What's up with Croissants?
June 12, 2021 7:59 AM Subscribe
I don't really get croissants. How do cultures that are more croissant-based incorporate them into everyday life?
The key reason bagels are preferred in the USA is that they are so sturdy. Bagel is tougher than bread/toast. They don't crumble, we often toast them so they are warm, and spread flavored cream cheese on them, and make them into sandwiches.
First, when you eat them, don't the flakes go everywhere? And your hands all buttery/greasy? If people brought croissants to a business meeting, would everyone have crumbs and grease on their laps the whole time?
Second, when you eat them, is the flavor more in the croissant itself (like a cookie), or toppings / additions (like a bagel)?
Third, some people (in the USA) add butter to croissants. Is that standard fare?
Are croissants served more like donuts, in a box/in wax paper, or more like bagels in a bag?
More than anything else: Why would you ever choose a croissant over a bagel?
The key reason bagels are preferred in the USA is that they are so sturdy. Bagel is tougher than bread/toast. They don't crumble, we often toast them so they are warm, and spread flavored cream cheese on them, and make them into sandwiches.
First, when you eat them, don't the flakes go everywhere? And your hands all buttery/greasy? If people brought croissants to a business meeting, would everyone have crumbs and grease on their laps the whole time?
Second, when you eat them, is the flavor more in the croissant itself (like a cookie), or toppings / additions (like a bagel)?
Third, some people (in the USA) add butter to croissants. Is that standard fare?
Are croissants served more like donuts, in a box/in wax paper, or more like bagels in a bag?
More than anything else: Why would you ever choose a croissant over a bagel?
Bagels are a savoury, sandwich-y, substantial-meal-type food; slightly stodgy in texture. Croissants are a sweet, flaky, buttery, sugary treat.
To me, croissants are best enjoyed plain, or with a sweet addition such as almond paste. Adding butter is unnecessary, they're basically pure butter already.
If I had a croissant at a breakfast meeting, I would definitely want a plate to catch flakes. And a napkin to wipe my delicious, buttery fingers.
posted by Klipspringer at 8:13 AM on June 12, 2021 [7 favorites]
To me, croissants are best enjoyed plain, or with a sweet addition such as almond paste. Adding butter is unnecessary, they're basically pure butter already.
If I had a croissant at a breakfast meeting, I would definitely want a plate to catch flakes. And a napkin to wipe my delicious, buttery fingers.
posted by Klipspringer at 8:13 AM on June 12, 2021 [7 favorites]
Nothing about a croissant is especially practical, from the incredibly intricate lamination process of making pastry (which I'd never do at home) to the flakes that, as you note, get everywhere. But honestly, that's part of the appeal.
posted by deludingmyself at 8:14 AM on June 12, 2021 [41 favorites]
posted by deludingmyself at 8:14 AM on June 12, 2021 [41 favorites]
You would choose a croissant over a bagel in situations where your considerations (flakes, buttery hands, etc.) don’t matter. Which is to say, at home, on a weekend. I would never think of bringing croissants to a meeting at work, but they’re great with Nutella at my dining room table.
posted by kevinbelt at 8:15 AM on June 12, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by kevinbelt at 8:15 AM on June 12, 2021 [3 favorites]
I mean, I'm American, but there was a time when my breakfast was often a pain au chocolat (aka "chocolate croissant") picked up at a deli. You can eat them while walking as long as you don't mind shedding bits, and I'd usually awkwardly hold it with the bag or napkin. Once I got into the office I'd wash my hands if I got them greasy.
Healthy? No. Delicious? Yes.
posted by BungaDunga at 8:16 AM on June 12, 2021 [10 favorites]
Healthy? No. Delicious? Yes.
posted by BungaDunga at 8:16 AM on June 12, 2021 [10 favorites]
Bagels are stodgy, that's why I'd pick a croissant over a bagel every day*.
Croissant flavour is about good layers of butter in the pastry, at its peak in the caramelised butter and contrasting dark chocolate seam in a pain au chocolate.
*: unless it was a business meeting, only do performative eating at a business meeting.
posted by k3ninho at 8:17 AM on June 12, 2021 [4 favorites]
Croissant flavour is about good layers of butter in the pastry, at its peak in the caramelised butter and contrasting dark chocolate seam in a pain au chocolate.
*: unless it was a business meeting, only do performative eating at a business meeting.
posted by k3ninho at 8:17 AM on June 12, 2021 [4 favorites]
I worked at a coffeehouse for a few years and can confirm that there are an upsetting number of people who like to butter their croissants.
The only reason I eat croissants is for the buttery goodness they already are composed of. I can tear open a croissant and stuff it with hard cheese and proscuitto and it isn't dry as a bone like a bagel would be.
Eating a croissant in a professional setting* is something I would avoid at all costs.
*unless I worked as a croissant-taster which I now aspire to.
posted by RobinofFrocksley at 8:24 AM on June 12, 2021 [22 favorites]
The only reason I eat croissants is for the buttery goodness they already are composed of. I can tear open a croissant and stuff it with hard cheese and proscuitto and it isn't dry as a bone like a bagel would be.
Eating a croissant in a professional setting* is something I would avoid at all costs.
*unless I worked as a croissant-taster which I now aspire to.
posted by RobinofFrocksley at 8:24 AM on June 12, 2021 [22 favorites]
Also, it may be a question of the quality of the bagel/croissant. A fresh croissant, or a fresh, good bagel, are really incomparable to each other. They're just very different things!
But a mediocre bagel or a mediocre croissant can be both sort of mealy and bready and I can see how one might not have a strong preference either way.
posted by BungaDunga at 8:24 AM on June 12, 2021 [28 favorites]
But a mediocre bagel or a mediocre croissant can be both sort of mealy and bready and I can see how one might not have a strong preference either way.
posted by BungaDunga at 8:24 AM on June 12, 2021 [28 favorites]
Personally, I am not a fan of bagels. Too chewy and too stodgy. I like bagel chips.
We very often have croissants at meetings. I'm trying to cut down on carbs, so I rarely eat them, but I do like them. The thing is, if you eat a croissant (or any bread or pastry) in an elegant way, you don't take a bite off of the whole pastry, you rip off a piece that fits in your mouth. Thus the issues with crumbs stay on the plate. You use a napkin for the grease.
Croissants with fillings are a thing, though kind of an 1980's thing. These, you eat with a knife and fork. Though a croissant with simple ham and cheese, no mayo or butter, might be eaten like a sandwich, with your hands. I would never, ever do either at a formal occasion, and I hate when I am served sandwiches or croissants with ham and cheese at meetings, where I will not eat them. I wouldn't eat a bagel either, mind. Sandwiches are for picnics.
Butter on croissants is weird, I can't explain that.
In Italy, they have gorgeous smaller croissant-like things called cornetti, that you eat while standing up at a bar with your espresso. These, one bites into, and there is a small mess, but since you are standing up at a bar, the mess falls to the floor, which is routinely cleaned. Italians are experts in not getting grease or crumbs on their clothes.
posted by mumimor at 8:25 AM on June 12, 2021 [8 favorites]
We very often have croissants at meetings. I'm trying to cut down on carbs, so I rarely eat them, but I do like them. The thing is, if you eat a croissant (or any bread or pastry) in an elegant way, you don't take a bite off of the whole pastry, you rip off a piece that fits in your mouth. Thus the issues with crumbs stay on the plate. You use a napkin for the grease.
Croissants with fillings are a thing, though kind of an 1980's thing. These, you eat with a knife and fork. Though a croissant with simple ham and cheese, no mayo or butter, might be eaten like a sandwich, with your hands. I would never, ever do either at a formal occasion, and I hate when I am served sandwiches or croissants with ham and cheese at meetings, where I will not eat them. I wouldn't eat a bagel either, mind. Sandwiches are for picnics.
Butter on croissants is weird, I can't explain that.
In Italy, they have gorgeous smaller croissant-like things called cornetti, that you eat while standing up at a bar with your espresso. These, one bites into, and there is a small mess, but since you are standing up at a bar, the mess falls to the floor, which is routinely cleaned. Italians are experts in not getting grease or crumbs on their clothes.
posted by mumimor at 8:25 AM on June 12, 2021 [8 favorites]
I'm in the US, and I have a good bakery in my neighborhood that has the approval of someone I know who grew up in France eating the real deal. An average Panera-type croissant would get nothing but disdain from this person but this local bakery's croissants are masterful; the flakes of the crispy exterior vs. the soft interior, the simplicity of flavor, and the airy texture that can only be created by the super laborious lamination process are all part of the appeal. It's about just good butter and flour and salt; bad ingredients would have nowhere to hide, but with a bagel you could use lower quality flour loaded with toppings and maybe get away with it because the toppings are where more of the flavor is. I eat a bagel when I want chew and carb overload; I eat a croissant when I want to experience its subtleties. A good croissant needs nothing else, certainly not more butter if it was loaded with the good stuff to begin with, but of course almonds or chocolate are not unwelcome. I would never eat a bagel plain, but I often choose the plain croissant over the loaded ones.
posted by slow graffiti at 8:26 AM on June 12, 2021 [5 favorites]
posted by slow graffiti at 8:26 AM on June 12, 2021 [5 favorites]
US croissants are generally heinous, and I would pick a bagel every time in the US. (I have, however, also had some heinous bagels, which are little more than round bread with a hole in it.)
French croissants are absolutely worth it, especially torn in half and dipped into hot chocolate or milky coffee. It's not a "breakfast meeting" food. It's a "sit and eat your breakfast properly like a civilized person" food.
posted by basalganglia at 8:31 AM on June 12, 2021 [47 favorites]
French croissants are absolutely worth it, especially torn in half and dipped into hot chocolate or milky coffee. It's not a "breakfast meeting" food. It's a "sit and eat your breakfast properly like a civilized person" food.
posted by basalganglia at 8:31 AM on June 12, 2021 [47 favorites]
If you need to put anything at all on a croissant, you're eating a low-quality croissant.
They're not intended to taste anything like bagels or serve the same purpose. And many people choose food based on taste rather than practical concerns - flaking isn't really a dealbreaker for most people, I would guess. They're eaten because they're delicious. Try one from a decent French bakery before deciding you don't like them.
posted by randomnity at 8:31 AM on June 12, 2021 [8 favorites]
They're not intended to taste anything like bagels or serve the same purpose. And many people choose food based on taste rather than practical concerns - flaking isn't really a dealbreaker for most people, I would guess. They're eaten because they're delicious. Try one from a decent French bakery before deciding you don't like them.
posted by randomnity at 8:31 AM on June 12, 2021 [8 favorites]
I forgot: when you buy croissants here, you get them in a bag. It's a very normal thing to say, "lets have a coffee, I'll bring croissants". Obviously not after lunch. After lunch, you need cake.
Also, the 1980's style fillings I mentioned above, that I have a kind of nostalgia for, are typically mayo-based salads.
posted by mumimor at 8:33 AM on June 12, 2021 [1 favorite]
Also, the 1980's style fillings I mentioned above, that I have a kind of nostalgia for, are typically mayo-based salads.
posted by mumimor at 8:33 AM on June 12, 2021 [1 favorite]
Eating a bagel is utilitarian. When I indulge in a croissant, it's a pause from real life to enjoy the entire experience.
posted by heathrowga at 8:43 AM on June 12, 2021 [8 favorites]
posted by heathrowga at 8:43 AM on June 12, 2021 [8 favorites]
Here in Switzerland croissants are called gipfeli and people absolutely pick them up for colleagues and take them into work. They come plain or filled with almond, nuts or chocolate. You do need a napkin or paper towel to eat them and wipe you fingers.
The only reason you can buy bagels here is because there are enough expats who want them. You can’t get them in the bakery, only in the bread section of large supermarkets.
posted by koahiatamadl at 8:43 AM on June 12, 2021 [4 favorites]
The only reason you can buy bagels here is because there are enough expats who want them. You can’t get them in the bakery, only in the bread section of large supermarkets.
posted by koahiatamadl at 8:43 AM on June 12, 2021 [4 favorites]
Hard to find an actual real croissant (as opposed to a crescent roll or the many doughy rolls that are labeled croissant)
Years ago a french baker set up shop in north seattle, he'd brought his oven with him. At first I did not quite understand just what it was but so many layers, crisp, tasty. Just amazing. An actual croissant is many folded layers of very thin dough. A tiny bit of jelly is just right.
posted by sammyo at 8:51 AM on June 12, 2021 [2 favorites]
Years ago a french baker set up shop in north seattle, he'd brought his oven with him. At first I did not quite understand just what it was but so many layers, crisp, tasty. Just amazing. An actual croissant is many folded layers of very thin dough. A tiny bit of jelly is just right.
posted by sammyo at 8:51 AM on June 12, 2021 [2 favorites]
I think American office culture is often that you don’t stop for meals, so things have to be utilitarian, it’s rude to have fish as it smells, etc. So your qualifications listed above make sense.
I work with an Armenian who works really hard. But when it’s time for a meal, even at the office, he carefully prepares a plate, moves everything, sits down with a napkin, and concentrates on eating. In that context flaky bits are fine, plus you assemble fresh.
Having a croissant jambon in Montreal - at the train station! - should convince anyone it can do a sandwich. The trick is to have everything really fresh and the ham to be high quality and smoky. Mmmmmm. Of course Montreal bagels also give them a run for your money. I’m in favour of both.
My favourite thing to do with a slightly stale croissant is sauté mushrooms, slice it open, put them in, and then make a bechamel sauce and put it over - a kind of modified croque monsieur. So good.
posted by warriorqueen at 9:01 AM on June 12, 2021 [19 favorites]
I work with an Armenian who works really hard. But when it’s time for a meal, even at the office, he carefully prepares a plate, moves everything, sits down with a napkin, and concentrates on eating. In that context flaky bits are fine, plus you assemble fresh.
Having a croissant jambon in Montreal - at the train station! - should convince anyone it can do a sandwich. The trick is to have everything really fresh and the ham to be high quality and smoky. Mmmmmm. Of course Montreal bagels also give them a run for your money. I’m in favour of both.
My favourite thing to do with a slightly stale croissant is sauté mushrooms, slice it open, put them in, and then make a bechamel sauce and put it over - a kind of modified croque monsieur. So good.
posted by warriorqueen at 9:01 AM on June 12, 2021 [19 favorites]
Why would you ever choose a croissant over a bagel?
A bad croissant is better than a bad bagel. But as people have said, they're really two super different things. Usually a bagel is a vehicle for other things: cream cheese, lox, an entire sandwich. Croissants mostly are meant to be enjoyed on their own, maybe alongside a cup of coffee or other delicious beverage. And, as others have said, you pick off little bites, you don't bring a croissant to your mouth, you tear off little pieces. I like them both, but I don't really see them in the same circumstances. Definitely in an office setting bagels are more hardy and make more sense. But in a relaxing with some coffee in a cafe somewhere, a good croissant is sublime.
posted by jessamyn at 9:03 AM on June 12, 2021 [15 favorites]
A bad croissant is better than a bad bagel. But as people have said, they're really two super different things. Usually a bagel is a vehicle for other things: cream cheese, lox, an entire sandwich. Croissants mostly are meant to be enjoyed on their own, maybe alongside a cup of coffee or other delicious beverage. And, as others have said, you pick off little bites, you don't bring a croissant to your mouth, you tear off little pieces. I like them both, but I don't really see them in the same circumstances. Definitely in an office setting bagels are more hardy and make more sense. But in a relaxing with some coffee in a cafe somewhere, a good croissant is sublime.
posted by jessamyn at 9:03 AM on June 12, 2021 [15 favorites]
Croissants really go with café culture - they are so delicate they don't travel well; if you do bring them home you'll want to eat them as soon as you get home. There is a notable difference between a croissant that is eight hours old and a fresh one. Normally you eat them where you buy them. Croissant do require more attention to eat properly compared to bagels. You'll make a mess if you bite them. You normally tear pieces off and eat those. You're not supposed to eat them at your desk while typing, or eat them while paying attention to something else. That would be a waste of the effort and ingredients that went into making them. You're not supposed to eat them hurriedly either. Instead you are supposed to be sitting down, possibly with some other people who are relaxing and take your time eating them. They just don't go with a hectic culture that demands you rush around multitasking.
Bagels, like croissants, are also normally too stale to be anything but nasty by eight hours after they come out of the oven. Sure they sell croissant and bagels at your grocery store, but you're buying the equivalent to a microwavable cardboard tray of frozen pasta in cornstarch sauce that claims to be fettuccine Alfredo. Nothing wrong with them when you need a hit of quick starch but you don't really want to notice what you are eating, you just want to get them down without questioning your life choices. The fine print on a grocery story bakery croissant ( fresh baked on the premises!) might just include palm oil and/or butter flavouring. Don't think about it.
posted by Jane the Brown at 9:05 AM on June 12, 2021 [6 favorites]
Bagels, like croissants, are also normally too stale to be anything but nasty by eight hours after they come out of the oven. Sure they sell croissant and bagels at your grocery store, but you're buying the equivalent to a microwavable cardboard tray of frozen pasta in cornstarch sauce that claims to be fettuccine Alfredo. Nothing wrong with them when you need a hit of quick starch but you don't really want to notice what you are eating, you just want to get them down without questioning your life choices. The fine print on a grocery story bakery croissant ( fresh baked on the premises!) might just include palm oil and/or butter flavouring. Don't think about it.
posted by Jane the Brown at 9:05 AM on June 12, 2021 [6 favorites]
The company I work for does breakfast meetings and seminars with clients. They serve croissants and other pastries along with fresh fruit, cheese, fruit juices and coffee. Not bagels, as bagels aren't really considered breakfast food in these parts (maybe they are in the US). Luckily our office is right next to a market full of fancy bakeries and other food vendors, so needless to say, it's proven quite popular.
posted by pipeski at 9:09 AM on June 12, 2021
posted by pipeski at 9:09 AM on June 12, 2021
I can get good, not great, croissants here in Sweden. I cannot get a good bagel to save my life. Apart from that, I am happy to eat either of those things because they are delicious. I am an oddball because I would never put butter on a bagel but I am delighted to put butter on a warm croissant with a bit of jam on the side. For many years they were my luxury breakfast when I was having a luxury breakfast. I guess I’m shameless. I don’t care about the crumbs. That’s why the universe gave us napkins. I am thrilled to live in a world where, for many people, you don’t have to choose one over the other. Both exist and are tasty. Isn’t that enough?
posted by Bella Donna at 9:20 AM on June 12, 2021 [7 favorites]
posted by Bella Donna at 9:20 AM on June 12, 2021 [7 favorites]
Because many people, in many circumstances, value deliciousness over sturdiness as a desirable quality in their food.
(Also, as others have said, if you don’t understand why people would ever choose to eat a croissant, I can only assume you’ve never eaten a decent croissant. So, soooo good. And I put my hands up to being a butter-adder - there can never be too much butter.)
posted by penguin pie at 9:20 AM on June 12, 2021 [13 favorites]
(Also, as others have said, if you don’t understand why people would ever choose to eat a croissant, I can only assume you’ve never eaten a decent croissant. So, soooo good. And I put my hands up to being a butter-adder - there can never be too much butter.)
posted by penguin pie at 9:20 AM on June 12, 2021 [13 favorites]
The fine print on a grocery story bakery croissant should have flaked off the moment the writing/printing implement has moved past that spot. If it doesn't, it's not worth eating.
posted by Stoneshop at 9:21 AM on June 12, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by Stoneshop at 9:21 AM on June 12, 2021 [1 favorite]
I think American office culture is often that you don’t stop for meals, so things have to be utilitarian, it’s rude to have fish as it smells, etc. So your qualifications listed above make sense.
I work with an Armenian who works really hard. But when it’s time for a meal, even at the office, he carefully prepares a plate, moves everything, sits down with a napkin, and concentrates on eating. In that context flaky bits are fine, plus you assemble fresh.
Oh, I didn't think of this, since I'm in Europe. Obviously, here one takes breaks for meals. Depending on the country, everything stops at some defined hour, and you either go out or to your workplace cafeteria where you have a meal that is suitable. At my workplace, there are really good options for bringing ones own lunch: there is a full kitchen with all the tableware, so I'm not eating out of a bag. There are also several cafeterias, streetfood options, and a faculty dining room. Breaks are 30-90 minutes, some places even two hours, giving time for a nap.
Lunch meetings are an option, but then you will mostly still have a lunch setting, with plates and knives and forks. Sandwich lunches can happen, and some include bagels, but IMO they are always a sign of desperation and/or lack of control.
That said, lunch is not unproductive, often lunch is where one has time for some freestyle riffing with colleagues, thinking of new ideas, or solving problems that felt difficult in more formal settings.
posted by mumimor at 9:21 AM on June 12, 2021 [4 favorites]
I work with an Armenian who works really hard. But when it’s time for a meal, even at the office, he carefully prepares a plate, moves everything, sits down with a napkin, and concentrates on eating. In that context flaky bits are fine, plus you assemble fresh.
Oh, I didn't think of this, since I'm in Europe. Obviously, here one takes breaks for meals. Depending on the country, everything stops at some defined hour, and you either go out or to your workplace cafeteria where you have a meal that is suitable. At my workplace, there are really good options for bringing ones own lunch: there is a full kitchen with all the tableware, so I'm not eating out of a bag. There are also several cafeterias, streetfood options, and a faculty dining room. Breaks are 30-90 minutes, some places even two hours, giving time for a nap.
Lunch meetings are an option, but then you will mostly still have a lunch setting, with plates and knives and forks. Sandwich lunches can happen, and some include bagels, but IMO they are always a sign of desperation and/or lack of control.
That said, lunch is not unproductive, often lunch is where one has time for some freestyle riffing with colleagues, thinking of new ideas, or solving problems that felt difficult in more formal settings.
posted by mumimor at 9:21 AM on June 12, 2021 [4 favorites]
One of the few things I miss about working on location is the bakery in my building served a rotating selection of sweet and savory croissants, which made for a cheap lunch. A little ham and gruyère wrapped in a flaky croissant, mmmm.
Apart from good lox and all the trimmings, I'd definitely choose a croissant over a bagel.
posted by emelenjr at 10:01 AM on June 12, 2021 [2 favorites]
Apart from good lox and all the trimmings, I'd definitely choose a croissant over a bagel.
posted by emelenjr at 10:01 AM on June 12, 2021 [2 favorites]
Bagels are usually too much for me. First off too firm for an egg sandwich. I don't want my yoke getting squeezed in the bagel vice and squishing out the sides. Second, the bread to egg/cheese ration it too great.
Third, I feel like a bear tearing flesh off it's prey eating a bagel.
I will eat a bagel when I need a bunch of calories because I have a day that I know I wont be able to have lunch but I have little time, but it's a practical decision, not a prefered food.
posted by ReluctantViking at 10:05 AM on June 12, 2021 [3 favorites]
Third, I feel like a bear tearing flesh off it's prey eating a bagel.
I will eat a bagel when I need a bunch of calories because I have a day that I know I wont be able to have lunch but I have little time, but it's a practical decision, not a prefered food.
posted by ReluctantViking at 10:05 AM on June 12, 2021 [3 favorites]
The Bun Culture War is just starting in the Irish Midlands. Last weekend, our post-town [pop ~800] saw the opening of a croissant and kombucha store. My daughter is visiting so I went in yesterday to sample the patisserie: each one served still almost warm in a little paper bag and all were mmmm good. The gauntlet is down, bagelworld.
To know more about Why Croissant? you could do worse than read Felicity Cloake's One More Croissant For the Road.
posted by BobTheScientist at 10:22 AM on June 12, 2021 [4 favorites]
To know more about Why Croissant? you could do worse than read Felicity Cloake's One More Croissant For the Road.
posted by BobTheScientist at 10:22 AM on June 12, 2021 [4 favorites]
Sneer if you must, but I prefer my chicken salad on a croissant, even an indifferent one, above all other delivery vehicles. I can't imagine a chicken salad sandwich working well on a bagel, but I also can't imagine a hefty schmear of cream cheese working on a croissant, either.
In short, why not both?
posted by Preserver at 10:43 AM on June 12, 2021 [7 favorites]
In short, why not both?
posted by Preserver at 10:43 AM on June 12, 2021 [7 favorites]
If people brought croissants to a business meeting, would everyone have crumbs and grease on their laps the whole time?
Yes? But this is like complaining a bacon cheeseburger would be impractical at a business meeting because it's too messy.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 11:09 AM on June 12, 2021 [2 favorites]
Yes? But this is like complaining a bacon cheeseburger would be impractical at a business meeting because it's too messy.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 11:09 AM on June 12, 2021 [2 favorites]
mumimor: Sandwich lunches can happen, (...) but IMO they are always a sign of desperation and/or lack of control.
Or Dutchness.
posted by Too-Ticky at 11:20 AM on June 12, 2021 [6 favorites]
Or Dutchness.
posted by Too-Ticky at 11:20 AM on June 12, 2021 [6 favorites]
Okay I'm taking Too-Ticky's post as an excuse to link to one of my favourite YouTube videos about lunch ever: The Norwegian art of the packed lunch - Matpakke. Although to my knowledge I have no ancestors from Norway (from The Netherlands, yes), my mother must have channeled this tradition.
posted by warriorqueen at 11:23 AM on June 12, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by warriorqueen at 11:23 AM on June 12, 2021 [3 favorites]
I feel like this question was written from a planet I don't live on. Since when is food a zero-sum game, consumed solely for its structural properties? If it was so, why powdered donuts? Why hardshell tacos?
People like bagels because they taste good, not because they are the most structurally stable surface for food to sit on--if that was the case, there wouldn't be a hole in the middle, and they'd be less tough so as not to squish out gooey ingredients when you bite into them.
People like croissants because they taste good, not because they are the most practical food for eating in a business meeting. They're great with jam, or with some tender/toothsome ingredients that don't interfere too much with the buttery texture. (My local mostly-bagel-sandwich place makes a croissant sandwich with some sprouts, veggies, and a aioli-ish dressing. It's great.) They're buttery enough that I tend to think of them as more of a sometimes treat, but I can't imagine eating a bagel every day either--they're pretty dense.
posted by tchemgrrl at 11:28 AM on June 12, 2021 [39 favorites]
People like bagels because they taste good, not because they are the most structurally stable surface for food to sit on--if that was the case, there wouldn't be a hole in the middle, and they'd be less tough so as not to squish out gooey ingredients when you bite into them.
People like croissants because they taste good, not because they are the most practical food for eating in a business meeting. They're great with jam, or with some tender/toothsome ingredients that don't interfere too much with the buttery texture. (My local mostly-bagel-sandwich place makes a croissant sandwich with some sprouts, veggies, and a aioli-ish dressing. It's great.) They're buttery enough that I tend to think of them as more of a sometimes treat, but I can't imagine eating a bagel every day either--they're pretty dense.
posted by tchemgrrl at 11:28 AM on June 12, 2021 [39 favorites]
Croissants are traditionally eaten for breakfast dunked into a cafe au lait (milky coffee) the dunking helps eliminate the crumbs everywhere problem. Croissants should be eaten fresh, ie within a few hours of coming out of the oven which helps a lot with the crumb problem as they are still warm and softer and shatter less and eaten without condiments or toppings as well the condiments would come off in the coffee.
They also taste really good with chocolate in as a treat and as we non French savages like to eat them as the casing for everything from Chicken salad, or my favorite with brie and jam, but that is not how or why the croissant first developed or how they were intended to be eaten.
If bagels where offered at a business meeting I was at I wouldn't have one even though I love them (and all baked goods) they are way too chewy and you have to masticate them for ages and I don't want to look like a cow or have my mouth if called on in the meeting. So different strokes for different folks.
I honestly think the real question here is why do Americans eat donuts for breakfast?
posted by wwax at 11:40 AM on June 12, 2021 [2 favorites]
They also taste really good with chocolate in as a treat and as we non French savages like to eat them as the casing for everything from Chicken salad, or my favorite with brie and jam, but that is not how or why the croissant first developed or how they were intended to be eaten.
If bagels where offered at a business meeting I was at I wouldn't have one even though I love them (and all baked goods) they are way too chewy and you have to masticate them for ages and I don't want to look like a cow or have my mouth if called on in the meeting. So different strokes for different folks.
I honestly think the real question here is why do Americans eat donuts for breakfast?
posted by wwax at 11:40 AM on June 12, 2021 [2 favorites]
Lunch at work, BP*: most direct colleagues would bring a lunch box from home, some a pack of sandwiches or a freshly-made half-baguette from a vendor at the train station. For a while I was buying wholemeal buns, cheese and meat at a quick-market there, assembling them at lunchtime, but also an espresso plus a fresh croissant for immediate consumption at another vendor.
Lunch meetings, especially the longer ones, not the "half an hour squeezed in around noon due to availability of meeting room and participants", would often have an assortment of pre-made club sandwiches and buns/rolls, coffee/tea (of course), milk/buttermilk (a Dutch lunch without those? inconceivable) and fruit. There were also lunch talks on a variety of subjects, with trays of pre-made buns/rolls available for the audience and whoever passed through that area afterwards if there were leftovers.
* Before Pandemic, not British Petroleum.
posted by Stoneshop at 11:53 AM on June 12, 2021
Lunch meetings, especially the longer ones, not the "half an hour squeezed in around noon due to availability of meeting room and participants", would often have an assortment of pre-made club sandwiches and buns/rolls, coffee/tea (of course), milk/buttermilk (a Dutch lunch without those? inconceivable) and fruit. There were also lunch talks on a variety of subjects, with trays of pre-made buns/rolls available for the audience and whoever passed through that area afterwards if there were leftovers.
* Before Pandemic, not British Petroleum.
posted by Stoneshop at 11:53 AM on June 12, 2021
It's just bread man.
posted by Max Power at 12:09 PM on June 12, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by Max Power at 12:09 PM on June 12, 2021 [1 favorite]
I’m an American Jew so by all rightS should prefer bagels, but I’d choose croissants over bagels for the same reason I’m a waffles-over-pancakes person: they’re more interesting texturally.
posted by chaiyai at 12:11 PM on June 12, 2021
posted by chaiyai at 12:11 PM on June 12, 2021
I'm French, and croissants are very much an office thing for us. The last two places I worked at before Covid, you were expected to bring croissants for everyone whenever you went on holidays, or when you had fucked up and created additional work for your colleagues, and sometimes just for the hell of it. It does require coordination during the summer or before Christmas, otherwise three different people bring croissants and you get croissants overload.
Generally, we grab one during the morning break, share a coffee while eating a croissant (or a pain au chocolat, or a brioche, or a chouquette). Yes, it makes a mess, but you eat it while leaning forward, so the crumbs don't fall on your clothes, and you wipe/wash your hands after.
posted by snakeling at 1:06 PM on June 12, 2021 [11 favorites]
Generally, we grab one during the morning break, share a coffee while eating a croissant (or a pain au chocolat, or a brioche, or a chouquette). Yes, it makes a mess, but you eat it while leaning forward, so the crumbs don't fall on your clothes, and you wipe/wash your hands after.
posted by snakeling at 1:06 PM on June 12, 2021 [11 favorites]
My 2 cents is that I know someone who went to France from the US and reported back to me that original croissants, the way they were designed, are just 100% better in every way from the cheapo abominations we get here, just like everything else the things we get here are pale imitations of their original selves. They're not supposed to be dry, crackly, plain bread. For one thing they're made with a lot more butter and are just a lot better in their original form.
posted by bleep at 1:15 PM on June 12, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by bleep at 1:15 PM on June 12, 2021 [3 favorites]
I prefer buttery croissants or biscuits for breakfast sandwiches over dense, hard bagels. An egg and cheese on a buttery toasted croissant is lovely, even if it's slightly more messy. I was introduced to this concept by the line cooks at the dining hall during the summer in college, in the spirit of, if you like this (bagel breakfast sandwiches), you'll really love this.
posted by limeonaire at 1:20 PM on June 12, 2021
posted by limeonaire at 1:20 PM on June 12, 2021
Also I would question your assumption that any one kind of bread is naturally superior to another or that one kind of bread handles all use cases. The reason there's 100+ kinds of bread in the world is because they perform different functions, they hit peoples' bodies differently, and people have their own likes and dislikes.
posted by bleep at 1:29 PM on June 12, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by bleep at 1:29 PM on June 12, 2021 [6 favorites]
Without in any way impugning the delights of a croissant (reading this post has reminded me I need to get over to Patisserie Claude tout suite), I'm depressed to hear the way so many of you describe bagels as dense, hard, etc. The ones we got from a Midwestern supermarket when I was a kid were nothing to write home about, but I'd assumed that, as with most foods I had as a kid, the mass market had upped its game since then. NYCers enthusing over their bagels is an awful cliche but maybe it exists for a reason?
posted by praemunire at 1:34 PM on June 12, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by praemunire at 1:34 PM on June 12, 2021 [1 favorite]
As the great-grandaughter of a baker from Bialystok whose obituary actually stated, "He was an apprentice baker in Russia and after coming to America, specialized in bagel and pumpernickel," I feel too passionately about this topic to enter into the discussion.
However, I will say that the thread taught me that the British usage of the word stodgy differs from the one I know. Had only one person used it, I'd have continued to roll my eyes, but once the second used it, I went to look it up. TIL.
posted by The Wrong Kind of Cheese at 2:05 PM on June 12, 2021 [4 favorites]
However, I will say that the thread taught me that the British usage of the word stodgy differs from the one I know. Had only one person used it, I'd have continued to roll my eyes, but once the second used it, I went to look it up. TIL.
posted by The Wrong Kind of Cheese at 2:05 PM on June 12, 2021 [4 favorites]
I don't make croissants, but I do make a few types of viennoiserie (the family of yeasted laminated breads that include croissants and cornetti) at home for special occasions. And while I can't say "I am from a croissant-eating culture," one particular yeasted laminated pastry* is a heritage recipe in my family, and is one of the first recipes my grandmother taught me when I was little.
The particular dough I make takes at least two days. It's one of very few recipes I make that require that amount of time and effort. You can slow the process down, but it can't be sped up past a certain point. Croissants are similar.
So when I eat an excellent croissant/similar part of my enjoyment is appreciating what went into making it.
There are times in my life when for whatever set of reasons, I prioritize function over all else. Food go in food hole: done.
Croissants and their cousins are for other times. Even if it's only a brief interlude on a workday. (To be fair, a really good bagel slots in here, too. I just didn't grow up making them.)
*it does not have a specific name that I know, or I'd link to a similar recipe.
posted by Laetiporus at 2:06 PM on June 12, 2021 [4 favorites]
The particular dough I make takes at least two days. It's one of very few recipes I make that require that amount of time and effort. You can slow the process down, but it can't be sped up past a certain point. Croissants are similar.
So when I eat an excellent croissant/similar part of my enjoyment is appreciating what went into making it.
There are times in my life when for whatever set of reasons, I prioritize function over all else. Food go in food hole: done.
Croissants and their cousins are for other times. Even if it's only a brief interlude on a workday. (To be fair, a really good bagel slots in here, too. I just didn't grow up making them.)
*it does not have a specific name that I know, or I'd link to a similar recipe.
posted by Laetiporus at 2:06 PM on June 12, 2021 [4 favorites]
If people brought croissants to a business meeting, would everyone have crumbs and grease on their laps the whole time?
If you bring croissants (or indeed any other flaky pastry option), you also bring napkins, or at least some kitchen roll to serve the same purpose. Basic meeting etiquette.
I'm not going to diss bagels as I've had some seriously excellent bagels, and they and croissants occupy different food niches, but I can only read this question as a cry for help. Someone needs to get a good croissant to bbqturtle as a matter of urgency.
posted by Vortisaur at 2:10 PM on June 12, 2021 [10 favorites]
If you bring croissants (or indeed any other flaky pastry option), you also bring napkins, or at least some kitchen roll to serve the same purpose. Basic meeting etiquette.
I'm not going to diss bagels as I've had some seriously excellent bagels, and they and croissants occupy different food niches, but I can only read this question as a cry for help. Someone needs to get a good croissant to bbqturtle as a matter of urgency.
posted by Vortisaur at 2:10 PM on June 12, 2021 [10 favorites]
Like some others, I too find this question strange, and it just goes to show how our relationship with the same foods can be wildly different. For example I, a very devoted life-long bagel eater, would never say that a bagel's flavor mostly comes from the toppings. This is in part due to the influence of my dad, and American Jew with a strong disdain for most toppings as inventions of the goyim.
But anyway, I'd say the main distinction btw croissants and bagels is that one is a pastry, the other a type of bread. Like most breads, a fresh bagel can be fairly well preserved in the freezer until it's ready to be eaten, so while nothing compares to a still-warm-from-the-oven bagel, buying them by the dozen is fine. But croissants, like most (all?) pastries, really need to be eaten soon after baking. It's a special treat, not something you just have in your pantry. While I enjoy a good pain au chocolate or a cheese/meat croissant sandwich, like a good bagel, a good croissant is delightful on its own.
posted by coffeecat at 2:11 PM on June 12, 2021 [6 favorites]
But anyway, I'd say the main distinction btw croissants and bagels is that one is a pastry, the other a type of bread. Like most breads, a fresh bagel can be fairly well preserved in the freezer until it's ready to be eaten, so while nothing compares to a still-warm-from-the-oven bagel, buying them by the dozen is fine. But croissants, like most (all?) pastries, really need to be eaten soon after baking. It's a special treat, not something you just have in your pantry. While I enjoy a good pain au chocolate or a cheese/meat croissant sandwich, like a good bagel, a good croissant is delightful on its own.
posted by coffeecat at 2:11 PM on June 12, 2021 [6 favorites]
Response by poster: inspired by all your feedback, I drove to the nearby french-ish bakery. I ate their last croissant, while my wife drove down the highway toward additional errands in the car.
I get it, it was flakey, buttery, and delicious. It was hard to contain the crumbs. I tried to peel it and eat it bit by bit, but by the end, I found myself putting large pieces in my mouth.
I totally get what you guys were saying! If I actually (ever) had time to sit and eat it and enjoy it quietly, it would be amazing. But... I still wanted a good toasted bagel more.
Thank everyone for all of your answers!
posted by bbqturtle at 2:34 PM on June 12, 2021 [22 favorites]
I get it, it was flakey, buttery, and delicious. It was hard to contain the crumbs. I tried to peel it and eat it bit by bit, but by the end, I found myself putting large pieces in my mouth.
I totally get what you guys were saying! If I actually (ever) had time to sit and eat it and enjoy it quietly, it would be amazing. But... I still wanted a good toasted bagel more.
Thank everyone for all of your answers!
posted by bbqturtle at 2:34 PM on June 12, 2021 [22 favorites]
croissants are the mangos of the pastry genre
posted by angrycat at 2:35 PM on June 12, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by angrycat at 2:35 PM on June 12, 2021 [4 favorites]
Coffee and croissants with marzipan topping is unutterably* good.
*in the sense that you are not going to be spending a lot of precious mouth-time on words when one of those babies is sitting on a plate in front of you.
posted by jamjam at 2:53 PM on June 12, 2021 [1 favorite]
*in the sense that you are not going to be spending a lot of precious mouth-time on words when one of those babies is sitting on a plate in front of you.
posted by jamjam at 2:53 PM on June 12, 2021 [1 favorite]
Best answer: I'm also a french person. I would never pick between a croissant and a bagel, it's just not the same thing, for me a bagel is like bread (a bit boring by itself) while a croissant is more like a doughnut, you don't add anything to it and it's bad for you even though it's delicious. Yes, It makes a bit of a mess and get your hands greasy so If you eat one at a business meeting you usually have a napkin, you eat it over the table/desk, and take care of the mess with your napkin, pretty simple. They are served in a bag if you order multiples, or wrapped in a piece of paper if you order just the one. Bonus : If you're ever in Paris, this is the best croissant in the world, it comes from this bakery.
posted by SageLeVoid at 5:20 PM on June 12, 2021 [11 favorites]
posted by SageLeVoid at 5:20 PM on June 12, 2021 [11 favorites]
Hmmmm. You know, most times I've had to choose between the two, the quality of bagel was roughly the same as the quality of baked good.
Especially since I started losing weight, I go for the butter over the carbs - so if I can snag a soggy, flat croissant over a tough, crumbly bagel I will.
But when I go to Stovetop or another 3rd wave coffee shop, I'll choose the bagel over the croissant, usually with butter instead of cream cheese because I'm stingy. The reason? Because that damn croissant is such a mess.
To all the folks saying they've never had to choose between the two - I'm surprised. They are frequently found together.
posted by rebent at 6:08 PM on June 12, 2021 [2 favorites]
Especially since I started losing weight, I go for the butter over the carbs - so if I can snag a soggy, flat croissant over a tough, crumbly bagel I will.
But when I go to Stovetop or another 3rd wave coffee shop, I'll choose the bagel over the croissant, usually with butter instead of cream cheese because I'm stingy. The reason? Because that damn croissant is such a mess.
To all the folks saying they've never had to choose between the two - I'm surprised. They are frequently found together.
posted by rebent at 6:08 PM on June 12, 2021 [2 favorites]
Croissants are divine, but bad croissants (which are unfortunately most croissants often served on the the Continental Breakfast bar or via supermarket/Costco style bulk office platter) are truly abysmal.
Most bagels are wholly medicocre slabs of bread.
If you're buying Croissants from a bakery--even a bakery in nowheresville-- in my experience you are more likely to get a decent croissant than you are to get a decent bagel.
But, look, if you're just just using either as a sandwich vehicle, it probably just comes down to how much chewing you want to do and how much you want "bread-iness" to be a factor.
For the record, English Muffins are also delicious, especially if you can find them fresh at a local bakery. I think that 99% of the reason why I was a chubby kid was the fact that my mother always had the fresh ones around and I used to eat them as sandwiches with homemade pesto and cream cheese. And, y'all. Delicious.
posted by thivaia at 7:36 PM on June 12, 2021
Most bagels are wholly medicocre slabs of bread.
If you're buying Croissants from a bakery--even a bakery in nowheresville-- in my experience you are more likely to get a decent croissant than you are to get a decent bagel.
But, look, if you're just just using either as a sandwich vehicle, it probably just comes down to how much chewing you want to do and how much you want "bread-iness" to be a factor.
For the record, English Muffins are also delicious, especially if you can find them fresh at a local bakery. I think that 99% of the reason why I was a chubby kid was the fact that my mother always had the fresh ones around and I used to eat them as sandwiches with homemade pesto and cream cheese. And, y'all. Delicious.
posted by thivaia at 7:36 PM on June 12, 2021
Bonus : If you're ever in Paris, this is the best croissant in the world, it comes from this bakery.
It's been a decade and I still dream of those croissants.
posted by Special Agent Dale Cooper at 8:59 PM on June 12, 2021 [1 favorite]
It's been a decade and I still dream of those croissants.
posted by Special Agent Dale Cooper at 8:59 PM on June 12, 2021 [1 favorite]
If you feel a desire to butter your croissant, it's probably not a very good croissant.
I'd argue it's less of a foodstuff in the traditional sense than an experience/a miracle of engineering. If I'm starving in the morning I usually won't opt for a croissant, since properly made they're mostly just butter and air.
Having worked in French offices for about a decade I can also attest that they are nearly ubiquitous: people bring them in on their birthday, on their last day, the first Monday in September, the day before summer hols, rainy Wednesdays, whatever.
In my experience each person has their own technique for consuming them with minimal mess (or if they're particularly bold/late for a meeting, just go all-in and pick up the detritus after). Personally I like a large 3-ply napkin, used to hold the croissant while I break off large-ish bits.
posted by peakes at 1:40 AM on June 13, 2021 [1 favorite]
I'd argue it's less of a foodstuff in the traditional sense than an experience/a miracle of engineering. If I'm starving in the morning I usually won't opt for a croissant, since properly made they're mostly just butter and air.
Having worked in French offices for about a decade I can also attest that they are nearly ubiquitous: people bring them in on their birthday, on their last day, the first Monday in September, the day before summer hols, rainy Wednesdays, whatever.
In my experience each person has their own technique for consuming them with minimal mess (or if they're particularly bold/late for a meeting, just go all-in and pick up the detritus after). Personally I like a large 3-ply napkin, used to hold the croissant while I break off large-ish bits.
posted by peakes at 1:40 AM on June 13, 2021 [1 favorite]
Croissants are french, and, at least in theory, the French pay to food attention while eating, and do not bring croissants to meetings. Most food is too messy and distracting for meetings, except maybe egg salad sandwiches, and they smell egg-y and distracting. This is why people bring donuts, which are not very messy, mostly.
There is no reason to compare bagels and croissants; croissants are delicious pastry, bagels are delicious bread.
posted by theora55 at 8:07 AM on June 13, 2021
There is no reason to compare bagels and croissants; croissants are delicious pastry, bagels are delicious bread.
posted by theora55 at 8:07 AM on June 13, 2021
I love bagels and I love croissants.
I can stuff an entire Starbucks croissant into my mouth while on my way to work without so much as a second thought.
I cannot do this with a bagel. Alas.
posted by Hermione Granger at 5:30 AM on June 14, 2021
I can stuff an entire Starbucks croissant into my mouth while on my way to work without so much as a second thought.
I cannot do this with a bagel. Alas.
posted by Hermione Granger at 5:30 AM on June 14, 2021
What a great question/thread.
Aside from the great answers above -
I'd rather have a croissant any day, period. One reason is the fat vs carb content: croissants obviously have more fat than bagels, while bagels are a dense carb bomb. I find that I feel fuller and more satisfied from a croissant, while a bagel often is a big part of a carb-induced insulin spike/nap. I'm not particularly low-carb fanatic, but I do like to keep an even keel, energy-wise, so I generally avoid eating an entire bagel for that reason alone.
posted by Dashy at 7:12 AM on June 14, 2021 [2 favorites]
Aside from the great answers above -
I'd rather have a croissant any day, period. One reason is the fat vs carb content: croissants obviously have more fat than bagels, while bagels are a dense carb bomb. I find that I feel fuller and more satisfied from a croissant, while a bagel often is a big part of a carb-induced insulin spike/nap. I'm not particularly low-carb fanatic, but I do like to keep an even keel, energy-wise, so I generally avoid eating an entire bagel for that reason alone.
posted by Dashy at 7:12 AM on June 14, 2021 [2 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by Jacen at 8:03 AM on June 12, 2021 [1 favorite]