Do I Have to Pay This Ticket? [LA County Filter]
November 29, 2021 9:55 AM Subscribe
I got a camera ticket driving through an intersection in unincorporated Los Angeles County last week. Multiple people have told me that I don't have to pay this ticket and it won't impact my driving record. Is this true?
What happened: A red left arrow is not lit, making the intersection appear to be a regular, uncontrolled turn. As I turned left, the camera flashed. (I came back around to assess what rule I had broken, just as another person made the same mistake and stopped in the intersection looking totally confused.) I got a bunch of pictures of the offending light anticipating fighting it in traffic court.
What people have told me: Essentially, they can't verify that I was the driver and so the ticket is not enforceable, and I can ignore it. Regardless, that whether or not I pay it, it won't amount to points on my license, won't impact my insurance, etc. That basically this ticket is on the honor system and the only people who pay are rubes.
My concern: I ran a red light. If the only way I can keep this off my record is to fight it in traffic court, I'd like to take the opportunity. But if ignoring it has a greater chance of it going away than if I actually go to court, I guess I would do that.
Googling leads me to a lot of Quora type stuff, or delightful ax grinding websites full of typos, which does not lend confidence.
Anyone have insight here? Thanks!
What happened: A red left arrow is not lit, making the intersection appear to be a regular, uncontrolled turn. As I turned left, the camera flashed. (I came back around to assess what rule I had broken, just as another person made the same mistake and stopped in the intersection looking totally confused.) I got a bunch of pictures of the offending light anticipating fighting it in traffic court.
What people have told me: Essentially, they can't verify that I was the driver and so the ticket is not enforceable, and I can ignore it. Regardless, that whether or not I pay it, it won't amount to points on my license, won't impact my insurance, etc. That basically this ticket is on the honor system and the only people who pay are rubes.
My concern: I ran a red light. If the only way I can keep this off my record is to fight it in traffic court, I'd like to take the opportunity. But if ignoring it has a greater chance of it going away than if I actually go to court, I guess I would do that.
Googling leads me to a lot of Quora type stuff, or delightful ax grinding websites full of typos, which does not lend confidence.
Anyone have insight here? Thanks!
Regardless, that whether or not I pay it, it won't amount to points on my license, won't impact my insurance, etc. That basically this ticket is on the honor system and the only people who pay are rubes.
Similar thing happened to me, and I thought the same thing. And I was partially right. No points, no impact on insurance. What I didn't anticipate was that the town would send the bill to collections, where it sat on my credit report for 7 years.
posted by JoeZydeco at 10:04 AM on November 29, 2021 [15 favorites]
Similar thing happened to me, and I thought the same thing. And I was partially right. No points, no impact on insurance. What I didn't anticipate was that the town would send the bill to collections, where it sat on my credit report for 7 years.
posted by JoeZydeco at 10:04 AM on November 29, 2021 [15 favorites]
Also not sure how it works in LA, but in NYC camera tickets are akin to parking tickets. If you don't pay, you may have fees when you renew your car registration.
posted by Pineapplicious at 10:06 AM on November 29, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by Pineapplicious at 10:06 AM on November 29, 2021 [1 favorite]
I live in California. I had an unpaid parking ticket from a college, which had to be paid before I could renew my car registration.
posted by meowzilla at 10:21 AM on November 29, 2021
posted by meowzilla at 10:21 AM on November 29, 2021
Your friends have passed along a lot of misconceptions. Like the posters above have said, once the ticket is written, it's real and it has to be paid, or it will sit in collections and wait for unsuspecting you in your credit report and driving registration.
At least in NY, these tickets are no points on the license, only fines. Since the state can't prove who was driving, they give up that specificity in order to lay the fine on you, the registered owner. There's no point fighting unless you can prove that the car was not under your ownership -- ie that it had been sold (you would need receipts) or stolen (you would need a police report) at the time the red light was crossed. Otherwise the photo evidence is considered incontrovertible.
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 12:55 PM on November 29, 2021
At least in NY, these tickets are no points on the license, only fines. Since the state can't prove who was driving, they give up that specificity in order to lay the fine on you, the registered owner. There's no point fighting unless you can prove that the car was not under your ownership -- ie that it had been sold (you would need receipts) or stolen (you would need a police report) at the time the red light was crossed. Otherwise the photo evidence is considered incontrovertible.
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 12:55 PM on November 29, 2021
Is your car registered in California? If not, you may be able to get away with not paying it - this is an issue in DC, where out of state drivers rack up significant camera fines and leave them unpaid because there are no consequences to them. I'd recommend fighting in traffic court if for no other reason than to potentially get the light programming fixed, though.
posted by mosst at 1:01 PM on November 29, 2021
posted by mosst at 1:01 PM on November 29, 2021
Best answer: I live in one of the (rare, in my experience) California jurisdictions which depend on these robot police for revenue generation. I haven't been caught yet but my wife's been, twice, for not coming to a complete stop when turning right on red. It's a regular moving violation, DO NOT disregard it. At least here in Sacramento, the cameras capture both the license plate and views of the driver and passenger, through the windshield. They even get video, with a link on the ticket so you can watch it yourself. The ($490!) ticket also includes the photos of the driver and plate. You can contest it, which is what I'd be doing for sure in your case, given your photos of the defective red arrow. Show it to the judge; in all probability s/he'll dismiss your ticket.
posted by Rash at 1:19 PM on November 29, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by Rash at 1:19 PM on November 29, 2021 [4 favorites]
Best answer: You should talk to a traffic lawyer in LA County. Many lawyers will do a free first consult over the phone on something like this. Call around, and talk to friends/relatives, until you find a lawyer who'll talk you through your options, one of which will almost certainly be paying the lawyer to say a few relevant phrases to the DA or judge, but a good lawyer will also tell you if it's something you can handle yourself. Don't ignore something like this when you can get a good answer from a legal professional with a quick, free first consult call.
posted by mediareport at 1:35 PM on November 29, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by mediareport at 1:35 PM on November 29, 2021 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Was the ticket was issued by L.A. Superior Court? If so, by my understanding, it's legally unenforceable at this point. That means they can't make you pay, it can't go on your credit report, and it won't be associated with your CA DMV record.
L.A. courts have stopped enforcement for a number of reasons, including the fact that the majority of tickets are issued to drivers like you, people who had no intention of running a red, and did not run the red in a dangerous manner. It's common to encounter a malfunctioning light (that's what happened to you, it sounds like), for the camera/light to get out of sequence, or for the camera to flash at incomplete stops before a right turn on red (which rarely results in an accident, and isn't supposed to trigger a ticket).
Of course, if the ticket was issued by an entity other than L.A. Superior Court, you need to pay it. Also, if you have already responded to the ticket in any way, then you will now need to pay it. Otherwise, if you do nothing, this ticket is commonly understood to be on the honor system within LASC's jurisdiction. I don't know anyone who's gotten one of these in the past few years and faced consequences beyond some court letters. If you're still worried (and I think it's natural to be, since it's not like you're going to find a court website admitting that people don't have to pay red-light tickets), or if you want to take this to court for another reason (calling attention to signal malfunctions at this intersection?), I would consult a lawyer who deals with red light issues.
posted by desert outpost at 1:36 PM on November 29, 2021 [4 favorites]
L.A. courts have stopped enforcement for a number of reasons, including the fact that the majority of tickets are issued to drivers like you, people who had no intention of running a red, and did not run the red in a dangerous manner. It's common to encounter a malfunctioning light (that's what happened to you, it sounds like), for the camera/light to get out of sequence, or for the camera to flash at incomplete stops before a right turn on red (which rarely results in an accident, and isn't supposed to trigger a ticket).
Of course, if the ticket was issued by an entity other than L.A. Superior Court, you need to pay it. Also, if you have already responded to the ticket in any way, then you will now need to pay it. Otherwise, if you do nothing, this ticket is commonly understood to be on the honor system within LASC's jurisdiction. I don't know anyone who's gotten one of these in the past few years and faced consequences beyond some court letters. If you're still worried (and I think it's natural to be, since it's not like you're going to find a court website admitting that people don't have to pay red-light tickets), or if you want to take this to court for another reason (calling attention to signal malfunctions at this intersection?), I would consult a lawyer who deals with red light issues.
posted by desert outpost at 1:36 PM on November 29, 2021 [4 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by goatdog at 10:02 AM on November 29, 2021