Comments on: How to get a landlord to cough up for bar work done?

Question: How to get a landlord to cough up for bar work done?

sixball — Thu, 30 Mar 2006 14:26:01 -0800

My girlfriend did some casual bar work and now the landlord is dodging paying her. There is no complaint on her work but she didn't get anything in writing. How can she get the money due to her?

My girlfriend is a student who started doing bar work recently to make ends meet. She was trusting (perhaps naive) enough not to sort out a contract before working. Having done several shifts without complaint, it now looks like the landlord is trying to wriggle out of paying her.

From what I've seen, I get the feeling she's not the first the landlord has pulled this scam with. The wheeze seems to be: take on someone inexperienced, spend several hours 'training them' (i.e. getting the head barman to lech over them), get them to work as many shifts as possible before they start asking about money, assiduously ignore and avoid them and hope they go away. Repeat.

This is a rough, grungy pub with no higher authority to go to. What are my options in the UK? A lot of people would walk away with a hard lesson, and probably have. I'd like to give the landlord a lesson too.

By: acoutu

acoutu — Thu, 30 Mar 2006 14:38:56 -0800

Send a demand letter. Then contact your employment standards office. Verbal agreements are legally binding in many jurisdictions and most common law jurisdictions would interpret that any work is done with expectation of pay. Keep careful records and timelines for everything. Send the letter with signature required. Maybe use a different return address so they don't know it's her.

By: grouse

grouse — Thu, 30 Mar 2006 14:45:46 -0800

I would think your local Citizens Advice Bureau would be helpful with this sort of thing—I'd trust them more than random strangers on the internets. And if you do want help from random strangers on the internets, those at uk.legal.moderated will be more knowledgable than those here I would imagine. All that said, here is my take:

A verbal contract is still a contract, and the employer has breached it. He will have a very hard time arguing that they agreed that she would do the work without being paid the minimum wage. Your girlfriend may apply to the Employment Tribunals online for her case to be heard. Don't claim unfair dismissal—I believe they can dismiss for any reason within the beginning of a term of employment. Do claim breach of contract.

If it were me I would send a letter recorded delivery to the pub owner saying that this is what I will do if I am not paid £xxx within seven days.

By: dersins

dersins — Thu, 30 Mar 2006 15:44:36 -0800

I had a friend in college (in the US) who was in a similar situation. She filed suit in small claims court, and won. I recognize that ours is a much more litigious contry than yours, but do you have the equivalent there of a small claims court where minor civil disputes are settled without legal representation?

By: grouse

grouse — Thu, 30 Mar 2006 22:02:58 -0800

do you have the equivalent there of a small claims court where minor civil disputes are settled without legal representation?

Yes, for employment cases it's called the Employment Tribunals. (Did you read the other comments?)

By: biffa

biffa — Fri, 31 Mar 2006 01:10:49 -0800

grouse: is the possibility of small claims court ruled out for a case like this? This CAB provided info seems to suggest it may be a possibility.

By: grouse

grouse — Fri, 31 Mar 2006 04:52:47 -0800

The possibility of using the small claims track (there is no separate small claims "court" in England and Wales) is definitely not ruled out. But it is fraught with a little more peril IMHO. At the outset you have to pay GBP 30 just to file, and then there is the possibility that if you lose, the winning side will be awarded costs. While there is the possibility that costs will be awarded in an Employment Tribunal, it is much less likely (for either side).

The Employment Tribunal will also be much more experienced with this kind of thing than the District Judge and will probably be ready to rule in your favor pretty quickly if it is as cut-and-dried as you suggest.

I notice there is a three month limitation to use the employment tribunals. If you are past that point then the small claims track would be a good option, although I would still acquire qualified advice first. You might also consider getting advice or mediation from ACAS.