How do you cut someone off
June 18, 2021 7:02 PM Subscribe
Is that even the right thing to do here?
In high school one of my best friends was a flamboyantly gay guy in my grade. We grew up together. He is funny and brilliant and friends with everyone. He loves to dance and he is a remarkably talented singer--he has one of the best singing voices I've ever heard in my life. He has never met a stranger and growing up he was loved by virtually everyone who met him. We volunteered with special needs kids together, and he had such a way with them--he would get on their level, talk to them, really look at them. Everyone loved him.
But he was troubled, too. He came from a troubled family and at times had no where to go. One day he called me while his foster mom was (supposedly) choking out his younger brother and all I could hear was screaming. His case worker once called me on the phone. He slept in the school one night and spent a lot of time at my house, with my family. It was a wonderful friendship but it was a hard one, too, because when he wasn't kind and funny and brilliant he could be cruel. He never really meant it and he always apologized, but he said some terrible things to me over the years, though admittedly that hasn't happened in SEVERAL years now. After we graduated (he dropped out and got his GED) he joined the military and left and was later diagnosed with Bipolar disorder.
He came waltzing back into my life (and my family's life) peak COVID and the peak end of what I suspect was a psychotic episode, where he became fully engulfed in the 5G theory. My parents, against their better judgment, let him into their home and spent time with him, much to my great distress. He did not believe in COVID and my parents are high risk. They are normally so careful and this could have killed them. I said this and they eventually set better boundaries, at my urging (i.e. we all wear masks in the house), though the entire situation is questionable. My parents are now vaccinated.
He is no longer the sweet little boy who was friends with everyone and loved to sing. He is very, very, very, very sick. He developed a delusion last fall that his special needs younger brother was being sodomized by his group home and showed up and tried to take him. He then told my parents people were trying to kill him and they went and got him and brought him to their house, DURING COVID, then called me about it. I was terrified that they were going to get sick so I drove an hour and a half to get him and let him stay with me, where he yammered the entire time about his delusions and god and other nonsensical things. He was off his medicine. He is very, very ill.
He ended up at a treatment center in another state (some Jesus thing that didn't really help; he's become fundamentally religious and is convinced that he's not gay and that being gay is a sin) but is now back. And he's still sick. He went off his meds again. He is starting to develop more delusions. His dog died under mysterious circumstances that he won't talk about. He will only smoke weed because it is more "natural". He has become very reliant on my family and I; he regularly asks for money and now owes my parents $800. It's confounding because he says he gets $3,000 a month from the VA; I have no idea where his money is going. He does not have a car and if he pays rent I'm sure it's very low. He is normally VERY good about paying it back to be fair, though they have said they won't him anything else at this point (who knows if they will follow through on it). He was living at some VA treatment center but left because he said everyone was on drugs there and now he's living with my parents.
I am exhausted. This has been a wonderful friendship at times, one that has supported me and helped me grow, but there is also a lot of hurt there, too. My parents don't really seem to grasp just how cruel he can be. He has not done it to me in a long time, but I know that streak is still in him, and I also know he is very unwell. At this point they are enabling him; he is off his meds and cannot hold down a job or a place to live, and they are giving him money and shelter. He does not need to go on his meds. They have him covered.
And I am so tired. I have had the longest two years of my life. COVID was bad enough but I have had other absurd things happen to me too, like being run out of someone's house while working on the front lines of the pandemic in another state, being forced to live without running water, several terrible heartbreaks, a godawful car accident, everything that COVID brought us and so much more. I'm burned out. I am not well and going to see my family is normally really restorative for me but now he is there and that's going to drain me even more. Maybe that's selfish but I don't care. I am the person people turn to when they are struggling; there is something in my face that compels people to share their problems with me. I am sure this is a kind trait and I try to treat people with respect, always, but right now I am just so fucking tired I can't do it. On top of everything I'm working and studying for my boards (which has been beyond stressful) and now I can't even go home to see my parents without being thrust into this hot mess of a situation. And I need them right now. But he is there with no where else to go.
A lot of this falls on my parents, but I am tied into it, too. They will listen to me if I really sit down and have a serious talk with them. But what do we say? I don't want to cut him out, but right now the only thing I can think is that he cannot stay with them or have money unless he is seeing a doctor and on medication. But how do we even verify that? Do we just need to cut him out? Part of me wants to but the other part says no, that's so cruel. He has been nothing but kind and grateful as of late and has shown my parents nothing but love and respect over the years. They really do mean the world to him. But if we need to cut him out (and it is we; my parents and I would all have to do this together, as we are all three tied so tightly into this situation) I am afraid he will snap and be so, so cruel. They do not know the other side of him, but I do, and it is uglier than they realize. Plus, he is so ill right now that I have no idea what he would do.
I'm just so tired. This friendship has drained a lot out of me over the years and I'm so burnt out already and now this. I am in therapy, fwiw; I know I need it badly.
I know a lot of this ultimately falls on my parents, but it involves me as well, since I have also given money and sheltered him and all else. I have told them how I feel. But I am at a loss. I want to sit down and have a serious conversation with them about how we need to address this but I don't even know where to begin. What would you do?
In high school one of my best friends was a flamboyantly gay guy in my grade. We grew up together. He is funny and brilliant and friends with everyone. He loves to dance and he is a remarkably talented singer--he has one of the best singing voices I've ever heard in my life. He has never met a stranger and growing up he was loved by virtually everyone who met him. We volunteered with special needs kids together, and he had such a way with them--he would get on their level, talk to them, really look at them. Everyone loved him.
But he was troubled, too. He came from a troubled family and at times had no where to go. One day he called me while his foster mom was (supposedly) choking out his younger brother and all I could hear was screaming. His case worker once called me on the phone. He slept in the school one night and spent a lot of time at my house, with my family. It was a wonderful friendship but it was a hard one, too, because when he wasn't kind and funny and brilliant he could be cruel. He never really meant it and he always apologized, but he said some terrible things to me over the years, though admittedly that hasn't happened in SEVERAL years now. After we graduated (he dropped out and got his GED) he joined the military and left and was later diagnosed with Bipolar disorder.
He came waltzing back into my life (and my family's life) peak COVID and the peak end of what I suspect was a psychotic episode, where he became fully engulfed in the 5G theory. My parents, against their better judgment, let him into their home and spent time with him, much to my great distress. He did not believe in COVID and my parents are high risk. They are normally so careful and this could have killed them. I said this and they eventually set better boundaries, at my urging (i.e. we all wear masks in the house), though the entire situation is questionable. My parents are now vaccinated.
He is no longer the sweet little boy who was friends with everyone and loved to sing. He is very, very, very, very sick. He developed a delusion last fall that his special needs younger brother was being sodomized by his group home and showed up and tried to take him. He then told my parents people were trying to kill him and they went and got him and brought him to their house, DURING COVID, then called me about it. I was terrified that they were going to get sick so I drove an hour and a half to get him and let him stay with me, where he yammered the entire time about his delusions and god and other nonsensical things. He was off his medicine. He is very, very ill.
He ended up at a treatment center in another state (some Jesus thing that didn't really help; he's become fundamentally religious and is convinced that he's not gay and that being gay is a sin) but is now back. And he's still sick. He went off his meds again. He is starting to develop more delusions. His dog died under mysterious circumstances that he won't talk about. He will only smoke weed because it is more "natural". He has become very reliant on my family and I; he regularly asks for money and now owes my parents $800. It's confounding because he says he gets $3,000 a month from the VA; I have no idea where his money is going. He does not have a car and if he pays rent I'm sure it's very low. He is normally VERY good about paying it back to be fair, though they have said they won't him anything else at this point (who knows if they will follow through on it). He was living at some VA treatment center but left because he said everyone was on drugs there and now he's living with my parents.
I am exhausted. This has been a wonderful friendship at times, one that has supported me and helped me grow, but there is also a lot of hurt there, too. My parents don't really seem to grasp just how cruel he can be. He has not done it to me in a long time, but I know that streak is still in him, and I also know he is very unwell. At this point they are enabling him; he is off his meds and cannot hold down a job or a place to live, and they are giving him money and shelter. He does not need to go on his meds. They have him covered.
And I am so tired. I have had the longest two years of my life. COVID was bad enough but I have had other absurd things happen to me too, like being run out of someone's house while working on the front lines of the pandemic in another state, being forced to live without running water, several terrible heartbreaks, a godawful car accident, everything that COVID brought us and so much more. I'm burned out. I am not well and going to see my family is normally really restorative for me but now he is there and that's going to drain me even more. Maybe that's selfish but I don't care. I am the person people turn to when they are struggling; there is something in my face that compels people to share their problems with me. I am sure this is a kind trait and I try to treat people with respect, always, but right now I am just so fucking tired I can't do it. On top of everything I'm working and studying for my boards (which has been beyond stressful) and now I can't even go home to see my parents without being thrust into this hot mess of a situation. And I need them right now. But he is there with no where else to go.
A lot of this falls on my parents, but I am tied into it, too. They will listen to me if I really sit down and have a serious talk with them. But what do we say? I don't want to cut him out, but right now the only thing I can think is that he cannot stay with them or have money unless he is seeing a doctor and on medication. But how do we even verify that? Do we just need to cut him out? Part of me wants to but the other part says no, that's so cruel. He has been nothing but kind and grateful as of late and has shown my parents nothing but love and respect over the years. They really do mean the world to him. But if we need to cut him out (and it is we; my parents and I would all have to do this together, as we are all three tied so tightly into this situation) I am afraid he will snap and be so, so cruel. They do not know the other side of him, but I do, and it is uglier than they realize. Plus, he is so ill right now that I have no idea what he would do.
I'm just so tired. This friendship has drained a lot out of me over the years and I'm so burnt out already and now this. I am in therapy, fwiw; I know I need it badly.
I know a lot of this ultimately falls on my parents, but it involves me as well, since I have also given money and sheltered him and all else. I have told them how I feel. But I am at a loss. I want to sit down and have a serious conversation with them about how we need to address this but I don't even know where to begin. What would you do?
Response by poster: Hi sorry, I won't threadsit but I'm going to answer that question.
I don't live with them or in the same city as them. I have also provided him money and shelter, so I am going to need to cut him off somehow if nothing else, since he's reliant on me as well. They are not the only ones entangled in it, even if we live in different cities (about an hour apart).
I worry that he's taking advantage of them and I worry about repercussions for all of us if/when we need to cut him off. Like I said, I want to talk to them about options for handling it when he approaches us for help in the future. What they do with that conversation is their business. But I at least want to propose ways to deal with it.
I don't think they're being defrauded and elder abuse isn't really appropriate, since they're not really elderly. I know there's nothing I can really do besides talk to them, but I'd at least like to have some idea of what to say.
posted by Amy93 at 7:40 PM on June 18, 2021
I don't live with them or in the same city as them. I have also provided him money and shelter, so I am going to need to cut him off somehow if nothing else, since he's reliant on me as well. They are not the only ones entangled in it, even if we live in different cities (about an hour apart).
I worry that he's taking advantage of them and I worry about repercussions for all of us if/when we need to cut him off. Like I said, I want to talk to them about options for handling it when he approaches us for help in the future. What they do with that conversation is their business. But I at least want to propose ways to deal with it.
I don't think they're being defrauded and elder abuse isn't really appropriate, since they're not really elderly. I know there's nothing I can really do besides talk to them, but I'd at least like to have some idea of what to say.
posted by Amy93 at 7:40 PM on June 18, 2021
now I can't even go home to see my parents without being thrust into this hot mess of a situation. And I need them right now.
This is the thing you need to tell your parents.
posted by heatherlogan at 8:21 PM on June 18, 2021 [12 favorites]
This is the thing you need to tell your parents.
posted by heatherlogan at 8:21 PM on June 18, 2021 [12 favorites]
I think the best thing you can do for yourself is let go of the idea that you can shield your parents from seeing his "other side". It's just a level of control that's not possible for you to have over the situation, and it sounds like wanting to control that is the biggest thing holding you back from being fully open with your parents about exactly what you're scared of.
posted by augustimagination at 8:28 PM on June 18, 2021 [5 favorites]
posted by augustimagination at 8:28 PM on June 18, 2021 [5 favorites]
How do you cut someone off
Is that even the right thing to do here?
He needs real help. He will likely keep getting little bits of help and avoiding real help. Real help is expensive and often has waiting lists. Call the local hospital, ask to talk to a social worker, find out who in your area provides serious mental health care. If he is at your home or your parents', and is a danger to himself or others, take him to the ER. The VA may have help for him. Try very hard to talk him into getting on Medicaid and getting good care and staying on meds. Talk to your folks about following the same guidelines. The US does not have adequate mental health care, access is difficult, but all you can do is try.
Otherwise, read Stop Walking on Eggshells, and set boundaries.
posted by theora55 at 8:57 PM on June 18, 2021 [2 favorites]
Is that even the right thing to do here?
He needs real help. He will likely keep getting little bits of help and avoiding real help. Real help is expensive and often has waiting lists. Call the local hospital, ask to talk to a social worker, find out who in your area provides serious mental health care. If he is at your home or your parents', and is a danger to himself or others, take him to the ER. The VA may have help for him. Try very hard to talk him into getting on Medicaid and getting good care and staying on meds. Talk to your folks about following the same guidelines. The US does not have adequate mental health care, access is difficult, but all you can do is try.
Otherwise, read Stop Walking on Eggshells, and set boundaries.
posted by theora55 at 8:57 PM on June 18, 2021 [2 favorites]
Mental illness affects the entire family, and you are this person's family. NAMI has resources for families both to help their person but also to protect themselves and support each other. There may be a peer-led support group near you - you would be surprised how many people are dealing with this. Boundaries are everything, but they're so hard when you know that enforcing them will increase the suffering of this person you love ... that's where your parents are, and it is excruciating. Support from people who get it would be helpful for them, and for you.
Another potential resource is Families Anonymous. It is mostly families dealing with addiction but it nominally includes mental health, and the support around boundaries is the same.
posted by headnsouth at 4:37 AM on June 19, 2021 [3 favorites]
Another potential resource is Families Anonymous. It is mostly families dealing with addiction but it nominally includes mental health, and the support around boundaries is the same.
posted by headnsouth at 4:37 AM on June 19, 2021 [3 favorites]
right now the only thing I can think is that he cannot stay with them or have money unless he is seeing a doctor and on medication.
This is exactly what experts recommend you do with this type of mental illness - you set up deals where they have to do something you want (generally, take their meds/see a doctor) to get what they want (usually money or shelter) from you. I highly recommend you read the book “I am Not Sick; I Don’t Need Help!”. Even just reading the first chapter or two should be immensely helpful.
Another helpful thing from the book - don’t argue with them about their delusions. Just say things like “Wow, that sounds really awful. It must be really upsetting! What can we do that would make you feel better?” (That can actually result in you finding your first bargaining point.)
As far as how you can tell if they’re taking their meds, it will probably be pretty obvious. But you can also make an agreement where they have to actually take their meds in front of you to be allowed to continue to stay there. Be sure to check under their tongue. And yes, it feels awful to have to treat someone like this, but remember, it is literally for their own good. It can truly save their life.
Don’t expect them to agree to anything easily. You’ll probably have to push a lot and absolutely stand firm on not letting them stay unless they take their meds. Make sure that your whole family is in agreement about this, and do your best to support each other.
posted by MexicanYenta at 6:04 AM on June 19, 2021 [3 favorites]
This is exactly what experts recommend you do with this type of mental illness - you set up deals where they have to do something you want (generally, take their meds/see a doctor) to get what they want (usually money or shelter) from you. I highly recommend you read the book “I am Not Sick; I Don’t Need Help!”. Even just reading the first chapter or two should be immensely helpful.
Another helpful thing from the book - don’t argue with them about their delusions. Just say things like “Wow, that sounds really awful. It must be really upsetting! What can we do that would make you feel better?” (That can actually result in you finding your first bargaining point.)
As far as how you can tell if they’re taking their meds, it will probably be pretty obvious. But you can also make an agreement where they have to actually take their meds in front of you to be allowed to continue to stay there. Be sure to check under their tongue. And yes, it feels awful to have to treat someone like this, but remember, it is literally for their own good. It can truly save their life.
Don’t expect them to agree to anything easily. You’ll probably have to push a lot and absolutely stand firm on not letting them stay unless they take their meds. Make sure that your whole family is in agreement about this, and do your best to support each other.
posted by MexicanYenta at 6:04 AM on June 19, 2021 [3 favorites]
My dad fell down the rabbit hole of extremist religion a few years ago. The people who ran his “church” became like life guides to him. At the time, he was so taken in by their promises and rhetoric that what they said meant everything to him, whereas me and my mom couldn’t get a word in edgewise and he wouldn’t listen to us at the time. He absolutely, 100% listened to and did what they told him to.
Is your friend a member of any one church or religious group that corresponds with his religious beliefs? If you’re able to track down a leader in such an organization who knows your friend well and talk to them about his problems, this person might be able to convince your friend to seek professional help or external resources in a way that you and your parents wouldn’t have as much luck with. (A caveat to all this is that this obviously needs to be done in a way that ensures your friend’s safety, so maybe stop pursuing this angle if you start to get major crazy vibes off of the org/leader). Or maybe the church has a website and you can just go online and find an email contact to give him or a recommendation of a support group or something if you don’t feel comfortable reaching out and talking to these people directly because you don’t want to get involved.
The leader’s opinions and advice might be taken more seriously than yours and your parents. And it might get the friend out of your parents’ house. Just a thought.
posted by oywiththepoodles at 9:26 AM on June 19, 2021
Is your friend a member of any one church or religious group that corresponds with his religious beliefs? If you’re able to track down a leader in such an organization who knows your friend well and talk to them about his problems, this person might be able to convince your friend to seek professional help or external resources in a way that you and your parents wouldn’t have as much luck with. (A caveat to all this is that this obviously needs to be done in a way that ensures your friend’s safety, so maybe stop pursuing this angle if you start to get major crazy vibes off of the org/leader). Or maybe the church has a website and you can just go online and find an email contact to give him or a recommendation of a support group or something if you don’t feel comfortable reaching out and talking to these people directly because you don’t want to get involved.
The leader’s opinions and advice might be taken more seriously than yours and your parents. And it might get the friend out of your parents’ house. Just a thought.
posted by oywiththepoodles at 9:26 AM on June 19, 2021
You are not sheltering or financially supporting him right now, though. Your parents are -- and that is, and will remain, their choice. I understand you want to have your parents to yourself on your visit(s) without this person's energy getting in the way, but I think there are ways to accomplish that without demanding your parents push him out their door forever.
It sounds like you are worried about asking for what you want, and that he will be cruel to you or your parents if you do. But you cant control other people's reactions, as augustimagination said. And if you request he stays elsewhere for a weekend (or a week) and he lashes out...well, then your parents will see that side of him and can draw what conclusions they may.
You might have to accept that you wont get what you want out of this situation, regardless of how you present it to your parents. Or if you do manage to, it may be a long and fraught road to get there that has additional consequences.
I advise you to be honest with your parents about your needs (to spend time with them sans friend) and your fears (that he is taking advantage), *without* making demands or suggestions about what they should do about it and see how they view the situation.
posted by ananci at 9:28 AM on June 19, 2021 [3 favorites]
It sounds like you are worried about asking for what you want, and that he will be cruel to you or your parents if you do. But you cant control other people's reactions, as augustimagination said. And if you request he stays elsewhere for a weekend (or a week) and he lashes out...well, then your parents will see that side of him and can draw what conclusions they may.
You might have to accept that you wont get what you want out of this situation, regardless of how you present it to your parents. Or if you do manage to, it may be a long and fraught road to get there that has additional consequences.
I advise you to be honest with your parents about your needs (to spend time with them sans friend) and your fears (that he is taking advantage), *without* making demands or suggestions about what they should do about it and see how they view the situation.
posted by ananci at 9:28 AM on June 19, 2021 [3 favorites]
Response by poster: My parents want him out of the house as well. I understand that I do not need to take this stressor, but I want to help them. They do not want to take this on and we are worried about him becoming violent if any of us try to cut him off. I am looking for ways to try and cut him off gently that will not lead to violence. He is 6’5, black, gay, and a body builder. We are afraid that if they need to call the police the police will kill him. I don’t know what to do. I cannot do nothing if I am concerned that my parents safety could be in danger.
I know I cannot control what my parents do. I have talked to them and they know how I feel. We all want to cut him off but we don’t know how to do that. That is what I need help with.
posted by Amy93 at 9:55 AM on June 19, 2021 [2 favorites]
I know I cannot control what my parents do. I have talked to them and they know how I feel. We all want to cut him off but we don’t know how to do that. That is what I need help with.
posted by Amy93 at 9:55 AM on June 19, 2021 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: He showed up unannounced and guilted them into letting him stay. My parents can be easy to take advantage of. Sorry, I really don’t want to threadsit—I just want to clarify because this is new information to me. I understand the responses saying this is on them or suggesting resources, but at this point he refuses to be medicated, will not leave, and will not get other help and we don’t know what to do. He is not acting violent or anything but he is clearly manic and they are giving him what he wants right now because he is twice their size and half their age. We just need a way to safely get him out for both him and their parents and I feel compelled to at least try and help them do that.
posted by Amy93 at 10:00 AM on June 19, 2021
posted by Amy93 at 10:00 AM on June 19, 2021
Is there a mobile mental health crisis team in your parents’ area? If so, you can call them instead of the police if it looks like things are heading to an emergency.
posted by expialidocious at 11:07 AM on June 19, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by expialidocious at 11:07 AM on June 19, 2021 [2 favorites]
Have your parents even asked him to leave? If not, that is step one. His response will help decide on step two.
If they do not want to ask him to leave, then you should tell them you need their support and discuss with them how they can provide it despite him living with them.
posted by metasarah at 6:44 PM on June 19, 2021
If they do not want to ask him to leave, then you should tell them you need their support and discuss with them how they can provide it despite him living with them.
posted by metasarah at 6:44 PM on June 19, 2021
Response by poster: He’s gone. Apparently he came to their house straight from the psych hospital. He asked to go to a shelter and it looks like when he got there they called the police. I don’t know what happened after that.
posted by Amy93 at 7:39 AM on June 20, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by Amy93 at 7:39 AM on June 20, 2021 [6 favorites]
expialidocious has the right idea. If he comes back, what you want to ask the police for if you call is a Crisis Intervention Team.
posted by MexicanYenta at 9:27 AM on June 20, 2021
posted by MexicanYenta at 9:27 AM on June 20, 2021
I suggest you contact NAMI (National Alliance On Mental Illness). They were an enormous help to a close relative of mine who was coping with a young adult offspring who had become mentally ill.
http://www.nami.org
posted by SageTrail at 9:38 PM on June 20, 2021
http://www.nami.org
posted by SageTrail at 9:38 PM on June 20, 2021
In some places they have a program where you can set up a relationship ahead of time with the police, in the hopes that then they're less likely to kill the mentally ill person if someone calls 911 during a crisis. I don't know how well it works, especially for large Black men like your friend, but it could be worth looking into.
posted by The corpse in the library at 4:35 PM on June 21, 2021
posted by The corpse in the library at 4:35 PM on June 21, 2021
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Beyond that, I really don't see what's tying you to this person - are you worried that your parents are being defrauded, and don't have the wherewithal to defend themselves? There are elder abuse agencies that you can reach out to.
From a perspective centred on you, I think you're going to need to realize that your parents aren't going to change what sounds like a 20-year-long relationship that they've had with this person. Knowing that, I think you're going to have to find other ways to self-soothe, recuperate, etc, that don't involve going to the family home, since that seems to be the practical problem here.
posted by sagc at 7:34 PM on June 18, 2021 [2 favorites]