Boaters, divers, sailors, lend me your (inner) ears
April 3, 2006 8:02 AM Subscribe
I'm exceedingly susceptible to seasickness. I'm an avid scuba diver, and I'm now learning how to sail. Both activities put me in smallish boats, and if there's any chop, it's only a matter of time before I am leaning over the side. I don't want my inner ears to keep me from doing things that I enjoy. Please share your tips on keeping your inner ears happy and your lunch down.
My standard approach is multi-pronged: I use a combination of non-drowsy dramamine or bonine (I can't tell the difference between them- they help, but they don't eliminate the problem), sea-bands and ginger capsules. Over time I've learned that certain foods make it worse, so I avoid things like coffee and protein-laden meals before going aboard.
I've also tried the "relief bands" with the electric pulse, and they do help, but I can't wear them diving like I can wear the sea-bands.
It may be time to pull out the big guns and get a prescription for the Scopolamine patch. Can anyone share their experience with it? I'm concerned that the reported side effects (blurred vision, disorientation) would be a real problem for diving/sailing.
Is there any other angle to this that I'm overlooking?
My standard approach is multi-pronged: I use a combination of non-drowsy dramamine or bonine (I can't tell the difference between them- they help, but they don't eliminate the problem), sea-bands and ginger capsules. Over time I've learned that certain foods make it worse, so I avoid things like coffee and protein-laden meals before going aboard.
I've also tried the "relief bands" with the electric pulse, and they do help, but I can't wear them diving like I can wear the sea-bands.
It may be time to pull out the big guns and get a prescription for the Scopolamine patch. Can anyone share their experience with it? I'm concerned that the reported side effects (blurred vision, disorientation) would be a real problem for diving/sailing.
Is there any other angle to this that I'm overlooking?
Over time, your brain can learn to ignore the cues your middle ear is sending, that are causing your stomach distress. Going for a longer sail, and concentrating on keeping your eyes on the horizon, or, if you must be below, on keeping your eyes closed as much as possible, will help a lot in getting your "sea legs." The meds that make things more bearable in the short term tend to keep this adaptation from happening for some people, and may thus even prolong the problem. Some people find that once they have gotten their "sea legs" they are much less likely to become seasick on subsequent adventures. But, if you are susceptible, you may still find situations where you are going to become distressed, such as when scuba diving and surfacing into a big surface chop where you bob around for a while waiting on your pickup boat, and are unable to get a visual horizon reference, or keep your eyes closed, and in such situations, you basically have to learn to endure what you can't forsee or reasonably prevent. Here's a page which has some generally tried and true strategies for those looking for alternatives to the standard medications.
posted by paulsc at 8:32 AM on April 3, 2006
posted by paulsc at 8:32 AM on April 3, 2006
Mythbusters took a crack at seasickness. They tested the drugs, the armbands and ginger. Ginger came out on top. I don't think it'll work for everyone, but it might be worth a try. I believe they were taking it in capsule form.
posted by Constant Reader at 8:43 AM on April 3, 2006
posted by Constant Reader at 8:43 AM on April 3, 2006
Best answer: When I was testing motion sickness remedies for NASA many years ago, the most effective chemical remedy was scopolamine/amphetamine. However, the side effects were definitely nasty, including things like paranoia - hardly what you need underwater.
Two things leap to mind that might interest you. A good friend of mine, Dr Tom Dobie, did a Ph.D. thesis on curing motion sickness in fighter pilots. He had them spin around on a motion sickness inducing platform every day. However, they were to abort the run at the very first sign of stomach awareness and note how long the run was on a day-by-day graph. They then went about their day as usual. Within 90 days, the vast majority of these subjects were completely free of any symptoms of motion sickness. The graph offered them a very evident presentation of their progress over the course of the treatment. (Tom told me that he did this to over 1,000 patients so there would be no argument over the statistical treatment of the data.)
While you do not have access to a motion sickness platform, I have easily improvised one from an office chair that swivels. If you turn the chair with your feet and hold the arms of the chair with your hand, then slowly bend forward and back as you turn, you will induce the kind of signals that can cause motion sickness. The rate of turn only needs to be about 1 revolution every 5 seconds and the bending can be at the same frequency.
Note how long you can do this to the point of first awareness of stomach upset and graph the results each day. You should only do this once a day. The point of this exercise is to adapt your neural mechanisms to the set of mixed signals that comes with unusual motion. This adaptation is best served if you remain comfortable. If you push yourself into the upset stomach regime, you will associate even more strongly the combination of motion and sickness.
Another thing to bear in mind. Several decades ago, some psychologists at Harvard were experimenting on the placebo effect. They brought a group of people who were susceptible to motion sickness out on a fishing boat. The group was ostensibly testing the efficacy of a new motion sickness drug. It was billed as being so powerful that it needed a doctor's prescription. The "doctor" was part of the boat's crew and the test was done on a choppy day.
As expected the subjects all became very motion sick and all lined up to get their prescription and dose of drug. This drug cured the motion sickness completely in most of them and significantly in some others. Only 2 (as I recall) remained ill. The "drug" was actually Ipecac, a violent emetic used to induce vomiting for drug overdose or food poisoning patients!
The point of this latter example is that we are capable of controlling an affliction like motion sickness very effectively with our minds. It requires a truly positive attitude plus the time necessary to absolve ourselves of old habits.
If I can be of further help, email me.
posted by RMALCOLM at 8:55 AM on April 3, 2006 [1 favorite]
Two things leap to mind that might interest you. A good friend of mine, Dr Tom Dobie, did a Ph.D. thesis on curing motion sickness in fighter pilots. He had them spin around on a motion sickness inducing platform every day. However, they were to abort the run at the very first sign of stomach awareness and note how long the run was on a day-by-day graph. They then went about their day as usual. Within 90 days, the vast majority of these subjects were completely free of any symptoms of motion sickness. The graph offered them a very evident presentation of their progress over the course of the treatment. (Tom told me that he did this to over 1,000 patients so there would be no argument over the statistical treatment of the data.)
While you do not have access to a motion sickness platform, I have easily improvised one from an office chair that swivels. If you turn the chair with your feet and hold the arms of the chair with your hand, then slowly bend forward and back as you turn, you will induce the kind of signals that can cause motion sickness. The rate of turn only needs to be about 1 revolution every 5 seconds and the bending can be at the same frequency.
Note how long you can do this to the point of first awareness of stomach upset and graph the results each day. You should only do this once a day. The point of this exercise is to adapt your neural mechanisms to the set of mixed signals that comes with unusual motion. This adaptation is best served if you remain comfortable. If you push yourself into the upset stomach regime, you will associate even more strongly the combination of motion and sickness.
Another thing to bear in mind. Several decades ago, some psychologists at Harvard were experimenting on the placebo effect. They brought a group of people who were susceptible to motion sickness out on a fishing boat. The group was ostensibly testing the efficacy of a new motion sickness drug. It was billed as being so powerful that it needed a doctor's prescription. The "doctor" was part of the boat's crew and the test was done on a choppy day.
As expected the subjects all became very motion sick and all lined up to get their prescription and dose of drug. This drug cured the motion sickness completely in most of them and significantly in some others. Only 2 (as I recall) remained ill. The "drug" was actually Ipecac, a violent emetic used to induce vomiting for drug overdose or food poisoning patients!
The point of this latter example is that we are capable of controlling an affliction like motion sickness very effectively with our minds. It requires a truly positive attitude plus the time necessary to absolve ourselves of old habits.
If I can be of further help, email me.
posted by RMALCOLM at 8:55 AM on April 3, 2006 [1 favorite]
This just repeats advice from above, but it's from a sailing friend whose boat I've puked over the side of before...
"As for food, also avoid anything greasy. When you feel it coming on, look at the horizon or land and take deep slow breaths. Don't look at the boat if you can avoid it, and for god's sake don't go in to the cabin."
posted by sohcahtoa at 9:32 AM on April 3, 2006
"As for food, also avoid anything greasy. When you feel it coming on, look at the horizon or land and take deep slow breaths. Don't look at the boat if you can avoid it, and for god's sake don't go in to the cabin."
posted by sohcahtoa at 9:32 AM on April 3, 2006
Best answer: The patch worked great for me - when I was taking sailing lessons I got so sick that I was afraid I was gonna die, then later in the day I was afraid I wouldn't die.
The Scope patch made my mouth a little dry, but I never noticed any other side effects, and sailing was much more fun after that.
posted by DandyRandy at 9:42 AM on April 3, 2006
The Scope patch made my mouth a little dry, but I never noticed any other side effects, and sailing was much more fun after that.
posted by DandyRandy at 9:42 AM on April 3, 2006
I've also tried using Sudafed. My ears feel "clearer" and I feel less queasy.
posted by egk at 10:27 AM on April 3, 2006
posted by egk at 10:27 AM on April 3, 2006
Response by poster: Thanks for the input so far. RMALCOM's information about training oneself out of it is quite intriguing, I'll definitely explore that. DandyRandy's report on using the patch while diving was useful as well.
Looking at the horizon doesn't help in my case- I'm better off keeping my eyes closed (which is okay as a passenger on a dive boat, but makes me less useful on a sailboat.)
Sudafed, eh? That's a new one.
Please note that I am already using ginger capsules.
posted by ambrosia at 10:38 AM on April 3, 2006
Looking at the horizon doesn't help in my case- I'm better off keeping my eyes closed (which is okay as a passenger on a dive boat, but makes me less useful on a sailboat.)
Sudafed, eh? That's a new one.
Please note that I am already using ginger capsules.
posted by ambrosia at 10:38 AM on April 3, 2006
Oops, sorry about that. I swear I read the entire post.
posted by Constant Reader at 10:42 AM on April 3, 2006
posted by Constant Reader at 10:42 AM on April 3, 2006
RMALCOLM had a similarly great comment in this closely related AskMe.
For my wife, seasickness is all about the smell of petrol. You probably know whether that's making you ill, but anyway, avoid that end of the boat.
posted by Aknaton at 11:06 AM on April 3, 2006
For my wife, seasickness is all about the smell of petrol. You probably know whether that's making you ill, but anyway, avoid that end of the boat.
posted by Aknaton at 11:06 AM on April 3, 2006
Best answer: As someone who has spent six months living on a boat and gets seasickness, I feel quite well qualified to take a stab at answering this one.
In general, our experience was that scopolamine patches tend to work less well for women. It isn't that they didn't work in terms of preventing seasickness, but that they seemed to have worse side effects in women, beyond the dry mouth that most seem to get. These included depression and feeling really wacked out. I have heard anecdotal evidence that putting it on your behind rather than behind your ear gives a more measured dose and may work better for women, but didn't try this myself. I suppose we tended to be discussing it with people who were leaving it on for several days for a long trip.. I found it initially fine, so you may well find it is okay for using if you are just going out for a day, but I found that after longer than a day, the side effects began to outweigh the benefits.
It is worth trying all the different drugs you can get your hands on (not simultaneously!). We experimented with probably just about all that is available on the market (different things are available in different countries) and found that the side effects and effectiveness are extremely variable between people. Some would have me out flat and limp, and others were fine. Taking it well ahead of when you need it is good advice (if I remembered, I would often take it before bed the night before setting off). Some people prefer doing half doses if you find you get too wacked out by a full dose, but this requires some experimentation.
Other things - stay up on deck if you can, mint and ginger flavoured things are good, potato chips are GREAT (I don't know what it is, think it is something to do with the salt and something that sits well in the stomach). Steering the boat sometimes helped me, but if I was already quite sick, I'd just find it exhausting.
There was a placebo experiment done on our boat when there were some passengers and no seasickness medication left. Ok, not entirely scientific conditions, but it didn't work.
posted by AnnaRat at 4:47 PM on April 3, 2006
In general, our experience was that scopolamine patches tend to work less well for women. It isn't that they didn't work in terms of preventing seasickness, but that they seemed to have worse side effects in women, beyond the dry mouth that most seem to get. These included depression and feeling really wacked out. I have heard anecdotal evidence that putting it on your behind rather than behind your ear gives a more measured dose and may work better for women, but didn't try this myself. I suppose we tended to be discussing it with people who were leaving it on for several days for a long trip.. I found it initially fine, so you may well find it is okay for using if you are just going out for a day, but I found that after longer than a day, the side effects began to outweigh the benefits.
It is worth trying all the different drugs you can get your hands on (not simultaneously!). We experimented with probably just about all that is available on the market (different things are available in different countries) and found that the side effects and effectiveness are extremely variable between people. Some would have me out flat and limp, and others were fine. Taking it well ahead of when you need it is good advice (if I remembered, I would often take it before bed the night before setting off). Some people prefer doing half doses if you find you get too wacked out by a full dose, but this requires some experimentation.
Other things - stay up on deck if you can, mint and ginger flavoured things are good, potato chips are GREAT (I don't know what it is, think it is something to do with the salt and something that sits well in the stomach). Steering the boat sometimes helped me, but if I was already quite sick, I'd just find it exhausting.
There was a placebo experiment done on our boat when there were some passengers and no seasickness medication left. Ok, not entirely scientific conditions, but it didn't work.
posted by AnnaRat at 4:47 PM on April 3, 2006
I make sure to take the dramamine/bonine the night before I go out instead of that morning. It made all the difference on the world to me. Some of my friends swear by toking a tiny bit of herb when they feel it coming on, and they swear that it's effective (if that's an option for you).
posted by kamikazegopher at 7:51 PM on April 3, 2006
posted by kamikazegopher at 7:51 PM on April 3, 2006
I also get very motion sick, including when I am take airplane flights and go downhill skiing. This is a great thread.
Are there any "stare-at-the-horizon" type tips for times when you're trapped inside (like on a plane)?
posted by medusa at 9:27 PM on April 3, 2006
Are there any "stare-at-the-horizon" type tips for times when you're trapped inside (like on a plane)?
posted by medusa at 9:27 PM on April 3, 2006
I'd second the sudafed/pseudoephedrine and other decongestants vote. Once I determined a lot of my motion sickness was related to sinus congestion (more congested on one side than the other, sometimes) I was able to more easily treat it. If you're prone to being at all sinusy, also try chewing gum and blowing air out your ears -- in my experience, if your eustacian tubes are clogged you'll get off-balance quickly.
posted by mikeh at 8:01 AM on April 4, 2006
posted by mikeh at 8:01 AM on April 4, 2006
"Are there any "stare-at-the-horizon" type tips for times when you're trapped inside (like on a plane)?"
I just have to sit in a window seat, and during takeoffs/landings (and especially during taxiing) I have to stare out the window. Not particularly at the horizon, but I have to keep my focus on the outdoors and not inside the plane at all.
Once the plane is flying steadily, I can read and do whatever, usually... but I have to have that window available for takeoffs/landings. One time I got a window seat but there was an engine right outside the window, so I couldn't actually see anything outside -- that was the worst flight I ever had.
The good thing is that if you explain the situation to the airline they will generally make sure you get a window seat.
Regarding training the sickness away by spinning in an office chair or whatever -- I trained motion sickness away from figure skating spinning by just spinning one more rotation each day until it didn't bother me any more, combined with ginger capsules at first. But -- it didn't cure motion sickness in any other context. I still got seasick even though I could spin and spin on skates.
posted by litlnemo at 4:34 PM on April 4, 2006
I just have to sit in a window seat, and during takeoffs/landings (and especially during taxiing) I have to stare out the window. Not particularly at the horizon, but I have to keep my focus on the outdoors and not inside the plane at all.
Once the plane is flying steadily, I can read and do whatever, usually... but I have to have that window available for takeoffs/landings. One time I got a window seat but there was an engine right outside the window, so I couldn't actually see anything outside -- that was the worst flight I ever had.
The good thing is that if you explain the situation to the airline they will generally make sure you get a window seat.
Regarding training the sickness away by spinning in an office chair or whatever -- I trained motion sickness away from figure skating spinning by just spinning one more rotation each day until it didn't bother me any more, combined with ginger capsules at first. But -- it didn't cure motion sickness in any other context. I still got seasick even though I could spin and spin on skates.
posted by litlnemo at 4:34 PM on April 4, 2006
Response by poster: Update: I got a prescription for Scopolamine, and used it yesterday for sailing. It worked great! My mouth was a touch dry, but other than that, I had no unwelcome side effects, and I didn't get pukey at all.
Thanks everyone for their tips and experiences.
posted by ambrosia at 12:03 PM on April 24, 2006
Thanks everyone for their tips and experiences.
posted by ambrosia at 12:03 PM on April 24, 2006
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