Comments on: what laws are they breaking?

Question: what laws are they breaking?

Paris Hilton — Mon, 03 Apr 2006 02:41:41 -0800

What specific laws are illegal immigrants breaking while being here illegally? What laws are broken if they hop the border, and what laws are broken if they over-stay a visa? Are violating these laws crimes, or civil infractions? Are there any state laws on immigration violations? I keep hearing Mexican workers called "criminals" but I'm not sure if that's accurate, it's certainly annoying.

By: Paris Hilton

Paris Hilton — Mon, 03 Apr 2006 02:42:33 -0800

by crime I mean felony or misdemeanor.

By: b1tr0t

b1tr0t — Mon, 03 Apr 2006 03:22:18 -0800

Plenty of Mexican workers are legal, the illegal ones most likely lack a proper work visa. People who employ these people knowingly break the law by not paying the relevant employment taxes.

Some undocumented (a word that is more specific than simply "illegal") workers create or obtain false work credentials. They and their employers typically pay the appropriate taxes, but they are doing so by stealing someone else's identity.

Other workers and employers might be violating minimum wage laws. This both puts downward pressure on legitimate wages and may replace some legitimate employment.

By: 543DoublePlay

543DoublePlay — Mon, 03 Apr 2006 04:23:44 -0800

Not all Mexican workers are criminals, and not all criminals are Mexican workers. The "illegal", or as b1tr0t correctly points out, undocumented aliens are here without the benefit of any paperwork, or background checks to see if they have some kind of criminal record.

Speaking as a person that came here from the UK the legal way many years ago, I can tell you from experience that the US Embassy did a lot of checking into my background before I finally got my green card approved. Following that I then had to follow the INS rules before I could apply for citizenship and at any moment they could have thrown my ass out of the US if I had broken any of them.

The undocumented aliens merely walk across the border and the companies that hire them have no idea who they are hiring or what baggage they bring with them. No taxes are paid and yet we are expected to support them in terms of health care, education for the children and more.

There is no incentive for them to integrate into our society or to learn the English language, and so they do not do either. There is something wrong when I cannot give my order to the staff in McDonalds because they don't understand me.

The whole idea of the "Guest Worker" concept would seem to be the best solution. Allow foreign workers to come here and work for a number of years, pay our wonderful taxes, learn our language and be integrated in our society. Then after XX years they could apply for permanent resident status -- so long as they have fulfilled those requirements and can take a test to prove they have done so. At that point they can stay or leave as they wish without fear of being arrested or deported.

By: antifuse

antifuse — Mon, 03 Apr 2006 04:44:01 -0800

This page seems to have a pretty good breakdown of the laws and regulations regarding immigration, specifically the Immigration and Nationality Act. As a start, any way.

By: Witty

Witty — Mon, 03 Apr 2006 05:51:42 -0800

I keep hearing Mexican workers called "criminals" but I'm not sure if that's accurate, it's certainly annoying.

Too bad. If you're doing something illegal, then you're committing a crime. If you're committing a crime, then you're a criminal. Now of course, not ALL Mexican workers are illegals, which means they aren't all criminals.

The undocumented aliens merely walk across the border and the companies that hire them have no idea who they are hiring or what baggage they bring with them.

Don't kid yourself. Most employers know exactly what they're doing. The rest of your comment I agree with. Stop the flow, help the people that are here already, be here legally.

By: RustyBrooks

RustyBrooks — Mon, 03 Apr 2006 05:55:57 -0800

The discussion on guest worker programs seems to reference the current infranction as breaking the civil immigration laws. The only punishment seems to be deportation although I do believe there are some cases that can result in a short jail stay (1 year), although this is rare. Many of the proposed changes to immigration law include making the breaking of such laws a felony.

Please folks, answer the question.

By: unSane

unSane — Mon, 03 Apr 2006 05:56:17 -0800

"If you're doing something illegal, then you're committing a crime"

This is not true. Violations of statutes are illegal and punishable by law. Violations of regulations promulgated by regulatory agencies are dealt with by administrative law proceedings or legal action.

For example, if you park illegally you are often not committing a crime.

By: Witty

Witty — Mon, 03 Apr 2006 06:00:33 -0800

For example, if you park illegally you are often not committing a crime.

Then I stand corrected... although that still isn't clear to me.

By: Witty

Witty — Mon, 03 Apr 2006 06:05:14 -0800

Nevermind... I got it. I think got a little ahead of myself, since I believe that the vast majority of people coming here illegally KNOW that they are doing so... which seems more criminal to me, whether or not the behavior actually is or not.

By: Witty

Witty — Mon, 03 Apr 2006 06:05:39 -0800

...or not, or not.

By: jellicle

jellicle — Mon, 03 Apr 2006 06:08:32 -0800

"no taxes are paid", says 543 Doubleplay. This is a persistent myth, but an untrue one.

Social Security contributions under incorrect SSNs are up to 200 billion dollars. The average undocumented immigrant worker comes here, provides a false SSN, has social security and taxes deducted from his paycheck like everyone else, and permanently loses that money to the U.S. and state governments because he never claims Social Security payments or files a tax return. This turns out to be quite a huge tax subsidy they're paying; they pay MORE taxes than an American doing a similar job, and get less in return. As you can expect, the Social Security people have no interest in stopping people from sending money to them credited under bogus SSNs - people who pay in without being able to claim SS are the best kind of people, in their eyes.

As for the original question, mostly they aren't breaking any criminal laws (i.e., laws with jail time attached). Being in the U.S. illegitimately is grounds for deportation but not for a jail sentence. In entering the U.S., there may be minor offenses committed (trespassing) as they cross ranchers' land near the border.

By: I Love Tacos

I Love Tacos — Mon, 03 Apr 2006 06:59:33 -0800

According to the Arizona senator, they aren't petty criminals, they are all murderers, rapists and child molesters.

So there's your list of most popular crimes... unless a politician was lying to inflame the public during an election year.

By: raedyn

raedyn — Mon, 03 Apr 2006 07:14:00 -0800

The undocumented aliens merely walk across the border and the companies that hire them have no idea who they are hiring or what baggage they bring with them. - 543DoublePlay

Don't kid yourself. Most employers know exactly what they're doing. - Witty

I think 543DoublePlay meant the employers don't know these worker's history w/r/t criminal record etc. I don't believe s/he was suggesting that the employers are ignorant about the worker's undocumented status. That's how I read it, anyway.

By: Paris Hilton

Paris Hilton — Mon, 03 Apr 2006 07:20:32 -0800

Too bad. If you're doing something illegal, then you're committing a crime.

If it's not a felony or a misdemeanor, then it's not a crime. You also didn't answer my question at all.

By: Paris Hilton

Paris Hilton — Mon, 03 Apr 2006 07:26:27 -0800

Hmm, I was hoping I could avoid reading the INA, but I guess I might have to. I hadn't thought about 'ancillary' crimes of providing false identification to get employment, or working on a tourist visa.

Still, does anyone know the specific statues that are being violated just by being in the country?

By: Amizu

Amizu — Mon, 03 Apr 2006 07:44:12 -0800

Still, does anyone know the specific statues that are being violated just by being in the country?

Do you mean the statutes that are violated by various means of illegal entry like entering without inspection, overstaying a visa, or obtaining a visa through fraud?

By: ROU_Xenophobe

ROU_Xenophobe — Mon, 03 Apr 2006 08:09:12 -0800

No taxes are paid and yet we are expected to support them in terms of health care, education for the children and more. There is no incentive for them to integrate into our society or to learn the English language, and so they do not do either.

Uh-huh. Also they smell funny, are oversexed, and want to steal our women.

By: Pollomacho

Pollomacho — Mon, 03 Apr 2006 08:19:34 -0800

The INA as linked above, see also the 8 CFR.

By: Witty

Witty — Mon, 03 Apr 2006 08:43:15 -0800

If it's not a felony or a misdemeanor, then it's not a crime.

Obtaining fraudulant documentation... like an SSN or a driver's license, etc... is a crime. People who do this are criminals.

By: mikeh

mikeh — Mon, 03 Apr 2006 08:48:13 -0800

I think this angry yet thought-out list is food for thought.

That said, check out Wikipedia's entry. It indicates that crossing the border is a misdemeanor but doesn't make the visa situation clear.

Roughly 60% of the illegal alien population are undocumented aliens and 40% are nonimmigrant overstayers. Crossing the border without authorization is a misdemeanor for the first offense and a felony for subsequent violations. Immigrants who are caught illegally trespassing U.S. territory are fingerprinted and immediately returned, unless they are a repeat offender, in which case they may be criminally prosecuted. The Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986 (IRCA) made the hiring of an illegal alien an offense for the first time.

By: shanevsevil

shanevsevil — Mon, 03 Apr 2006 08:48:46 -0800

We going to answer the man's question or are we going to use this as an excuse to argue about the guest worker program?

By: drstein

drstein — Mon, 03 Apr 2006 09:03:33 -0800

The NH attorney general says that they can be charged under criminal trespassing. Link here.

So there's an answer to at least one part of your question. ;)

By: vacapinta

vacapinta — Mon, 03 Apr 2006 09:58:48 -0800

Section 1325. Improper entry by alien

(a) Improper time or place; avoidance of examination or inspection;
misrepresentation and concealment of facts
Any alien who (1) enters or attempts to enter the United States
at any time or place other than as designated by immigration
officers, or (2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration
officers, or (3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United
States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the
willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first
commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or
imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent
commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or
imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.
(b) Improper time or place; civil penalties
Any alien who is apprehended while entering (or attempting to
enter) the United States at a time or place other than as
designated by immigration officers shall be subject to a civil
penalty of -
(1) at least $50 and not more than $250 for each such entry (or
attempted entry); or
(2) twice the amount specified in paragraph (1) in the case of
an alien who has been previously subject to a civil penalty under
this subsection.
Civil penalties under this subsection are in addition to, and not
in lieu of, any criminal or other civil penalties that may be
imposed.