Help me explain this to a white person

April 9, 2021 1:04 PM

I am mixed race and when talking about a conflict with my mother, the white person I was talking to said "have you considered that this might be a cultural issue? I don't know much about (specific culture), but from what I heard (cliché they heard on tv, though not necessarily wrong)."

I want to explain to this generally sensitive, sensible and helpful person, who is also just extremely white, why this is so annoying, and not just as a personal quirk of mine.

Like, I've spent my whole life grappling with the implications of being mixed race and having a mother from this specific culture, don't you think this angle would have occurred to me? And if you already know that you know next to nothing about this culture,why don't you just...not 'splain it to me?

I'm not afraid of being direct or getting a bad reaction, it's more that I would like to put the annoyingness into a broader context than "annoys me personally" and don't know how.

Also, please don't tell me I'm overreacting.

posted by Omnomnom to Human Relations (28 answers total)

something like this happens to me not infrequently.

"This is a thing that is actually a big part of my lived experience, and I'm just going to have to go ahead and ask you to take my word for it" is something I've had to say multiple times.

In your case maybe it's more like "yeah, that's a thing I have much deeper experience with than just a TV treatment."

Or, if they're a good friend and can laugh at themselves, wait a beat and say "WAIT ARE YOU CALLING ME MIXED RACE?"; that should give the conversation enough pause that you get an opening to say, basically, "no shit Sherlock."
posted by fingersandtoes at 1:17 PM on April 9, 2021 [7 favorites]

omg, so not overreacting. Actually, quite kind of you to underreact and to try to communicate past it.

Maybe focus on how the TV cliche is so reductive? So something like "There's a lot more that goes into it than TV Show could ever cover, and it's annoying when a whole culture is reduced that way, it's never as simple as how they talk about it".
posted by Dashy at 1:22 PM on April 9, 2021 [2 favorites]

I think it's fine to say, "I've spent my whole life being aware that it could be cultural, but thanks."
posted by quince at 1:23 PM on April 9, 2021 [18 favorites]

Response by poster: Thank you! I guess I'm looking for words to explain post fact that, hey, this thing you said last week...I know you meant well, but it's not cool because ...
posted by Omnomnom at 1:24 PM on April 9, 2021

I'm white (and straight and cis and a lot of other things that set me up to not see problems by default) and grew up in a culture completely devoid of any concept of wokeness. Once I moved to a more enlightened area and started making friends with people who had done crazy unimaginable things like know actual democrats I had to unlearn a bunch of dumb shit. I wasn't antagonistic, I just didn't know things.

What worked the best for me was the kind and patient friends who very directly said "don't say that. why would you say that? it's dumb to say that." And the few times I was like "wait why is it dumb?" they explained in a few sentences and it was like "oh, well of course, sorry."

It's not hard want to try to be a better person. And it's not hard to believe a friend when they tell you you're doing something stupid. When I encounter other white people who push back on crap like this I don't buy it at all, because I know first hand that it is not hard to at least try to be a better informed white person.

So I don't know what to tell you, you say whatever you want to say, but if your white person responds in any kind of overly defensive way I just really want to underscore for you that they are the asshole, period.
posted by phunniemee at 1:25 PM on April 9, 2021 [16 favorites]

You're not overreacting. It displaces your agency or experience, and those perspectives shouldn't be displaced.

You could mention it suggests displacing your experience (or actively displaces your experience), and is slighting.

Seconding others. The person probably means to be insightful, but their obliviousness pushed in the wrong direction can be hurtful.

An analogy could be like asking you're IT tech if they checked to see if the computer was plugged in, or asking the mechanic if they tried looking at the engine. "Um, yes, that's what we do?" Black people (or mixed, whatever) don't have to be told how to be black. They can just go ahead.
posted by firstdaffodils at 1:28 PM on April 9, 2021 [8 favorites]

I think most well-meaning people would appreciate a friend letting them know that something they said was frustrating or hurtful. Of course that's work for you, and if it's too much work, you can let the person go. But it sounds like you're maybe not at that point with them.

"That thing you said last week is bothering me, because it sounded like you weren't recognizing that [x] is my culture, and I would know it better than any TV show. [I know you meant well, but] it's important to me that you respect my own understanding of my own culture."
posted by praemunire at 1:34 PM on April 9, 2021 [14 favorites]

Is the white person in question a woman? Because I think the context of mansplaining is something many women understand and are on board with these days and would provide a useful analogue to contextualize the issue. This goes a step beyond mansplaining, because it isn't just your expertise they're splaining but your own cultural identity, but it could help position things for them to understand.
posted by jacquilynne at 1:45 PM on April 9, 2021 [7 favorites]

If I were you I would just say something like "Um, this is my mother we're talking about! I've known her my whole life; I hope I know her better than at the level of some cultural stereotype you've heard about on tv." Because to me that's the crux of the issue. This annoying white person is reducing your mother, someone you're intimately acquainted with, to a stereotype, because they can't see past your mother's race.
posted by peacheater at 1:47 PM on April 9, 2021 [8 favorites]

I have had this galling experience and think the way you put it works really well: "[About that thing from last week,] I've spent my whole life grappling with the implications of being mixed race and having a mother from this specific culture, don't you think this angle would have occurred to me? And if you already know that you know next to nothing about this culture, why don't you just...not 'splain it to me?"
posted by mustard seeds at 1:48 PM on April 9, 2021 [1 favorite]

I've gone with a version of "when someone has more experience with a [culture/region/industry/etc], it's wise [or any relevant quality I know that person values] to assume they know more about it than you do." I admit it sounds condescending as hell, but it only really comes up when the other party has spoken in a condescending way first, so I don't mind that.
posted by lampoil at 1:59 PM on April 9, 2021 [3 favorites]

It's harder to do it after the fact, which is why a lot of the suggestions are things to say in the moment, but yeah you certainly aren't overreacting and it's worth bringing back up. I wonder if it would help to not feel like you're bringing it up out of the blue—like maybe wait until next time you want to talk about your mother, and then say something like "hey before we get into this, last time I talked to you about this issue you asked if I'd considered it might be cultural, and I want to make sure it doesn't happen again." After that I think praemunire's script is spot on.
posted by babelfish at 2:18 PM on April 9, 2021 [1 favorite]

Yes it's called 'whitesplaining'.

I'm mixed race too however i'm not so keen to share my business with other people about my personal relationships (IRL) as they tend to not get where I am coming from, be overly patronising, ludicrously judgemental and defensive. It leaves me more hurt and frustrated than I was before I spoke to them. Times this by 100 when it comes to matters of race and gender.

I hear that you want her to understand but personally I have come to accept that not everyone can 'get' every part of us and that this is something people are just not going to be able to understand. Maybe that's condescending and a tad avoidant on my part but it has lifted a weight off my shoulders. It's not my job to educate or hold the responsibility of carrying out that labour. I can't imagine this book will go down so well in this forum but for your sanity, I highly recommend it:

Reni Eddo-Lodge - Why I’m No Longer Talking to White People About Race
posted by ihaveyourfoot at 2:21 PM on April 9, 2021 [6 favorites]

Response by poster: Thank you so much for the book recommendation! I really appreciate it.

The reason why I'm saying something is because I believe she's worth it, and her previous behaviour leads me to believe she won't fuck up the conversation. And also because after a lifetime of not saying anything, I kind of want to try out speaking up. (I guess I can always go back to not saying things if it goes pear shaped.)
posted by Omnomnom at 2:38 PM on April 9, 2021 [9 favorites]

If you're saying this person was well meaning but clueless (I.e. if you think they deserve the benefit of the doubt) they might have been trying to say something like I have heard of similar conflicts related to x, is this also related to x? It sounded like they were trying to introduce you to the concept of culture but that might not have been what they meant. You could just say "yeah, I have considered it of course, I think that came off a little condescending. But this is different because __" or what have you. If they apologize then they'll know better for next time.
posted by bleep at 2:41 PM on April 9, 2021

I don't want to excuse white people who say bone headed things but people just don't think about their choice of words until someone else tells them they should.
posted by bleep at 2:42 PM on April 9, 2021 [2 favorites]

I'd just reply, "Interesting. What lead you to that path of thought? "

Some people are so desperate to join the convo, they don't realize how condescending they sound.
posted by kschang at 2:51 PM on April 9, 2021 [4 favorites]

"When I tell you about a conflict with my mother, I just want you to listen while I vent, and maybe you could offer some sympathy for how I feel. I don't want you to problem-solve my relationship with her."
posted by Former Congressional Representative Lenny Lemming at 3:06 PM on April 9, 2021 [1 favorite]

This is what I'd say if I were you, and this is what would resonate with me if I were your friend:

"Hey pal, if my mom were Marvin the Martian and she wanted to blow up the Earth and I didn't, that just might be a cultural issue like you suggested. But the central theme, the nucleus of this little tiff, this difference of opinion would be that I DON'T want her to BLOW UP the Earth, right? Being Martian doesn't really enter into it."
posted by zaixfeep at 3:14 PM on April 9, 2021

The reason why I'm saying something is because I believe she's worth it, and her previous behaviour leads me to believe she won't fuck up the conversation.

Not that you have to, but I think it might be good to lead with this - "Hey friend, first, please know I'm bringing this up because of how much I value our friendship - when people I don't care about say things that bother me I just internally roll my eyes. But I don't want to do that with you."

I'm coming at this from the perspective of an educator, and generally the research agrees that people learn better they don't feel defensive - signaling to your friend that you care about them before you present your critique will make it more likely that they really hear you and change. In pedagogy, this gets referred to sometimes as "hot moments." To depersonalize it, you might ask your friend "Why do you think white people often feel comfortable explaining the meaning of another person's racial identity to them?"
posted by coffeecat at 3:29 PM on April 9, 2021 [10 favorites]

If you want to try a "Yes, and..." approach (not that you have to) you could agree, that sure it might be a cultural issue, because lots of varied things are "cultural issues" - I am not sure specifically what you are talking about in this instance but that could mean anything to your friend, but also TV IS DUMB AND THE CLICHÉS DO MORE HARM THAN GOOD and it hurt your feelings that your friend was so reductive in a whitesplainy way about complex things in your life.

So your friend might not feel shut out that way, but you can also speak your truth about how it's super aggravating that you felt like she was responding to your lived experience with something she'd seen on TV.

And this is fine whether or not the thing she saw on TV might be "not necessarily wrong" or totally wrong, or even correct. It wasn't cool of her to take something she knew very little about and try to help you, a person who knows quite a lot about that thing, when you're expressing negative feelings about a thing in your life.

Obviously, you do not need to "Yes and..." your friend in any way, but that might be a path that starts on a good foot and allows you to really get into why what she did was problematic
posted by jessamyn at 4:06 PM on April 9, 2021 [1 favorite]

If I were you I would just say something like "Um, this is my mother we're talking about! I've known her my whole life;

Yeah. Not sure why this response (perhaps with some swear words mixed in) isn’t the only answer you are getting.
posted by sideshow at 4:12 PM on April 9, 2021 [2 favorites]

Sigh. Owing to hundreds of years of having power and control over others, white people have a tendency to assume their opinion is always valid and wanted. How about this as a script:

Friend, you know that giving someone advice on a topic on which they’re obviously the expert makes you look dumb, right? It’s also insulting. When I talk to you about problems with my mother, of course I've considered cultural factors; they are an intrinsic part of our relationship. It is our own culture; we live and breathe it. Suggesting that I consider the cultural angle tells me that you don’t recognize my expertise on the topic. Imagine that you’ve worn glasses all your life; you’re on a first-name basis with your optometrist and visit them every year. Meanwhile, I have 20/20 vision. You’re talking to me about a problem with your eyesight and I say “Well, have you considered talking to your optometrist?” Stupid, right? And offensive.
posted by yawper at 4:12 PM on April 9, 2021 [1 favorite]

“Hey, thinking back on our conversation from last week, I wish you hadn’t tried explain my mom’s behavior in cultural terms, because that implied that I know less than you about my own culture and need to have it explained to me. I know you were trying to be helpful to me as I deal with family stuff, but in the future, can you defer to my expertise on cultural matters like this?”
posted by delight at 4:42 PM on April 9, 2021 [3 favorites]

Well meaning white person here. This is what would work for me.

You: Thinking back on our conversation, there was something bothering me and since we are good friends, I'd like to talk about it.
Me (as your friend): OK. [bracing myself but also the intro helps me shift into a listening mode]
You: When you said that you thought my mom's behavior might be due to her culture, it really landed wrong for me. It felt like either you didn't realize that half my family is {that culture} and that is actually part of my culture or you thought you knew my mother better than I do. {or substitute reasons that are closer to your own truth} In either case, it felt really disrespectful. I know we've been good friends and you didn't mean to disrespect me - that's why I wanted to bring it up, so you would know that it landed differently than you intended.
Me (as your friend): a rush of apologies, trying to explain why I didn't mean it
You (interrupting QUICKLY before I put my foot back in my mouth): I know you didn't mean it to be disrespectful, that's why I'm telling you so you don't accidentally do it again. All good?
Me (relieved I'm not in trouble with you) All good.
posted by metahawk at 7:33 PM on April 9, 2021 [5 favorites]

As to how to bring it up after the fact: “something’s been on my mind/been bothering me/isn’t sitting right” and then go into it. It’s normal to feel one way in one moment and then later realize it’s still with you. If this is a friend that will matter!!
posted by kapers at 8:38 PM on April 9, 2021 [3 favorites]

You might also want to explain to the person what you view a more appropriate response from them could have looked like. If you tell them that what they said was insensitive, without any constructive feedback on how to communicate better in the future, then the white person is unlikely to change. They simply will not know how to communicate better.

To me it sounds like this may have been a situation in which you did not expect or want any feedback at all. Perhaps you simply wanted someone to listen and understand your situation. If so, perhaps telling the white person something like this would be constructive:

"I am sure that you had good intent, but I actually did not want feedback from you. I just wanted someone to listen as I thought through the situation. Probably the most helpful thing that you could have said to me was something simple, like 'that sounds like a difficult situation.'"
posted by mortaddams at 7:15 AM on April 10, 2021

"When you said [that thing], it wasn't helpful because it has occurred to me before, having grown up the way I have. What bothered me, though, was you saying that you don't know much about [specific culture] and then going ahead and saying that thing anyway. I understand you were coming from a place of wanting to be helpful; just keep in mind that your wanting to be helpful didn't result in you being helpful that time. What would be more helpful would be for you to just listen and hear what I'm saying. That would mean a lot more to me, if you did that the next time in a situation like that."
posted by obliterati at 9:18 AM on April 11, 2021