Building musical relationships as a non-pro adult
October 2, 2021 4:59 AM Subscribe
I began playing woodwind instruments (primarily flute) as an adult (mid-university) five years ago. I am competent, and play in several community ensembles (or did until COVID came through...). But in a particular respect I remain frustrated - I have no close musical relationships with individual people (eg, bands, or honestly anybody to discuss musical concepts with in an informal way). I would like this kind of relationship in my life. How did it occur for you?
- If your answer is something like "I did X for three years and then eventually I was lucky", that's fine. Currently it just seems impossible. I am willing to be patient for a possibility.
- If your answer is something like "Get to X level of competence and do Y and Z", please try to be specific with X, Y and Z. Outside of formal exams, I have very little concrete material to work toward musically; and I am dubious about formal exams (mostly because the material seems very geared toward classical recitals and I'm not going to be a pro orchestral musician any time soon).
- If your answer is something like "I did X for three years and then eventually I was lucky", that's fine. Currently it just seems impossible. I am willing to be patient for a possibility.
- If your answer is something like "Get to X level of competence and do Y and Z", please try to be specific with X, Y and Z. Outside of formal exams, I have very little concrete material to work toward musically; and I am dubious about formal exams (mostly because the material seems very geared toward classical recitals and I'm not going to be a pro orchestral musician any time soon).
Friendships are made one-on-one, and not while playing. The smaller the group you play with, the more interpersonal interaction is required. If you could play duets or chamber music just for fun, you would get to know people better.
posted by SemiSalt at 6:25 AM on October 2, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by SemiSalt at 6:25 AM on October 2, 2021 [1 favorite]
I met a great friend and music buddy through a city-based subreddit. So maybe get on yours and ask if anyone is hosting jam nights?
I've also been using Ninjam to meet up and play with my distant friends, but there are public servers where you can just drop in and play with whoever is there. I wouldn't say I've made music friends that way, but I easily could.
Finally, I'm also a bit late to getting into music more seriously but I love to talk about theory and practice and improv stuff, drop me a memail and we could maybe chat or play online :)
posted by SaltySalticid at 6:39 AM on October 2, 2021 [1 favorite]
I've also been using Ninjam to meet up and play with my distant friends, but there are public servers where you can just drop in and play with whoever is there. I wouldn't say I've made music friends that way, but I easily could.
Finally, I'm also a bit late to getting into music more seriously but I love to talk about theory and practice and improv stuff, drop me a memail and we could maybe chat or play online :)
posted by SaltySalticid at 6:39 AM on October 2, 2021 [1 favorite]
I met my friends because they were busking at the local market and I did an abrupt stop, dropped my shopping in the corner and joined in singing. The song was obscure enough that I knew these were rare people who played my genre, and I was the rare person who could not only identify it, but knew the words.
At the end of the set we chatted and exchanged contact info. I almost all the others through half of that duo who is one of those connector type people who arranges small paying gigs and knows where to find a drummer on Friday morning for a Saturday night gig. Now my friends meet weekly for small group practice, in my yard to avoid Covid transmission. Winter will be an arid season because of not meeting indoors, and the time I use for extensive solo practice of the kind that sounds terrible.
So I would start looking for small performances of the correct sort at whatever venue - the little ones like when the library features a musician, or when a couple of people are hired to play for an vernisage, attend those where I would not be a gate crasher and introduce myself to the musicians.
Also consult with any business or organization that might have contact information for music teachers, instrument menders and musicians you can hire, such as the Musicians' Union, or the pawn shop that sells kids orchestral instruments, or your local musical instrument chain. You want to track down the person who will attach a thumb rest to your instrument or replace the cork and connect with them, as they will be somewhere near the centre of the grapevine. Even a wedding planner might be a really good lead as they could potentially tell you about an oboe player and a clarinetist who used to be available for weddings but are now looking for flute player because the one they used to play with has gone back to Denver.
You may also need to branch out. I wanted to find a group to sing with, and initially only found instrumentalists with one attached singer so much better than I was, that my singing was regrettably de trop, I did some singing with them, but in the end took up playing instead to participate, as there was no interest in a local singing group that would be my genre and include me. I also tried the local choirs but they didn't sing my genre either and I found their music dreary. However it kept me in training, and I observed that the 75 member choir singing barbershop was a good place to find four or five other singers that would enjoy madrigals and be potentially interested in forming their own small ensemble in order to have more of a chance to star. A large group doing related music is not unlikely to have players with a lot of interest in common with your niche.
posted by Jane the Brown at 7:22 AM on October 2, 2021 [1 favorite]
At the end of the set we chatted and exchanged contact info. I almost all the others through half of that duo who is one of those connector type people who arranges small paying gigs and knows where to find a drummer on Friday morning for a Saturday night gig. Now my friends meet weekly for small group practice, in my yard to avoid Covid transmission. Winter will be an arid season because of not meeting indoors, and the time I use for extensive solo practice of the kind that sounds terrible.
So I would start looking for small performances of the correct sort at whatever venue - the little ones like when the library features a musician, or when a couple of people are hired to play for an vernisage, attend those where I would not be a gate crasher and introduce myself to the musicians.
Also consult with any business or organization that might have contact information for music teachers, instrument menders and musicians you can hire, such as the Musicians' Union, or the pawn shop that sells kids orchestral instruments, or your local musical instrument chain. You want to track down the person who will attach a thumb rest to your instrument or replace the cork and connect with them, as they will be somewhere near the centre of the grapevine. Even a wedding planner might be a really good lead as they could potentially tell you about an oboe player and a clarinetist who used to be available for weddings but are now looking for flute player because the one they used to play with has gone back to Denver.
You may also need to branch out. I wanted to find a group to sing with, and initially only found instrumentalists with one attached singer so much better than I was, that my singing was regrettably de trop, I did some singing with them, but in the end took up playing instead to participate, as there was no interest in a local singing group that would be my genre and include me. I also tried the local choirs but they didn't sing my genre either and I found their music dreary. However it kept me in training, and I observed that the 75 member choir singing barbershop was a good place to find four or five other singers that would enjoy madrigals and be potentially interested in forming their own small ensemble in order to have more of a chance to star. A large group doing related music is not unlikely to have players with a lot of interest in common with your niche.
posted by Jane the Brown at 7:22 AM on October 2, 2021 [1 favorite]
I met my duet partner at an amateur piano group. She literally walked up to me and asked if I was interested in playing duets, and we're still going years later. This was after we'd seen each others' playing a few times.
I'd recommend reaching out to the community ensembles you know, or individuals in them, asking if any of them would like to try playing duos with you. If neither of you has books of suitable music already, IMSLP has a category of public domain sheet music for 2 flutes with varying levels of difficulty, as well as other duos like flute+clarinet, two treble instruments, etc.
Hiring a music teacher is also a good idea as mentioned above.
posted by polytope subirb enby-of-piano-dice at 7:38 AM on October 2, 2021
I'd recommend reaching out to the community ensembles you know, or individuals in them, asking if any of them would like to try playing duos with you. If neither of you has books of suitable music already, IMSLP has a category of public domain sheet music for 2 flutes with varying levels of difficulty, as well as other duos like flute+clarinet, two treble instruments, etc.
Hiring a music teacher is also a good idea as mentioned above.
posted by polytope subirb enby-of-piano-dice at 7:38 AM on October 2, 2021
honestly anybody to discuss musical concepts with in an informal way
I'm maybe not 100% sure what you're looking for here?
Like, are you looking to gain more knowledge of theory or ideas about dissonance or harmony or how music is arranged and constructed, only not in the "formal" context of classes and exams?
If so, than I'll second private lessons - like GPF says a lot of teachers are more than willing to talk about these things in addition to the performance aspects of instrument lessons, and a lot of times these topics will come up kind of naturally as you work on different pieces (i.e. how this Stravinsky piece differs from the Bach you worked on last month, or how you can examine how the Aaron Copland piece you're working on draws from folk music, etc etc etc.)
You could also maybe look into more uni courses (especially in adult/"continuing" education, if that's a thing in your area) on things like theory and music history (including jazz and pop/rock history.) You're back to a more formal setting with exams, but it's a different perspective on music than "how to play this piece correctly."
If you're looking for a more casual, "I just want to grab a coffee and kinda bullshit about music for a while" . . . I think the answer there is, unfortunately because COVID, "play more music with other people." You'll meet lots of other musicians, you'll click with some of them and make friends - and your conversations will have an element of talking about music, because that's something you'll have in common, and during the process of working on a piece you'll wind up having discussions about more wide-ranging musical topics. Like, I just did a gig last month with an orchestra accompanying an Americana folk-pop band, and during a break when I wandered over to the smoking area several of the orchestra members were talking about how reading those particular scores were actually kinda similar to reading the scores of through-composed music because of how the repeats and sections were structured.
I dunno, as someone who's worked in the music biz for decades and is/has been an occasional musician myself and has tons of musician friends and acquaintances, I'd say "informal" discussions about music happen either with friends when we're playing together and working on a tune or just sort of . . . naturally and occasionally as part of everyday conversation? Like, me & a musician buddy don't get together specifically to talk about music, we'll just be talking about all kinds of stuff and a tune will come on in the background and that'll lead to 10 minutes of chat about how & why the album after the one that song was on was the artist's best, and because we're both musicians there'll be an element of analysis that non-musicians don't really understand, and then we'll go back to chatting about our current favorite Netflix shows or whatever.
So, uh . . . yeah, maybe the answer is "meet more musicians once we're able to post-ish COVID", which you can do by playing in more groups and attending more small shows. (I met a ton of my current musician friends back in the day attending indie/punk shows in tiny grungy clubs, like half the people in the audience were budding musicians, and my bet is you could probably find something similar in small local chamber music concerts & things like that.)
posted by soundguy99 at 7:55 AM on October 2, 2021 [4 favorites]
I'm maybe not 100% sure what you're looking for here?
Like, are you looking to gain more knowledge of theory or ideas about dissonance or harmony or how music is arranged and constructed, only not in the "formal" context of classes and exams?
If so, than I'll second private lessons - like GPF says a lot of teachers are more than willing to talk about these things in addition to the performance aspects of instrument lessons, and a lot of times these topics will come up kind of naturally as you work on different pieces (i.e. how this Stravinsky piece differs from the Bach you worked on last month, or how you can examine how the Aaron Copland piece you're working on draws from folk music, etc etc etc.)
You could also maybe look into more uni courses (especially in adult/"continuing" education, if that's a thing in your area) on things like theory and music history (including jazz and pop/rock history.) You're back to a more formal setting with exams, but it's a different perspective on music than "how to play this piece correctly."
If you're looking for a more casual, "I just want to grab a coffee and kinda bullshit about music for a while" . . . I think the answer there is, unfortunately because COVID, "play more music with other people." You'll meet lots of other musicians, you'll click with some of them and make friends - and your conversations will have an element of talking about music, because that's something you'll have in common, and during the process of working on a piece you'll wind up having discussions about more wide-ranging musical topics. Like, I just did a gig last month with an orchestra accompanying an Americana folk-pop band, and during a break when I wandered over to the smoking area several of the orchestra members were talking about how reading those particular scores were actually kinda similar to reading the scores of through-composed music because of how the repeats and sections were structured.
I dunno, as someone who's worked in the music biz for decades and is/has been an occasional musician myself and has tons of musician friends and acquaintances, I'd say "informal" discussions about music happen either with friends when we're playing together and working on a tune or just sort of . . . naturally and occasionally as part of everyday conversation? Like, me & a musician buddy don't get together specifically to talk about music, we'll just be talking about all kinds of stuff and a tune will come on in the background and that'll lead to 10 minutes of chat about how & why the album after the one that song was on was the artist's best, and because we're both musicians there'll be an element of analysis that non-musicians don't really understand, and then we'll go back to chatting about our current favorite Netflix shows or whatever.
So, uh . . . yeah, maybe the answer is "meet more musicians once we're able to post-ish COVID", which you can do by playing in more groups and attending more small shows. (I met a ton of my current musician friends back in the day attending indie/punk shows in tiny grungy clubs, like half the people in the audience were budding musicians, and my bet is you could probably find something similar in small local chamber music concerts & things like that.)
posted by soundguy99 at 7:55 AM on October 2, 2021 [4 favorites]
If you already play in several groups, then you've already got a group of musicians at hand to network with and maybe find kindred spirits.
Can you tag on an informal social event to your meetings? E.g., advertise that after next rehearsal you're planning to retire to Joe's Bar around the corner, and anyone is welcome to join you. That kind of thing has worked pretty well for me in the past. It may help if you feel out maybe one or two people that you know better first, to ensure there will be a core of people there. It may also take a few tries untill people adjust their schedules to join in. A nearby bar or coffee shop is ideal as it's very low-risk for people to drop by and see what's up, knowing they can always leave when they're ready if it's not their thing.
Then you've got a chance to get to know some more people and feel out their interests.
(Obviously all slightly trickier to negotiate at the moment, depending on local covid conditions and weather and so on.)
But, like soundguy99, I'm a little vague on what exactly you're looking for.
posted by bfields at 1:26 PM on October 2, 2021 [1 favorite]
Can you tag on an informal social event to your meetings? E.g., advertise that after next rehearsal you're planning to retire to Joe's Bar around the corner, and anyone is welcome to join you. That kind of thing has worked pretty well for me in the past. It may help if you feel out maybe one or two people that you know better first, to ensure there will be a core of people there. It may also take a few tries untill people adjust their schedules to join in. A nearby bar or coffee shop is ideal as it's very low-risk for people to drop by and see what's up, knowing they can always leave when they're ready if it's not their thing.
Then you've got a chance to get to know some more people and feel out their interests.
(Obviously all slightly trickier to negotiate at the moment, depending on local covid conditions and weather and so on.)
But, like soundguy99, I'm a little vague on what exactly you're looking for.
posted by bfields at 1:26 PM on October 2, 2021 [1 favorite]
Ok so basically you're looking for music friends to talk about composers, classical music, practicing, etc., I.e. geek out on classical music? (I'm assuming it's classical since you mention flute and ensembles and you don't see flute often in other genres of music, except maybe jazz).
I'll talk about my experience: I joined a piano meetup a few years ago. We'd play for each other, then go to the pub afterwards. During COVID, these were virtual, so no pub meetups anymore. Then a few months ago I started my own offshoot of the meetup, where it was a small group of people to do a masterclass - play a piece then talk about what to work on.
So it sounds like you had a similar group to play music with but for whatever reason, you didn't talk to each other/become friends outside of that. I think that for any hobby, if you want to make friends with those people outside the hobby and keep talking, you have to ask. Something like, can I get your contact info and we can talk more about Bach (or whatever)? And see if the chemistry is there to geek out on classical music. They might not feel the need/desire to talk music, or they're not looking for new friends. It is challenging! There are very few people that I wanted to keep talking to from the meetup, but will talk to at the post meetup pub dinners (to be resumed post pandemic).
Other than that, I have a friend who also plays piano (but I haven't talked to in awhile cuz life is busy), a friend that I met a few years ago through our kids' daycare who plays piano, a piano friend who posted to r/r4r on Reddit pre-COVID looking for a date but instead found me (and whom I invited to the piano meetup - he said it was his most successful Reddit post 😂 ) and we text each other music links and memes every so often, and another friend I met from online speed dating. I'm also taking an online piano course where we discuss in an online community and live sessions - Q and As with the instructor and masterclasses. But I don't talk to people outside of that.
So it's hit and miss. Meet people who happen to be into music, or making friends from a hobby group... One thing I'd suggest is starting your own meetup group to play and chat with each other, or join groups on Reddit or Facebook and ask if anyone wants to talk further or if local to you, meet up IRL. Also violinist Ray Chen has a discord with lots of people talking music on it. They do online recitals too. I don't follow it much but something to consider. And not just violinists are there :)
posted by foxjacket at 7:05 AM on October 3, 2021 [1 favorite]
I'll talk about my experience: I joined a piano meetup a few years ago. We'd play for each other, then go to the pub afterwards. During COVID, these were virtual, so no pub meetups anymore. Then a few months ago I started my own offshoot of the meetup, where it was a small group of people to do a masterclass - play a piece then talk about what to work on.
So it sounds like you had a similar group to play music with but for whatever reason, you didn't talk to each other/become friends outside of that. I think that for any hobby, if you want to make friends with those people outside the hobby and keep talking, you have to ask. Something like, can I get your contact info and we can talk more about Bach (or whatever)? And see if the chemistry is there to geek out on classical music. They might not feel the need/desire to talk music, or they're not looking for new friends. It is challenging! There are very few people that I wanted to keep talking to from the meetup, but will talk to at the post meetup pub dinners (to be resumed post pandemic).
Other than that, I have a friend who also plays piano (but I haven't talked to in awhile cuz life is busy), a friend that I met a few years ago through our kids' daycare who plays piano, a piano friend who posted to r/r4r on Reddit pre-COVID looking for a date but instead found me (and whom I invited to the piano meetup - he said it was his most successful Reddit post 😂 ) and we text each other music links and memes every so often, and another friend I met from online speed dating. I'm also taking an online piano course where we discuss in an online community and live sessions - Q and As with the instructor and masterclasses. But I don't talk to people outside of that.
So it's hit and miss. Meet people who happen to be into music, or making friends from a hobby group... One thing I'd suggest is starting your own meetup group to play and chat with each other, or join groups on Reddit or Facebook and ask if anyone wants to talk further or if local to you, meet up IRL. Also violinist Ray Chen has a discord with lots of people talking music on it. They do online recitals too. I don't follow it much but something to consider. And not just violinists are there :)
posted by foxjacket at 7:05 AM on October 3, 2021 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
For the classical and chamber music world: If you're not already, taking lessons might also make sense. Some teachers might be very open to a short series of 1-2 months of lessons to evaluate your playing, give some notes on what to work on, and - to the point of your question - discuss musical ideas and have discussions about the woodwind community in your area to find others you could connect with. Many teachers relish adult conversations about music and musical community issues to balance a studio full of young beginners.
posted by GPF at 6:17 AM on October 2, 2021 [3 favorites]