Gas station signs

March 30, 2006 10:14 AM

Why do (most?) American gas stations use physical, numerical signage that require manual adjustment when prices change? Wouldn't electronic signage make life easier and maybe more profitable? Is there some regulation that requires non-electronic signage?
posted by punkfloyd to grab bag (29 comments total)

That's a good thing about some years of hyper-inflation. The only mechanical-conter fuelpumps you'll find around here are in stations you would be afraid to stop in anyway...
posted by qvantamon at 10:23 AM on March 30, 2006

I assume it's as simple as the physical sign is cheaper to install. And if you already have the physical sign, it's probably a fairly large investment to move to the digital signs.

A number of newer stations, or some older gas stations in high traffic areas near interstates, do have electronic signage for pricing. So at the very least, there isn't widespread regulation requiring non-electronic signs.
posted by skynxnex at 10:24 AM on March 30, 2006

Because it'd be expensive and the prices don't change often enough?
posted by cillit bang at 10:27 AM on March 30, 2006

All of the new gas stations around here have electronic signs, so at least in NJ there aren't regulations against it. I think skynxnex is right that the stations with manually adjusted signs probably don't want to invest in electronic signs.

I'm pretty sure in NJ the prices aren't allowed to change more than once in a 24-hour period, but still climbing up there once a day seems like a pain. . . I always wonder when they change the prices, because I've never seen anyone doing it.
posted by katie at 10:31 AM on March 30, 2006

There is a gas station near me that has an LED sign. A friend of mine and I discussed this recently. A traditional sign has to be lit at night, and also you must pay someone to change the letters. Let's assume that your employees have no idle time during the day, and so if you want to have them change the sign numbers, it will cost you their hourly rate times however long it takes them, to change the numbers.

So, the LED sign runs all day. Does that cost more, or less, than what you pay to run a traditional sign at night, combined with what you pay for a person to manually change the numbers? I suspect it's either a wash or it just doesn't matter compared relative to the payroll and income of a gas station.

I suspect therefore that the reason most gas stations have traditional signs is that they are either cheaper, or the gas station already has a sign and is not going to pay to replace it.
posted by RustyBrooks at 10:34 AM on March 30, 2006

Nearly all gas station signs around here (Philadelphia suburbs) have electronic signs.

I'd just assume it's a function of the gas station owner not wanting to invest in the newer signs.
posted by dmd at 10:34 AM on March 30, 2006

Also there probably is a higher risk of errors in an electronic sign. Some guy up a ladder or using one of those sticky poles is unlikely to set the price at 59 cents rather than 99 cents. Such an error would probably fairly easy on electonic systems.
posted by Mitheral at 10:34 AM on March 30, 2006

>cillit bang said: Because it'd be expensive and the prices don't change often enough?

Heh, heh, where are you from? Here in the US they have been changing at least a few times a week for the last year if not longer. In the distant days of 2 digit prices that was the case.

There probably are local ordinances that restrict the signs at least in cities. I do notice the LED or light signs more in rural areas on interstate highways.
posted by JJ86 at 10:36 AM on March 30, 2006

The installation cost of a manual sign is centainly less than that of an electric system. The maintainance of the electric sign could also be greater, as it constantly draws power and all the electric components will at some point need replacing. The manual system's only upkeep is the time it takes to change the cards and occasionaly buying new cards. Also, if the electric system breaks you've got no price sign for a while, which will cut profits. With a manual system kids may steal the posted cards but you'll always have backups.

That said it makes sense for the highway stations to do electric, because you'd need a cherrypicker to reach the sign.
posted by thrako at 10:37 AM on March 30, 2006

katie writes "I always wonder when they change the prices, because I've never seen anyone doing it."

Many of the signs with moveable numbers are designed to be changed with a long pole [PDF] equipped with a suction cup.
posted by Mitheral at 10:39 AM on March 30, 2006

I worked at a movie theater with an electronic sign which recently broke. The cost to install a new LED sign was upwards of $30,000. I know a huge part of the installation cost was running some sort of cable connection to an office computer.

Regardless, the sign is now analog. You can pay a lot of labor hours before you reach the large, initial investment cost... and that's not even factoring in power consumption.
posted by rockstar at 10:52 AM on March 30, 2006

What I meant to add at the end:

Usually first thing in the morning before the station opens or when the graveyard guy goes off is when they change prices but an unexpected spike in prices will have them changing the price in the middle of the day. So unless you commonly are driving around a 6-6:30AM you won't see the price change.
posted by Mitheral at 10:54 AM on March 30, 2006

Also there probably is a higher risk of errors in an electronic sign.

Indeed. A friend of mine who lives near Houston told me a story about this a couple years ago. Apparently there they have gas stations that are completely unstaffed -- you drive up, stick your credit card into the pump, gas up, and leave. So one day the owner comes into one of his stations, punches in the day's price ($1.499 or something) to update the pumps and the sign, and leaves. Trouble is, he forgot the last digit, or it didn't register, or whatever, and he doesn't notice before accepting the price, with the result that his pumps are primed to sell gas for about fifteen cents a gallon.

The station was of course sucked dry before he came back later that day and noticed his error. It apparently made the local news.
posted by kindall at 11:06 AM on March 30, 2006

Like katie, I also wonder when they change 'em. Here in Silicon Valley, non-manual singage is rare. But the price is changing all the time -- I observe updates which occur during the day, even, but never actually see it happening. I'm wondering when they actually change the price charged -- just before they go out to change the sign, or after they get back to the office, or at the exact moment?

It would be so nice if there was some indication when they were about to raise the price.
posted by Rash at 11:07 AM on March 30, 2006

It's just the particular market pressures that determine when the switch is economical.

An LED sign should be cheaper to power and change than an incandescently or fluorescently lit sign with manual numbers, so operating costs will be cheaper with the LEDs.

On the other hand, the minimum wage and electricity rates in the United States are a lot lower than in Europe, so the tipping point between paying a flunky to change the sign by hand and installing the new sign will be delayed in the United States.
In Canada there has been a sudden burst of LED sign-installation because prices went over $1.000/litre after Hurricane Katrina last year and lots of gas stations needed to upgrade their signs to display a fourth digit anyway.
posted by cardboard at 11:07 AM on March 30, 2006

There is also one other, more devious, reason for sticking with manual signage. The "missing" numeral. I see it a lot around here, especially when gas prices start yet another spike. Suddenly, a couple of the prices are missing the middle numeral. It'll read something like 2._5 You don't know if it's 2.25 or 2.95.
posted by Thorzdad at 11:25 AM on March 30, 2006

Rockstar likely has it more than anyone else.

Think of it this way. The guy on shift at your regular convenience store-mated gas station isn't exactly doing much. And you're already paying him. Might as well put him to work, than take the $25,000-$30,000 hit. School marquees are similarly priced. It's ridiculous.
posted by disillusioned at 11:28 AM on March 30, 2006

My parents used to own a gas station. It was one of my jobs to change the price on the sign. As described above, you use a long pole with a suction cup on the end. Takes about 2 minute to update all the prices on the sign once you've done it a few times.

Of course the last time I changed the prices gas sold for less than a dollar. Might take longer with 3 digits.
posted by Eddie Mars at 11:28 AM on March 30, 2006

With an electronic sign, I'd worry about long-term wear and tear and maintenance as well.
posted by KirkJobSluder at 11:33 AM on March 30, 2006

I expect sometime soon we will see widespread adoption of e-paper signs for gas pricing and other instances where the standard is a simple black on white sign.
posted by beagle at 11:34 AM on March 30, 2006

I know that a lot of towns here in Pennsyvania have regulations about signs and often won't allow animated signs. Also, I find the LED signs pretty hard to read during the day.
posted by octothorpe at 11:40 AM on March 30, 2006

I'm wondering when they actually change the price charged -- just before they go out to change the sign, or after they get back to the office, or at the exact moment? - Rash

I ran a gas station/convience store for 3 years. Our strict policy was that if it was going up, you changed the sign first and the pumps second. If the price was going down, you changed the pumps first and the sign second. This way a customer would never get to the pump and be charged a higher price than was posted. And if they were charged a lower price than was posted they were alwasy happy with that!

It would be so nice if there was some indication when they were about to raise the price. - Rash

Even the employees don't get advanced warning. We would get an automated phone call telling us our new pricing and we had a maximum of 10 minutes - to the second - from that phone call to start charging the new price. If we were delayed in changing the price, the company fined the owner (I think it was $1000).
posted by raedyn at 11:55 AM on March 30, 2006

Also, my station was buit in 2001 with all the most current technolgy. I didn't have to leave the till in order to change the price at the pumps or on the sign. But the electronic sign was not LED, so it did not draw power all day. It displayed numbers on a wheel-style mechanism inside the sign, and when I punched in a new price, some kind of motor rotated each dial in the sign until it displayed the correct price. This was the only time it would draw power other than when it lit up night (just like a physical sign-board).

Everything was automatic in that place - a machine did automatic dip reading to tell us how much gas we had underground, the external lights were all controlled by a light sensor of the roof, etc etc.
posted by raedyn at 12:02 PM on March 30, 2006

We have digital and manual signs here in central Iowa, but also a hybrid. Each digit is a scroll of paper. As the price is changed, the numbers can be seen scrolling to the new value.
posted by kc0dxh at 12:05 PM on March 30, 2006

That's what I was trying to describe, kc0dxh. (except no part of it is *paper*, but that's the idea)
posted by raedyn at 12:07 PM on March 30, 2006

North Texas. Pretty much most of the pump signs (that is, the read-out telling you how much you've pumped) is digital, as the first responder probably thought you meant -- but the vast vast majority of exterior signs (such as that tell passersby the going rate) is physical plastic-swappable-numbers signs. We haven't had many new stations put in (but the newer ones do have the digital/scrolly kind) but the rest of them are still major names. *shrug*

kc0dxh (Or should I say, Dean) -- Just FYI, I'd advise you not to put your ham callsign as any usernames. Unless you want people showing up to 37th for a visit :-)
posted by vanoakenfold at 12:33 PM on March 30, 2006

Gas stations run on a very slim profit margin. Gas stations are typically businesses that hang on for a long time with the same physical assets, even if ownership/franchise changes happen numerous times. Gas stations are typically staffed by people with not enough work to do. That's it.

(other people said it above, but I felt like summarizing five hours later because i'm bored. heh.)
posted by davejay at 5:24 PM on March 30, 2006

I don't think it's a US-only phenomenon. The pumps I've seen in Germany and Canada are at least 50% manual.
posted by oaf at 5:38 PM on March 30, 2006

...by which I mean the signs I've seen.
posted by oaf at 5:38 PM on March 30, 2006