Comments on: Sign theft deterent

Question: Sign theft deterent

falsedmitri — Mon, 19 Apr 2021 06:39:35 -0800

We have metal signs approximately 1 x 1.5 ft that are attached to chain link or barbed-wire fences with tie wire. These get stolen every so often. How to prevent this?

One thought I had was smearing petroleum jelly on the back just to make it undesirable to handle.
What ideas do you have?

By: tmdonahue

tmdonahue — Mon, 19 Apr 2021 06:48:36 -0800

What does the sign read? Something may be making the sign attractive to the people willing to take it. Maybe you could reword it.

For example, a highway department found that the sign marker for the 420 mile was repeatedly stolen. In case you don't know, "420" is for some unknown reason slang for marijuana. Eventually they changed the sign to read "419.9" and it isn't stolen anymore.

By: rockindata

rockindata — Mon, 19 Apr 2021 06:48:52 -0800

I would use security bolts and nuts and a backer bar.

By: Mitheral

Mitheral — Mon, 19 Apr 2021 06:50:28 -0800

Any idea why the signs are getting stolen? Random vandalism will be easier to deter than if the signs are desirable themselves. IE if they say "420-69 intercourse lane" good luck.

Tack weld them to the mesh.

Stainless zip ties are a lot harder to cut with side cutters than tie wire.

Or bolt them to the mesh with small ubolts that have the nuts loctited.

By: furnace.heart

furnace.heart — Mon, 19 Apr 2021 06:55:03 -0800

Can you attach them to the inside of the fence and still have them read relatively clearly?

By: falsedmitri

falsedmitri — Mon, 19 Apr 2021 06:58:09 -0800

@rockindata:
Can you go into more detail?

By: RichardP

RichardP — Mon, 19 Apr 2021 07:04:56 -0800

falsedmitri, rockindata's suggestion is basically to cut a steel flat bar into two pieces the width of your sign. Drill holes near both ends of each piece. Thread the holes and screw the sign to the backer bars with security bolts (with the sign on one side of the chain link fence and the bars on the other, or both). You can also buy security bolt / nut pairs, in which case you don't need to thread the holes in the rear backer bars.

By: wenestvedt

wenestvedt — Mon, 19 Apr 2021 07:05:23 -0800

Security bolts have non-standard heads, so an ordinary kid with ordinary tools can't remove them. The backer bar runs across the screw holes and reinforces them, so the sign can't simply be yanked off the security bolts.

By: kschang

kschang — Mon, 19 Apr 2021 07:07:26 -0800

Personally... Mount it on the OTHER side of the chainlink fence.

Yes, it'd be slightly obscured, but if they can't reach it, they can't steal it.

By: amanda

amanda — Mon, 19 Apr 2021 07:36:11 -0800

I smeared petroleum jelly on my Black Lives Matter sign and it still got stolen. I'm glad they got gunked up, though! It had been stolen before and I was tempted to wire an old (dead) car battery to it in a display of theater but never did.

By: eotvos

eotvos — Mon, 19 Apr 2021 07:36:39 -0800

Welding, hard-soldering, or riviting to a plate or some rebar on the other side of the fence will make it hard to remove without destroying it. (For you as well, of course.)

Petrolium jelly is a fun idea. You may wind up with a lot of dead insects, though. It's worth testing one for a while, in situ, first.

By: *s

*s — Mon, 19 Apr 2021 07:39:25 -0800

Adding a sign advising them that they are on camera.

By: _DB_

_DB_ — Mon, 19 Apr 2021 07:53:13 -0800

Assuming this is a target of opportunity, I'd do a backer bar/plate with rivets. It would make it a huge PITA ass for anyone to remove (yourself included) but if it's something you expect to be permanent, that's what I would do. Welding the front and back plates together would be even more secure, but most people don't have access to that kind of welding equipment - rivet kits and drill bits can be purchased at any hardware store or online and a piece of scrap metal or a manufactured metal plate shouldn't be too hard to find (most hard hardware stores I know of sell metal plates). I'd go heavy on the rivets - one on each corner, one in the center, and maybe one on the center of each edge.

By: jabah

jabah — Mon, 19 Apr 2021 08:28:23 -0800

I started using large washers and the largest pop-rivets I could find instead of metal screws to put up "No Parking" signs. It cut sign theft down to every six months instead of every two months. Also, if you have to have the signs made, have them made in bulk to get a cheaper price. I had a tall stack of signs made to replace the ones stolen by college kids.

By: aubilenon

aubilenon — Mon, 19 Apr 2021 10:45:57 -0800

...a backer bar/plate with rivets. It would make it a huge PITA ass for anyone to remove (yourself included)

It's not that hard to drill rivets out, but requiring thieves to use power tools definitely makes it a lot less convenient to steal the sign. And you're not going to be able to make it impossible to steal - just inconvenient.

My experience with security screws, btw, is that if they're not countersunk, they're pretty worthless, because you can just grab the head with some vise grips. Back in college, I used that approach to break into places I wasn't supposed to be. As one does while in college.

By: unearthed

unearthed — Mon, 19 Apr 2021 11:03:12 -0800

Completely illegal but years ago an associate wired his (frequently stolen) steel letter box to an electric fence unit. A small sign on an electric fence warning that it's an electric fence is sufficient legal cover in my country, and idiots seldom read warnings.

By: falsedmitri

falsedmitri — Mon, 19 Apr 2021 11:15:36 -0800

>>Adding a sign advising them that they are on camera.
That sign was stolen. I kid you not.

By: cgg

cgg — Mon, 19 Apr 2021 11:52:49 -0800

As someone who regretfully participated in a few sign-heists in my youth (we were bored teenagers in the middle of nowhere, sigh... For us at it least it was just the unusual / funny signs - not traffic signs or anything that could get someone hurt)

* It needs to be hard to remove. Big, rusted bolts high off the ground were a pretty good deterrent. But if a smaller person could do the work sitting on the shoulders of a taller person, or standing in the bed of a pickup, even this was solvable.
* Posts need to be securely in the ground. If not, there's not much stopping a bunch of strong kids from kicking out the post and putting the entire thing in the back of the pickup.
* Lights are good deterrents. Solar motion detection lights are bright and cost $40 on amazon. Big barking dogs can work too, but obviously not always convenient. But fun signs on dark, quiet streets in the middle of nowhere with no one around? Good luck.

By: tinker

tinker — Mon, 19 Apr 2021 12:37:29 -0800

If the sign is desirable try making it undesirable... maybe by cutting it into two irregular pieces before mounting.

~:~

An alternative to security screws would be a retaining compound on the threads before assembly. The green Loctite (609, 630, 640, etc.) is tenacious but a bit pricey... a machinist or mechanic may have a bottle you can beg a few drops from.

By: cyndigo

cyndigo — Mon, 19 Apr 2021 13:02:56 -0800

I lived on High Street. Eventually the city gave up and mounted the street sign about 20' up on a utility pole. It still got stolen, but not as often.

The origins of 420

By: Mitheral

Mitheral — Mon, 19 Apr 2021 14:34:49 -0800

Plain old red 271 loctite is sufficient. In the bolt sizes you are likely to be using it would need to be heated to come loose.

By: stormyteal

stormyteal — Mon, 19 Apr 2021 15:05:29 -0800

Unlike others that think people want the signs, I'm leaning toward people who want the METAL. Adding more metal, if it's still removable, is not going to deter someone who wants to sell the metal. Heck. They may very well just take cut the fence itself around the signs.

So, my answer? Stop feeding the bears. In other words, if at all possible - use signs that are not metal.