Does eBay keep winning bids secret?

April 5, 2006 5:09 PM

Outbid on eBay in the last 20 seconds. Does eBay hold winning bids in secret?

I held the highest bid on an eBay item until the last 20 seconds of the auction. My "willing to pay" amount easily covered the current high bid by several hundred dollars. Yet, at the 20-second mark, I get outbid by just enough to lose. When I tried to re-enter a higher bid, with at least 10 seconds to go, I was told the auction had ended. (I had at least 10 seconds at the 2nd bid confirm screen).

Did someone really just enter an amount possibly $500+ above the current price in the last 20 seconds of the auction, or did eBay have this person's higher bid already recorded, and just sprung it on me at the last moment?

Is there any reason why my new bid wasn't accepted with 10 seconds remaining? Would I have any recourse?

posted by odinsdream to computers & internet (60 comments total)

You're the victim of a sniper. They are ruining ebay in my opinion.
posted by CunningLinguist at 5:12 PM on April 5, 2006

It's likely they just had a higher maximum bid than you, though I'm not entirely sure how that system works.
posted by borkingchikapa at 5:12 PM on April 5, 2006

There's one of two possibilites:

First, and most likely, yes, someone waited until the last twenty seconds to bid well above the current bid price.

Second, there are programs and services out there that will automate this procedure, so people can set their bid price in advance, and have a computer automatically bid at the end of the auction for them.

People know that you usually don't bid your actual willingness to pay, and that if they bid early, you'll just go back and outbid them again. So they wait, and bid when it's too late for you to rebid.

You have two options here:

First, bid your actual willingness to pay. It's always frustrating to see someone else win by $.25 more than your final bid, but if you really bid the most you're willing to pay, it goes down a lot easier. Plus, oftentimes you'll withstand the sniper attack. You'll just know going in that what you pay for your item will be determined in the last twenty seconds.

Second, be a sniper yourself. Don't bid on anything you like, just put it in your watched items list, and set your alarm. Go in and constantly refresh the page until it looks like you've got twenty seconds left. Have your price ready to be pasted in, and click fast.
posted by kingjoeshmoe at 5:19 PM on April 5, 2006

I understand, borkingchikapa, because I had a higher maximum bid than everyone else until the last 20 seconds. What I'm interested in is the fact that it happened so quickly to the end.

This means someone saw the price, and with 20 seconds to go, entered a price at least $700 above the current price. It seems like an awfully strange thing to do.
posted by odinsdream at 5:20 PM on April 5, 2006

I use a service called bidnip.com for all my ebay shopping. I look for things I want to buy when I'm free, set the max price I want to pay for it and then just get back to work. Its great because:

a) You dont have to remember what time the damned auction ends.

b) You dont inflate the bid price before you actually bid so you end up saving a lot of money. Try it next time.
posted by special-k at 5:21 PM on April 5, 2006

You're the victim of a sniper. They are ruining ebay in my opinion.

In my opinion, sniping is part of the game. (And that wikipedia article you linked to is full of sour grapes. "Auction sniping is rarely done without software assistance." Care to back that up with data, O Mighty Wikipedia?) Ruining eBay? Sniping has been going on since Day One. eBay's no closer to ruination than it was seven or eight years ago.

I am an auction sniper. I watch many auctions at a time. If there's something I particularly want, I'll rarely bid early. I'll always bid in the last minute. When I bid, I always know what the item in question generally sells for, and I'll bid whatever I think I need to bid to win it. If the item is selling for hundreds of dollars less than normal, I'm still going to bid what I think it'll take to win it, because I will not have the time to make a second bid. That's the risk of sniping: you may not get a chance to bid again if you guess wrong about the current high-bidder (or other snipers). I have never used any sort of auction software to track auctions or to do my bidding. I do it all by hand.
posted by jdroth at 5:21 PM on April 5, 2006

Sniping software. Nobody can click that fast.
posted by fixedgear at 5:21 PM on April 5, 2006

Did someone really just enter an amount possibly $500+ above the current price in the last 20 seconds of the auction

Yes

or did eBay have this person's higher bid already recorded, and just sprung it on me at the last moment?

No, either someone physically entered it (I do that all the time) or had a third-party (not eBay) do it for them.

I don't think sniping is ruining eBay, it's just not the bargain paradise it used to be. Your maximum bid is your maximum bid, if you use it that way you're rarely disappointed.
posted by deadfather at 5:22 PM on April 5, 2006

Oh and set your bid to +0.02 over the next higher amount. For example, if bids increments are in $5 amounts and you want to pay a max of $20 for an item, just set the snipe to $20.02 or $20.04 and you can beat out other not-so-savvy snipers/ last minute watchers.
posted by special-k at 5:24 PM on April 5, 2006

This sniping FAQ is pretty good at covering the basics. If you want more info, don't neglect to follow the links at the end of the FAQ which will lead you to other strategies and links to free and paid sniping software you can use for yourself.
posted by mdevore at 5:24 PM on April 5, 2006

Sniping software. Nobody can click that fast.


They don't need to. Say the price is $50 with 5 minutes left. La de da. I'll sign in. I'll slooooowly enter in my maximum bid of $700. Then, with 20 seconds left--no need to refresh, but if I like I can do it in another tab/window--I hit submit. Final price, $501.50, just fifty cents above the next highest bidder.
posted by deadfather at 5:25 PM on April 5, 2006

I don't buy much on ebay, but when I do buy something, this 'sniping' is definitely the way I go about it. The seller might not end up making as much money off of me as they would have otherwise, but helping them do that is not my priority.
posted by bingo at 5:25 PM on April 5, 2006

Well, that clears that up. What about the auction closing me out with 10 seconds to go?
posted by odinsdream at 5:26 PM on April 5, 2006

They are ruining ebay in my opinion.

Well, if everybody gives everybody else a "fair" chance, then the price just goes up and up, and the final bid is much higher than it would otherwise be, even if the same guy gets it.

Assuming everyone has an equal chance at being the last bidder, this just adds a lottery at the end of the auction and keeps the prices lower.

The way its done is to have your final bid window open five minutes in advance and hit "confirm" 10 or 20 secs before the auction closes.

There have been times when I knew I was going to get that thing by outbidding everybody no matter what. If I started running it up hours in advance I would have just paid more.

Now, those guys who use automated software to do this are not gentlemen.
posted by StickyCarpet at 5:27 PM on April 5, 2006

What about the auction closing me out with 10 seconds to go?

That's a legitimate beef, but unless an error message like "Sorry, we don't want your bid," it'd be rather difficult to prove that's eBay's fault. It's in their best interest to accept that bid.
posted by deadfather at 5:28 PM on April 5, 2006

(Not to derail, but anyone else finding the fast pace of this thread eerily similar to the final minutes of an eBay auction?)
posted by deadfather at 5:31 PM on April 5, 2006

Anyone who doesn't snipe for an item they really want on eBay is an idiot IMO. I use auctionsniper.com...
posted by unSane at 5:32 PM on April 5, 2006

The last eBay auction I won, some guy in France outbid me with about 50 seconds left on the clock. Fortunately, I was watching and refreshing, so I managed to outbid him at the last possible moment. Suck it, guy from France. So yeah, count me among those who say last-minute bidding is part of the game, but automating the process is just plain cheating.
posted by Faint of Butt at 5:32 PM on April 5, 2006

What about the auction closing me out with 10 seconds to go?

This just sounds like bad luck. I've never been closed out of a bid on eBay. I have run out of time, though, even when I thought I had a couple seconds left, because it takes time for the pages to load, time for the data to be transmitted between servers, time for me to type.

Here's what I do: I have one tab for bidding, and one tab for emergency. I open the emergency tab to the bidding screen, ready to be used if I need it. I refresh with my main tab until I get to about forty seconds, then I enter my snipe bid. Once it's submitted, there are usually about twenty seconds left. I refresh refresh refresh. If another bid comes in, it's off to the emergency tab (if I'm willing to spend more), and a quick up of the ante. If somebody beats me in the last ten seconds, though, I'm pretty much screwed.

Also note that you can get locked out (sort of) if some sort of sniping war occurs between two or more parties. You think you're submitting a good bid, but the sniping war sends the prices WAY up, and suddenly your bid isn't high enough and eBay gives you an error message.
posted by jdroth at 5:32 PM on April 5, 2006

I don't use sniping software, but I feel that I get the best deal when I stalk an auction I'm really interested in, wait until 15-20 seconds are left and then place my maximum bid. Maybe I'm ruining eBay, maybe I'm not. As for why your bid didn't take with 10 seconds left, it's because it takes a few seconds for eBay to process the bid. Don't be paranoid, a "sniper" can't end an auction early or stop you from bidding. When there's so little time left sometimes you won't make it, thanks to your internet connection, eBay traffic or whatever. What do you mean by recourse...send eBay a nasty email saying that, with only ten seconds left, an auction timed out on you? Come on.
posted by apple scruff at 5:32 PM on April 5, 2006

If I didn't use Auction Sentry to place my eBay bids for me, I doubt I'd ever have the high bid in an auction. As it is, I "win" only about a third of the time.

odinsdream, you were wondering about the coincidence of another member's outbidding you by just a little bit. I can see why that would seem not-quite-right, but I believe it is a coincidence. I have won a couple of auctions (out of about 300 total) by only a few cents, because my bids end in .33 or .88, and never .00 or .50 or .25. And I have been outbid by very little at least 5 times, I reckon.

Whoever beat you out of that item, odinsdream... he or she asked, "How high am I willing to go, a number beyond which I would absolutely consider to be too high?" You and that person had very similar bids because you both valued the item at almost the same amount. If you really want something, your bid should be based on the item, not on what someone else has bid for it, nor on what it has sold for in earlier auctions.

On the other hand, if you want a good deal on things that are fairly easy to come by, bid conservatively and sometimes you'll get lucky. It's only the hard-to-find stuff that's worth going all out for.
posted by wryly at 5:37 PM on April 5, 2006

I'm a sniper.

My computer's clock is synced to eBay's clock. I load the item page, enter a bid, and click through to the CONFIRM page. Then I wait...for the hour/minute/second when the auction is scheduled to close. (Sometimes I keep a second window open to refresh the item's page, to watch for competing bids.) I consistently time my bids inside the last ten seconds — when I'm feeling particularly daring, I aim for the last two or three. I've never missed, and I rarely lose.

Don't like snipers? Then bid as much as you're willing to pay. People who whine that snipers ruin eBay aren't using eBay correctly. If I snipe your bid with $55 and you were willing to pay $60, guess what: That's your mistake. If you had bid $60, I wouldn't have won, no matter when my bid was placed.

The truth is, these whiners are only willing to pay $60 if someone else is willing to pay $55. So you're relying on my actions to determine how you'll behave, and then you're complaining that I don't act properly according to your imaginary "rules"? Blow me.
posted by cribcage at 5:41 PM on April 5, 2006

It's only the hard-to-find stuff that's worth going all out for.

I agree. Common stuff is common stuff. Watch anything you're interested in for days or weeks. See what it sells for. See how many bids the items get. Then, based on this information, set some sort of (low) maximum bid and stick to it. You can get all sorts of bargains this way.

But when the rare stuff comes along, well, you need to be ready to pay what you think it's worth. I collect comic strip compilatons, and there are some that just never come up. It's difficult to establish a baseline price for these (though researching through bookselling sites helps), but I do my best, and I bid what I'm willing to pay.

Another point that's been made in this thread repeatedly is worth emphasizing: snipers keep prices lower. When people bid early and often, they drive up prices for everyone. (When I sell things, I love for people to bid early and often.)
posted by jdroth at 5:42 PM on April 5, 2006

Sniping, it happens all the time.

If your 'maximum bid' is really 'the most you would pay' then it doesn't matter, does it? On a single-item auction, with strangers, at least -- where there's no use for strategic bidding.
posted by fleacircus at 5:46 PM on April 5, 2006

I've had more auctions ruined for me by two or more dumbasses constantly outbidding each other and jacking the price ludicrously for hours than I have by being sniped.
posted by cropshy at 5:47 PM on April 5, 2006

Just to clarify on what wryly said. The reason the bid was just a little bit higher than yours is because that's the way ebay auctions work. The person who won the auction could have bid 20 million dollars, but the ending auction price that they will have to pay will only be a "little bit more" (it depends on the relative cost of the auction) than what the second-highest person bid.

It's aggravating, though, you think "Wow, I could have bid five bucks more and gotten the Picasso" but in a lot of cases that's not true. I can't remember if you can actually see the "raw/actual" winning bid that the winner made if you participated in the auction or not.

Sniping should be made intrinsic to ebay which would level the playing field. But then that's less money for ebay, so it will never happen.
posted by user92371 at 5:58 PM on April 5, 2006

I don't think that you have any recourse at all. Let that one go.

This is why the "Buy it Now" feature is often a good thing. ;)
posted by drstein at 6:02 PM on April 5, 2006

I don't know if auto-extend is a common feature, but they have it on the site I use: If a bid is placed in the last two minutes then the auction extends for another two minutes.

I really like this feature - it stops snipers, it allows the seller to get the best price and it allows the genuine top bidder to win [rather than the person with the fastest computer/ best sniping software or just plain luck]
posted by meech at 6:05 PM on April 5, 2006

Did someone really just enter an amount possibly $500+ above the current price in the last 20 seconds of the auction

When I "snipe", I usually think about how much the item is worth and bid that amount, exactly so I outbid people (like you) who've already entered a high maximum bid.

If the item hasn't been bid up very high by the last minute, than it is likely that it will jump closer to it's true value before it closes.
posted by cillit bang at 6:12 PM on April 5, 2006

it allows the genuine top bidder to win [rather than the person with the fastest computer/ best sniping software or just plain luck]

How is a sniper not the genuine tip bidder, meech? If a sniper bids more than you did, he's the genuine top bidder. How can you even pretend to think otherwise?
posted by jdroth at 6:15 PM on April 5, 2006

You got sniped.

When I had really good cable modem service in New York City, I could rely on my software getting a bid in within the last 3 seconds of an auction.

What did it bid? Why, whatever I decided I was willing to pay for the thing at auction. No one ever got a bid in after me.

Can you beat this by hand? No.
posted by ikkyu2 at 6:19 PM on April 5, 2006

As a follow-up, does anyone have a nice Bethelhem glassworking lathe they'd like to part with? <nervous smile>
posted by odinsdream at 6:20 PM on April 5, 2006

Oh, and in fact, I was delighted when the people goofing around in the days before the auction close were several hundred dollars below my threshold. Would I place high bids to 'warn them off'? No.

My goal wasn't to inflate the final price; my goal was to place the winning bid on the item in question and have it be as low as possible. In all cases, my winning bid was the only bid I ever made on the item, and most times I picked it up for several hundred dollars less than the actual bid I placed.
posted by ikkyu2 at 6:23 PM on April 5, 2006

I was probably the last person to figure this out, but most any popular item can be purchased for less online. No bidding, waiting, losing. Electronics especially. Try Pricewatch, BensBargains, or Slickdeals

The only thing I've found ebay good for is mobile phone/ ipod accessories (always read the fine print--shipping costs get outrageous)
posted by vaportrail at 6:40 PM on April 5, 2006

Note that the item was a 1950's-era specialized piece of heavy machinery. I'd buy one from anybody, but eBay was the only place I even found one for sale.
posted by odinsdream at 6:43 PM on April 5, 2006

Another way to understand how ebay autobidding works: the highest bidding gets the items at the second-highest bider's price (plus one bid increment). This is how Google's IPO worked.

So, when you lose with a second place bid, it seems that bidding just 1$ or 2$ higher would have gotten you the item, but that isn't the case. You don't get to know how much higher the winner overbid you by until you try him.

I have two bidding strategies: snipe and anti-snipe. Snipe everyone told about. Anti-snipe is, bid your maximum price early in the week. Over the course of the auction, multiple people will try and fail to overbid you. It's discouraging for them, and they will stop trying. Plus, your early bid will win ties. This is important on items that have a consensus market value.
posted by gmarceau at 6:47 PM on April 5, 2006

As a follow-up, does anyone have a nice Bethelhem glassworking lathe they'd like to part with?

Well, that's the good news: If you wait long enough, you can find damn near anything on eBay. I shop on eBay only for the occasional, exceptionally-rare jazz CD; and I've found every one, despite having to wait more than a year in some cases. You can set eBay to save your favorite searches — and the next time someone lists a "Bethelhem glassworking lathe," you'll get automatic notification via e-mail.

Good luck.
posted by cribcage at 6:57 PM on April 5, 2006

Anyone who doesn't snipe for an item they really want on eBay is an idiot IMO.
I agree. When I am buying, I put on my buyer's hat and look out for myself, even if that means that I choose to leave bidding wars for the hyenas. When I'm selling, I hope the hyenas visit and start a bidding war. It's the nature of the beast. Since both of those things can happen on eBay, I feel like it's a great place to buy and sell.
posted by hodyoaten at 7:07 PM on April 5, 2006

I find complaints about sniping tedious. Bid your maximum and don't bitch when you get outbid. You got outbid! What part of "bid your maximum" did you not understand?

I always snipe, with my maximum bid.

Also, and I probably shouldn't disclose this, always bid $2.22 higher than your "max", just to get a buck/dime/penny above the other guy ... I works for me every time (~20 auctions in 10 years, I know I know).
posted by intermod at 7:25 PM on April 5, 2006

I've sniped, and used sniping software. But as a seller, I really wish Ebay would add a "not sniping" option. Other on-line auctions extend the auction end time whenever a bid is received in the last few minutes. Kills sniping dead.
posted by Marky at 7:37 PM on April 5, 2006

I marked the first answer Best because it was the first to mention snipers. I don't necessarily agree with the opinion that they're ruining eBay. I don't really have a problem with it.
posted by odinsdream at 7:38 PM on April 5, 2006

As far as I am concerned, when I'm bidding on an auction at EBay, my goal is to get the items I want as cheaply as possible.

Some people like to treat bidding like a game, where I bid a little, you bid a little higher, I bid a little higher, and so on. That's fine if you want to play that way, but I have no interest in that. My goal is in the first paragraph: I'm bidding to WIN, not to play.

Sniping is a critical component to that process because it deprives other people of the knowledge that I'm interested. By the time they know, it's too late... so if my interest would have driven up their willingness to pay, they think I 'cheated' somehow. That's garbage. I snipe-bid the true maximum I'll spend on something. If I lose, I shrug and keep looking: even if I lost by one cent, I already bid my max, so it was too expensive. If I win, cool.

You can bid that way or not bid that way.. it's up to you.

As far as using a computer program.... this is the NET. I'm already using computers for everything else. I'm using hundreds or thousands of separate programs to even view the damn Web page in the first place. Saying that I should only "manually" enter bids is one of the most arbitrary and ridiculous statements I've ever heard.

NOT using snipe software would be incredibly stupid. These are computers. Computers automate things. That's what they're FOR.
posted by Malor at 8:00 PM on April 5, 2006

But as a seller, I really wish Ebay would add a "not sniping" option.

As a seller, I love sniping. What's the problem? Your item is about to close for $20 — and suddenly, in the last minute, the price jumps to $45. That's pure profit. And snipers tend to only snipe — which is to say, if you opt-out your auction, they're not going to bid five days early. They're going to say, "Screw you, pal," and wait for another seller with the same item.
posted by cribcage at 8:10 PM on April 5, 2006

"For hundreds of dollars below....."

When has that ever happened in ebay?! That's the hardest place to get a deal on the internet.
posted by narebuc at 8:48 PM on April 5, 2006

How is a sniper not the genuine tip bidder, meech?

OK they are in this situation but it's not necessarily the highest possible bidder - its the person that got in last through sniping. This is logical for the system - it is the system that I think is flawed.

People that are anti-sniping [like myself] are looking for bargains - we don't want to pay our maximum price we want to pay the lowest price that will get us the object.

I don't understand why e-bay wouldn't have auto extend - snipers can still come in at the last moment and take out the auction if you aren't online when the auction is closing...but if bargain bidders like myself are watching live we have a continiously extending window to keep bidding up to our maximum. [And as an aside I hate snipers and will out-bid them on principle [petty and self-defeating I know...but then e-bay would get a higher percentage return]]
posted by meech at 8:53 PM on April 5, 2006

I learned the hard way long ago that you're a fool if you bid more than a minute before then end of an auction. I don't mind making initial bids at the begining of the auction to scare off bargain hunters, but if I want to own something, I hold my cards to my chest until the last seconds. It's saved me hundreds of dollars by not giving the other bidders time to think whether they are willing to pay a bit more than they were previously for the product. It also helps avoid the dissapointment of being sniped by someone else. I don't think it's ruining ebay at all.
posted by furtive at 8:55 PM on April 5, 2006

What some opponents to sniping seem to forget is that sniping is gambling. If you really want an item, you're already kinda sunk, so the best you can do is completely ignore it until the very end. But let's say you do that, and with a minute remaining, the highest bid is just a bit lower than the highest you'd like to pay for the item.

Ok, great. Now what do you do? "Maybe I could go another $50," you say to yourself. Unfortunately, that's what everyone else said to themselves, too, so their max bid is at least twice that... lurking... waiting for you to challenge it. So you try the snipe by entering in some outragously high price, and... you win! Unfortunately, someone else did the same thing, jacking your final price way the hell up so that it's no longer a good deal. Them's the breaks.

Good sniping is like a game. You look around for 5-10 other auctions all selling the same thing, but don't bid in any of them. Just watch them, see what happens. Maybe one auction has two idiots already trying to outbid each other in the early rounds. Another auction has a good price, but a boatload of bidders. Finally you find an auction with the item you want, with only a couple of bidders (and probably a bunch of snipers waiting in the wings). The problem--the gamble--is picking the max bid. Too low and you're outbid. Too high, and you win the auction but you're paying more than retail.

This is why you should never, ever use eBay to purchase "new" items that you can get in stores right now. Because chances are, you'll get a much better deal buying it outright without any of the hassle, outrageous shipping charges (some dealers are crooks with their s/h "fees"), dubious warantees, or other general dealer sketchiness.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 9:46 PM on April 5, 2006

"For hundreds of dollars below....." When has that ever happened in ebay?! That's the hardest place to get a deal on the internet.

Depends what you're looking for and how long you're willing to wait for it. A couple of weeks ago, I picked up a Yamaha YTS21 for $540, including shipping. I called around the local music shops, saying I had one that I was interested in selling, and what would they give me for it. The lowest price I got was $750; and they'd turn around and sell it for over a thousand dollars. (I lucked out there, as I'd only been looking for a couple of weeks.)
posted by jlkr at 9:58 PM on April 5, 2006

I'm a sniper too. I especially like that I can cancel my snipe at any time, if I change my mind about bidding.
posted by richg at 10:17 PM on April 5, 2006

This is why you should never, ever use eBay to purchase "new" items that you can get in stores right now.

I used a gift certificate to buy the fourth season of The Shield when it was released. Then I turned around and sold it on eBay for $40 plus $5 shipping — at which point the same DVD set was selling for $38.99 on Amazon, brand new, with free shipping.
posted by cribcage at 10:35 PM on April 5, 2006

I've realised that the way I use eBay is, according to the terms of this thread, "sniping by hand". It just seemed the sensible way to do it: watch the auction, and then 5 seconds before it finishes, put in my maximum bid. If someone else out there has a higher maximum in play, then I won't win. All's fair.

It never even crossed my mind that this tactic could be considered ungentlemanly conduct.
posted by bright cold day at 11:27 PM on April 5, 2006

I used to snipe by hand and treated it as a bit of a game. My best was under 2 seconds before auction end. Anyhow, having to be around for the end of the auction gets old and I didn't want to muck around with sniping software for the handful of times I'd use it. So I just started bidding my maximum whenever I saw the item I wanted. It turned out I won just as often. My theory is that timing isn't so important. What's important is bidding once and only once in any auction and when you bid, it's the maximum you're willing to pay.

Following this strategy means you don't get involved in silly bidding wars and you're forced to consider the price you're willing to pay before you make that single bid. If others outbid you, either through sniping or by other bidders getting competitive, that's their problem. They paid more than you thought the item was worth.

we don't want to pay our maximum price we want to pay the lowest price that will get us the object.

The lowest price that will get you the object is slightly greater than the next highest bid, whatever that is. That's how ebay's software works. If you bid the maximum you're willing to pay, that isn't necessarily what you will pay, it's just what it says it is - your maximum. If few others bid much lower, ebay will automatically outbid them on your behalf and you still get to 'win' at a lower price without having to return to the auction and rebid.

You're just as likely to get a bargain by bidding your maximum in one single bid as you are hovering over your keyboard until the auction ends. By bidding your maximum once, you're also protecting yourself from bidding more than you think the item is worth in the heat of an idiotic bidding war.
posted by normy at 12:42 AM on April 6, 2006

Watch anything you're interested in for days or weeks. See what it sells for. See how many bids the items get.

Alternatively, do a search in "Completed Listings Only" and immediately know the score. Life is short.
posted by meehawl at 4:52 AM on April 6, 2006

eBay officially doesn't like sniping, but there's very little they can do to stop it.

The eBay API until very recently didn't have a function to bid on an item. Last I heard, you still required special permission to access the PlaceOrder call, and you have to explain how you'll be using it, as the API developer agreement precludes "timed bids" (i.e. sniping).

However, there was a competition recently for eBay developers in the U.S. to come up with novel uses of the API (it's now far more free to use). The winning application was a tool for mobile phones that sends an SMS with a couple of minutes to go before a watched auction closes, and asks if you want to place a bid on it. Functionally speaking, this is "confirmed sniping".

I think that this will become a new model for sniping applications on eBay. I have ideas myself (and am actively developing with the API, I'll be announcing to projects.mefi soon).
posted by lowlife at 5:35 AM on April 6, 2006

I'm completely stunned that anyone still uses eBay without some kind of sniping tool - all that keeping multiple tabs open and checking your watch stuff seems like a lot of needless effort.

Before I started using one, I would quite frequently pay over the odds for stuff, as I watched the price going up and continued bidding. Now, I see something I want, decide how much I want to pay for it, and set up a snipe 6 seconds before the auction is due to end. I probably lose more auctions this way, but don't waste my money and time hanginging around auctions bidding more than I originally intended. Unless it's something really, really cool ;-)
posted by jack_mo at 9:06 AM on April 6, 2006

I learned the hard way long ago that you're a fool if you bid more than a minute before then end of an auction.

Agreed. That is, in an eBay auction. Took me a while to realize that an eBay auction doesn't really fit my definition of an auction, since it ends at a precise time, instead of when the fattest cat has raised his hand. It's something different, and if you want to acquire the object at the minimum cost, sniping's how to do it.

What's ruining eBay is people bidding up the amount in the early days of an item's listing. Knock it off -- the only time you should bid is during the final minute.
posted by Rash at 9:33 AM on April 6, 2006

When has that ever happened in ebay?! That's the hardest place to get a deal on the internet.

It depends on what you're looking for, and how much you know about what you're looking for.

Two quick examples: My mom loves Department 56 china houses. I have, several times, gotten her beautiful (used) ones for 25% or lower of the original selling price -- always in perfect condition, often pieces that have been retired.

Also, we're trying to complete my great-grandmother's china service. "Replacement China" stores sell even dinner plates for $50 or more. I pick up plates (and other pieces) on eBay fairly regularly for 2 - 3 dollars, plus shipping. They key is that I'm willing to browse, and I know what I'm looking at even when the sellers don't.
posted by anastasiav at 9:40 AM on April 6, 2006

Ebay offers a Dutch auction alternative for multiple items, which eliminates sniping. If they offered a true Dutch auction with a descending price method for single items, all bidders would be forced to offer the highest amount they are willing to pay, without possibility of sniping.
posted by beagle at 9:44 AM on April 6, 2006

gmarceau wrote: "Anti-snipe is, bid your maximum price early in the week. Over the course of the auction, multiple people will try and fail to overbid you. It's discouraging for them, and they will stop trying. Plus, your early bid will win ties."

I've won a couple of auctions that way. Also, if you get outbid, just wait awhile. Someone will have the same item up for grabs another day. Sometimes, if you see an item you really want, wait a while and the price will go down. For instance, I like to use Ebay to buy purses, and one I saw last year was $70, but I waited and this year, it was $30 and the people could hardly get rid of them.

I guess it really depends on what you're looking for. The best thing to use is "Buy it Now." Of course, as someone else mentioned, read the fine print. S&H is getting out of hand.
posted by cass at 10:01 AM on April 6, 2006

I'm completely stunned that anyone still uses eBay without some kind of sniping tool - all that keeping multiple tabs open and checking your watch stuff seems like a lot of needless effort.

Three answers.

First, it's not that much effort.

Second, I'm not about to pay for the privilege, and I'm a Mac user who keeps his computer problem-free by not installing every flea-ridden third-party program on the Web. That leaves free services — and frankly, I don't trust them. If I want the item, then I want the item and I trust myself to get it successfully more than I'd trust some free automated service.

Third, it's fun. It's mildly exciting. It's not labor. If you can't be home, then you don't win the item and who cares 'cause it was just a CD anyway; but if you're watching The Sopranos on a Sunday night, for a couple minutes the diversion of sniping an auction is an amusing little sport. The clock counts down, and it's fun just the way people watch the shuttle countdown or New Year's Eve — and then you win the item, and you get a small, momentary victory. It makes you smile.
posted by cribcage at 2:40 PM on April 6, 2006 [1 favorite]