Comments on: Where can I get more info on the Toldot Yeshua?

Question: Where can I get more info on the Toldot Yeshua?

Kattullus — Fri, 31 Mar 2006 19:24:18 -0800

Michael Wex, in his Born to Kvetch, mentions a book called Toldot Yeshua (or possibly Toldos Yeshua), a medieval Yiddish manuscript that proposes that Jesus was a parlor trick artist, Mary an unclean woman and that Peter was a devout Jew that diverted Christianity out of Judaism (or something along those lines). Now, I'd quite like to learn more, ideally reading the book myself. Do any of you have any more info on it? Does there exist an English translation?

By: unmake

unmake — Fri, 31 Mar 2006 20:20:17 -0800

This page spells it Toledot Yeshua, which seems to turn up more hits.

There might be an english translation here (unsure, as I don't have a PDF reader installed).

By: unmake

unmake — Fri, 31 Mar 2006 20:33:42 -0800

Also: A mention in Wikipedia

Book where most people probably came across this idea first: "Jesus the Magician".

There are some interesting Elvis parallels to be made..

By: needs more cowbell

needs more cowbell — Sat, 01 Apr 2006 03:56:32 -0800

From the Wikipedia article that unmake linked to, it looks like there are two texts: Toldot Yeshu ("yeshu" being a Hebrew acronym for "yimach shemo v'zichro," which means "his name and memory should be erased") written in the Middle Ages by rabbis who did *not* believe in Jesus as a messiah, and Toldot Yeshua ("Yeshua" being Hebrew for "Joshua"), written in 1883 by Yechiel-Tzvi Lichtenstein-Herschensohn, who *did* believe in Jesus as a messiah. (link goes directly to PDF article about Rabbi Lichtenstein, where I got the above info.)

The text of the former, medieval text may be here. Some other names for the text and some info about why it may be hard to find are here, a page clearly written by someone pissed off about the existence of such writings/ideas.

By: needs more cowbell

needs more cowbell — Sat, 01 Apr 2006 04:04:51 -0800

Also, other transliterations of toldot (which means "generations") could include "toledoth" or "tolodoth" or "toldoth."

By: needs more cowbell

needs more cowbell — Sat, 01 Apr 2006 04:07:24 -0800

I should add that the pdf I linked to says that R' Lichtenstein's work, Toldot Yeshua, was a response to (and a bit of a pun on) Toldot Yeshu.

By: Kattullus

Kattullus — Sat, 01 Apr 2006 08:46:27 -0800

Thank you unmake and needs more cowbell! This totally made my day :)

By: greatgefilte

greatgefilte — Sat, 01 Apr 2006 08:49:48 -0800

Wow, who needs The Da Vinci Code when they've got Toldot Yeshu? I remember being told a lot of the details back when I was a wee lad in yeshiva; it's nice to finally have a source. Good job, needs more cowbell!

By: WCityMike

WCityMike — Sat, 01 Apr 2006 17:30:28 -0800

Let's not forget this Family Guy segment.