happy too, and so I can't agree to that"
"I'm really happy with my life in California, and I'm not going to change it"
Pick a sentence and stick with it. For my Gran it was "I know you want me to be happy, and I'm happy as I am thank you".
It's not your job to make everyone feel happy. In fact you can't make anyone feel happy. They have to do it themselves. Sometimes letting someone sink or swim is the kindest thing you can do.
It's ok to put yourself first.
Also yes, look up parentification, and enmeshment.
posted by london explorer girl at 2:39 AM on December 10, 2021 [7 favorites]
If things are so bad, why is your brother, who lives locally, not on top of things?
In any case, your grandmother is trying to establish the third generation of adult dependency. It is a bucket of crabs problem, you have left the bucket, but they want to drag you back to struggle in tangled emotions, suppressed growth, and erasure of your identity. Don't let it happen.
And having seen it in my former state job, do not be surprised if your brother inherits (starting a family and gotta care for the future great-grandkids, etc.) and you and your mom do not. Usually with some rationale that since your mom has YOU around, she doesn't need as much because YOU are the one supporting her... see where this could go? And hey, now you and mom can provide free childcare, too! I could be wrong, but grandma seems to be positioning things for the dependency and resentment to continue another generation. And yeah, she says she has done wrong and fostered the situation, but dragging you back sure looks like that she is being very purposeful in continuing it. You need to be strong about this and remember that your brother is in town and shoulder some of the burdens. You can even offer monetary support AT A DISTANCE to help out but DO NOT uproot yourself.
Be the hero/heroine of your story, not the victim.
posted by jadepearl at 2:50 AM on December 10, 2021 [17 favorites]
In any case, your grandmother is trying to establish the third generation of adult dependency. It is a bucket of crabs problem, you have left the bucket, but they want to drag you back to struggle in tangled emotions, suppressed growth, and erasure of your identity. Don't let it happen.
And having seen it in my former state job, do not be surprised if your brother inherits (starting a family and gotta care for the future great-grandkids, etc.) and you and your mom do not. Usually with some rationale that since your mom has YOU around, she doesn't need as much because YOU are the one supporting her... see where this could go? And hey, now you and mom can provide free childcare, too! I could be wrong, but grandma seems to be positioning things for the dependency and resentment to continue another generation. And yeah, she says she has done wrong and fostered the situation, but dragging you back sure looks like that she is being very purposeful in continuing it. You need to be strong about this and remember that your brother is in town and shoulder some of the burdens. You can even offer monetary support AT A DISTANCE to help out but DO NOT uproot yourself.
Be the hero/heroine of your story, not the victim.
posted by jadepearl at 2:50 AM on December 10, 2021 [17 favorites]
Not only is "No." a complete sentence; "Because." is a sufficient reason.
posted by flabdablet at 5:23 AM on December 10, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by flabdablet at 5:23 AM on December 10, 2021 [4 favorites]
Here is something I hope will help you: California IS your home.
I see an awful lot of reference in your question to going "back" home but I think you'll get a lot of value from taking that language out of your mouth. Sit down all by yourself and make a list, mental or go on and write it down, of all the ways you've made a life for yourself in California.
Your first step here is understanding and internalizing that where YOU have chosen to build your life is YOUR HOME. North Carolina is where you grew up. It's your mom's home, it's your grandparents' home, but it's not yours. Not anymore.
When I was 18 I moved 1000 miles away from family for college and then never went back. After a week in Chicago I realized I would never leave this city. It still took 10 years before I managed to rewire myself to stop thinking of my parents' house as "home" but boy once I did it was like someone unbuckled a boulder shackled to my ankle that I didn't even know was there.
My family also shows basically zero interest in my life in Chicago, and so it doesn't seem real to them. But that can't be my problem. Just because they don't put in any effort into seeing me as a person doesn't mean I have to erase the life I've made for myself here, in my home. This was huge for me.
So I think it will really help for you in all of these interactions if you go in secure in the knowledge that your grandma's house is not your home, and what she's asking you to do (aside from being entirely unreasonable) is to leave your home forever, leave your friends, your job, your LIFE, move 3000 miles away, and give up everything you know in the world to caretake an able bodied 60 year old.
posted by phunniemee at 5:32 AM on December 10, 2021 [25 favorites]
I see an awful lot of reference in your question to going "back" home but I think you'll get a lot of value from taking that language out of your mouth. Sit down all by yourself and make a list, mental or go on and write it down, of all the ways you've made a life for yourself in California.
Your first step here is understanding and internalizing that where YOU have chosen to build your life is YOUR HOME. North Carolina is where you grew up. It's your mom's home, it's your grandparents' home, but it's not yours. Not anymore.
When I was 18 I moved 1000 miles away from family for college and then never went back. After a week in Chicago I realized I would never leave this city. It still took 10 years before I managed to rewire myself to stop thinking of my parents' house as "home" but boy once I did it was like someone unbuckled a boulder shackled to my ankle that I didn't even know was there.
My family also shows basically zero interest in my life in Chicago, and so it doesn't seem real to them. But that can't be my problem. Just because they don't put in any effort into seeing me as a person doesn't mean I have to erase the life I've made for myself here, in my home. This was huge for me.
So I think it will really help for you in all of these interactions if you go in secure in the knowledge that your grandma's house is not your home, and what she's asking you to do (aside from being entirely unreasonable) is to leave your home forever, leave your friends, your job, your LIFE, move 3000 miles away, and give up everything you know in the world to caretake an able bodied 60 year old.
posted by phunniemee at 5:32 AM on December 10, 2021 [25 favorites]
My adult daughter was living with her long-term BF/partner - on the other side of the country, same city as her mother - her grandmother had been ill for years - but this spring took a turn for the worse.
My ex-wife convinced my daughter and BF to move in with them in May - her grandmother passed in July.
Now, I fear that my daughter will not be able to leave again - she does not work, no has a degree or diploma.
Her mother exhibits many abusive behaviours - it was such a relief when my daughter was able to leave previously. They had monthly fights before she left the first time - to-the-point where law enforcement was called to intervene. Myself, I have as minimal contact with my ex-wife, because it was the same during our entire marriage - except with me - being the "problem person". Since the marriage ended, that "bad person" status transfered to my daughter when I moved away. (I continue to provide financial assistance - and as much emotional support to my daughter as possible - I have tried to send my daughter resources such as the Redddit "raised-by-narcissists" - years and years ago)
Do not do this.
posted by rozcakj at 5:32 AM on December 10, 2021 [3 favorites]
My ex-wife convinced my daughter and BF to move in with them in May - her grandmother passed in July.
Now, I fear that my daughter will not be able to leave again - she does not work, no has a degree or diploma.
Her mother exhibits many abusive behaviours - it was such a relief when my daughter was able to leave previously. They had monthly fights before she left the first time - to-the-point where law enforcement was called to intervene. Myself, I have as minimal contact with my ex-wife, because it was the same during our entire marriage - except with me - being the "problem person". Since the marriage ended, that "bad person" status transfered to my daughter when I moved away. (I continue to provide financial assistance - and as much emotional support to my daughter as possible - I have tried to send my daughter resources such as the Redddit "raised-by-narcissists" - years and years ago)
Do not do this.
posted by rozcakj at 5:32 AM on December 10, 2021 [3 favorites]
And yeah, therapy will help. Therapy doesn't have to be a forever thing, sometimes you're just having a crisis and need to talk it through with an expert. You can use therapy like that, like you'd take an antibiotic for an infection. Don't worry about finding the best therapist or the perfect therapist, just find someone who you can talk to in the short term to get some healthy coping and response strategies in place to get you over this hump.
posted by phunniemee at 5:36 AM on December 10, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by phunniemee at 5:36 AM on December 10, 2021 [4 favorites]
There is a lot of space between moving back home to be your mother's caretaker and abandoning your mother. So the answer I'd give grandma would be "Oh course me and my brother will make sure Mom is still doing okay after you die, we love her. But that won't require that I move back home."
And then, if you want to humor your grandmother, you could offer to look into different assisted living facilities with her, or perhaps your brother (since he's actually around) might consider what living arrangements might allow him privacy while also being close to your mom (like, renting out both sides of a duplex, buying a house with a mother-in-law suite, renting apartments in the same building, etc.)
Basically, I guess I see this slightly differently than most people who've commented, in that I don't think your desire to honor all the love and care your grandmother and mother have given you (even if your mother wasn't perfect) is entirely misplaced. Sure, nobody owes their parents anything in the legal sense, but it's normal to want to do loving things to those who raised us. But I agree that you do get to set limits, and "I'm not cut out to live with my mom" and "I live in California now" are very reasonable limits. But that doesn't mean you and your brother can't start helping your grandmother plan for what will happen after she dies.
posted by coffeecat at 7:51 AM on December 10, 2021 [10 favorites]
And then, if you want to humor your grandmother, you could offer to look into different assisted living facilities with her, or perhaps your brother (since he's actually around) might consider what living arrangements might allow him privacy while also being close to your mom (like, renting out both sides of a duplex, buying a house with a mother-in-law suite, renting apartments in the same building, etc.)
Basically, I guess I see this slightly differently than most people who've commented, in that I don't think your desire to honor all the love and care your grandmother and mother have given you (even if your mother wasn't perfect) is entirely misplaced. Sure, nobody owes their parents anything in the legal sense, but it's normal to want to do loving things to those who raised us. But I agree that you do get to set limits, and "I'm not cut out to live with my mom" and "I live in California now" are very reasonable limits. But that doesn't mean you and your brother can't start helping your grandmother plan for what will happen after she dies.
posted by coffeecat at 7:51 AM on December 10, 2021 [10 favorites]
Go back home to California as soon as you can.
You said you feel like you'll lose either way, and that's sort of true. But in relationships, unlike sports, losses are not equal.
By not giving into these demands you'll lose some closeness with your mom and grandma, lose their favor. Maybe gain some feelings of guilt.
By giving into the demands you'll lose your self, your identity, essentially your life.
If they won't take no for an answer, stop answering. If the subject comes up just say "that's nice" as though you weren't listening, then change the subject or walk away. If they have expectations that you'll comply? Too bad for them, they are delusional to persist after you've said no. You just... don't comply.
Under no circumstances should you move into your grandma's house. It will annihilate you.
posted by under_petticoat_rule at 7:59 AM on December 10, 2021 [5 favorites]
You said you feel like you'll lose either way, and that's sort of true. But in relationships, unlike sports, losses are not equal.
By not giving into these demands you'll lose some closeness with your mom and grandma, lose their favor. Maybe gain some feelings of guilt.
By giving into the demands you'll lose your self, your identity, essentially your life.
If they won't take no for an answer, stop answering. If the subject comes up just say "that's nice" as though you weren't listening, then change the subject or walk away. If they have expectations that you'll comply? Too bad for them, they are delusional to persist after you've said no. You just... don't comply.
Under no circumstances should you move into your grandma's house. It will annihilate you.
posted by under_petticoat_rule at 7:59 AM on December 10, 2021 [5 favorites]
Two mantras that many people would strongly disagree with but have helped me in the past are: (1) it is possible to love and care about someone deeply without respecting what they say or the things they believe and (2) sometimes lying can be the kindest option. Take care of yourself. Try not to hurt people when you don't have to. (Sometimes you do have to in order not to hurt yourself more.)
I'm not in your shoes. But, I'm of a similar age and do have a really difficult parent who probably won't be able to take care of themself soon and who lives in a place I would never want to live and is entirely incompatible with my career and personal life. I'm pretty sure I'll be able to afford to pay for part time professional caregivers when the time comes, and I consider that a reasonable compromise that honors our relationship and causes the least harm to everyone.
As a stranger on the internet, I suspect that if you move back you will regret it for the rest of you life and be so angry that your presence won't actually help anyone. Sympathy and best wishes.
posted by eotvos at 8:57 AM on December 10, 2021 [6 favorites]
I'm not in your shoes. But, I'm of a similar age and do have a really difficult parent who probably won't be able to take care of themself soon and who lives in a place I would never want to live and is entirely incompatible with my career and personal life. I'm pretty sure I'll be able to afford to pay for part time professional caregivers when the time comes, and I consider that a reasonable compromise that honors our relationship and causes the least harm to everyone.
As a stranger on the internet, I suspect that if you move back you will regret it for the rest of you life and be so angry that your presence won't actually help anyone. Sympathy and best wishes.
posted by eotvos at 8:57 AM on December 10, 2021 [6 favorites]
My mother and maternal grandmother had similar expectations of me, and for a long while I had those expectations of myself. The guilt that I felt about not wanting to do this was... is still a thing I deal with. I eventually became estranged from my entire family of origin (for different reasons because my family is actually chock full of Bad People) but three things I really regret are:
- how much time and energy I wasted feeling guilty for wanting to live my own life and not the life they wanted me to live.
- how much time and energy I wasted by spending time with people who don't listen to or respect me.
- how much time and energy I wasted feeling angry or sad that no one cared about the fact that I had a WHOLE ASS ENTIRE LIFE somewhere else, because it didn't matter.
I'm not suggesting that you don't have a relationship with your family if you want to, but I would certainly support your returning early to California because you're tired of being hectored over this. And that perhaps with therapy and physical distance you can find a way to define the relationship that you want and make it the relationship that you have in the life that you are making and living in.
posted by sm1tten at 9:19 AM on December 10, 2021 [5 favorites]
- how much time and energy I wasted feeling guilty for wanting to live my own life and not the life they wanted me to live.
- how much time and energy I wasted by spending time with people who don't listen to or respect me.
- how much time and energy I wasted feeling angry or sad that no one cared about the fact that I had a WHOLE ASS ENTIRE LIFE somewhere else, because it didn't matter.
I'm not suggesting that you don't have a relationship with your family if you want to, but I would certainly support your returning early to California because you're tired of being hectored over this. And that perhaps with therapy and physical distance you can find a way to define the relationship that you want and make it the relationship that you have in the life that you are making and living in.
posted by sm1tten at 9:19 AM on December 10, 2021 [5 favorites]
You hold all the cards here. I think message to your grandma is "grams, I love you dearly, but I'm not moving back, and if you can't drop it, I'm going home to California for the holidays."
posted by sid at 9:35 AM on December 10, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by sid at 9:35 AM on December 10, 2021 [1 favorite]
On the other hand, I don't think it's fair that it's now on me to have to bear the burden of dropping my life in California (which NO ONE in the family, including my Grandma, has shown much interest in) like it never happened, and moving back to NC. No one considers what I want, what would make me happy.
I had a mother who was like this with my sister. My mother was living with a terminal, but managed and not impeding her, disease for nearly a decade. And she would constantly harp on my sister that because she was "sick" she needed my sister closer than the five miles away that my sister currently lived (in her own house, which she owned) in order to... just kind of be there in case my mother needed her. I very much second the suggestion for the Reddit raised-by-narcissists group suggested by rozcakj. In families where there is a person like this, there are often other people who subtly or not so subtly are enlisted to kind of lobby for them and it's deeply aggravating. When my mother finally did get actually sick, my sister moved closer for a few weeks until she went into hospice. And the whole time a group of my mother's friends were harping on us that we weren't doing enough, why was she going into hospice (her choice, not ours) and why weren't we doing X, Y or Z? It's pernicious and is part of the entire system and it's only when you see a dozen other people who are getting manipulated (or attempted manipulated) the same way that you can see it as a lousy pattern.
I was the one who left and was thus "off the hook" for moving in next door to mom (she had a two-family house which was where she wanted to put my sister) but I had to manage both my mom's constant WHY WON'T YOUR SISTER MOVE and my sister's MOM KEEPS HASSLING ME TO MOVE feelings. What was helpful for me was realizing that, even though I sided with my sister, everyone was a grownup and could work better on managing their feelings. Like it's fine for your mom and grandma to want what they want, kind of, but it's equally fine for those feelings to not create an expectation or a responsibility in you. And yes my sister and i were both "single" (i.e. in relationships but not married, no kids) and this made everyone look at us as "Well this is your job now" and honestly, fuck them. I loved my mom but she was very often mean and hectoring and I moved to get away from her and nothing about her older age made me feel like it was my job to move back.
You do you. I am sorry this is hard. You have a home which you made despite overcoming some obstacles. You don't need to give it up to serve someone who wasn't good to you. If this were me I'd be frank with grandma "Your jokes aren't funny. I am not doing this. If you menace me I will leave early" but I think there are a lot of ways to play this but no one can make you move and keep telling yourself that.
posted by jessamyn at 9:43 AM on December 10, 2021 [9 favorites]
I had a mother who was like this with my sister. My mother was living with a terminal, but managed and not impeding her, disease for nearly a decade. And she would constantly harp on my sister that because she was "sick" she needed my sister closer than the five miles away that my sister currently lived (in her own house, which she owned) in order to... just kind of be there in case my mother needed her. I very much second the suggestion for the Reddit raised-by-narcissists group suggested by rozcakj. In families where there is a person like this, there are often other people who subtly or not so subtly are enlisted to kind of lobby for them and it's deeply aggravating. When my mother finally did get actually sick, my sister moved closer for a few weeks until she went into hospice. And the whole time a group of my mother's friends were harping on us that we weren't doing enough, why was she going into hospice (her choice, not ours) and why weren't we doing X, Y or Z? It's pernicious and is part of the entire system and it's only when you see a dozen other people who are getting manipulated (or attempted manipulated) the same way that you can see it as a lousy pattern.
I was the one who left and was thus "off the hook" for moving in next door to mom (she had a two-family house which was where she wanted to put my sister) but I had to manage both my mom's constant WHY WON'T YOUR SISTER MOVE and my sister's MOM KEEPS HASSLING ME TO MOVE feelings. What was helpful for me was realizing that, even though I sided with my sister, everyone was a grownup and could work better on managing their feelings. Like it's fine for your mom and grandma to want what they want, kind of, but it's equally fine for those feelings to not create an expectation or a responsibility in you. And yes my sister and i were both "single" (i.e. in relationships but not married, no kids) and this made everyone look at us as "Well this is your job now" and honestly, fuck them. I loved my mom but she was very often mean and hectoring and I moved to get away from her and nothing about her older age made me feel like it was my job to move back.
You do you. I am sorry this is hard. You have a home which you made despite overcoming some obstacles. You don't need to give it up to serve someone who wasn't good to you. If this were me I'd be frank with grandma "Your jokes aren't funny. I am not doing this. If you menace me I will leave early" but I think there are a lot of ways to play this but no one can make you move and keep telling yourself that.
posted by jessamyn at 9:43 AM on December 10, 2021 [9 favorites]
Just as one practical idea, maybe you could try to find a senior apartment building for your mom to live in. Where I live, there are apartments for people 55+ associated with assisted living facilities. They don’t actually involve extra care, but they put residents into a supportive community where they can move into care as they age. If she’s around a lot of retirees with aging on the mind, maybe your mom will either learn from her peers how to be more independent or be able to find help from a variety of acquaintances. It sounds like you might have to be careful about her saying she requires more advanced care earlier than she actually does, though, since it would be easily available.
posted by Comet Bug at 10:56 AM on December 10, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by Comet Bug at 10:56 AM on December 10, 2021 [1 favorite]
Does Grandma have a house? If your Mom inherits a house, is she competent to pay taxes, maintain it, not get a home equity loan and blow it on boyfriends, non-viable small businesses, gambling, drugs, booze, a million other options? How much effort are you willing to invest? One option is for Grandma to put her assets in trust, with you or a competent adult as trustee to make sure the real estate taxes get paid and the house is adequately maintained. Your Mom works, right? and should be eligible for Social Security at some point.
Probably the best option for your Mom is a condo someplace where she can use public transportation for work, shopping, and some social life. It doesn't sound like your Mom is deeply tied to the area. A condo could be in Mom's current location or someplace new, possibly closer to you, but not too close. I had a difficult Mom and it would have been convenient to be less than 1,000 miles away, but not closer than an hour's drive.
I'd be honest with your Grandma and with your Mom, if she's capable, about just how much involvement you're willing to to take on, and your suggestions. I'd encourage Grandma to make very realistic plans for her estate, with a lawyer.
And read this article What Shamu Taught Me About a Happy Marriage and this book Stop Walking on Eggshells: Taking Your Life Back When Someone You Care About Has Borderline Personality Disorder.
posted by theora55 at 11:23 AM on December 10, 2021 [2 favorites]
Probably the best option for your Mom is a condo someplace where she can use public transportation for work, shopping, and some social life. It doesn't sound like your Mom is deeply tied to the area. A condo could be in Mom's current location or someplace new, possibly closer to you, but not too close. I had a difficult Mom and it would have been convenient to be less than 1,000 miles away, but not closer than an hour's drive.
I'd be honest with your Grandma and with your Mom, if she's capable, about just how much involvement you're willing to to take on, and your suggestions. I'd encourage Grandma to make very realistic plans for her estate, with a lawyer.
And read this article What Shamu Taught Me About a Happy Marriage and this book Stop Walking on Eggshells: Taking Your Life Back When Someone You Care About Has Borderline Personality Disorder.
posted by theora55 at 11:23 AM on December 10, 2021 [2 favorites]
It sounds like your Mom might do great in a 55+ community with a full meal plan. After your grandmother dies, advise your mom to sell the house and move into a community. Set up her bank account to autopay and she won't even need to pay bills. She never has to grow up, you don't have to move in with her, and she might even make some friends.
Some days I think if I could afford one, I'd move in now (and I'm still in my mid-50s).
posted by clone boulevard at 2:41 PM on December 10, 2021 [3 favorites]
Some days I think if I could afford one, I'd move in now (and I'm still in my mid-50s).
posted by clone boulevard at 2:41 PM on December 10, 2021 [3 favorites]
I really agree with coffeecat’s input above. Loving and wanting to care for a 93 year old (!) woman who raised you is a normal impulse. I think that, in general, we owe care and attention to the very elderly in much the same way we do to children. I know you say your grandmother is fine and living independently but cognitive ability starts to decline around age 60-65; she is much older than that. I would be worried about smaller things happening that could balloon into huge problems, like the oven being left on or doors being left unlocked.
I also don’t agree that your mom will eventually figure things out because she’ll “have to.” I think that if she had this kind of personality, she’d already be a more independent person. It’s also possible that your grandparents eventually die and your mom slides further into under-employment and poverty and situational-based depression from losing two of her only social connections which aggravate her existing dependency issues.
I moved 3600km after high school to go to university, and then spent the next seven years criss-crossing Canada for grad school and jobs.
My husband and I moved home three years ago after my father had a bad stroke and his dad was dying of cancer. Our families are from the same city, but we live in a different one 2.5 hours away, which is an arrangement that helps to give us space. We visit twice a month and help with grocery shopping, cleaning, using their electronics, and fixing things. If you are interested in helping out your family, maybe there’s an in-between option where you don’t feel obligated to live in their shared home?
However, I was raised with a very strong sense of place and values that are pretty specific to where I’m from; I love my home and always have. I think I would always have been sad if I’d never gone back, as much as I love adventure. I can’t really get a read on how you really feel about your family or NC aside from this one situation that is pretty laden with unfair guilt.
Don’t move back if you don’t want to and it doesn’t work for your life. Don’t live a life of resentment and anger. But you can still assist with getting them supports, like home care or selling the house and moving to a building that provides cooking, cleaning, etc. Make your brother help you with this to introduce them to people they can rely on other than you. Maybe emphasizing that you love them and reassuring them you will help will ease some of their insistence that you move back and live in the downstairs bedroom. Good luck!
posted by oywiththepoodles at 3:07 PM on December 10, 2021 [2 favorites]
I also don’t agree that your mom will eventually figure things out because she’ll “have to.” I think that if she had this kind of personality, she’d already be a more independent person. It’s also possible that your grandparents eventually die and your mom slides further into under-employment and poverty and situational-based depression from losing two of her only social connections which aggravate her existing dependency issues.
I moved 3600km after high school to go to university, and then spent the next seven years criss-crossing Canada for grad school and jobs.
My husband and I moved home three years ago after my father had a bad stroke and his dad was dying of cancer. Our families are from the same city, but we live in a different one 2.5 hours away, which is an arrangement that helps to give us space. We visit twice a month and help with grocery shopping, cleaning, using their electronics, and fixing things. If you are interested in helping out your family, maybe there’s an in-between option where you don’t feel obligated to live in their shared home?
However, I was raised with a very strong sense of place and values that are pretty specific to where I’m from; I love my home and always have. I think I would always have been sad if I’d never gone back, as much as I love adventure. I can’t really get a read on how you really feel about your family or NC aside from this one situation that is pretty laden with unfair guilt.
Don’t move back if you don’t want to and it doesn’t work for your life. Don’t live a life of resentment and anger. But you can still assist with getting them supports, like home care or selling the house and moving to a building that provides cooking, cleaning, etc. Make your brother help you with this to introduce them to people they can rely on other than you. Maybe emphasizing that you love them and reassuring them you will help will ease some of their insistence that you move back and live in the downstairs bedroom. Good luck!
posted by oywiththepoodles at 3:07 PM on December 10, 2021 [2 favorites]
"I'm not going to do that, Grandma."
She's already worrying. Another adult's worries are not your worries. This isn't your problem, and you don't need to share it.
posted by some little punk in a rocket at 4:24 PM on December 10, 2021 [3 favorites]
She's already worrying. Another adult's worries are not your worries. This isn't your problem, and you don't need to share it.
posted by some little punk in a rocket at 4:24 PM on December 10, 2021 [3 favorites]
They just tell me they want me to come home. It feels like a mandate and not an option.
As we say in Al-Anon, feelings are not facts. I feel like I am entitled to a million dollars from your grandmother, but I bet that's not in the cards.
You are in charge of your own life. It is only a mandate if you allow your grandmother to decide for you. Why would you do that? You are the only person who the planet who actually knows what you need. You know what you need, and that is going back home to California after the holidays (or tomorrow, if this shit is driving you crazy).
Captain Awkward has some good scripts for family drama. Simply substitute grandparent in her advice and you will be good to go. Here is advice to a reader whose parents want her to parent her brother. Here is advice to a reader whose sister is trying to take over her wedding. Here's one about a bossy mom trying to bully her daughter (who cannot safely have children) into producing children. Here's advice to a woman whose family is trying to bully her into something else.
What all of the advice has in common is suggesting that you establish the boundary necessary to your good health and stick to it. There are many scripts above about how to communicate that you will not be moving back to live with your mom. Also, WTF is up with your grandmother? Like, is your mother unable to talk? If your mom wants you to move in with her, she can ask you directly, and then you can tell her NO! directly if need be. In the meantime, tell grandma that your mother is an adult, y'all will work it out when the time comes, and she needs to stop pestering you if she ever wants you to visit again. Don't put up with this shit. It is manipulative, toxic, and intolerable.
The next two times she brings up the topic, say your script. Every time after that, as soon as she brings it up again, don't say a word. Just leave the house (apartment, whatever), even if it is just to walk around the block and come home again. I used that technique to teach my 80+ dry-drunk dad to stop making racist comments and trash talking my sisters. It took more than one visit, but if he could learn your grandmother can learn. I get that your grandmother may love you, but it's like she wants you to sacrifice your life after she has already sacrificed her own.
Don't go there, I am begging you. Breaking free of this nonsense will not be easy but it will be life-affirming and worthwhile. Good luck!
posted by Bella Donna at 11:20 AM on December 12, 2021 [3 favorites]
As we say in Al-Anon, feelings are not facts. I feel like I am entitled to a million dollars from your grandmother, but I bet that's not in the cards.
You are in charge of your own life. It is only a mandate if you allow your grandmother to decide for you. Why would you do that? You are the only person who the planet who actually knows what you need. You know what you need, and that is going back home to California after the holidays (or tomorrow, if this shit is driving you crazy).
Captain Awkward has some good scripts for family drama. Simply substitute grandparent in her advice and you will be good to go. Here is advice to a reader whose parents want her to parent her brother. Here is advice to a reader whose sister is trying to take over her wedding. Here's one about a bossy mom trying to bully her daughter (who cannot safely have children) into producing children. Here's advice to a woman whose family is trying to bully her into something else.
What all of the advice has in common is suggesting that you establish the boundary necessary to your good health and stick to it. There are many scripts above about how to communicate that you will not be moving back to live with your mom. Also, WTF is up with your grandmother? Like, is your mother unable to talk? If your mom wants you to move in with her, she can ask you directly, and then you can tell her NO! directly if need be. In the meantime, tell grandma that your mother is an adult, y'all will work it out when the time comes, and she needs to stop pestering you if she ever wants you to visit again. Don't put up with this shit. It is manipulative, toxic, and intolerable.
The next two times she brings up the topic, say your script. Every time after that, as soon as she brings it up again, don't say a word. Just leave the house (apartment, whatever), even if it is just to walk around the block and come home again. I used that technique to teach my 80+ dry-drunk dad to stop making racist comments and trash talking my sisters. It took more than one visit, but if he could learn your grandmother can learn. I get that your grandmother may love you, but it's like she wants you to sacrifice your life after she has already sacrificed her own.
Don't go there, I am begging you. Breaking free of this nonsense will not be easy but it will be life-affirming and worthwhile. Good luck!
posted by Bella Donna at 11:20 AM on December 12, 2021 [3 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
Just because these people are asking you to make them feel better by making a bunch of premature promises and commitments does not mean you are responsible for their feelings if you refuse to do so. Your mother is an adult who is responsible for herself, and there's no reason to infantilize her by deciding in advance how she will or won't cope with your grandmother's death.
Besides, your life may be completely different when your grandmother dies, and whatever you think you'll want to do then you can hardly predict or plan for now. You may be partnered, or have children or other large commitments to take care of, or your mother may get therapy and become more independent and want to live alone, or she may fall in love with someone and move in with them, or, or, or.
For now the right answer is a) therapy for you so you don't feel so pressured by their expression of their wishes and feelings and b) warmly and lovingly refusing to engage this unnecessary discussion for now.
posted by shadygrove at 7:40 PM on December 9, 2021 [64 favorites]